Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Fragile, Nov 30, 2012.
Location: Forest of Death
Minset: To kill
With No restrictions then Tsunade can win handily whenever she brings out the slug.
Even without the slug Tsunade still likely wins. With knowledge Byakugo would likely go on right away and she can heal her from the acid mist as well as Mei's sutions and Yōtons. Tsunade also has more chakra and can likely outlast Mei.
Tsunade wins, mist immediatly(either type) is countered by boss-summoning immediately, which will create the neccessary opening for the hokages cqc romp to victory over the mizukage.
...and the knowledge dictates mei has to go for mist immediately...
water dragons can be punchhed & tanked.
lava globs have less volume & direct hits can be evaded.
Mei destroys her.
Flood Dragon drowns her, Water Encampment swallows any and all acid spit as well as completely washing Katsuyu away.
Tsunade wouldn't have much of a chance at countering the acidic mist, there's generally no way her regeneration can keep up with that pace of decay. Her eyes and skin melt first, and she screams in utter pain while blind and completely defenseless.
Katsuyu can't survive against Lava spit either if you think she'd offer some type of counter.
Mei is just a bad matchup for a Taijutsu-only type.
yeah, the lava would beat the slug. but Mei cant take both slug and tsunade at the same time.
all tsunade has to do is close the gap imo. then she can strike mei in cqc,even while ducking shots of lava/slipping thru water wall. the slug counters the mist & creates the neccessary diversion
Why can't she take them on? Her Flood Dragon would clearly hit both of them and Water Encampment means she isn't closing any distance.
If Tsunade plans on closing the distance than the slug can't spit acid, so all Mei has to do is focus on Tsunade.
okay: i just realized the circular-ness of our debate; im done
thanks for bothering anyway, but i just see it differently
What about Tsunade tanks all of Mei's jutsu with her Byakugo active? And I don't know how Mei's lava and Suitons are supposed to take Katsuyu down. From what I've seen, she can spit pretty large mass of acids as well that is hard for a person to dodge. Although Kirigakure no Jutsu may be an asset, I still wouldn't consider it some kind of deal breaker since Tsunade is almost immortal and she only needs one punch to end the match. Mei also hasn't shown any amazing speed feats to reason that she evades all of Tsunade's attacks.
I think Tsunade is really really underestimated in this section.
Well i think Mei could win but i favor Tsunade...but tsunade/slug wil not tank acid or lava. we arent underestimating Tsunade & she isnt immortal in any sense.
I didn't say she's immortal, I actually said she's almost immortal. The number of ways to permanently kill her is few. Even splitting her in half didn't help.
Thning is though, when you think about it, Mei is a really fucking broken fighter. She doesn't even need to overcome Tsunade's uberhealing. She's got the potential to use a combination of lava and water techniques to turn Tsunade into a statue. (lave stream ala melting apparition only aimed directly at Tsunade ==> water release technique to solidify the lava ==> immobilised Tsunade. I'm not saying she'd win, because Tsunade could break her face with a punch before she gets a chance, but Mei is still haxy as fuck.
Is Tsunade V2 A now?
On what level does Tsunade ever make contact with someone who was counter nuking Madara?
What is this wank about? As soon as Tsunade takes a step she's destroyed by a water encampment or flood dragon, following a quick boiler release which she wouldn't tank on a max level assuming the first two battlefield suitons didn't snap her spine.
Slug is tanking lava release and Flood Dragon? What the fuck...
When does the slug get summoned? Before or after the flood dragon drowns Tsunade?
When does Tsunade open her seal? Before or after the flood dragon breaks her body?
When does Tsunade punch Mei? Before or after the air is boiling and her eyes are liquid? Assuming she blitzes inside the oven that is Mei's boil release, is it before she clouds the field in hidden mist?
I consider Tsunade the strongest among the five Kages, while Mei Terumi is among the weakest Kages ever. Tsunade certainly wins this. She might not even have to summon Katsuya.
incidentally, ^your post is just as insubstantial as mine
Mei has stronger offense...
It's just my impression. I can't consider Onoki the strongest anymore, since his age seems to become a weakness. I know that prime Onoki could rape Tsunade, but I don't think that could happen now...
And Mei just disappointed me in so many ways. She was my favorite Kage but during the fight against Madara she proved her weak will by being the first one to give up. And she does not seem to make that much use of her Kekkei Genkai skills either.
Edit: And besides, why would Tsunade have to summon Katsuya if her regeneration ability is not restricted?
I hope you mean physically strongest only and not overall strongest.
Tsunade wins with the help of Katsuyu and Byakugo. Mei may have strong offenses but I'd say the hardest bit for Tsunade would be the mist, although Byakugo would save her.
Tsunade takes this with no difficulty.
