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The Truth of Tobi

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by xArunOwnsz, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. xArunOwnsz Martial Artist

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    This is another Tobi Identity Thread. Skip to TL;DR if you wish.

    I think I've figured out what the Kyuubi is going to show Naruto. He'll show him the true identity of Tobi and everything that happened on the night of Mito's extraction.

    Before that, let me declare a few things.
    • Mito Uzumaki lost control of the Nine Tails during childbirth (will be expanded upon)
    • This happened after the battle of the Valley of the End
    • Mito Uzumaki had the ability to sense Negative Emotions (Chakra Mode?)
    • The Uzumaki (from decent of the younger child) have immense vitality

    I believe Tobi is an Uzumaki. To be precise, Tobi is the child of Mito Uzumaki and the son of Hashirama Senju. Now, there is something that must be pointed out again. The Uzumaki and Senju are stated to both be related to the Sage of the Six Paths, or to be precise, his younger son. I believe by creating a child from both these roots you will have a very elite child capable of doing things similar to what the younger son did.

    Spoiler:
    X


    Mito Uzumaki's seal almost broke during childbirth -

    Spoiler:
    X


    Bottom left panel.
    I wonder what actually happened on that night? Mito went through Childbirth, but no baby? Throughout the entire manga, her baby isnt mentioned.

    Tobi knew the seal was at it's weakest during childbirth as he was a victim himself. Madara Uchiha survived the battle at the valley of the end and got a hold of their son. Through this child, he achieved the rinnegan.
    Let's add more clarity to my argument.

    Look what the Kyuubi said when he first encountered Tobi.

    Spoiler:
    X


    Recognition. The Kyuubi recognised Tobi, how?
    Because Tobi was in Mito's womb whilst the Kyuubi was sealed into her.

    Something that's happened recently -
    Spoiler:
    X


    The chain Tobi used to capture the tailed beast and regain control.
    You recognise it.

    Spoiler:
    X


    Contract Seals -
    Spoiler:
    X


    Tobi is able to summon the Kyuubi at will, as shown during the Nine Tailed attack on Konoha which was supposedly "random". But who else is supposed to be able to do this? Oh that's right. Madara Uchiha, who attempted to summon the Kyuubi during a battle with the 5 Kage's but failed as Naruto's still the Jinchuuriki.

    Now, it was Hashirama that took control of the Kyuubi through biological means. As we all know, genes can be passed down.. Etc etc. But more importantly, this ties in with the ability of the younger son which I mentioned previously. It may be through Biological means that the child of Mito and Hashirama can summon the Kyuubi; who knows how exactly Hashirama tamed the beast?

    Tobi on "No-One" -
    Spoiler:
    X


    Why would he say he is "No-One"? If you've followed well so far, you'll know what Im going to say. He wasnt named by Hashirama or Mito. There was no time for his parents to name him.

    Other points -
    • Tobi is always seen with a Sharingan or a Rinnegan active. A non-uchiha can never deactivate their sharingan.
    • With that amount of Vitality running through him, he could live for a long amount of time.
    • The original Tobi mask was orange and swirly in the same fashion of the whirlpool symbol.

    TL;DR
    Tobi is Mito's and Hashirama's Son.

    Currently repping + responding to pm's and others. I may continue to update this if people still want to keep an eye on it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  2. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

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    It's possible OP...

    Although, it should be noted that his first mask, according to flashbacks, was the "Tiger Stripe" mask.
     
  3. benstevens19 loves chicken

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    Some people have said that tobi could be the whirpool leader, look at the eyes of the whirpool leader and compare it to that of tobi when his masked was ripped off. If tobi was the son of hashirama he would be konoha nin and not a whirpool nin and would no longer rep them. There are many ways to connect tobi to the whirpool country and one of them is symbolism. Kishimoto has been known to communicate with the anime team and in the second to latest anime opening you can see that tobis mask is literally shown in the form of a whirlpool with one of the main characters at the center.
     
  4. Moon Fang Assassin

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    Another theory to add to book. Well done :).
     
