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Unresticted Tier List Construction Thread

Discussion in 'Konoha Training Grounds' started by Kinjishi, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    In working towards a future Semi-Unrestricted Tournament, let's discuss the tier list. Our main objectives will be to...

    • Update Tier List
    • Balance Tier List

    *Many links in the profiles are outdated and not functioning. They will be fixed, eventually.

    Please discuss.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  2. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    Gai needs to be priced higher or have his 7th gate removed. He intercepted Madara in V3 with a couple mile spanning Hirudora, and was able to blast in and threaten Madara without getting touched by Goudama from Juubi Madara.

    I think Legged Susanoo should be banned.

    Minato should be priced higher because of his war feats, and Reaper Death Seal is a real cheap move IMO. He can just kill himself and your Nagato at match start and have 40 points worth of team smash the opponents remaining 12.

    Kakashi needs to be limited to pre War Kamui cause he can spam that shit a bunch before keeling over, and he was able to snipe BM Naruto so fast that Obito thought he just killed the clone. He also has the size to warp Gedo's head, and Killer Bee. He can also warp himself.

    C0 has the same problem as Reaper death seal

    Sauce needs to be properly restricted to essentially Kabuto fight EMS.

    Gaara should get Shikaku back with new feats if we are allowing other Bjuu.

    Why is Bjuudama allowed lmao? That sounds like nuke city from distance.

    That's all I see from first glance.
     
  3. Dr. Leonard Church away fighting dragons

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    Madara should not have clones. Period. He solo'd pretty much the entire last SU because he could spam Mokuton and Katon with upwards of 5 clones, nobody could get close to him, nobody could AOE him (Preta Realm), nobody could find the right Madara. Only reason he lost was because he got up against himself, or (IIRC) Kakashi @Short.

    We could restrict him further (no Rinnegan/Mokuton) but that seems a bit much.
     
  4. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Agreed. Alive Godara has shown how strong he truly is. Either no clones or a single Kage Bunshin should be allowed for him, but I wouldn't restrict his Rin'negan or Mokuton. He has no Sage power on his own, no need to address that.

    Gai warrants a bump, especially if we allow 8th gate.

    Minato should have no RDS and Kamui needs restriction.

    No problem with C0 IMO, we have more than enough tanks who can take it or block or circumvent it.

    Sasuke and Naruto definitely needs a talk.
     
  5. Daenerys Stormborn Mother of Dragons Moderator

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    Madara definitely needs to be nerfed--as faffles said, he proved himself to be hugely OP in the last UT.
     
  6. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Madara was definitely an issue last time. No clones sounds appropriate. Bumping Gai up a tier sounds about right too. I think the cutoff for the last tournament was somewhere around ch600, so there's still a lot of material that has to be covered. I noticed a distinct lack of Tobi/Obito, and he's certainly a candidate for addition.
     
  7. Dr. Leonard Church away fighting dragons

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    Tobi needs a restriction stating he can't come back from the spirit world or whatever the FUCK that was. Other than that and the obvious restrictions (no Jinchuriki, limited phasing...), I think we can put him in no problem.
     
  8. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Uchiha Madara's profile is completed. Please comment or make any further suggestions.

    • Banned the use of all clones.
    • Restricted use of Ten-Tails' Jinchūriki powers
    • Banned Rinbo: Hengoku

     
  9. Dr. Leonard Church away fighting dragons

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    Only asking how we're supposed to kill him. Blind, living Madara tanked multiple bijuu tails and only lost an arm. He's immune to ninjutsu (Preta), almost immune to taijutsu (feats + Susanoo), and probably doesn't care about non-epic genjutsu (Sharingan). um
     
  10. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Kamui I guess. Soul Rip. Frog Song. I'm sure there are some ways. Outside of Susanoo, he doesn't have a whole lot going for him offensively. Fire techs could maybe trash low tiers but I don't think it'll stop other high tiers. You just have to gang bang him with good team work I guess.
     
  11. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Obito definitely needs restrictions on Kamui.

    Also, Naruto and Sasuke need restrictions - namely Sasuke's Rin'negan techs, Final Susano'o, Rikudo chakra, 9 Bijuu mode, Indra's bow and the final Rasengan used.

    Kakashi needs PS restricted as well, just in case.
     
  12. Dr. Leonard Church away fighting dragons

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    Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi should just flat-out be restricted from any post-Rikudo powerup. Every single bit of it is borked as fuck.
     
  13. Kuya God of the 5th Dimension

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    Deidara solo's
     
  14. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Naruto's profile is almost complete. Just a few things to clarify.

