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Why kill the Vinsmokes?

Discussion in 'Ohara Library' started by Louis-954, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. Louis-954 http://www.kolektakon.com/

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    Judge and his children are all capable combatants in their own right, and Judge in particular is a brilliant scientist who has worked alongside Vegapunk. It doesn't make sense to not keep them around as powerful allies to assist her in becoming pirate king and also realizing her dream of gigantifying her children and crewmates. Dumb bitch could have both Caesar AND Judge working towards realizing her ambitions and instead she's like to (try to) kill them both.

    The massacre just feels like a total waste of resources and combat power that does her more harm than good. I thought she was more pragmatic than this.
     
  2. Brook Well-Known Member

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    Big Mom is a psychopath so she wants to do it the most fun way by killing them all despite the Vinsmokes not posing any treat to BM.
     
  3. Muah HADE BARA BOGE PYA

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    Yea her plan is very shotty. But shes just after the technology which makes sense I guess. I mean at some point BM stop carrying about fighters under Zoros level who arent deadly loyal.
     
  4. Pocalypse Return of the God

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    Because the Vinsmokes don't give a shit about Big Mom trying to become PK, they want to rule North Blue using their own power and Big Mom's power. If Big Mom takes over Germa herself and the science, the army, she has full control and only has to focus on becoming PK and not actually spend her forces wasting time on helping the Vinsmokes rule over North Blue again. She gives 0 shits about that.
     
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  5. Marcelle.B Ban Emperor Moderator

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    Remember, CC has her head twisted that he can accomplish the task of making giants so she wouldn't need anyone else. To her he could accomplish a lot including replicate the vinsmoke weapons as well so it wouldn't be a loss if they die lol and she just doesn't like them so there's that.
     
  6. Louis-954 http://www.kolektakon.com/

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    She takes over the technology/science and then what, though? Lol

    She's not going to get the same utility out of it that she would if she kept them around. They could also improve upon the tech and invent new tech which is something her crew clearly isn't capable of on its own.
     
  7. Pocalypse Return of the God

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    Use the technology and science to become PK? Duh.

    Listen, these two parties have different motives:

    > Judge wants Big Mom's powers to rule NB
    > Big Mom wants Judge's powers to become PK

    If they become buddy buddy BM will be forced to help them rule NB while the Vinsmokes will be forced to help BM become PK and you think either side wants to help each other's interests? They only care for their self interests. So if Big Mom takes them out she gains control over their army and pretty much everything once Pudding marries Sanji.
     
  8. Vengarl For a thousand years I've slumbered

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    X
     
  9. Louis-954 http://www.kolektakon.com/

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    Conquering North Blue for Big Mom would be child's play, lol. Ain't nobody worth a damn out there.
     
  10. Samehadaman Well-Known Member

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    That blue is pretty much a quarter of World Government territory... Nobody strong is headquartered there, but Marines and Cipher Pol are going to fight if a Yonko invades what is close to 25% of their land.
    While that is happening, the rival Yonko and a bunch of rising pirates are breathing down her New World territory. Kaido is about to launch a war, Urouge took out the 4th Commander, Luffy took out the third. It's not like she can spread out her forces and she can't be everywhere.

    If Big Mom herself goes fight for the Blue, Cake Island will have trouble with invaders. If she sends a Sweet Commander he could get the Jack vs Marine convoy treatment while Cake Island gets nerfed.
     
  11. Pocalypse Return of the God

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    :skully
     
  12. Amatérasu’s Son Redbeard

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    Isn't North Blue the strongest outside the Grand Line?

    Anyway, Big Mom seems to think the Vinsmokes are straight up week, which makes sense from a Yonko's perspective. What she wants is the ability to mass produce a completely disposable army, which is a logical thing for a woman who mass produced her own family the hard way and likely doesn't want to just throw away her actual kids.

    The Germa66, the mythical evil army, which Big Mom is casually laughing at. She may actually keep Jajji and family around if she actually respected them, but she does NOT. Not even a little. While we see them as reasonable strong fighters, the fact of the matter is, she doesn't see them as worth the time or the risk. So she feels she can easily kill the Germa and take the tech that she actually cares about. Why? Because she's a pirate. Why pay for what you can kill for?

