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Why did Madara awaken Rinnengan decades after having Hashi's DNA?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by t0xeus, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. t0xeus hi it's me t0x

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    I know this is a question that goes in cycles but I couldn't find anything on google and cba to think of different keywords for searching now, so I am rather gonna ask.

    I am not sure if this was ever clearly answered in manga/databook or in interview of Kishimoto, but I think I once read something where it was explained pretty well. Now I am not sure if it was just a well-thought theory or an actual official explanation, but I am sure I will get what I want here.

    So can I get the reasoning for the question in title? I feel like it's something obvious but I can't recall the detail right now.
     
  2. GuidingThunder Follow your own path & Regret nothing

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    I think i'll summon @Klue here so he can teach a lesson about the Rinnegan .
    @Klue : Kutchyose no Jutsu !!
     
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  3. Hussain .

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    Kishi does not explain shit. :meh
    we just know he activated it too late. :/
     
  4. t0xeus hi it's me t0x

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    I was afraid that Kishi didn't bother giving an explanation or at least a hint why it could be... That sucks.
     
  5. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    It was never explained.

    I think I suggested before that it could have been due to Madara grafting Hashirama's flesh to his wound in a manner that could be considered much cruder than the methods Orochimaru and Kabuto employed, thus taking much longer for Asura's chakra to truly mend with Indra's... We'll never know for sure though.

    [EDIT] - Before the prerequisites of the Rinnegan were confirmed, I was pretty confident that Senjutsu would serve as one of the catalysts to the Rinnegan's awakening, thus explaining why Madara had to reach a state of near-death before it finally happened... I liked that better. :/
     
  6. Klue Youth Losing

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    Everything about this post I love.
     
  7. icemaster143 Can out run a

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    I had that theory as well until recently.

    Now I think the answer is chakra synchronization/fusing.

    I think the real key to the answer is in how Naruto's power developed and to a lesser extent Sasukes CS as well.

    Check out what Orochimaru says about Naruto when they first meet.
    http://www.[Blocked Domain]/naruto/49/8

    Naruto and karuma's chakra's had begun to fuse after 12 years. Karuma makes note of Naruto's ability to handle his chakra the way he does to his uzamaki blood and his years of being a jinchuriki.
    http://www.[Blocked Domain]/naruto/617/7

    one of the big themes we see in the manga is that whenever you have multiple chakra's placed into the same body they begin to fight for dominance and that's if the bodies are compatible in the first place. Naruto and Karuma, Danzou and Hashirama's DNA, Sasuke and the CS, The third hokage when he sealed the first and Second, Kabuto and Orochimaru's power.

    Chakra doesn't naturally bond easily and when it does begin to fuse the host body must first be compatible or it leads to death.

    It took decades but Hashirama and Madara's chakra's finally fused allowing for the evolution of the rinnengan.


    on a side note I believe the Sage was able to give Naruto and Sasuke their final powers using a combination of the chakra sharing Naruto used(Molding chakra for each recipient) and the trick Naruto and Minato used to teleport the alliance.
    http://www.[Blocked Domain]/naruto/644/16
    If you think of the transmigrant chakra as extensions of the sages then it becomes pretty clear how he could powerup Naruto and Sasuke the way he did.
     
  8. t0xeus hi it's me t0x

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    Oh yeah! That's the theory or explanation I was looking for and which I liked.

    It was @Munboy Dracule O'Brian from who I read it first I think. It was something like that Madara had to wait for old age because that's where you are getting close to 'death' and so are full with Natural Energy or something. It made a lot of sense.
     
  9. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    I still believe you can make a case for it.

    EMS = Indra's chakra reaching its peak to the point where you can use his signature jutsu, PS.
    SM/body power = Asura's chakra reaching its peak since SM is a way to increase body power.

    It would explain why Madara had such perfect control over SM and why the Hashi cells in him were the ones that responded to him taking Hashirama's chakra even to the point where they, not Madara, took the SM markings.

    IMO it makes sense, Indra and Asura's chakra at their peak would result in Hagoromo's chakra. Though, you can say anything body related can tap into that inner power e.g. why Naruto's BM looked a lot different to Minato's BM (Naruto got a new cloak and all) and possibly why his Juubi/SPSM state looked different to Madara and Obito's. Of course, the closest Madara could get to tap into that is SM.

    Concrete? Probably not since anything less than a manga confirmation is just speculation. I'd say this is quite solid though, especially since Sasuke obtained the Rinnegan from a Sage Kabuto pumping Hashirama's cells into him while Sasuke had Hashirama's chakra and Juugo's flesh from the Killer Bee mission i.e. you could link the body (Hashi cells + SM/body power) and EMS to his Rinnegan awakening.

    Even if you want to say Hagoromo gave him the power, Hagoromo still has all three of those things: natural energy, body power and eye power.
     
  10. theBeginning Well-Known Member

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    Hashirama and Madara chakra were a very diluted versions of Ashura and Indras, I think that's the reason.

    This also goes with how Sasuke got the Rinnegan right after getting the original chakra, aka Rikudo chakra directly.
     
  11. Rai 노블레스

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    You need near death experience; just like it happened with Sasuke.

