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Why the Hate for Danzo and not for Raikage?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by principito, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. principito ★★★サイヤ人★★★

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    I've seen many many people saying that Raikage is making the right desition etc etc and they seem to approve it....

    He's acting appearently in the interest of the shinobi with more than questionable methods... I mean... killing a kid and maybe his brother.

    Yet... Danzo is a hated character that resembles that old fashioned Shinobi that Raikage is being right now.... making the tough desitions for a greatter good

    to me... making those kind of "tough" desitions is just taking the easy way instead of trying to find a solutions that involves no sacrifice....
    Its like saying "kill everybody that is poor in a country so we'll have no poverty"

    But anyway.... why the love for the Raikage and the hate for Danzo?
     
  2. Aleph-1 C O L L I D E R

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    Because Danzo was Sasuke's opponent, he gets hate from Sasuke fans. Because Raikage is directly opposing Naruto (and might end up fighting him), he gets hate from Naruto fans, and support from Sasuke fans (you know....the ones who like Sasuke but can't stand Naruto).

    At least, that's how I see it. What it boils down to is personal fan bias.

    I don't really agree with either Danzo or Raikage's reasoning though.
     
  3. Naruto Semi-Retired Super Moderator

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    Danzo allowed his village to be razed and attempted to sabotage Naruto's arrival.

    Now, I hate the Raikage too, but there is a huge difference.
     
  4. dungsi27 dung si diet muoi

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    Its all about the first impression.Danzo was already one of the most hated characters when he showed up,as he seemed to oppose pretty much everyone around him: Sasuke,Tsunade,Naruto,etc.obviously their fans wouldnt like him.

    And its not easy to change the first impression if you ask me.
     
  5. CrazyAries What a spectacular year!

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    The Raikage has always been a controversial character, Tbqh. There is love for the character for various reasons, one being that he has shown early on that he was strong. There has also been visible hate for this character, for various reasons.

    Danzo was also a controversial character but I think that some the hate that he received was due to the perception that he was weak. I was not on NF at the start of Part 2, but I was some time after the Pain Arc. He lifted not a finger against Pain and that may have added to that perception. One reason for him staying out of that fight was apparent (and came from his own mouth), and now we know about his body modifications and fuutons.

    To go back to Pain's invasion: What angered me was the insubordination from Danzo. the fact remained that Naruto was the one with the best chance to defeat Pain, but Danzo was thinking about a power grab. Saving the village should have been of the utmost importance. What was the point of leading a village if there was none to speak of?
     
  6. PureWIN Mr. Prince

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    While they both ultimately make decisions for the greater good, Danzo always had selfish ulterior motives that involved sacrificing others for his own gain. Raikage on the other hand, has nothing to gain from sacrificing Naruto, this is a last resort.

    For example, take the Pain Invasion. If Raikage was in Danzo's position, he would fought Pain with his full strength to stop him. Danzo however decided to hide in order to become the Hokage. If you think about it, Danzo + Tsunade alone should have been able to stop Pain without Naruto's intervention.
     
  7. MYJC Cunning Linguist

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    I don't hate Danzo.
     
  8. cloudsymph I am MELON-LORRRRD!!!!!

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    the difference is that danzou let the village get screwed over. however, i agreed with danzou not wanting naruto to comeback cause he's the one they don't want handed over.

    in both these instances it's the logical decision.
     
  9. jimbob631 God of War Guan Yu

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    I feel like Danzo was the only true ninja in this manga so I never hated him (although him watching his village destroyed when he could have done something was a little iffy).
     
  10. principito ★★★サイヤ人★★★

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    You all seem to share a point... sorry for my lazyness of not answering individually, but here it goes.

    Yes... danzo did nothing to prevent Konoha from neing leveled and stopped Naruto from comming back... even knowing he was the best chance against Pain...

    raikage is stopping Naruto from goinf to war... even though its also a better chance of winning.....

    Both are trying to stop Naruto entering the fight cuz its him who Madara or Pain actually wanted to capture... its exactly the same reason!

    and for the Konoha thing... Danzo trylly believed that the current Hokage was/is weak and that he was a better option for the village.... He made the tough choice of letting that happen so he could "lead" Konoha back into the shinobi way.....

    Not that I agree with that... but both characters' actions and thinking are VERY similar... yet one gets applauded and the other one doesnt
     
  11. Mephissto Active Member

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    I think there is more love for Danzou than for Raikage. At least after Danzou died.
     
  12. Kai R I N N I N G Moderator

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    Danzo was a pretty poorly designed character in terms of his abilities. Aside from Shisui's integration which was acceptable, the rest of him was just an incoherent mess.

