Discussion in 'Konoha Training Grounds' started by Kinjishi, Jan 14, 2016.
ET for starting this thang?
It's a huge headache if you don't realize that Naruto himself is very inconsistent.
A lot of people take some of these things too face value, insist that it's the only interpretation, and then say "Wait, this didn't make any sense" once scenes aren't in line with their previous interpretation, but then refuse to correct that interpretation.
Everytime Naruto gets a new powerup, he gets some kind of hype, but then he's down back to earth in fights afterward.
Also are we allowing Minato to keep his KCM Mode, and Kyuubi arms....
Also, as far as plug-and-play eyes go, I think that Madara having some unspecified technique for doing so makes much more sense than just believing that's how eyes work in this world.
What are thoughts on Susanoo Kakashi?
Madara has his regeneration, that pretty much explains p&p for him. That and him being Madara.
Minato was allowed to have Sage Mode but no KCM if I remember well. We did restrict his clones to avoid double Shiki Fuuin shenaningans, right?
No Susano'o for Kakashi, he has only 1 Sharingan after all.
Right, but would it be worth it to put in 2xSharigan Kakashi?
No PS for Kakashi and his other Susanoo forms are featless. Plus we really don't need another Susanoo.
If we allow DMS Kakashi then I'll play with Rinne Sharingan Madara.
With Kinjishi being so busy it's hard to keep track of all the new changes nd restrictions. We should've used the good old tghread-for-character method.
And then what's stopping one from using 40 year old genin.
Nothing I guess.
That's complete conjecture. Plug-and-play is exactly what the sharingan has always been.
Tobi, who is no medic, popped one into every jinchuriki. Orochimaru, while admittedly an outlier, managed to stick a bunch of them into an arm and a skull (or did dude do that to himself?). They obviously play well with other devices.
Hell, for generations stealing your kinsmens eyes for yourself was just another Tuesday.
Tier List is pretty much done. It's in the OP. Look thru it, if anything stands out to anyone that you think should be changed then let us know.
Let's get this party started
You forgot to restrict double SF for Minato and Oonoki's Jinton lightsaber form.
Wait, how can we ban ET for Tobirama, but then give him his infinite explosion? Those tags are made out of the scraps that come off an ET zombie.
I really don't think letting him have it is a big deal, just limit him to reviving those that have died in the match. It basically never works anyway, and with this being UT, there will be plenty of other, way more op, shenaningens for people to screw around with anyway.
If we had, this tournament would have almost certainly flat-lined.
To be fair, we don't know how good Tobirama is at Edo Tensei. Based on statements and feats, I'd assume Kabuto > Orochimaru > Tobirama.
Oro figures out how to bring back the Hokage, but the fact that Kabuto can fight a whole war himself is pretty ridiculous. Tobirama, however, invented it and didn't build on it in nearly the capacity that Oro and Kabuto did.
I might advocate just slapping a numerical Edo limit on Tobirama and calling it a day.
Uh, Kakashi? No restrictions on double Mangekyo, no restrictions on any of that other crap he pulled out of his ass.
He only had that when Rinbito's spirit went into him or whatever it was.
Pretend it's a suicide attack like C0.
Why? That's so arbitrary, not to mention how hard it nerfs Tobiramas overal damage output.
I don't recall it being stated that Oro's first ET was anything special, Tobirama's should be comparable; and I'd be OK with capping him at one or two zombies per match.
That gives him a medium for his ace techninque, and allows for some interesting late game contingencies.
How is it arbitrary? It says in the Databook it's a suicide attack when a non Edo Tensei zombie uses it. Sounds pretty clear to me.
The infinite replication thing is a bit much.
Kakashi and Obito (pre-insanity) is worth 70 points. I'd imagine it wouldn't be that difficult to convince Obito to give up an (single) eye to give Kakashi double MS.
I didn't know the databook had covered the technique. I was still under the impression it could only be used by an Edo.
I still don't get how it would be suicidal when he has hiraishin. Databook be damned, that shit makes no sense.
Quoted from the translation thread:
Mutually Multiplying Explosive Tags
A-rank; Offensive; Close-range
User: Senju Tobirama
"Relentlessly violent detonations of explosion tags
Reducing even tough armours to dust."
Tags that summon more tags that then explode - a special explosion tag. The Second Hokage developed this for the purpose of combining it with “Edo Tensei”. Upon ACTIVATION, due to the devastating (terribly violent) explosions, it is highly probable that the jutsu-caster will be caught in it. If a live PERSON performs the technique, death is inevitable, for it is a blast technique that sacrifices one’s life (body).
(Tobirama vs SAGE Obito)
The timing for the invocation (activation) of the jutsu is crucial.