    • Should X be allowed?
    • Should X be allowed?
    • Should Naruto have access the other eight Bijū's chakra?

     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  15. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Maybe.
    No.
    NO.

    Also restrict Fukasaku and Shima. He's already OP without access to the strongest genjutsu.

    I guess we should mention his genjutsu immunity with Kurama.
     
  16. The Pirate on Wheels The Missing Link

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    Madara shouldn't be allowed to mokuton meld.
     
  17. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Why not? There are more than enough nukes.

    But Naruto really shouldn't get Fukasaku and Shima.
     
  18. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    I agree with limiting Fuka and Shima, Frog Song would be very hax with the rest of Naruto's arsenal.

    And if this just fine tuning the unrestricted Tier List, or are we adding in other ninja as well?

     
  19. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Removed Ma and Pa. Still not sure what to do about the super rasenshurikens yet.

    Completed Nagato and Mū. Sasuke will be next.
     
  20. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    The first one looks way more potent and is Sage energy, while the second looks faster and just a little less potent, being composed of Kyuubi chakra. Both look super suspect IMO.

    I think Bjuudama should be banned, but if we're keeping that, I don't see why these would be banned.

    No way Naruto should get all Bjuu stuff. That'd make him way too versatile on top of SM/KCM/ and clone game. Is BM allowed for Kyuubi, cause that form of Naruto can physically deflect and outpace multiple Bjuudamas.
     
  21. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Yeah, we should probably restrict Bijuudamas (mini-BD can stay). And Oonoki's Jinton lightsaber.

    Also, perhaps we could allow Madara to copy techs.

    Are we going to touch Obito with a 10-foot long kunai or it's better if we don't bother with his hax?
     
  22. The Pirate on Wheels The Missing Link

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    Dude has Susano and mokuton can and deflect bijuudama tier nukes. Camping in mokuton and spamming forests is still haxx.
     
  23. The Pirate on Wheels The Missing Link

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    Zabuza level should be "Root Level."
     
  24. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    I'm getting rid of the jinchūriki. They're all just overpriced Bijuudama nukes. None of them can even pair together at those prices, defeating the whole purpose of Rinnegan synergy. None of them will be able to pair with Tobi. And I looked at the last tournament, and no one picked any of them. It's better to take away their transformations and allow them to be support characters.
     
  25. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    I agree with restricting the Jinton Beam, it will be too powerful, especially coupled with a person that can provide Onoki with chakra.

    If we are removing the Bijuudama spammers, then Onoki's Jinton Beam needs to be looked at.

    Are we allowing Manda II to be summoned by Kabuto? I mean, it doesn't have too many feats as far as durability goes, but the thing itself is the largest summoning in the manga and dwarfs the Bijuu. While it lacks a powerful offense, its size alone will be an issue to many. And are we granting it the same powers of Manda, such as skin shedding and burrowing underground? I would assume yes since it is a clone and thus has the attributes of the original, right?

    My next point is that I think Kabuto needs a bump up. Indefinite Sage Mode, body immune to damage, sensing, poison that stops any Mokuton users, boss sized summoning, access to a second body to perform techniques, knowledge on almost every character in the manga, plus Edo Tensei (granted it is hard to pull off, but nonetheless, if accomplished he is powerful), Kabuto is definitely a threat and a one man army. I don't know how testing in the past has gone, but he is quite powerful. As of now, his maximum pairing is him plus one of the 24 pointers, Darui, Chiyo, or Yamato. Similar to Madara and Naruto, his versatility is too high.
    So my question is, how has testing for Kabuto gone before? Is he too powerful? Or right where he is? Lower?

    Next, Sakura needs to be moved up. Adding in Katsuya, she is a mini Tsunade, so she should be at least 12 points, upward to 20. She has everything Tsunade has, except different showings (one could argue better speed as she hit Kaguya, Shin Uchiha, Juubi clones, etc.). My other question is about her seal. Does she have three years worth of chakra stored into her seal, or is it less than that? Because if she has three years of chakra stored up, her chakra is one of the highest on the chart, something which should further bump her up.

    Are we keeping the restriction on Konan to only how many paper tags she originally showed? What about granting her access to the full amount that she showed in the Paper Ocean? I mean, she had to prep paper ocean for several weeks, so she isn't pulling out that technique in a match, but I see no harm in giving her more exploding tags, especially in an unrestricted.