    Hard to believe Sandaime's rival became such a scrub whoring for bloodlines.
     
  13. CrazyAries What a spectacular year!

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    There is still a very big difference between the Raikage and Danzo. The Raikage is the leader of the Alliance. Now, it would be similar if he trying to undermine the general if he did not hold the position. It does not matter what Danzo thought about Konoha's leadership, the fact remains that his decision should have been geared more toward ending the threat that Pain posed. It looked like he was more concerned with gaining political power. He would later hypnotize Mifune to be chosen as the head of the Alliance, risking the reputation of Konoha in the process.

    When it comes to Raikage, I think that I can see the point that you are trying to make. His decision could have a negative impact on a global scale. Naruto will be needed to end the threat that Madara poses. Also, there is still at least a hint of self interest when it comes to his threat to kill Naruto. If he is assuming that the war could be won without Naruto, Kumogakure would be the only village left with a jinchuriki.
     
  14. Naruto Semi-Retired Super Moderator

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    No, Danzo sacrificed the village for power. Raikage is doing what he thinks is necessary to prevent the loss of lives.
     
  15. Hero of Shadows Victor over Fate

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    It's basicaly this.The fandom is divided on the same issue and people who take one stance on the Uchiha issue will completely flip on the Jin issue and vice versa.

    What I want o say is that there are rational arguments for both sides on both issues and I won't take them into account because they mostly balance out and talk about the popularity side of these conflicts:

    Danzo ordered to kill everyone who was named Uchiha due to the fact that every Uchiha ninja was planning a coup-d'etat.

    It boils down to: Uchiha Fans(3/5) vs Sasuke Haters(5+/5) Sasuke haters win Danzo is a saint a innocent victim.

    Raikage has ordered the two jin's to hide out avoid the war and not give Madara a chance to capture them thereby denying Naruto the chance to quote "stomp some bitches",upon seeing them completely disregard his orders
    Raikage decides that to save the world these two must die.

    It boils down to:Jin Fans(5+/5)* vs Naruto Haters(2/5) the Jinchurichi Fans win Raikage is a horrible fascist monster**.

    *They get a 5+ because Naruto alone has a Fan ranking of 5+ when we add B's there's not even a question.
    **Expect people to finally remember now that Raikage ordered Hinata kidnapped so she could be experimented on.
     
  16. principito ★★★サイヤ人★★★

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    From Danzo:
    "Everything I've done is for Konoha and for the ninja world. I am the only one who can change the world"

    So i'm not sure he did it for power.

    Of course it requires him to be in a leading position to be able to accomplish change... but I'm not sure it was his ultimate goal. If there has been a character with a hard head regarding prevailing Konoha and the shinobi world as it is its Danzo.

    "At any cost" its just his phylosophy. I think
     
  17. Addy itachi is everywhere!!

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    hate for danzo? :lmao

    he is the most respected characters on this forum.

    i can't remember one anti-danzou thread :hmm
     
  18. Skeith The First Phase.

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    A makes these decisions during time of war to save lives.

    Danzo make these decisions during time of peace to gain power.
     
  19. Neptun &#32

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    yeah, instead the Raikage allows the death of 40.000 ninjas and attempts to prevent Naruto from arriving.
    Huge difference.:oh

    In fact, the whole war arc we have right now resembles the Pain invasion only with changed roles and performances that aren't cut short.
     
  20. KAKASHI10 Active Member

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    ANSWER:

    People been bias because he is
     
  21. Amatérasu’s Son Spring is in the air...and I'm sneezing.

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    That's what it boils down to.
    "The I am the only one who can change the world" even Naruto who has been repeatedly told that he is the one to change the world has never made such a claim. It rings of egomania.

    The truth is that Danzo wanted to get Tsunade out of the way for a power grab. There is no excuse for sacrificing the village to get her out of the way, he was directly complicit. If he was so concerned then he could've easily voiced his concerns to the Daimyo and then used Shisui's eye to ensure the Daimyo concurred. There was no reason to let the village be destroyed. Further he didn't send his troops to back Naruto's play when he did get back. If he was really that concerned with the Kyubi being captured then ROOT should've intervened not Hinata.

    The fact is that Danzo doesn't give a damn about the people on his side as long as HE is victorious. And that makes him a piss poor leader. Now I respect him and I believe on some level he did care. Just not the level that was in charge of most of his decisions. He undermined and subverted the leadership of Konoha and the Fire Country at will. He participated in the foundation of no less than three "villains" in this story, Pain, Itachi, and Sasuke. So not only do I believe that he was wrong, but that his viewpoint was directly detrimental to Konoha. And his paranoia even worked against him when he screwed up at the Kage Summit. And he doesn't even acknowledge that his position hurt his own village.