A surprise attack will demonstrate absolute (certain, guranteed) results.
(Gamakichi avoiding the blast radius)
At the end of hitting the target (enemy), even if reduced to pieces of flesh (meat confetti), the explosions CONTINUE….
The thunderous roar of the explosions speaks for that attack’s brutality (severity).
Translated by viatoretvenus
It's classified as a suicide tech - not sure if it's legit given our rules specifically state that ordering suicide is not allowed.
Is Manda 2.0 allowed? That thing is HUGE. Like, island-level. How do you kill it?
I would rule it the same as Shiki Fuujin--telling a character to do it right off the bat is an invalid order, but they may use it if they're going to die anyway.
*cough* Kage Bunshin *cough*
I still don't see why Shiki is allowed. There is literally no way to stop it and it has immense range. Atleast make a rule banning it with Shadow clones.
^ I have said this at least 3 times in this thread.
After we settle those two suicide jutsu I think it's safe for Rego
As long as C0 is allowed, all suicide stacks are legit. If you're strategy revolves around sacrificing your highest tier I'm probably voting against you because that's a bad strategy.
Forgot to ban Manda 2, that's definitely banned.
So what exactly stops Tobirama from spamming suicidal KBs?
C0/Tobirama explosion have legit counter to them though...Like reverse summoning, stabbing Diedara with Raiton, FTG, Susanoo, etc. No one can even see the deathgod let alone stop it from soloing your team with clones
If he could do it with KBs there'd be absolutely no reason to ever have developed it for the explicit purpose of combing it with Edo Tensei.
It has to be done with ET's because the tags are summoned to the tagg'd body, and as it regenerates the tags keep getting summoned back. A KB or human body would just be vaped.
So wouldn't the same thing happen to his normal body? He'd die well before the technique reached the scale it did in the manga.
If people want it banned then it's banned. Tobirama isn't unrestricted anymore. He's regular ass Tobirama that we have on the regular old tier list in a unrestricted tournament. Shiki Fuujin is banned for everyone too. Looking forward to another Madara v Madara final.
What the fuck are you on about, Kin? Like one person has suggested banning Tobirama jutsu.
No, he was an edo when he used it wasn't he? Edo's are bound to the mortal world until dispelled hence their regeneration. If he tried with a KB or hsi body I'm pretty sure it'd just be similar to Hanzo's Jutsu, or Sai's carpet bomb AOE.
Why are you being over dramatic? We're still discussing things here and just trying to ban last minute, zero effort game changers. I'd rather have someone win with a powerful Madara, then have something cheap like RDS take him out just cause.
We have only ever seen the technique used via an Edo, which is why I think we should just give him ET. We put the same restrictions that we had on Pre-SM Kabuto, and limit him to two ETs. Tobirama would then, in terms of allowed jutsu, be almost completely unrestricted.
Nobody is particularly against Tobirama having ET. The most compelling argument has been that it is stated, or at least implied, that Oro improved on the initial jutsu before using it to res the Kage.
I went back and read both the Oro/Hiruzen fight, and Sasuke's convo with the Kage. The only mention of improvement I found was Tobirama commenting on the difference in power and control compared to when Oro revived him to fight Sarutobi. So I don't see any reason to assume Tobirama's ET works any different, or is any less effective than Oro's first version.
By giving him ET we allow him to use Kibakufuda the way it was meant to be, removing any need for voter interpretation; which I personally consider to be the bane of the KC.
Soooo we good?
As soon as double Shiki Fuuin gets banned, yeah.
Sounds like I'm going to make a Kakashi + Kid Obito team to get my hands on his Susanoo.
• Minato may not use Shiki Fuujin in conjunction with Kage Bunshin.
• Tobirama may not use Gojō Kibakufuda in conjunction with Kage Bunshin.
• Kakashi may not access Susanoo. Nice Try.
If there are no more complaints, start registration.
sounds great, just change Hiruzen as well as Minato and we're cash.
If your UNRESTRCITED team gets taken down by kamikaze Sarutobi's, I'm sorry but you deserve to lose. That's not even banned on the regular tier list.
How do you stop Sakura + Hiruzen KB barrage w/ Shiki Fuin your whole squad? Whose touching the death reaper?
If you still feel the need to keep it, then whatves just start registration
Dude, that's a legit strat even in the normal tourneys. At least the grandpa has to touch you to do it, unlike the Blondaime.
We can put up a rego.
Kinda wish I had noticed this before throwing up rego, but what was the point of giving Minato access to the kage barrier? He can only make one clone, and it's banned on both Tobirama and Hiruzen. The former of which he can't even be paired with anyway.
Aside from genjutsuing the other teams Minato into helping you, he literally can't use it.
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