  5. Swagger Wagon Snake Worst Girl

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    That guy is meant to be the Uzumaki clan head/elder.

    Uzumaki =/= Uzushio
    Unless of course they made up the entirety of the village, though I doubt that'd be the case
     
  6. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

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    wow,great theory!

    it would also explain how tobi can have the sharingan and use it,let alone the rinnegan and not suffer the same debilitating effects as kakashi.

    it was danzo who showed after all,explained by tobi himself, that the secret to being able to control so many sharingan as well as use so many jutsu(which would of exhausted if not killed kakashi) was the addition of senju DNA and that with both abilities (sharingan and senju DNA)that he could possibly control the kyuubi.

    and it also fits that even tho madara is the only known person able to summon and control theh kyuubi how tobi was able to do it as well.
     
  7. Talis Tobito believer

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    Another thing, the Uzumakis clan symbol looks exactly the same as the elder sons eyes.
     
  8. MYJC Cunning Linguist

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    Nice theory.

    I have no real objections other than the fact that it would be a little...anticlimactic for Tobi to turn out to be what is essentially a new character. And I don't really see why he's so secretive about his face at this point (now that everybody knows he's not Madara).
     
  9. NoSleep Member

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    So this basically means that Tobi is Tsunades Uncle...
     
  10. momma bravo Member

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    one of the best Tobi theories, hands down.

    at first i was hoping kishi would never reveal tobi's identity because all the possibilities seemed stupid, but this would be an extremely interesting twist.

    :hmm
     
  11. First Tsurugi M O T I V A T E D

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    The child of Hashirama and Mito was probably Tsunade's father/mother. They were never mentioned because they were simply not relevant.

    I doubt Madara stole their child away because Madara was thought to be dead by that time and there's no way he could kidnap Hashirama's own child unnoticed.

    Furthermore even if this were true, whose Sharingan is Tobi using, since this would mean he was not a natural Uchiha.
     
  12. Samehada The Tailess Bijuu

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    I stopped reading when it was stated that Tobi could be an Uzamaki. That would ruin everything for me :arg
     
  13. xArunOwnsz Martial Artist

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    More has been added.
    See the part above "Other Points" in the OP.


    Sorry, I'll fix that as soon as I get back on my laptop.

    Thanks for the feedback Moon Fang.

    That's actually a pretty valid point... If you dont mind I'll quote part of this post and write your name next to it in my OP?

    Thanks for the posts and feedback. Thanks to those that have repped.

    I dont know maybe one of the thousand in his lab.
    The rest is plausible but I will quote and counter argue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  14. Jeαnne :hurr

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    O_O i am fucking impressed.

    it could make a huge parallel between naruto and tobi!

    the whole "steal during childbirth" thing, and how fitting it would be for madara to steal hashirama's and mito's son?

    fuck, perhaps even the power that madara stole from hashirama was not even during their fight, but actually from their son.

    imo, even tobi's space/time stuff could be an uzumaki technique lol, what would make it clash directly with hiraishin itself.
     
  15. Crimson Flam3s Rampage Sage

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    One of the best and most plausibles theoryes I have seen in a while:quite well done and I wouln't be surprised if this became true:zaru

    I would also like to add that, this awesome theory of yours would explain the relationship between hashirama's powers with zetsu and the white goo that tobi is made out of:quite it's very plausible:argh
     
  16. Shikamaru Nara Laziest guy alive!

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    Sounds really good!:kthumb
    Would be interesting to see how Kishi explains that no one in the whole time wondered where that little child of Mito and Hashirama could be and some other statements that wouldn't fit.:lmao
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  17. MIMS Legendary Nin

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    This is the best theory I've read so far the past 6 months! +reps sir! :tomato
     
  18. Golden Circle .

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    What is this I don't even

    No. :facepalm

    Son of Hashirama? Tobi should be on the senju side in that case, which he clearly isn't.
     
  19. iNARUTOxHINATAi ◄ № ?? ♠ ᴹᴶ ♠ ? ►

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    TOBI'S Original MASK isn't the swirly MASK ( Chp. 500 page 14 )
     
  20. Leptirica causes storms in China

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    So... Tobi is Tsunade's father?