    Raikage's primary problem is that he is rash, ill-tempered, war hawk who thinks he knows it all. At least he's straight up about it though. He thinks directly in a straight line and doesn't think things through or wait for all the information. As opposed to Kakashi's teachings he doesn't see beneath the underneath.
     
  22. Raidoton Active Member

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    Like the Aburame clan vs. Konan, Inuzuka vs. Pain, Ibiki vs. Pain... :lmao

    @Topic
    I see a lot of hate for the Raikage. In the end, I like both of them :zaru
     
  23. Skeith The First Phase.

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    Let not forget Danzo working with Hanzo and Orochimaru.
     
  24. CrazyAries What a spectacular year!

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    Amat?rasu?s Son handled it brilliantly. I will add this:

    Any way you slice it, Danzo was making a grab for power. He worked with Hanzo to (by Nagato's words) usurp the power of Sandaime Hokage. He continued the Foundation despite being told to disband the subsection of ANBU. Along the line, he made a number of enemies and embarassed Konohagakure at the summit. If his first concern was the welfare of his village, he was better off remaining in the shadows.

    My observations about Danzo also concern his possible view of his subordinates. In the end, he expected subordinates to be faithful to their leader, but there was next to nothing about a leader's responsibility to his followers. Of course, Danzo was a patriot, but he was misguided and extreme. His policies did have a detrimental effect on the village to to point of being counterproductive. He called those who would die in the onslaught of Pain's attack "necessary sacrifices". This may be very similar to the Raikage's stance, but the latter is not withholding the services of his forces (and by this I mean Kumo nin)at large. Also, we had the flashback with E and Darui to show us how much the Raikage values his subordinates.
     
  25. SaVaGe609 Only Sai Fan

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    "I Officially Hate the Raikage" thread?

    I personally like them both. A is kind of like a frame of referance that shows that Danzo wasn't that far off from being what could be considered a good kage. They're both extremests.
     
  26. tnorbo Active Member

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    raikage and danzou both beileve that naruto shouldn't participate in a fight, which if he loses means the entire worlds screwed. that is their only similarity. danzou did so much dirt to so many people all just for personal power. It's not to hard to realize why he was hated.
     
  27. Helios 征服王

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    Naruto's actions prove the same thing constantly and in fact in a more vivid way.Just look at him in this war.

    Danzo believed that Tsunade was an unworthy Hokage and because of this she was a burden to the leaf.He despised Hiruzen's teachings that, allowed Orochimaru to roam free something that put the village in grave danger,that armed Nagato and he feared that something similar would happen with Tsunade and Sasuke.Exactly because of this his first decision as a Hokage candidate was to order the assassination of Uchiha Sasuke who is still a threat to Konoha. Danzo was not aiming to overthrow a Hokage but to onverthrow an unworthy Hokage.

    He was never willing to sacrifice the village because it was the mean for him to achieve what he wanted.Tsunade would minimize the casaulties he said,and this is what happened.

    I dont get what you are saying.Danzo likes to kill people instead of using them as tools?Irrational.If he could he would have used the eye on the Daimyo before.


    There is no Kage who cares about his people.Hiruzen brought Kushina to host the Kyuubi and become Konoha's weapon.We have forgotten Naruto's reactions to this have we?He kept the truth about the Uchiha massacre hidden and he allowed Itachi's mission to proceed.

    You personify the ninja system in Danzo.The logical mistake is that this neglects the reality that Danzo is a creation of the ninja system.Therefore the object of the critcism should change accordingly.

    Itachi remained loyal.This is evident considering his words to Naruto that in the end a time will come when each and every one of us will have to make tough choices.Pain and Sasuke were corrupted by Tobi.

    Raikage revealed his true nature.I pitty Darui who thought that he meant something to him,that he was more than just a tool carrying the heritage of the technique entrusted to him.Raikages behaviour in the Summit towards Danzo was hypocritic to say the least.
     
  28. Seraphiel Meem Magician

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    A man who shared the same ideals as him and that he partnered with in times of war, I see nothing wrong with it.
     
  29. Zen-aku The Bad Guy

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    Danzo was a Scheming murdering backstabbing bastard, A isn't

    A might say he'll kill bee if he has to but his past actions show that this is a lie he is telling him self
     
  30. BroKage Active Member

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    Danzo's antics always benefited himself as well as the village; be it politically or strength-wise. A's been willing to sacrifice his arm and his brother.