    Next, what is the stipulation for Ginkaku/Kinkaku going Version 2 mode? Are they able to freely access it or is it something that only happens once one of them dies?

    Also, I agree with moving down the Jinchuriki, allow them to be support, with access only to Version 2 and smaller Bijuudamas.

    Finally, I would like to once again propose adding in Shin Uchiha. If we aren't at that stage yet then I apologize, but I do want him adding in here, as a lower tiered MS user and space time warper. I have a bio for him in my blogs which you can use, by all means.
     
  26. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    Keep roshi, limit Bjuu Modo. He's a solid addition. Ban Rinnengan, or access to teammate Obito if you don't want that with him. But overall good business move.
     
  27. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    also 16 point Kitsuchi is not on the list and he's a major doton piece Imo.
     
  28. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Sorry, I had the flu and couldn't get much work done. Sasuke should be just about completed.

    ? Should we ban all X X of Susanoo (Sasuke & Madara)?

     
  29. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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  30. Daenerys Stormborn Mother of Dragons Moderator

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    I hope you're feeling better, Kin!

    Yes, we should ban the humanoid Susano'o forms.
     
  31. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    No, they can stay IMO. However, I'd restrict Enton: Yasaka no Magatama.
     
  32. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Killer B is completed.

    • Databook IV stated Fūinjutsu: Okutopasu Hōrudo can produce a thousand clones. Ban it?

     
  33. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    limit him to one clone at a time.
     
  34. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Limit him to the same number of clones Naruto can produce at a time
     
  35. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Base Naruto can produce 1000+. Sage Naruto can produce two at a time. Kyuubi Mode Naruto can produce none.
     
  36. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    Bee should be limited to one IMO. Physically he is a monster, and he accomplished it vs V2 Jins. That sounds like some major support sweep at short along with Bee himself + the rest of your team.
     
  37. Daenerys Stormborn Mother of Dragons Moderator

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    Limiting Bee to one or two clones makes sense.
     
  38. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Reposting this, since it seemed to be overlooked.
     
  39. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    Too long, did read.

    Restrict Jinton?
    - Ōnoki would no longer be unrestrcited, which is the point here. He falls back to his normal price. The big cube version is banned though, which may address some of your concern.
    - Mū will have no offense unless we make one up for him.
    - I'll have to disagree with this point.

    Restrict Manda II
    - He is generally without true combat feats, so I may agree with you on this one based on that fact. I'll have to do some research into the last tournament to see how he was utilized and his overall effectiveness.
    - So this is a maybe, pending further analysis.

    Increase Kabuto's Price?
    - Without Manda II? Not sure about this one. Can he comfortably dominate like Madara and Naruto?
    - This point seems unlikely, unless there's overwhelming support for him to be increased.

    Increase Sakura?
    - As mentioned previously, this tier list was constructed something like three years ago, so it was before Sakura got any of her new abilities. It's accurate as of chapter 600ish so there's still much updating too be done for several characters.
    - Increasing her is a given, I just haven't gotten to her yet.

    Konan?
    - Konan is historically one of the biggest headaches we have here. Opinions of her vary wildly and her power fluctuates like a piece of paper caught in a storm. I believe keeping her like this was the safe call we made back then.
    - Unless there's a serious call for her to be unrestricted I'm not sure we should touch her. Probably seems unlikely.

    Kinkaku/Ginkaku?
    - Free access.

    Shin Uchiha?
    - He came into existence after the KC fell out of existence. My concern about this character is that he's fairly weak, is likely to be low priced, and will only serve as a Sharingan donor. In a tournament where Izanagi is allowed, he'll unbalance Danzō like a mother fucker (and perhaps Tobi as well pending his addition) .
    - Unless we make a rule where he can't donate eyes, I don't think it's wise to add him.


    Thanks for the input. Hope this addresses any concerns. There's still a lot of work to be done.
     
  40. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    The Jinton lightsaber will murder anyone sans Nagato, Preta or Madara, that's why we suggest its restriction.

    Manda 2 wan't used in last UT, the sole user of Sage Kabuto DQ'd in the 1st round.

    Shin is useless IMO.
     
  41. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Thank you for addressing this.

    Shin Uchiha, while low priced compared to the other Uchihas, does offer niches over them. Unlike Madara, Itachi, or Sasuke (in this version), Shin others a space time ninjutsu that allows him to warp himself and others (we may end up restricting the ability to warp his teammates, or allow it in the unrestricted). In addition, he can communicate with others via his Sharingan creature, allowing him to communicate with teammates far away by sending the creature with them. Further more, the ability to mark people/weapons and then freely manipulate with his eyes is actually incredible, as, similar to what Chiyo did with Sakura, he can make fodder ninjas move a lot quicker and do things they normally wouldn't be able to. Pairing him up with ninjas with great weapons (like Kin/Gin, Konan, and Sasori), and he will be a powerful force.