An open, enclosed area would favor Mei greatly, but this isn't the case. Tsunade is good at evasion, so she can pretty much avoid most attacks and land a fatal blow.
Katsuyu isn't even necessary, but no restrictions mean this is a rape in Tsunade's favor.
Mei is a glass cannon, and Tsunade is a tank with an immortal acid shooting slug. Meaning she can take the punishment and take out Mei with any one attack. Including sending Katsuya to go in scout mode to find Mei's position, and either have her shot with acid, or jump in there and make it a close and personal fight, even with mist. Mei has the tools to drag out the fight, and try to keep away, but ultimately she will lose to Tsunade.
Posts like this are just embarrassing. Mei is the fucking Mizukage.
Without Katsuyu, I this Mei would win mid difficulty. Mei can keep her away using her water dragon and skilled mist techniques. Hidden mist and skilled mist is also a very deadly combination. Even with her byakugou technique, Tsunade would have a tough time dealing with Mei's lava jutsu. Like Lt Iceman said, it would just stick to her and continuously burn her, draining her of her chakra.
With Katsuyu, Tsunade might actually have a chance. I dont know how Mei will be able to handle Tsunade while Katsuyu is spitting acid on her. Mei might be able to take out Katsuyu with a comination hidden mist and skilled mist, although a mini Katsuyu was able to survive the corrosive chakra of Naruto's eight-tailed form, in which case Mei would probably use the hidden mist technique to block Katsuyu's vision and focus on Tsunade.
Overall I'd give Mei the edge.
I love how mei can keep her hidden mist and boiling mist up...while spamming lava and suiton's...and not run out of chakra...is she a tailed beast or some shit.
Tsunade's chakra reserves clearly surpasses mei's. Even while healing others and giving them her chakra she could keep strength of a hundred active and fight. Tsunade can regen and outlast mei easily and with hundreds of katsuyu's spraying acid and spreading over the area rapidly mei will be hard pressed not to be slathered in acid. Katsuyu can even seek mei out and give her whereabouts to mei during the chaos(splitting and spitting acid) and tsunade can end it there.
Mei has never shown signs of having large chakra reserves so this multiple technique spamming stuff? Not gonna fly. Using all of her techniques in rapid succession and maintaining them will tire her out quick as hell.
The lava didn't stick to susanoo or bee, it won't stick to tsunade. It can envelope and cover her, but it's shown that it does not work like how people think it works.
White zetsu was able to move around in a room filled with Mei's acid. Tsunade's byakugo tanking feats of magatama craps all over white zetsu's durability/ implied regeneration.
Tsunade wins this jank, she has the durability to just run through mei's attacks. Not that she will do that, but Mei's attacks will in no way keep tsunade at bay. Her lava isn't all that fast, tsunade is an expert in evasive manuevers, and tsunade can get to Mei even if the later stands in a space full of acid.
The slugging queen lands a hit, Mei yells "kyaaaaa!" and gives up like she does in canon.
But why would she need to spam her hidden mist and solid fog jutsu? Once the mist is up, its gonna stay their. Theres no need for her to spam it to maintain them. I guess she would use it to occasionally as a top up.
Your right about Tsunade's chakra reserves surpassing Mei's, but its not like Mei has a small chakra reserve. Her fighting style seems to involve spamming elemental techniques - its very taxing on her chakra, so she must have a pretty good chakra reserve to be able to fight the way she does.
Tsunade might be able to outlast Mei but Mei might end the fight much quicker than you think.
Well the lava was able to stick to those walls in the kage summit place. And susanoo is completely different to skin you know. Also, the lava that Roshi used against Bee is a different form of lava used by Mei.
Your right about Tsunade having greater tanking feats then Zetsu, but the continuous burn of that acid and lava would drain Tsunade's chakra. I just dont see her being able to keep up her byakugou for as long as she was able to keep it up against Madara - the damage that Mei's lava and boil jutsu do are of a different nature than say Madara's susanoo swords and yasaka magatama.
^ finally a logical objective post
*looks at the barrage of crap-fallacy arguements for Tsunade & Slug*
Smh...screw it; Mei wins. Tsunade wont summon IC(BL)
There was really no need for this as I dont think anyone cares about whether you will respond to someones post or not. I think your underestimating Mei. And I dont know about anyone else, but I gave her the edge in this match-up but I said it would be tough.
Btw when you said that Mei's lava couldn't burn through a wooden wall, are you trying to say that it wont burn through skin?
POW was responding to Lt. Iceman, who made a point of disparaging anyone who was claiming that Tsunade would win in variety of ways.
Ah ok. This is why I like to include peoples quotes!
He was doing a satire of the pro-Mei post further up in the thread.
