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The Official Narusaku/SasuSaku/Naruhina Debate Thread! (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki Archives' started by halfhearted, Aug 6, 2008.

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  1. halfhearted The gaze into the sun Advisor

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    Stay out of the thread if you are not here to debate!
    There is a thread where people with different pairing preferences can go and discuss other issues called the Asylum: X or there is also the Pairing Peace FC. Also, you will no longer have to tag manga. This thread is supposed to be based on the manga canon. Still be aware of rule #5 regarding latest chapters spoilers.


    Rules


    1. This thread is for debating about NaruHina, NaruSaku, and SasuSaku only.

    Do not bring up other pairings in here (not even NaruSasu/SasuNaru).

    Do not bring up fanfiction in here.

    Do not bring up fanart in here.

    Do not bring up fillers in here.

    Do not bring up theories in here.

    Do not use this thread as your own soapbox.

    Do not double post or triple post unless your argument doesn't fit in one post.

    The canon evidence is the only thing that matters so stick to that when debating.

    X


    X

    2. Spamming is not tolerated

    This includes responses like the following:

    "*insert spam here*"

    "On-topic: Sakura :LOS"

    "I think it will be Tonton. :LOS"

    "This will be interesting..."



    Also mentions of orgies derail the thread so we can't allow that. :(

    If we see any of this your posts will be deleted and if we notice a habit we will slash your post count. :pek

    Do not link to essays or any other NF thread links in your reply to posts, if you have something to say in response to another post, please post your thoughts, but just no one-liners. Put some depth into your posts.

    3. No flaming

    This is really a no brainer. Attack the argument, not the person. If we see this you will be banned. If you continue to repeat the actions you will probably just be section banned from the HoU for a long time.

    This also includes attacking an entire fandom for their preference.

    The same goes for anyone who is trolling.

    4. Any and all threads made on this subject from here on out will be merged with this one, locked, recycled and/or trashed depending on the situation.

    This means do not create another thread on the matter. This will make for a very annoyed mod. Some may be nice and others may be ruthless depending on who sees the other thread. :vegetant

    5. Any spoilers from Telegrams that are posted in here before the Monday after chapter release is automatic 1 day ban.This includes hinting.


    This is the first warning for everyone. Failure to adhere to these rules will result in unfavorable punishments.

    Alright, this thread and each incarnation shall be archived after every 100 pages. Things always seem to degrade more frequently after a certain point. It also helps for other things that I won't mention. If this thread gets spammed again, it might be trashed again before it reaches 100 pages.

    Also since the people can't seem to play nicely you will just be outright banned if we see your nonsense. Each ban will be longer than the last until people get the freaking point.

    Have at it.


    Archived threads:

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    IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH A POST REPORT IT!
     
  2. NarutoIzDaMan The legacy lives on

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    Spoiler:
    It crossed my mind today that this thread should also add Sasukarin to the mix. While Naruto and Sakura have spent a lot of time together, Karin also has spent time with Sasuke (although to a much lesser degree than Narusaku). Nevertheless, I'm amazed no one has pointed out that even if Sakura is still interested in Sasuke the way she used to (highly unlikely), she would have Karin as her competition. It would be just like Sakura vs Ino in part 1. Foreseeing that both teams will eventually meet/clash, I can see Sakura seeing Karin as her old former self (immature, clingy, and obsessed). This just adds to my belief of why Sasusaku is the most least likely out of all the possible parings to happen at this point while Narusaku is the most likely.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  3. Forlong Rating: Awesome

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    I don't think so. It gets complicated enough with three pairings. Really it's only two, because we haven't heard from any SasuSaku shippers at all, as far as I can recall.

    Spoiler:
    I still can't get over how the NaruHina shippers had to eat their own words. I told them how Naruto felt about Hinata would not be addressed anytime soon, certainly not right when he returned. It's going to be dragged out for a lo-o-o-ong time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  4. Afalstein Mountain Hermit

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    Spoiler:
    Agreed about SasuKarin. There are too many already, and really we haven't seen much interaction between them.