    Danzo let his village get thrashed just to increase his chances of becoming Hokage. No such behavior is known of A.

    Danzo's attempted to rule by force (mind control, was possibly planning to use the Kyuubi). A hasn't.

    Danzo made backdoor deals with villains instead of trying his best to off them. A flies into a rage at the mere idea of negotiating with Akatsuki and tries to kill them on sight.

    Danzo had grand ambitions of uniting the ninja world. A is just protecting it.

    A hasn't ordered any massacres.

    I'm a Danzo fanboy but he's a villain. Nowhere near as bad as Akatsuki or Otogakure, but still.
     
  31. SenSensei 무신

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    At first, from the way Danzou was being portrayed, I didn't even know that his intentions were truly good. He came across as a shady and a twisted individual. But even then, while I didn't agree with his actions, as a character overall, he was intriguing nevertheless, I didn't hate his character.

    And with the Raikage, even after he expressed what he can do to win this war, it doesn't take anything away from him, at least for me.

    As long as a character has class, whether he is good or a villain, it means jack shit. :awesome
     
  32. Uzamaki Nagato Agent of Justice

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    For a Danzo fan, you speak the truth. +Reps
     
  33. Skeith The First Phase.

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    Was leaf partnered with Hanzo during that war?

    And it was stated that Danzo team up with Hanzo to get rid of them in return for Hanzo helping Danzo take over the leaf and become Hokage.


    And also the fact Danzo gave Orochimaru info on all of leaf's Anbu. How was that for the village?
     
  34. BroKage Active Member

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    It's also an issue of:

    Strength - A appears strong and Danzo appears weak.
    Courage - A is eager to fight and Danzo avoids battle.

    At the end Danzo was strong and willing to fight Sasuke and Madara at once, but it came a bit late. The impression that some people had for most of Danzo's existence in the manga was that he was a coward that's grown ill and weak.

    Indeed. I don't think there was anything wrong with Danzo keeping Naruto from being summoned. That gave him the time needed to complete Sage Mode.

    His delusions don't justify letting innocent people die, though. Tsunade's lenience, unwillingness to listen to reason, loudmouthedness, and weakness made her a bad Hokage, yes. But Danzo's dirty deeds tarnished his credibility, and he risked getting the Leaf in big trouble by using mind control at the Summit.
     
  35. principito ★★★サイヤ人★★★

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    This guy landed what i wanted to say but with more structure hehe

    Thanx mate.
     
  36. Dolohov27 Incinerated

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    Agreed with this. :)


    Edit: Plus the Raikage just comes off as a retard sometimes ( attacking Sasuke's Amaterasu) and just all round hypocritical Douchebag.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  37. erivar Member

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    I don't love the Raikage but i don't hate the dude either. I think he is too pragmatic but that isn't a sin. He is how he is for a reason and makes sense even though i think he isn't always right.

    The difference between him and Danzou that determines why i hate Danzou but like the Raikage as much as one can is one thing that i deem important:

    1. Raikage actually cares about his people versus Danzou who doesn't and mistusts everybody and everything.

    Just that one thing makes all the difference to me regardless of everything else. Danzou showed no action or thought that gave away the idea that he cared about the actual people of Konoha that he professed to love and does all his misdeeds for.

    Pain attacked Konoha and what does Danzou do? Mr.-wants-to-be-Hokage?

    He runs away and hides while Pain lays waste to the people and village. That is not the actions of a true leader and someone to like on any level. His justification and some a lot of fans spew is that he wanted Tsunade to fail so that he can become Hokage. Wow, such a good reason to abandon your village when they need you the most. A potential leader material right there.:notrust
    He only cared about being in charge and leading with a militaristic point of view and about gaining more power in the military and mistrusting other nations and entities and choosing isolation versus working towards peace. He would never trust in the alliance between the Leaf and the Sand village. He would always think that they would betray him and attack. He would never had trusted that Konoha would do something about Sasuke being a missing nin the way the Raikage did when he sent his people to Konoha like that. Danzou would do it only as a cover to sneak into Kumo and attack them with the mentality of "he who attacks first wins."

    Danzou doesn't think of the people in the way the 3rd did about the people or Tsunade. It was all about him and his extreme belief and wanting to be right. He didn't like the teachings of the 3rd and blamed it and Tsunade for Pain attacking the village even though he had the biggest hand in the creation of Pain. Nope.