He's saying that calling it lava and evoking images of real life lava is probably incorrect. Its feats within the Narutoverse aren't particularly impressive amongst top tier shinobi.
Oh I understand your not suppose to apply real life stuff to naruto. And I guess your right about it not having any impressive feats although it was able to melt part of a semi-complete susanoo.
top left corner
Ah, when I had it written, it was going to be the very next post under his. But I forgot to hit enter until way later.
Many people call it lava and seem to believe it as just as dangerous as in real life; feats-wise, this is not the case. Now, it did melt through part of Susano'o's rib-cage; overtime. However a non-totally exhausted Sasuke would have been able to launch attacks before it damaged him.
Tsunade's Byukago has also been compared to Hashirama's perfect healing jutsu. I personally believe it's far superior to Susano'o's rib-cage.
On an unrelated note, your page link is for Mei being smashed by Madara. That's probably not the point you were trying to make.
Yeah, but this is Tsunade.
I think he is referring to the arm smashing Mei. It is badly melted.
A fellow Kage?
You will have to expound upon your point, good sir.
Edit: Oh it is.
A much better scan would have been from the Kage Summit. That's showing something getting through her Futton.
Wow. I never noticed that before.
Thanks. Btw I'm not a guy lol :/
And since when do ranks in Naruto mean anything? Naruto and Sasuke are still Genin, yet they are above most Kages in power.
All it takes for Tsunade is one hit. Like I said, the Hokage is good at evasion and avoiding the lava wouldn't be hard for her, especially in a location filled with obstacles, i.e. trees.
The only thing that could potentially help Mei is her Kirigakure no Jutsu, but Tsunade would probably activate Byakugo, knowing her opponent's offense is based around acids/melting. Mei would never close the distance between them to attack Tsunade, because she knows she would get slaughtered in CQC.
That said, I'm positive that Tsunade can tank the mist for a while. I'm not saying she would just stand there and dance in the acidic mist, but she can just go through it and reach the Mizukage. With full knowledge, she obviously knows the mist's acidity drastically decreases when she gets closer to Mei.
I like Mei, but I just don't think she can pull it off here. Sorry.
Its true that if Tsunade connects with Mei its all over but Mei wouldn't let that happen and it wouldn't be easy. Her encampment pillar + water dragon combo would be very useful - its very rapid and the dragon would just push Tsunade back. It was able to push back Madara who at the time had susanoo his susanoo rib-cage protecting him.
I'm sure Tsunade can tank the mist but with it continuously burning her, its just going to deplete her chakra. And I think it would come down to how much area the hidden mist and skilled mist can cover. The greater area it can cover, the better for Mei.
Btw what difference does it make in regards to the acidity of the mist whether shes closer to Mei or not? The acidity should be uniform. And I have a feeling that the location would benefit Mei more than it would Tsunade.
Mei is obviously very fast with her defensive suitons, (she combo'd her water spout into a water dragon like...instantly) but we have Tsunade's blitz beating her seals speed to the punch vs Madara's fireballs. So within a certain distance, Tsunade has the paneled feats to bum rush Mei and smack her before she can do anything.
Not to mention, Tsunade is pretty much the physically strongest character in the manga. It's not crazy to think that she could resist being blown away by that water. As Synn said, "She punches the water." I'm not so sure on that myself, but it's worth considering. It did push back Madara's Susano, but it wasn't anchored to anything. As Sasuke showed us in his fight with Madara, Susano had to grab onto the bridge for dear life to keep from getting sucked into Baku. So it probably doesn't give you push back immunity just by being up.
Tsunade has enough chakra to heal an entire village, and even stated she has far more chakra than when she faced Pain. It would definitely be taxing on her, but she's got so much freaking chakra I think she can pull it off. After all, Gaara is a former jinchuriki, Mei uses only large scale sourceless ninjutsu, and Oonoki spams jinton. They have to have kage level fuel tanks, and Tsunade restored their chakra multiple times in the Madara fight, before she activated Byako and kept it on from day time to not day time anymore. With Katsuya's ability to divide and scout with hive mind technology, and Mei's own suitons giving away her position, I think it's just a matter of time to spare that Tsunade catches her with something.
None, to my knowledge. Though it's a good reason to explain why she doesn't melt herself. (PH adjustment near her) I just say she's immune to her own jutsu like most ninja seem to be.
Mei can force Mid ranged combat, where Tsunade will be in a disadvantage. Tsunade's only shot is to do a lucky punch, but Mei knows of it, so thats very unlikely.
Tsunade is on a very bad situation now that she's being cut in half, which is something lava can do.
Tsunade HAS being hit many times, however, lava basically desingerates your skin, I don't think theres much she can do here.
I mean Tsunade fans here are assuming Tsunade is invincible or anything, but she is bound to die out by the lava. If she jumps, Mei can shoot lava at her, and it will be impossible to dodge there.