    Spoiler:
    And yes, Forlong you are right about eating words. I can't deny I was very disappointed by the arrival of Naruto at the village. To be fair, though, those that said Hinata would remain unimportant and that she was essentially dead after Pain's bit had to eat their words also.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  5. Tyrannos Living a Life

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    Spoiler:
    And how would those people be eating their words, if they were right?

    Spoiler:
    Nothing happened since Hinata's confession.

    Naruto didn't talk to Hinata, nor shown signs of concern for her before his final confrontation with Pain.

    But as soon as Naruto returns to the village in victory, instead of Hinata greeting him, it was Sakura. On top of it, she gave him a hug (and a possible kiss on the cheek). Showing the first real signs of anykind of real affection from her with Naruto.

    Which goes nicely with what Shikaku said to Shikamaru regarding how women are gentle to the ones they love. (In which was heavily laughed at by those opposed to the NaruSaku fandom. :lmao)

    All while Hinata watched with approval. (So because she was there, didn't make her "important").
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  6. santanico don't call me mom

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    Spoiler:

    You mean watched in approval of Naruto being acknowledged?

    Because that's how I saw it. But I guess it could be interpreted in different ways by many.

    Spoiler:
    Is that one of your theories? I don't remember Kishi including a "kiss" in that chapter.


    Spoiler:
    I beg to differ, naruto mentioned and thought about her after his kyuubi-rage moment :amuse
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  7. Tyrannos Living a Life

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    Spoiler:
    But it doesn't mean Hinata's more important in that moment than the others who were also acknowledging Naruto.


    Spoiler:
    Making this personal aren't you? Especially over a "possible" kiss? :lmao

    Either way, Sakura was hugging Naruto and NOT Hinata-hime. :p


    Spoiler:
    Convenient that you purposely ignore the rest of what I said. :notrust

    Notice I said "BEFORE"? So I wasn't purposely ignoring the moments Naruto is thinking of Hinata.

    And BTW, last I checked Naruto was concerned because he went Kyuubi next to her and thinking he tore her a new one. Not him thinking about out of "love". :zaru
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
  8. Forum Troll For the lulz.

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    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Including the rest of the villagers. She was likely singled out because she was the last person he saw before going Kyuubi.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  9. AuxunauxiaNoname 螺旋派侠客

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    Spoiler:
    I think it was definitely more important that Kishimoto showed that Naruto was acknowledged by his village ABOVE any depiction of a love triangle. Love and romance... is for shojou manga... this is a shonen manga. Do guys care about love? Well of course they do, it's just that in terms of shonen manga, things like pride and self-worth are placed above romance... as well as it should, for guys and for girls really.

    I don't see why Hinata watching in approval of Sakura hugging Naruto indicates anything about her affection for Naruto. She's happy about him being acknowledged by his peers, and at the moment despite all pairing debates that is all that these three, are... they're peers. Maybe we'll call them friends. Sakura and Naruto are definitely friends, I would think... Naruto and Hinata?

    Would you say that Naruto and Hinata are friends? I would say they have a mutual respect of cohorts relationship. And note, respect, not love. Naruto respected Hinata's perseverance during the chuunin exams. Hinata of course, respects and extremely admires Naruto's same perseverance and generally sunny disposition and ability to overcome odds. They get along, and he certainly hasn't shown any sign of acute dislike... aside from calling her wierd, but then he said he liked that... lol

    Would you say that Naruto and Sakura are friends? Well with or without the fillers, this would be a yes. They have been on the same team through many trials and tribulations. They have come to some sort of understanding of each other, or at least a deeper understanding than before when they started out. They care about each other and support each other through goals. This is definitely a friend relationship. Is it more than that? Well Sakura certainly appreciates that Naruto thinks of her as a girl to some extent. Whether that appreciation extends to a desire for a more personal relationship is still uncertain. She might be heading towards that direction...

    From the standpoint of evidence from the manga, it seems to currently stand at this: Naruto and Sakura... friends, might be more if developed further. Naruto and Hinata... friendly associates who respect each other as ninja and in terms of one party admires a lot.

    From my standpoint, in terms of a shonen manga kind of romantic relationship, you should expect it to some degree, increase the feeling of pride, and general self-worth of the individuals participating.