    Well, I can't say I haven't heard worse theories.
     
  21. tgm2x There is only despair.

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    This:quite
     
  22. Khazzar Hand of the King

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    First of all,this is a very nice theory. You used logic ,no doubt about it,however i belive you're wrong.

    Let's have another look on our Tobi,shall we?

    - When Tobi first started using his Douryoku,he constantly spammed his Sharingan jutsu. We've discovered that Sharingan can be properly used only by Uchiha themselves,not the other shinobi or clans.
    Kakashi is the proof of this even though he is also distantly related to the creators of the village,like Senju and Uzumaki. Senju clan dispersed into minor clans over time,no? So did their "genes" if i am not mistaken. This is something that happens in real life as well. Danzou could be another example as a chakra beast and powerful shinobi,his chakra was quickly drained while using the Sharingan,even though he had Hashirama's genes implanted as well.
    This implies Tobi is most likely an Uchiha.
    - We were told that "Rikoudo is the one that has both Uchiha and Senju genes combined. This excludes the Uzumaki clan,even though they were related to the Senju. They were chosen to be Bijuu hosts due to their remarkable lifespan,bodies and sealing knowledge. These reasons were the only mentioned thus far.
    Tobi is the second Rikoudo,as stated by himself. Why? Because he holds the eye power. Eye power alone secured his wellbeing,not body power,thus,he can't be an Uzumaki. He stole "Hashirama's" cells,not cells of an Uzumaki member.
    - Allthough Tobi admires the Rin'negan and it's powers,he never gave up his Sharingan eye. This is what an Uchiha would do. Tobi's sole purpose thus far is to prove the Rikoudo was wrong to chose the younger son over older one. He belives that peace can be achieved by sheer strenght and power,not love. He is more then confident in eye power alone and strongly belives none can stand in it's path.
    Tobi's ultimate goal is Mugen "Tsukuyomi",a power of the Uchiha clan. He plans to use the Rin'negan powers to gain the ultimate chakra,nothing more. He considers Rin'negan a "Tool" that is more suited for war,nothing more. Sharingan is what he considers to be "True power" of the Uchiha clan. And thus,he will ultimately use a Sharingan jutsu to achieve peace,not Rin'negan.


    Conclusion :
    This story is mainly focused on "Bonds". The strongest Bond in this series is that of brothers. Like Itachi and Sasuke,Naruto and Sasuke (Naruto views Sasuke as his brother),Madara and Izuna.
    Tobi is most likely Uchiha Izuna. Brother of a legend,an ideal,Uchiha Madara. He is as old as Madara,experienced as Madara,he shares the same power like him and most importantly - THE SAME GOAL.
     
  23. Escargon Madz

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    Tobi is Madara as Quirrell is Voldemort.

    Didnt Madara himself control the fox a long time ago? Maybe Tobi helped that time.
     
  24. Saturday Hello, Wherever You Are

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    Wow, I'm impressed.

    And I feel like a dumbass for not remembering that Kushina did the chain thing with the kyubi.
     
  25. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

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    the problems with your dissertationis that tobi himself called danzo a failed rikudo,which implies that he had both requirements,eye power and body power.

    tobi himself has both eye power and the body power of hashirama,which is what qualifies him as a rikudo,not the eye power alone.
    same goes for nagato,& madara

    just b/c tobi kept a sharingan doesn't nec.mean what you allude to,there could be a myriad of other reasons,such as: the precog recognition ability,the source of his warp ability,etc.

    perhaps he chose to keep a sharingan b/c unlike madara he is incapable of reverting his eyes from rinnegan to sharingan,and by taking both rinnegan he would of lost any and all abilites of sharingan

    unlike madara tobi doesn't seem to possess the ability to cycle his eyes from normal to sharinagn,to rinnegan and back.

    and we all know that is strong indication that he is either not uchiha or or not in his original or whole body.
     
  26. First Tsurugi M O T I V A T E D

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    Good post. I agree with everything.