    As far as the sharing of eyes goes, I feel like that violates the IC rule. Would a character willing give up their sharingan? Even if he can, doesn't the user have to have the sharingan in their body to use it for Izanagi? Wouldn't that require surgery on an open battle field? I feel like that will be hard to accomplish. But even then, banning sharing of the eyes still gives Shin Uchiha his niche and allows people who want a sharingan user or space-time user to get one for a lower price than Obito or Minato or Itachi/Sasuke.
     
  42. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    If he just had one set of eyes in his skull I'd be inclined to agree with you since he would require them in order to contribute as a fighter. But when you have multiple eyes in your head and even more on your arm that seemingly serve no purpose whatsoever since he can't use Izanagi himself, then it's hard to argue he's doing himself or his team any harm by giving away his extra eyes so someone else can use a technique that's allows one to essentially warp reality.
     
  43. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Then I agree with banning the sharing of eyes

    But wouldn't it be difficult to transfer the eye over mid battle?
     
  44. Dr. Leonard Church away fighting dragons

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    How strong do people think Danzo is, if they think giving him a dozen or so extra eyeballs is going to make him worth purchasing? IIRC he's the only guy with unrestricted Izanagi. So he gets to live another 12 minutes, woohoo. That's not giving him the ability to win any matches he couldn't win before, and against anyone he would lose against he's still losing.

    Just make a blanket ban on people magically learning Izanagi/Izanami via Sharingan transfer and related bullshit. That should solve the problem nicely.
     
  45. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Even so, as long as Shin Uchiha is over 32 points (above Konan, Hanzo, and Mei), he couldn't even be paired with Danzo, thus making the Izanagi point null.

    But, if we are looking at the entire picture, can Shin Uchiha surgically transfer his eyes over to someone mid battle? Would giving a powerful character a Sharingan be considered haxx? Like imagining Naruto or Orochimaru or Jiraiya or Kabuto or Kakuzu having access to a Sharingan, would that be considered too hax? In the event of yes, then we should ban the sharing of eyes. If the cost of attempting to do surgery during a battle is very high, thus making the SHaringan transfering a special and rare event (like prepping Edo Tensei), then we can allow it. (Though this also would make the Izanagi point null again, as having Shin Uchiha transfer his eye (or eyes which would take long) over to Danzo would require a lot of uninterrupted prep, which considering how much Danzo costs, wouldn't happen as Baku couldn't stall for long).

    But, if this is going to create far too much debate, then let's just ban the sharing of Sharingan and place Shin Uchiha on the Tier List.
     
  46. Daenerys Stormborn Mother of Dragons Moderator

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    We've had Rin (who can canonically do eye transfers in a battlefield situation) and Gaiden Obito on the tier list for a long time, and it doesn't seem to have resulted in any problems. I don't know if having Shin be the one donating eyes would be substantially different--I guess the one point is what Kin brought up about Shin having more eyes to donate. But it seems to me that transplanting multiple eyes would take more time, and I think in most cases it's not worth having your powerful characters sit around babysitting Shin while he transplants five eyes into somebody. Plus, you don't want to be just sitting there doing eye surgery while Deva's obliterating the landscape with CST or Itachi's setting everyone and their mom on fire with Amaterasu.

    Also, I know the Shins had that lab where they were transplanting organs, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that they would be capable of doing it in a situation where they have no proper surgical tools and enemy ninja are throwing high-level ninjutsu around like candy.
     
  47. Kinjishi <marquee loop="true"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/

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    The whole surgery argument went right out the window when Madara shoved an eye ball into his head and had that thing working. And then he did it two more times just to make sure we were paying attention. logic don't apply to this manga anymore.
     
  48. David an accident

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  49. Dr. White Smell nice? it's Moonflower

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    That was the most gangster moment in the manga IMO. I was in shock, because we were accustomed to seeing Kakashi with a sharingan in his socket since the beginning of the manga. Madara was like "Gimme".
     
  50. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Yeah, but he is Madara, he can do whatever he want. IMO we should leave Shin out, he's more trouble than it's worth.

    Who else is left to discuss? I think Gai, Minato, Tobirama and possibly Obito if we are going to the masochist route.
     

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