    Naruto would benefit Hinata. She looks up to him, and respects his thoughts and opinions. In a relationship he would encourage her to be more assertive and remain steady on decisions, like he did during the chuunin exams. In the future, if Hinata does become a true head of the Hyuuga clan, she'll need someone like Naruto who encourages her to stick to what she believes and supports her in the face of opposition. He'd be real gung-ho about it too. Also, from what I can see, she needs protection more than Sakura. She's a good ninja, don't get me wrong, but she didn't get that humongous jump from a rather pathetic girly-girl ninja to this awesome super-powered medical nin. :sweatdrop

    From the standpoint of evidence from the manga, it seems to currently stand at this: Naruto and Sakura... friends, might be more if developed further. Naruto and Hinata... friendly associates who respect each other as ninja and in terms of one party admires a lot. Might become more if Naruto comes to reciprocate these feelings of admiration and act on them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  10. Crackers asianophile

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    Spoiler:
    ... There's nothing intimate about it?


    When has Sakura ever openly shown affection for Naruto? You don't have to see it as someting romantic, but to say it was not intimate on any kind of level is, in my honest opinion, fucking stupid.

    Don't confuse intimacy with romance, because they are NOT the same thing.

    It's common knowledge - or it should be, anyway - that open displays of physical affections aren't very common in Japan. You might ask why, and I'll simply tell you because it's intimate, especially when two people of opposite genders do it.

    That's why everyone in the background is caught by surprise when Sakura hugs Naruto. It's not common, and it's quite a personal moment between them.


    Shikaku was likely referencing his wife as an example, so given the context of he speech, no, his words don't apply to Hinata.

    X

    She isn't rough or tough to her interest. She's passive and accepting. She doesn't scold him or speak her mind about his embarrassing behavior. Or, she likely wouldn't.

    On the other hand, Sakura has the qualities of a "tsundere". It's debatable whether or not she is one, but she shares the common traits of one nonetheless. She's often very tough on Naruto, but she has her moments in which she's "gentle" with him. The most recent manga chapter is a fairly good example. Like I said, though, you can interpret that as you wish.

    ... Why isn't it a mutual benefit?

    ... Hinata is a kunoichi. She has the greatest potential of becoming something great simply because of the family she's from. Just because she has a rathe submissive and passive personality doesn't mean she'll be a damself in her own inflicted distress or any other kind of distress for long. Give her a chance to develop some, to prove herself some, and I'm sure that lack of faith she has in her abilities will be transformed into something akin to arrogance. Of course, this is all speculation, so this can probably be dismissed. It just bothered me.

    Also, how can one initiate a romantic reationship by reciprocating admiraton?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
  11. Afalstein Mountain Hermit

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    @AuxunauxiaNoname

    Not going to copy the whole of your post, but excellent stuff. I agree with most of what you said and consider your appraisal of the relationships to be accurate. The one amendment I have is that I think Hinata loves Naruto (or at the very least thinks she loves Naruto). But that is, perhaps, a minor point.

    @CNets

    I think you're misunderstanding KittenLou's use of the word "intimate." But I'll have to wait for a response to be sure, I suppose.



    Spoiler:
    Yes and no. I'm not going to pretend the moment isn't important, but I don't think it's nearly as important as you're making it to be.

    First of all, although it's undeniably more affection than Sakura has ever shown Naruto, it's not exactly a personal moment. It's much more communal, the entire village is there. Now I'm not saying that Sakura is hugging him "on behalf of the village" but I am saying that the hug fits more generally in the "acknowledged by everyone" goal of Naruto.

    Sakura has been the harshest of Naruto's critics among the Konoha 11. Granted, she's also been a freind who has trust in Naruto, but she's harder on him than any of the others. Even here, she punches him for being a reckless fool. But this is the moment when she openly shows gratitude.

    See, if this was meant as such a personal moment, I'd expect some close-ups of Naruto and Sakura (aside from the hug itself). Maybe a few thought bubbles showing Naruto's surprise. But it's followed by pictures of everyone from the village. It's put in a much more communal as opposed to intimate setting.
     