    Presumably Danzou was a failed Rikudou because although he had both Uchiha and Senju parts integrated into him, he himself was neither a Senju nor an Uchiha, and so he could not wield the power properly.

    Tobi, being a true Uchiha, does not have this problem.

    That would still mean that keeping those Sharingan abilities are more important than having the Rinnegan, so that Sharingan is more important to Tobi than even the Rinnegan.

    The only thing it suggests is that he doesn't possess MS/EMS and the Rinnegan wasn't his own.
     
  27. bearzerger Major Cliff Allister McLane

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    So the son of the first hokage and father of Tsunade was a crazy powerful shinobi who defected and we never heard anything about him in 567 chapters? That sounds a tad too unrealistic to me.

    I too believe that there is definitely some connection between Tobi and the Uzumaki, but the Hashirama connection you draw sounds a bit far fetched to me. Not that there's anything which debunks your theory, but I'd say it be rather bad storytelling on Kishi's part to fail to forshadow what should have been one of the central historic figures of Konoha. If Tobi was Hashirama's son and Tsunade's father I would have expected atleast some throwaway line how he abandoned Konoha during the first shinobi war or how his betrayal caused or something like that. Something which made it clear that he was the greatest homemade trouble aside from Madara himself. Instead we've heard nothing about Hashirama's son and that doesn't make sense if he is to get such a great reveal.
     
  28. Laocoon Member

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    I wouldn't believe he's an uzumaki, given that he doesn't have red hair. You could argue naruto doesn't either, but I believe this was to emphasize his similarity and connection to minato.

    Tobi does not descend from any clan, but was created, probably by Madara. He also hasn't been shown to use "trademark" uchiha mangekyou/sharingan abilities like amaterasu or tsukiyomi, only space-time jutsu (which kakashi uses as well, hinting that non-uchiha get space-time jutsu from implanted sharingan).
     
  29. Time Expired Banned

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    Tsunade. *Darth Vader breathing sfx* I AM YOUR FATHER!

    Dum, dum, duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum!
     
  30. iamgenius1 Member

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    I must admit. Best theory ever....

    It is also not far fetched. It will be shocking to know for everybody. It means kishi left one important person of one generation intentionally unmentioned. Perfect candidate for Tobi.

    Kudos to you OP.
     
  31. tenrec Member

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    This is a nice theory, one I hadn't even considered yet. Wouldn't this make Tobi Tsunades dad if I'm not mistaken? So was he just a regular leaf nin makin babies, before he turned evil or what? Maybe laying his seed before abandoning the village?.... I think This makes a decent theory, although Izuna as Tobi is more likely imo. You definitely made some very good observations. It was a nice read so + rep.
     
  32. Vers New Member

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    Who said he is Tsunade's father?
     
  33. Closet Pervert Legendary Pervert

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    Tiger... Tiger Mizuki?!
     
  34. Udontard4ever zdjklvlsdnkvj

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    you're onto something there
     
  35. SaskeKun

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    Nice theory but I don't think that Tobi is an Uzumaki. It seems too unrealistic for me. How should Tobi know about the truth of Itachi when he is an Uzumaki? They certainly know each other very well. If I'm not mistaken, then Tobi helped Itachi to kill his clan? Or was this a theory? I don't know anymore lol

    Now the theory about the Sharingan: Itachi had also his Sharingan permanently active (or almost). Sasuke is also very often seen with his Sharingan active, so I guess this doesn't mean anything.

    Sorry for my bad english guys :D
     
  36. Fatback Banned

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    Kishi said we will know who Tobi is immediately after seeing his face..... The son of Hashirama and Mito as of yet does not fit that prerequisite. I liked your theory. It took a different direction and was pretty well thought out. That being said I dont agree with it one bit for the same reasons others pointed out.
     
  37. Escargon Madz

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    When did he say that? Proof?

    If Kishi reveals Tobi as future Sasuke :mad
    X
     
  38. OutlawJohn Spirit of the Free

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    Not sure if I agree, but very well put together. +reps sir!

    Those of you claiming that this can't be true because it would mean Tobi is Tsunade's father, I hope you realize it was never mentioned that Hashirama's penis stopped functioning after his fight with Madara.

