1. Fancy yourself a sleuth, evil mastermind, debating pro, and/or just plain love One Punch Man? If so, sign up for Akihabara Lounge's first Mafia game, themed on One Punch Man.

    LINK
  2. Hey you

    Yeah you!


    Have you always wanted to impress Gordon Ramsey with your culinary skills?

    Well you can't...

    But you can impress the NF community by joining the Cooking Contest in the Bento Box!

    And we promise we won't make you cry like him.

Would Tsunade be able to handle a perfect Sage Mode?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by Idiopodivny, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. Idiopodivny Kunoichi Princess

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Reputation:
    ^^^
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  2. 1Person Member

    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Reputation:
    Mastery of chakra control and giant chakra reserves, yup she should be fine with sage mode
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. Idiopodivny Kunoichi Princess

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Reputation:
    Thanks! I wish she really did have one. I wish all the Sannin had one. Just to make them even more legendary
     
  4. 1Person Member

    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Reputation:
    Well she does have a connection to the humid bone forest which is one of the 3 sage locations. Personally I think her forehead seal is a varient of sage mode kinda like oro's white snake power
     
  5. professor83 Was I able to live inside your Heart?

    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes if she learns it under the great katsuyu sage if she exists.
     
  6. Jad |#[Dead Man]#|

    Messages:
    14,556
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    I don't think so. The three great Summons seemed to situate themselves in areas where Sage Mode can be learnt. Katsuya would have told Tsunade about it and she may gave tried and failed.

    Frog Sage mode seems easiest to transform into. Than Snake mode. And the hardest may have been Slug mode.

    I'm just making it all up. She has the requirements to try Sage training.
     
  7. Arthas Anko's Lover

    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    Depends.

    Orochimaru for example certainly has the chakra but he did not have the correct body type so it's possible that Tsunade is in the same boat.

    That being said, I think it's more likely that she just never bothered learning and I am ok with that. In fact I would have a problem if she was seriously portrayed as Oro's and J-man's equal because that means they suck.

    I keep saying this to people who believe Tsunade should be the equal of Orochimaru and Jiraiya but the simple fact is that she spent a decade or even more in a haze of alcohol and gambling.

    If Tsunade is equal to Orochimaru and Jiraiya then that means they suck because they were both active ninjas during the same period who trained and researched but could not become stronger then a person who spent the same time drinking.
     
  8. GuidingThunder Prince of Power !

    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    From a story perspective , no :catdude

    The only 2 Shinobi in the manga with perfect sage mode are Ashura's reincarnations (Naruto and Hashirama) :catdude
     
  9. Arles Celes The Psychologist

    Messages:
    11,940
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Tbh Minato also seemed to have perfect sage mode.

    At least when it comes to using it without showing any frog-traits like it happened with Jiraiya.
     
  10. GuidingThunder Prince of Power !

    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    The man himself said he sucked at Senjutsu , and that he never used it in a battle .
    I wouldn't call that a perfect SM :geg
     
  11. Arles Celes The Psychologist

    Messages:
    11,940
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    His form was perfect.

    He just needed more time time to enter it and supposedly couldn't stay for long in said form.

    Though Naruto in Pain arc seemingly had perfect SM by then and still needed some "not moving" time to enter it. Even during the War he needed time as it happened when Hinata and Neji were dealing with Juubi's wooden spikes while he was entering SM. Also two uses(later in the War arc 3 I think) of FRS and it was over. SM isn't easy to keep for long it seems.

    So Minato's SM was perfect BUT it was not as suited for battle as Hirashin at which Minato excelled. Minato's forte was speed so a jutsu that requires him to stand still is kinda against his style.
     
  12. GuidingThunder Prince of Power !

    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    What the ?? :geg
    Naruto needing time to enter SM is irrelevant to the perfection of his SM , as the time needed to gather NE can be decreased , as we saw in the movie , or Gaiden he can enter it instantly as an adult .
    A perfect SM is a sage mode with no animal traits AND can be used effectively in a battle .Only 2 people in the manga that have SM with BOTH of these traits , Naruto and Hashirama , both are Ashura's reincarnations .
    Minato's SM is so crappy he doesn't even think about using it in a fight. Please don't compare his Senjutsu to Naruto's .
     