    :lmao
     
  13. White Hawk Charismatic Awesome

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    She wants them for herself.She wont be rulling them with the Vinsmokes alive
     
  14. Gyro Go! Go! Zeppeli Moderator

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    She most likely won't be rulling them with the Vinsmokes dead either since there's probably some sort of failsafe order 66 type shit in them. Killing them without learning the basics of their technology is stupid
     
  15. TheOmega Real Nigga

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    Ppl must not read the damn manga. The Germa are programmed with a certain obedience to the Vinsmoke with Judge on top and his sons next in line. Just like the kids have to listen to Judge, the Germa have to obey the Vinsmokes. No Vinsmokes, no problem
     
  16. White Wolf Butcher of Blaviken

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    I'm sure she feels that with Caesar in her employment as long as she gets rid of them even she can't control the current Germa soldiers she'll be able to replicate the research. Though that's putting a lot of faith in Caesar.

    Perhaps another ability of her DF would be eliminate any blockades within the soul (such as scientific tampering) to make them obey her?
     
  17. Gyro Go! Go! Zeppeli Moderator

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    Yeah but that's my problem, for a plan that's so important to her and that shouldn't go wrong under any circumstances she's incredibly sloppy in the execution and planning

    If it's hardcoded into the brain I doubt the soul would make a difference :catthinks
     
  18. White Wolf Butcher of Blaviken

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    Yeah maybe.. I'm thinking kinda like a cross between Moria / Doflamingo, to basically control/manipulate them via the soul. It's another method of making them do what she wants even if she doesn't get the research itself.
     
  19. San Juan Wolf They're even better when you're dead

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    Does she even like anyone ? She genuinely seems to be a bit of a sociopath to me, who doesn't even give two shits over killing her own children.
     
  20. Marcelle.B Ban Emperor Moderator

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    Well she has to like her husbands...at least for a night :catsupine
     
  21. Mariko Just wanna have fun

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    Basically this.
     
  22. Barragan_Nnoitra emperor

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    She just needs the clones for infinite souls.
     
  23. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    I could say something but it would be so remarkably sexist i would probably get a ban.
     
  24. Gyro Go! Go! Zeppeli Moderator

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    I'd laugh heartily but I'd get demodded
     
  25. San Juan Wolf They're even better when you're dead

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    You know I didn't mean it like that. And bitch is willing to just let Pound get killed cause she found someone better.

    Actually makes me wonder if Pound is someone actually important.
     
  26. Marcelle.B Ban Emperor Moderator

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    I'd hesitantly be the one responsible for both your downfalls.

    I got what you meant. I don't think he's very important to the overall plot, he's just some guy Big Mum smashed lol like if he's a king or something he surely doesn't act like it because he was chilling in a forest with no care in the world.
     
  27. Superstars Well-Known Member

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    It's just oda trying to make mom look villainous by doing away with them once she marries in to rule the country for it's tech. However she will be killing the scientist who is mostly responsible for that tech. It's just bad and forced writing. It's shounen though, shouldn't nitpick the small details.
     
  28. Jin22 Well-Known Member

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    All the kids she has, her smashing is genuine...gives me the chills.
     
  29. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    She's obviously jelly of them, when her soldiers started fawning over them you can tell that BM was annoyed/jelly.

    I do not doubt that it would be harder to control Judge and co, and they were being cautious of BM. Although they weren't cunning enough, and only Reiju went snooping around.
    Technically she doesn't need them, but rather their clonable army and tech, so she could very well get rid of them and take it by force.Especially since it would be harder to control the Vinsmokes.
     
  30. San Juan Wolf They're even better when you're dead

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    Well the chapter did specify Big Mom doesn't let anyone go so he'd have no way to leave anyway.

    Just thinking there must be a reason she chose this guy at some point.
     
  31. giantbiceps Oi! Bring me Ogiko

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    Forced drama. X
     
  32. Nidai Kitetsu Active Member

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    Very weak writing from Oda.

    Who would want to have an alliance with Big Mom after this?

    It seems Oda is trying to hard to create a similar situation like the red wedding. This is not the first questionable or weak writing from Oda in this arc though. It seems like he doesnt know or didnt properly plan what to do with Big Mom and Sanji.
     