  12. Kenshin37 Member

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    Naruto & Hinata Payoff

    Spoiler:
    Ah! Anime romances. They're always filled with opening thunder that amounts to nothing. That's what makes them frankly frustrating to read sometimes. Naruto and Hinata are definitely up there for well written romantic set ups that seem to be dropped several pages later. The Naruto vs Negi build up starts with Naruto holding up a fist full of Hinata's blood. They have a moment together before the big fight but she's doesn't actually get to witness Naruto's victory. Naruto and Negi have a profound moment together after the battle but Hinata, who was the catalyst is all but left out. He scans the crowd for her but they don't share a after moment together,not even a look, that closes the whole thing out. Instead it's on to the next story thread. The Pain fight was a real let down. Again the set up is perfect. Hinata dives into the fray to defend the man she loves and finally confesses her feelings for him. Naruto upon believing she is killed goes six tails. This isn't a gradual tansformation but an instant explosion of rage. Naruto has a moment when resealed that he thinks of Hinata but then it's back to main story line. It was set up so beautifully down to the paper roses that Konan presents to Naruto when the battle ends. Yet what happens? Naruto returns to Konoha( Flowers now missing),Sees that Hinata is alive, and Nothing! He has a little moment with Sakura but even she makes the statement aloud when trying to save her life the Hinata is in love with Naruto. I just personally feel that this is the one instance where the writing(which is brilliant) falls short and I was very dissapointed by it. Naruto returns triumphantly as the hero of Konoha, finally aknowledged by all as a great ninja yet the person who aknowledged him before anyone else, has always believed in him, who joined in the battle when everyone else took cover, and almost died for him is left as a face in the crowd. What I would have liked to have seen instead of Sakura running out to Naruto is Sakura lead Hinata up to Naruto so he could see she was alive, Naruto give her the bouquet that Konan gave to him, and let them have a moment together at the end that matches the moment on the battlefield with Pain. In fact Naruto should have planted a kiss on her but that's just me.
    Almost all the relationships in "Naruto" are mirror reflections of other relationships. Naruto, Sakura, & Sasuke are the similar to those of the Sannin. The threads get even deeper. Naruto is both Jiraiya and Tsunade's little brother. Naruto's adopted siblings are Sakura & Sasuke. Naruto and Sakura's relationship is one of a brother and a more mature sister. When it comes to Sakura & Sasuke I have to wonder if there is something still untold about Tsunade and Orochimaru's relationship to one another. So where does Hinata fit in to the web of reflections. Though she has only been shown briefly there is a character that stands out, Uzumaki Kushina. Kushina is said to have been a Tomboy when she was young so she was akward like Hinata but in a different way. They were both late bloomers. She also appears to have been an incredibly gentle person. If Naruto & Sakura's relationship is a reflection of Jiraiya & Tsunade then perhaps Naruto & Hinata could be that of Naruto's father and mother. That's alot of speculation but it would make for a great story line.
    To close let me just say if a girl as cute as Hinata was to profess her love for me while defending my life I would be her's no doubt in my mind. I know from experience how hard it is to find someone who believes in you with all their heart. I'm still looking for my Hinata. Naruto has found his and I wish Kishimoto Masashi would finally let him have her.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2009
  13. Crackers asianophile

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    Just for the hell of it, I'm going to spoiler tag this entire post because I'm tired of having to go back and edit it because I forget to spoiler some segments. :argh

    DON'T FORGET TO SPOILER THE SPOILERS!!! :argh
    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:
    I like how you just prove my statement by contradicting yourself. Intimacy is an expression of closeness, and to some extent vulnerability from closeness. It's a personal trait shared between people. Was the hug necessarily romantic? No, it was not. However, that doesn't make it any less intimate.


    Spoiler:
    I think you should take a look at the panel Sakura actually embraces him. He, along with everyone else around them, is caught off guard by the act.


    Wtf?? SEX?? When, where did I so much as reference or mention sexual relations or interactions? I didn't.

    Sure, sex can be intimate, but that doesn't mean intimacy is sex. As you probably well know, if this were the case, then sexual assaults likely wouldn't exist. :zaru

    Here are various different definitions on what intimacy is:
    As you can see, the general gist of these definitions is "closeness". Notice how one of the examples given (the first, in fact) is "intimate friend"? You don't have to be romantically or sexually involved with another individual to be intimate with them on some kind of level.