  13. Arles Celes The Psychologist

    Messages:
    11,940
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Naruto during the Pain arc at least had to use the clone method by keeping clones to gather NE for him and giving it to him after going *poof*. Otherwise (at that point) he felt like SM was worthless since the drawback was too big.

    Minato seemingly did not come up with a similar idea.

    Besides why would he bother using it in a fight when he got Hirashin that he was the best at?

    Though if you mean PERFECT SM by it not only lacking any frog traits BUT also entering said mode right away then yeah, only Hashi and Naruto post BSM are perfect users.
     
  14. GuidingThunder Prince of Power !

    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    How the hell does this makes his SM worthless ? :catblink
    SM has a time limits , all SM users does , why does Naruto needing to recharge his SM makes his SM any less than perfect ? makes no sense . Please read Fukasku's explanation about SM , the Senjutsu chakra molded in the body is limited in quantity and when used up , you need to mold more , that doesn't mean SM is not perfect , it's just one of SM properties .
    We are dicussing this , when the manga flat out told us the guy mastered his SM perfectly and surpassed Jiraiya and Minato in senjutsu ?
    I dunno , why did he bothered learning it in the 1st place then ?
    The manga disagree with you tho ......
     
  15. Hussain .

    Messages:
    24,606
    Likes Received:
    850
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    The time that X character can stay using SM or not is irrelevant to it being perfect. Perfect SM means there are no animal traits that appears to the user as @Arles Celes explained.

    Minato has a perfect SM, but he can't stay using it for long. As for entering the mode, I honestly don't understand where Kishi was going with "I need too much time to enter it" sounds rubbish to me. Minato was probably the fastest one to enter SM. :catdude

    Example:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/665/13
    Minato used it instantly in this page (keep in mind he just threw the Kunai the panel before, so he just gathered the EC that second)

    Meanwhile, Hashirama took more time to prepare for SM
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/10
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/11
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/621/12

    Even Naruto during the war arc against Obito
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/642/11
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/642/13
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/642/14

    So, don't know what Kishi was thinking with that statement. :mlpshrug



    As for his statement "not using it" is a mistranslation, he said he "rarely" used it.


    ----

    As for the topic. Tsunade according to the Databook has less chakra than Jiraiya and Naruto, so I don't think she can use Sage mode.
     
  16. GuidingThunder Prince of Power !

    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    I wouldn't exactly call a SM that can not be used in a battle " perfect " , that's the whole point of SM , if it's useless in a battle , then it's not perfect , simple as that .
    I mean , Minato himself says he sucked in Senjutsu :zen
    And then there's the fact Fukasku explained how Naruto surpassed Jiraiya and Mianto in terms of SM , clearly implys Minato's SM wasn't perfect .
     
  17. Hussain .

    Messages:
    24,606
    Likes Received:
    850
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Again, the "jutsu" itself IS perfect. His usage of it however, is not.

    For example, let's say we have
    1- Jiraiya (using the frogs on his shoulders)
    2- Minato (Using the frogs on his shoulders)

    Are their SM the same, or different? :hm

    Yes, Naruto surpassed both of them because of different reason
    Naruto is better than Jiraiya because he does not have any frogs features
    He is better than Minato because he can stay longer.

    Anyway, I guess we will agree to disagree. :catwalk
    Don't really care about the subject either way, and it's not important either way either. :catdude
     
  18. Lucaniel non serviam

    Messages:
    9,064
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    tsunade couldnt handle a hot potato let alone perfect sage mode
     
  19. Karyu Endan Smilies = Not serious

    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Pretty sure she couldn't.

    I mean, if Tsunade could enter a perfect Sage Mode, that would place her a clear tier above Jiraiya and Orochimaru, who both attempted it and failed. And portrayal treats them more or less equally.
     