    Is Madara's Ultimate Jutsu:

    X

    Is that how Tsunade is going to beat Edo Madara? She's going to be immune to his nutkicking?
     
  39. kardez Nagato Peace FTMFW!

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    loved everything you said before hand.

    but you missed the conclusion. the story is about Nindo. it was based off of Obito's nindo.
    Spoiler:
    X


    it was passed on from Obito>Kakashi>Naruto. which leads to Bonds, in why Naruto is going to save Sasuke, even if it will lead them to death. this is why Kakashi is there with Tobi in the manga now. he really wasnt needed unless Tobi is Obito. which is why Tobi is seen giving Kakashi advice on not to use a technique against him, also why he mentions Kakashi having "a good eye"
     
  40. PopoTime Devourer of Souls

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    where was it ever said Mito only had one child? Perhaps when Madara kidnapped the first, she had another one a few years later? the second being the father of Tsunade and Nawaki
     
  41. uchiha no senkō Uchiha's Flash

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    Very interesting theory and a good read! A lot of it makes sense too, Tobi's long life, never deactivating his eyes (thought Itachi never did either), him knowing about the seal being at it's weakest, etc. Why does Tobi use the Uchiha fan though?

    ^This does not make sense though, how could Madara get a hold of the child after the VOTE fight when the child was not even born yet? Tobi said he gained something during the battle and that was the purpose of fighting him. Kishi also implied that Madara stole Hashirama's DNA after the fight since we see it attached to part of Gedo Mazo and assume it's what awakened his Rinnegan.

    Also that would make Tobi Tsunade's dad (LOL), unless Hashirama had another son/daughter... but that means we haven't heard of two of his children somehow and now they suddenly get brought up? As much as I like this theory it doesn't seem plausible for Kishi to just make up a whole new back story for a character (Hashirama's kid(s)) we've never heard about this far into the Manga.

    Besides, all Senju/Uzumaki kids are good people :blinditachi

    We'll be able to find out if Tobi is in fact a Zetsu Clone of Madara once we hear Edo Madara's voice in the anime. If it ends up being a different voice actor then that theory will be scratched but so far I like that one more. Good theory though!
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  42. MinatoEMS Super Sayian Jinchuuriki

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    unless they thought the child had been killed in the fight
     
  43. MinatoEMS Super Sayian Jinchuuriki

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    Who voice acts characters in the animes prove nothing since they don't know the end game of the author. And tobi could wear the uchiha fan because he was trained by madara. Since we know madara didn't die and gained the rinnegan
     
  44. First Tsurugi M O T I V A T E D

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    The only indication of how many children Mito and Hashirama had together is when the Third Hokage and his wife speak of the seal weakening during childbirth. They refer to it as if it was a singular event.

    I think it's possible that after the seal almost broke after the first birth that they could have thought it too risky to have another child.

    Even then, the lack of clarity should be enough to discredit the theory. Tobi turning out to be the long lost son of Mito and Hashirama that we never knew existed would be a blatant asspull.

    What fight? Mito only bore a child after becoming a jinchuriki, after Shodai and Madara had their fight.
     
  45. uchiha no senkō Uchiha's Flash

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    if Tobi is Madara's clone then he would have the same voice actor, it's as simple as that. and Madara did die, that's why there's an Edo Madara going around :blinditachi

    do you really think Madara took on an apprentice...? :giogio
     
  46. Escargon Madz

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    Maybe Tobi himself got two faces due to DNA mixing and got a voice for himself?
     
  47. Forces Proud fanboy of SusumuHirasawa

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    You thought this well! Very interesting!
     
  48. Penance Your best...

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    Hm...We'll see...:LOS
     
  49. Corrupt Shinobi Bushido

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    Your theory is amazing. One thing though, the baby that Hashirama and Mito had could just be Tsunade's Father. Tsunade is known to be the grandaughter of the First Hokage afterall.
     
  50. Corrupt Shinobi Bushido

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    Hashirama has black hair, Tobi has black hair. Aka Naruto has Yellow hair, Minato has Yellow Hair.
     

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