    Sasuke got his Rinnegan by mixing Indra and Ashura's chakra; Nothing to do with Hagoromo

    :fedoge
     
  12. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    Where were you when I was facing a shitstorm for saying just that. :lbj
     
  13. GuidingThunder Follow your own path & Regret nothing

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    :facepalm
     
  14. Rai 노블레스

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    and Naruto got SPSM because of 9 Bijuu's chakra; nothing to do with Hagoromo

    :fedoge
     
  15. Ganta Not the Ganta from Narutobase. Stop Hollering PMs.

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    Kids' mistake in speculating: thinking that Kabuto hosed Sasuke to heal with Hashirama's cells, it's instead doing work on Kabuto's mojo.



    get yo' ass back here for sentencing :pek
    That's not the tale.

    could and did.
     
  16. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    :letgo
     
  17. Karyu Endan Smilies = Not serious

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    It could still be argued death is a requirement for the Rinnegan. Madara and Sasuke both had Asura's chakra in them and didn't awaken Rinnegan until they "died".

    I'm wondering why Naruto's chakra is never discussed when this topic is brought up. Naruto also gave Sasuke some of his chakra during the war, and Naruto is not only Asura's reincarnation but from the same generation of transmigrants as Sasuke. Couldn't "dying" with Naruto's chakra in his system have awakened the Rinnegan too?
     
  18. Zef Well-Known Member

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    This.:catwalk
    I've been saying it, but I don't push it too hard since Sasuke's own words and the Databook contradict it.:puppers
     
  19. PureWIN Mr. Prince

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    He needed to first die (for a short period of time).

    Remember the Rinnegan represents the cycle of life and death. Naturally one has to go through the cycle to unlock it.
     
  20. T-Bag Blackbeard

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    I suppose it occurs in a tragic event. Just like Sharingan/MS
     
  21. Ganta Not the Ganta from Narutobase. Stop Hollering PMs.

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    This 'death or near it' event is the absurd nonsense that has been driving most side of the debate, despite the meeting between Hagoromo and Sasuke not happening for Madara's.


    Sasuke does not bear Asura's power. His Rinnegan has Hagoromo's imprint but a stripped off Asura component--the eye's periodic deadtime was telling you this.


    He'll need Naruto's DNA, not chakra if used in the context of Madara's way. From that parameter, a Rinnegan then forms by chakra union of both Sasuke and Naruto.(when Sasuke turns ninety-something)
     
  22. Karyu Endan Smilies = Not serious

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    It didn't happen for Madara because Hagaromo chose not to meet with him. Hagaromo saw what happened with Madara and couldn't trust him because he was going down the same path Kaguya did. The fact that Madara awakened the Rinnegan without Hagaromo's direct involvement itself is a testament to how meeting with Hagaromo isn't necessary for the Rinnegan, be it his case or anyone's (read: Sasuke).

    Hagaromo only directly gave (or at least needed to give) Naruto and Sasuke the seals to restrain JJ Madara / Kaguya. Six Paths Sage Mode is the result of the union of all nine tailed beasts and natural energy (becoming a Juubi Jinchuriki does the same thing), while the Rinnegan is the result of Indra's and Asura's chakra mixing together. The latter case is Hagaromo's imprint anyway, what with Indra and Asura's chakra merging to become an equivalent of Hagaromo's, but the point is Hagaromo didn't need to give Sasuke anything for his own Rinnegan to awaken.

    No, Naruto's chakra in itself would suffice for the Rinnegan. It would be even better, in fact.

    http://www3.[Blocked Domain]/Read1_Naruto_671_7#gohere

    The way Hagaromo describes it, Madara was integrating Hashirama's chakra into his being by using DNA. Madara was just using a more roundabout method for the same thing. Chakra was always the ingredient needed; DNA is just one way of getting it. Receiving chakra directly from the source would be even better. Hence why Sasuke's Rinnegan, unlike the periodic dead-time made you believe, is actually superior to Madara's Rinnegan. It manifests in one eye and yet is still just as potent as both of Madara's eyes put together, and on top of that, Sasuke can use his non-Susano'o Sharingan techniques while the Rinnegan is active - something the Five Kage noted was impossible with Madara.

    The periodic dead-time is due to Sasuke using up a ton of chakra to travel between dimensions. Besides, even Madara's Rinnegan has a time limit on some of its techniques; Shinra Tensei has dead time proportional to the area of effect and Limbo Clones can only exist for a limited time and need charge time as well. Madara thinks the latter here:

    http://www3.[Blocked Domain]/Read1_Naruto_674_13#gohere
     
  23. Ganta Not the Ganta from Narutobase. Stop Hollering PMs.

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    Get your story straight... very straight.

    Numerous Indra tensa-sha before Madara also met Hagoromo. Being all manipulated by Zetsu for Rinnegan, they trail along Kaguya's path by instigating them to trust a trumped up tablet.​


    Where was Sasuke installed Hashirama's cell?


    Madara moved heaven and earth to land Hashirama's cells, and chakra alone gives rise to the complexity of Rinnegan ? :D:



    @Klue do your Jawb. DAMMIT!!
     

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