  20. -Ziltoid- the Agenda

    Messages:
    5,353
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Reputation:
    Does Tsunade even have imperfect sage mode, though? Or did her seal count as SM? :catthinks
     
  21. Platypus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,780
    Likes Received:
    699
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Nah. She stores her own chakra (spiritual + physical energies).

    For it to be anything like SM (perfect or not) she'd need to be able to absorb/sense natural energy (& balance those energies) as well.
     
  22. -Ziltoid- the Agenda

    Messages:
    5,353
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Reputation:
    Which she didn't, iirc. So... why is there a thread about perfect sage mode when she didn't even show an imperfect version? :catskully

    Minato lacked the reserves to make it last. Jiraiya needed to fuse with Pa and Ma toad. And Naruto needed to be a jinchuriki to have the necessary chakra reserves. The exception would be a beast like Hashirama. I wonder why people would think that Tsunade would belong in this line. She's strong, but not that strong.
     
  23. Seelentau The All-Knowing

    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    There's no perfect Sage Mode, just saying.
     
  24. GuidingThunder Prince of Power !

    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Wrong .
     
  25. LesExit Empty without rats... & F America

    Messages:
    5,263
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    Tsunade can do anything she dreams of like everyone else, if the plot calls for it :catflowa
     
  26. Godaime Tsunade Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,994
    Likes Received:
    208
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I theorised years ago that Byakugou was a failed attempt at replicating Hashirama's Sage Mode, which gave Tsunade some of its most notable traits: facial markings, instant regeneration and higher chakra reserves. It also appears to be based off of the appearance of Mito's forehead marking. This suggests that Tsunade either failed at perfecting Sage Mode, or never tried to learn it, and instead made a pseudo-Sage Mode replication using her knowledge of seals and medical ninjutsu, and based it off of the abilities of her grandparents.

    The only thing I can think of for as to why Tsunade could't harness Sage Mode is because her natural chakra levels weren't high enough. Its true that Byakugou pumps massive amounts of chakra into her body, but according to the databook her base Stamina is a 4/5, rather than a 5. However, she had the right body for Sage Mode, and its not like 4/5 in raw stamina is a low score either. If Slug Sage Mode did exist, then Tsunade should have been able to get at least as far with it as Jiraiya did.
     
  27. Idiopodivny Kunoichi Princess

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Reputation:
    Maybe she just didn't take the time to learn it since she was so focused on saving chakra in her seal in case she has to heal people idk
     
  28. ℜai 노블레스

    Messages:
    6,955
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Byakugō is her "Sage Mode"

    Orochimaru's Yamata is probably a imperfect SM

    Jiraiya's SM is imperfect too.

    They have been surpassed by their students.

    She probably won't be able to handle Perfect Sage Mode.
     
  29. Seelentau The All-Knowing

    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    ...no imperfect or perfect sage mode... ._.
     
  30. ChosenOne1DO Banned

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Reputation:
    i thouht mito created tthe seal?
     
  31. Seelentau The All-Knowing

    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    no, that's another commonly believed mistake. Mito had no connection to Tsunade's seal.
     
  32. Klue Youth Losing

    Messages:
    58,877
    Likes Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Reputation:
    Can you elaborate? And while you're at it, can you briefly explain the difference (if any) between Sage Mode and Sage Transformation?
     
  33. Hussain .

    Messages:
    24,606
    Likes Received:
    850
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    There is a perfect and imperfect SM obviously.
    However, after what Kishi did with Mitsuki, I am starting to doubt some stuff. Actually, I am starting to doubt them since Kabuto...