    Once again, you aren't reading the context of the word you're trying to use as an argument against me. The actual word used in the translation was "rough". When has Hinata ever been "rough" with anyone save herself?

    Also, why the hell are you making the assumption that I don't think Hinata is strong? Sure, she's tough. That doesn't mean she fits into the context of the speech, though. The individuals Shikamaru had in mind when he mentioned women were Ino and Sakura; girls who can be misleading with false kindness or who don't let other men get away with things. His own mother is this type of woman, and his father mentions that even the "roughest woman is tender to the man she loves". Sakura has been shown to rough with Naruto, but she also has her moments in which she is "tender" toward him.

    I'd also like to add that Sakura isn't "tough" or "rough" with other people like she is with Naruto. She scolds other characters, but Naruto is the only one who gets the short end of the stick with a punch to the face. Yeah, she treats everyone about the same alright. :zaru

    Anyway, I'm through with this piece of info. Time to move on to something else.

    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to lie... I find it really hard to take this statement seriously.

    Sakura and Naruto have just as much, if not more, in common than Hinata and Naruto have, and it's shown in their interaction. They have the strongest possible bond in the story aside from Naruto and Sasuke. Your statement contradicts itself.

    Haha, I think you might have understood it pretty well.

    Spoiler:
    It's the very fact that Sakura feels compelled to physically touch Naruto in such a way that makes it such a pivotal moment in their relationship. They started out as a like-hate relationship that eventually grew into something more that developed into a close companionship that blossomed into something... a little more. Is it love? No, but that doesn't mean it can't develop into such with more development.

    Also, I thought I'd mention how I honestly don't see why or how Sakura represents everyone in the village with a hug when she is one of the most important people to Naruto in the village. I see Team Gai and the original rookie 9 as more befitting of this, since it took them much longer to fully acknowledge Naruto the way Team 7 did. Obviously, Hinata remains the only exception to this.

    I can understand the argument being something along the lines of "it's just Sakura's way of showing her recognition of Naruto", but to compare that to the acknowledgement of an entire village when she was one of the first few who came to accept and acknowledge the influence Naruto had over her and his power...? I find that stretching it a bit, to be completely honest.


    Spoiler:

    Again, you're missing the point that physical displays of affection aren't very common in Asian culture. Like I said before, it's the very fact that Sakura has the urge, and thus acts on that urge, to touch Naruto and embrace him that makes their relationship into something more than what many people try to interpret it. All of this time, there has been an invisible physical barrier between the two of them and it's shattered in an instant with a hug. Hugs in themselves are acts of intimacy. They're shared between offspring and parent, between lovers, siblings, and friends. While the level of intimacy depends on the relationship the members giving/receiving the hug, that doesn't make it any less intimate... if that makes any sense at all.
     
  14. Elphaba Active Member

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    Oh noes, why did I let myself post in here? :argh

    Spoiler:
    Keep in mind that not every development has to occur one after the other. For example, let's flash all the way back to the Chuunin exams; it took nearly twenty chapters for Naruto to run into Hinata again after their moment during the Preliminaries, and then the significant Proud Failure scene commenced. That also took place over a month manga-time. Mind you, I acknowledge that this scenario is a tad different, but it goes to show that Kishi will take his sweet time in dealing with certain matters. I am not going to count 437 as the "start" button for this count-up, of sorts, because Hinata was incapacitated and Naruto was in the midst of battle... thus, I'll mark chapter 450 as the start. Then, it has only been three complete chapters so far, and now that the Sauce has been mentioned, I am realistic enough to not expect any romance (from any side) for a while. That is, of course, unless Kishi decides to throw another curveball from left field like he did with chapter 437.