Katsuyu isn't doing anything in a Kage class battle. Mei's lava burns her as well.
And the acid mist that was melting Susanoo ribs, how does Tsunade counter that? Or Katsuyu?
Tsunade was just more useful againts Madara due to healing and Madara not dishing out techniques like Amaterasu, but the lava would work somewhat like Amaterasu, and is being incredibly under-rated.
If it's a durability match, of course Tsunade wins, but it isn't now is it?
I think it could go either way. People tend to forget that Byakugo takes chakra and one of it's weak points is that the bigger the damage, the more chakra it'll cost.
While Mei's justu execution is quite good and she is not going to be blitzed by Tsunade in any way.
But since Tsunade just needs one punch (easier said than done. Konohamaru just needs a Kunai in the throat to kill Itachi). I say 50/50 considering the full knowledge.
That was an exhausted Mei while Tsunade was being completely healing herself with Byakugo. It's not a fair comparison.
Byakugo doesn't remove fatigue.
In mi opinion, a jutsu that heals a sword through someone's body and a magatama to the face, taking out her fatigue is not too crazy to think.
But ignoring that, Tsunade was less fatigated due to her healing damage while Mei and the others were not.
Lava doesn't cut, it melts.
Nobody's saying she is invicible, but Tsunade is a terrible match-up for Mei because she can pretty much tank every offense she has.
We have seen Katsuyu on two occasions: in Part 1 versus Orochimaru, and in Part 2 against Pain. Last time I checked, both Orochimaru and Pain are established Kage-level shinobi.
The slug survived Shinra Tensei X, Chibaku Tensei X and Naruto's eight-tailed form corrosive chakra X, and you think lava would be her doom?
Also, did you already take the time to realize how big Katsuyu is? Or how she can just split into thousand of smaller slugs to evade the torrents of lava? Not to mention Katsuyu herself can spit acid as well. Does Mei have a counter to that? No.
Sasuke was low on chakra, hence why his Susanoo wasn't at its best. Then again, that happened in a sealed room.
This particular scenario leaves plenty of space for both Tsunade and Katsuyu to get out of range of the acid; that's common sense.
To be fair, the slug was below Naruto's clothes. Naruto's clothes tanked CT and Kyuubi's corrosive cloack, not Katsuyu .
Yeah, that must be it. >___>
I know, and her lower half body can be melted away easily.
She won't be tanking getting melted, and she has never had such a feat of surviving a jutsu Amaterasu-like like lava.
Orochimaru with his hands sealed, which means no jutsu. And Pain didn't really target Katsuyu directly. I'm sure as hell Pain would have no problem putting Katsuyu down.
Yes she does. She can dodge it, and use her Water Dragon.
The acid mist, however, has a much bigger range, and thus can be Katsuyu and Tsunade's death.
No one has ever "gotten out of the range" of mist attack. Not Kakashi, not Madara, not no one.
Mizukage wins due to versatility and overally Ninjutsu>Taijutsu.
What does this have to do with anything? Tsunade doesn't start this match cut in half.
Doesn't meant she can't for a short period of time. In fact, every little feat we have of Tsunade when it comes to tanking points to that. She can pull it off, trust me.
Doesn't matter if Orochimaru had his arms sealed or not. Manda was there. Katsuyu survived.
Katsuyu survived Pain's two strongest techniques at all ranges possible! Do you need more proof than that? I'm pretty sure that the slug is way more resilient than Tsunade herself, so Mei isn't killing it.
A Water Dragon can be easily dodged at range... It won't put down Katsuyu, and I wonder what Mei would do when a thousand of small slugs are surrounding her, attacking from all angles.
If she gets her eyes off of Tsunade, she is dead. It's that easy.
Tell me why Mei didn't use the acid mist against Madara then? Because it was an open area, probably.
Aren't walls completely different from skin as well? It didn't stick to madara's fleshed version of susanoo, I think that's a much better representation of how it would fair against tsunade then an immobile wall.
how? Isn't lava lava? Doesn't the notion that lava will stick to tsunade come from the properties of real-life lava, which would apply to Roshi's lava as well.
She isn't in an enclosed environment she isn't going to take continuous damage from the acid, and I think I've given a good case that lava won't stick to her nearly as long as most are positing it does.
The attacks being of a different nature shouldn't matter since tsunade's byakugo heals from both attacks in the same way: by replacing dead cells with new ones. It's all about how much flesh damage each attack does to her.
Also, I think its worth pointing out that while the gokage was fighting Madara, they were all being constantly healed and getting their chakra replenished by tsunade, so Tsunade's actual amount of time she can use byakugo should be noticeably greater than in the manga, and Mei's stamina should be noticably less.
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