    For example, Jiraiya's SM was supposedly imperfect because he gets frogs-like features. However, the same can be said about
    Kabuto and his SM. He is clearly not like neither Naruto nor Hashirama in term of the marks, as Kabuto's skin is vastly different and closer
    to snakes. So, does that mean his SM was not perfect? :hm

    Additionally, Mitsuki's SM seems more advanced than his, but even Mitsuki gets extra features on his physical appearance, so is his not a perfect SM either? :hmm

    Or did Kishi forget all about those things? :catdude
    Which makes Jiraiya's SM just as good as the others? :mlpshrug
     
  34. Seelentau The All-Knowing

    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    Good that you're asking, Klue. Of course I can elaborate:
    There's no in-universe description of what makes a perfect sage perfect, the fandom just assumes a cut between "almost perfect energy balance" and "perfect energy balance", with the latter being called "perfect sage". However, according to Kabuto's words, the actual cut should be between "can use senjutsu chakra" and "can activate sage transformation/mode".
    Fukasaku doesn't call Naruto a "true sage". What he said is "The Sennin markings have sucessfully appeared. Naruto might be a sage that even surpasses Jiraiya." or something along those lines. He makes no distinction between Naruto's and Jiraiya's Sage Modes. What's more, the same eye markings appear during Jiraiya's transformation as well. The only time something like a distinction was made when (and here I get back to Kabuto's words) Kabuto talked about being a perfect sage and Orochimaru not being able to be that.
    Kabuto's words mean something along the lines of "Not even Orochimaru had attained the requirements to be a perfect sage like me/as I am". My initial problem with the sentence was that I misunderstood what このボクのように modifies. This resulted in a translation which had Kabuto claim neither he nor Orochimaru were able to become perfect sages. This is wrong. Kabuto makes a clear distinction between him - a perfect sage - and Orochimaru - not a perfect sage. Now, the second thing is that Kabuto actually implies that Orochimaru is a sage as well, just not a perfect sage. When I translated Kabuto's words for the first time, I stumbled over the meaning of 仕様, which means "method" or "means". I decided to simply translate it as it was without making any sense of it, but it turned out to be somewhat important for a more accurate translation than the official one. In this sentence, 仕様 is used as a suffix with the meaning of "-specification" or "-ready". So Kabuto literally talks about the "perfect-sage-specifications" that not even Orochimaru has.
    It is possible that Kabuto means "perfect specifications to become a sage", but the italicisation of the words "perfect sage" suggests that he indeed means "specifications to become a perfect sage". This would go in line with what he said earlier, about Orochimaru learning to use Senjutsu chakra but not having the right body to use Sage Mode/Transformation.
    All in all, this confirms three things: 1) Kabuto is indeed a perfect sage, 2) Orochimaru is a sage, but not a perfect one 3) the distinction needs to be made between "can use senjutsu chakra" (a sage) and "can activate sage transformation/mode" (a perfect sage).
    The term "perfect sage" didn't exist when the fandom began using it. It was based on a mistranslation of Fukasaku's words, who, as I said above, never made a difference between Jiraiya and Naruto. He both called them sages and the eye markings those of a sage. Kabuto, however, used "perfect sage" to distance himself from Orochimaru, who wasn't able to use sage mode.
    Based on that, a perfect sage is someone who uses sage mode. That doesn't necessarily make Orochimaru an imperfect sage (or a sage at all). There are requirements to attain sage mode and if you meet them, you are a sage. If not, you're not a sage. On a side note, Mitsuki's sage mode wasn't called perfect, but that's another story.

    The difference between Sage Mode and Sage Transformation is not quite clear, but it has to do with Jugo's clan's special bodies (something which the normal Sage Mode doesn't have) and the teachings of the Hakuja Sennin.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  35. ℜai 노블레스

    Messages:
    6,955
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Trophy Points:
    114
    We need @Ganta to clarify this.
     
  36. Seelentau The All-Knowing

    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    I actually just copied all of that from the explanation I gave some months ago on the Naruto wikia.
    Most of the Japanese part is based on a night-long discussion with Japanese people here (the discussion happened in their chat and is long gone, I guess): http://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/39746/how-is-ように-used-linked-in-this-sentence (http://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/39746/how-is-%e3%82%88%e3%81%86%e3%81%ab-used-linked-in-this-sentence)
     
  37. Jackalinthebox Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,455
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    What's this nonsense about Minato having never used SM in a fight before?
    http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-667-page-9.html
     

Share This Page