    Also, touching lightly upon the "Sakura hugged Naruto and not Hinata" (I am treadding lightly for I know my interpretation will differ greatly from others), let us take into account their personalities and the situation at hand. If Hinata had run up and hug Naruto, we would be presented with an awkward situation in two ways: For one, Hinata is an introvert whereas Sakura is an extrovert, that much we know. That alone would be enough to explain her actions, or lack thereof. And second, Hinata has just confessed her love in what was probably under an hour or two manga-time; after saying her piece, if she were to suddenly be all over Naruto in front of everyone she might potentially be overstepping her boundries, not knowing how Naruto feels about all this. Had Hinata hugged him in an explicitly romantic manner with such an audience, Naruto, if he did not feel anything but positive in regards to Hinata's confession, would be put in a very uncomfortable and difficult situation of having to turn her down. Instead, we have NO reaction from Naruto outside of his very clear reaction in 437 and further reaction in 441. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that Kishi will have Naruto address Hinata, but it will most likely not be soon and the moment will be between the two of them, which is the way 80% of their moments have commenced.

    "Watching with approval" is a tricky way to put it. I mean, clearly she was watching with approval, but I believe it is for the fact that Naruto was finally gaining the recognition he so deserved for so very long. She always saw that in him, and finally the entire village did, as well. Kishi has proven to be pretty explicit when he wants to be (a chapter titled "Confession" with the contents dedicated completely to Hinata and her expressing her feelings for Naruto, as well as two "I love you"'s from complimentary pairings is about as explicit as it gets romantically, in Shounen no less), and there was no overt emphasis placed on the hug in 450. No reaction/reciprocation from Naruto, no immediate follow up, no thoughts from Sakura, Hinata or Naruto that might shed light on the situation... until/if we see that, I'll sit kindly on my own opinion... as you will as well, I am sure. :wink
     
  15. Afalstein Mountain Hermit

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    Cool. Hadn't considered that, actually, but it works very well in terms of character.
    Spoiler:
    Sakura obviously would feel more comfortable with the hug because she knows how she stands there. Though obviously this doesn't take away KittenLou's point about hugging in Japanese culture, it does explain partly why Kishi did what he did.


    Hm. Interesting. Like you say, Sakura is definitely one of the more important people to Naruto. Not going to argue that point. I still consider her one of the harshest critics, though. Yes, she's acknowledged his power for a while now, but the last time she told him was back in Part I, when he left to retrieve Sasuke. He failed that one (obviously), and she was let down. I think I can say that safely.

    Now, that was a long time ago, and she's pretty much over it, but it's been difficult. She still obviously impressed by his level of power and his dedication, but she's never really told him so. Which, considering her forward nature, is somewhat surprising.
    Spoiler:

    I do see what you're saying about the hug, though. Not very familiar with Japan, must say, but I can see how it's an important consideration. Obviously the hug was meant to be important and stirring. But I'd still think it would be made a more personal moment instead of zooming out to show the village. Especially if it's such an intimate thing as you say (oh, and I'm glad I was correct about that.) ;-p
     
  16. Elphaba Active Member

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    Spoiler:
    Perhaps, but I'll call apples and oranges. Hinata also used the second highest term for the word "love" in her confession, the highest being a word reserved solely for married couples and the most dramatic of Shoujou romances. I just can't take the gesture too seriously (in referance to romance) because of the lack of emphasis, on Naruto's part especially. For someone who's supposedly had a crush on Sakura for a while, the lack of reaction, thoughts or immediate follow-up it just doesn't add up for now, so I'll wait it out.

    Of course, that's not to speak for Kishi in what the hug was supposed to or not supposed to mean, I'm just gathering my own opinion based off of observation and how these type of scenarios usually play out when aiming for one atmosphere over the other.
     
  17. NarutoIzDaMan The legacy lives on

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    Spoiler:
    To me Hinata's "I love you" (in my opinion) was more like a "thank you for being my source of inspiration", nothing more. Naruto has never paid her any special attention, certainly not any different from the attention that he gives to all the other Konoha 9 rookies. In her deluded mind she probably does think that she "loves" him because she simply doesn't pay any attention to anyone else but him, from afar. Let's try to parallel reality with the manga for a second - in the real world the best word to describe Hinata's behavior and herself is simply a stalker. I know it sounds harsh but what else can you really call her. Stalkers aren't always necessarily bad people but the word does have a negative aspect to it because it's just not normal human behavior. I don't hate Hinata as a character because personally I think she is sweet, but logically she just doesn't seem to have much of a chance with Naruto. I know people are gonna say the possibility is still there and I agree with that but compared to the other popular pairing (Narusaku), which has had a lot of undeniably mutual moments, I just don't see how the Naruhina pairing can compete with that.
     