  33. Vengarl For a thousand years I've slumbered

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    If BM gets her hands on Germa tech then she'll gain enough power where she doesn't need trust but rather uses fear and a wider umbrella of influence to establish alliances, if she even needs to establish more. She also understands how untrusting Germa is as well and there's more benefit to eliminate them then steal the Germa rather than keep a shaky alliance. Beside that most people consider Germa to be a myth anyway so she can also deny that. Also like Reiju said, they deserve to be wiped out and nobody would really protest that betrayal.

    Its not like people really trust her to begin with anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  34. midace Member

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    Killing the groom's family doesn't make any sense at all from P.R. stand point. I mean who would want to join forces with her through political marriage in the future if this is what could be your return...
     
  35. Mariko Just wanna have fun

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    For the fun, no more. She's just a psychopath.

    Why would she tell the world she killed dem to begin with?
     
  36. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    Not really. If she got ahold of Germa tech, she would have an army of fodder which anyone half-decent could wipe out in a few moments. Her power wouldn't really increase at all in the greater scope of things.
     
  37. White Wolf Butcher of Blaviken

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    Not necessarily, enough fodder can capture even a giant, when normal people stand no chance.
    If their genetic tampering makes them impervious to haki (conqueror's mainly), they'd be a pretty good vanguard, send thousands of them crashing up against a castle wall or whatever they're attacking at the time and as they die one after the other the main force comes at the end to clean up.

    I mean think of it like Fishman island arc, even if it was the mid-weak trio they were pretty worried about dealing with 100k enemies, even if they're fodder.
     
  38. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sure. They have some utility, but not at all to the degree Big Mom seem to think. Certainly not to the degree that it's worth sacrificing any future possibility of cooperation with other organisations to acquire them. Acquiring one M3 level fighter would be far preferable, and even then, her power compared to the other Yonkou wouldn't change enough for it to be noticeable.
     
  39. White Wolf Butcher of Blaviken

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    Of course, but both BM and the Vinsmokes are frankly idiotic at this point, as we've seen.
     
  40. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    People are making shit up but I think it's a matter of morality, Big Mom views them as evil and doesn't want them in her peaceful society world order.
     
  41. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    Honestly I think she's just desperate since the guy who didn't delve into technology and stuff but was already yonkou leveled (kaidou) has really buffed up his resources for stuff like weapons of mass destruction, super powerful cannonballs, artificial devil fruits, etc etc
     
  42. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    You say that but look how effective just one was in the fight against Sanji.
     
  43. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    Well, that was against Mr. Vinsmoke "I will save my evil family just so that they can go back to killing innocents because I'm such a good guy" Sanji. Against anyone who wouldn't mind killing evil enemy goons, they would be much less effective.

    Sure, she might be desperate, but it's still an incredibly stupid move. From what we've seen so far, she's certainly in the running for most incompetent arc boss ever.
     
  44. shit it's what you do

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    Vinsmokes will demand she help conquer NB which will split her resources and likely put her in an immediate conflict with the WG, and they'll have direct control of their clone technology instead of her so she'll be at their mercy to utilize it

    On the other hand you waste a smart guy and three guys on par with her more powerful children, I can see why she'd do it

    Also she's probably gonna kidnap judge and still utilize his genius by force instead of diplomacy
     
  45. PwnGoatVSPandaman Better Than Grimm

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    Honestly I expect them to be stronger as individuals than they are as meat shield, like I feel like when they end up following reiju or sanji, that they will prove that they are actually quite decent for an army and that the vinsmoke using them like that is just cuz they are replaceable.

    Also the fact is that yes it shocked him, over a single guy can get in the way of an attack and thus leave them up for a surprise or free shot, or they can put pressure on an enemy, or just overwhelm regular people with numbers.
     
  46. Gunners .

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    If the clone army will play a central role in her army over the years to come, it is probable that she wants to be in complete control of it.

    Through Jinbei and (probably) Capone, we're seeing the damage that can be caused by one rogue part of her force that would be easier to sever. It's likely that the clones wouldn't act as one separate group but as aids to existing ones; it's harder to contain if something goes wrong and if the army grows beyond her expectations she runs the risk of losing her position.
     
  47. Barragan_Nnoitra emperor

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