    The Raikage cares about his villagers and ninja's. He wouldn't want them to be mindless soldiers who forget who they are and mistrust them to the point that he puts a seal on them. Without trust and a heap of paranoia, one can only go so far in life.

    So yeah, i may not care for the Raikage and his kill his brother and Naruto plan because they're tools, but compared to Danzou, he looks way more favourable. In my eyes.
     
  38. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Really if Danzo wanted to Replace Tsunade. Would not the best way to do it be making himself the hero then mind controlling the daiymo when they go to talk about funding into replacing tsunade?
     
  39. tnorbo Active Member

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    if he tried to play hero against pain he would have ended up dead. he wasn't gonna sacrafice himself for the village.
     
  40. BroKage Active Member

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    Danzo couldn't reveal Sharingarm and Hashirama's face to the Leaf village, and without them Pain would've shitstomped him.

    Besides, if Tsunade didn't get hurt there wouldn't have been talk about replacing her anyway.
     
  41. Butō Rengoob Honorary Pantaloni Rossi

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    I've always liked Danzo personally. He's what a ninja should be.
     
  42. BroKage Active Member

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    I think that's one of the dark sides of Danzo's character (and politicians in general).

    X is incredibly disingenuous.

    He attacks Jiraiya's role in Pain destroying Konoha, despite the fact that Danzo himself facilitated it by holding back Root (and partially inspired it by aiding Hanzo).

    He attacks Hiruzen's lenience toward Orochimaru, despite the fact that he himself negotiated with the man for power and waited years to make an attempt on his life.

    Danzo generally blames the Leaf village for allowing Sasuke to leave Konoha, despite the fact that his own massacre is what inspired Sasuke's decision.

    The man died without ever making an acknowledgement of the hypocrisy. A doesn't put this type of disgusting spin on events.
     
  43. Summers look at my sig

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    A lot of people have that view, but what did Danzo achieve? he became Hokage for day before being chased away for his subversive actions. He created root but it was disbanded so had to hide. And his dead.
     
  44. BroKage Active Member

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    The fact that he delayed Tsunade's request gave Naruto the time to complete Sage Mode which led to Pain's defeat.

    By taking Shisui's eye for himself he prevented Madara from using it.
     
  45. Gunners .

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    Why are people speaking as though Danzou and A are two peas in a pod. Side stepping the issue of whether not the masses hate the characters. Danzou achieved his goals through deception, only a select few know about the Uchiha clan's annihilation, all the people who knew about him forming an agreement with Hanzo are dead ( another behind the scene dealing). No one knew about him murdering the messenger frog to delay Naruto's arrival.

    A has done everything head on for all to see.
     
  46. Ghost of Madara Member

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    People also neglect to mention Danzou had dealings with not only Orochimaru, but Madara as well. He helped Madara in the past, meaning that he knew the Uchiha weren't the ones behind the Kyuubi attack, making the reasons given for their ostracization disingenuous, and their genocide a monstrous unnecessary crime.

    Danzou was a hypocrite, a coward, and a traitor who was only interested in attaining more power for himself to the detriment of others, and it was his actions which led to the creation of Pain, Taka Sasuke, and the death of Jiraiya. He is not worthy of respect, but contempt. Raikage is none of these. Therein lies the difference.
     
  47. BroKage Active Member

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    Not necessarily. Danzo might've only found out about Madara after the Uchihas began planning the coup. By then there was nothing he could do.

    He certainly should've told the Leaf about Madara, though.

    He did really believe that the village needed him for its prosperity. But his delusions don't justify any of his actions.
     
  48. SaVaGe609 Only Sai Fan

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    He was interested in attaining more power for the village, and he did so in any way he deemed fit. He genuinely believed that him holding the most power in the village was the best way to do so. But if Kishi wanted Danzo to be remembered as a selfish coward, he wouldn't have given him the eulogy during/after his death.

    He was a consequentalist, who's actions may not haev been things to reward, but the end result he always had in mind was just. For the leaf that is.
     
  49. Skeith The First Phase.

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    He did.

    Danzo had a flashback of when he was young and lost (What he believe was his) chance to Hokage was due to him being afraid.

    In fact, on his deathbed, he pretty much said that he did all this cause his rival/friend got the title instead of him.
     
  50. Namikaze-Minato Hokage Sage

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    because Raikage speaks his mind on the spot.
    Since the beginning, Danzo has been secretive and mothafuckin shaaaady. And he was never in charge trying to call the shots. Raikage is actually in charge. Danzo was just sketchy in all his actions. trying to over run the current konohas ethics and ideals with his own.
     

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