  18. Tyrannos Living a Life

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    Of course not all development happens immediately after a chapter. That's why I (and many other NaruSaku's) believe that Chapter 297 and Chapter 343's cliffhanger moments between Naruto and Sakura are simply delayed to a towards the end of the manga when things start to click.

    But the funny thing is, Naruto's moments with Hinata are always involved with a temporary situation that's quickly resolved.

    Chuunin Test 1: Hinata presents a cheating opportunity for Naruto. Which leads to him promptly rejecting her offer, and leads to the right answer on his own.

    Chuunin Prelims: Neji pushing around Hinata strikes a personal chord with Naruto and it leads to their confrontation. Then Neji's redemption.

    Spoiler: And then
    Hinata jumping in "saving" Naruto. Which was nothing but a plot tool to get Naruto to go Kyuubi, in which brings the reunion between Father and Son, and the redemption of Pain.


    And on top of that, Naruto still has no affection for Hinata what so ever. :zaru

    Spoiler: With Hinata
    If Hinata was still shy, then she would not have been crying in front of everyone, now would she? :p

    Hinata's confession was supposed to bring her out of her shell, so that means she could've easily hugged Naruto.


    Spoiler: Naruto's Feelings
    Hinata obviously isn't that important to Naruto as people claim to be. Because after Katsuyu told him she was okay and he confirmed it, that was it. Hinata no longer crossed his mind, it was all about avenging Jiraiya. (In short: Jiraiya > Hinata)


    Frankly, Naruto's got much more important things than Hinata. I can name a dozen things more important to Naruto than her. So if you want to believe Hinata has greater importance than these things, then so be it. But I guarantee you it's not going to lead to NaruHina.
     
  19. mystic868 Member

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    Exactly. IMO that "thank you" was the sign she finally matured and Naruto was for her source of strengh and inspiration so now she's ready to lead her clan.

    About the hug - well romantic or no, the last person ever hugged by Sakura was Sasuke. She's extrovert but it doesn't mean she's expressing all her feelings all the time. Sometimes she's storing it deep inside especially memories about Sasuke. Also IMO lack of the conversation between Naruto and Hinata after his return and instead - conversation with Sakura can be hint for sth more between them. However he should at least thanks Hinata for saving his butt.

    Naruto and Sakura's mutual feelings are growing, she's admiring him more and he becomes more responsible and less dummy. When Sasuke will return to Konoha and they will meet, it can be the catalyst for NS and it can push it forward greatly.
     
  20. Elphaba Active Member

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    Fair enough, but if that's the case then every single Big 3 couple is waiting for follow up and/or resolution of some kind that has happened in the past--NaruHina's just happens to be the most recent of the three.

    Um, just like every single other arc that has ever been in this manga, discluding certain core, chronic issues such as Sasuke. Just because it was resolved doesn't mean you can cheapen what occured.

    Unfortunately for you, that's not exactly the way it went down. You see, Naruto was quite happy to get that offer and wondered why Hinata would do such a thing for him (which almost led to her explaining her feelings at the time, but she wasn't prepared and came up with a cheap excuse instead), and he only turned down her offer when he acknowledged that Hinata would get in trouble herself, as well as his own teammates. Naruto finding the correct answer in the end doesn't have anything to do with he and Hinata--simply following the story's theme of "If you work hard you can accomplish anything."

    Yes, it undoubtedly struck a personal chord, but Naruto is not selfish enough to only defend Hinata because it affected him personally. He saw this kind girl being verbally and physically tormented by her cousin, and Naruto was not prepared to stand by and let something so cruel slide.

    Spoiler:
    True, it did have a domino effect on other events, but that doesn't mean it was a plot device for those to happen alone. Kishi could have used other characters or other scenarios to cause Naruto to lose it--instead, he has Hinata confess her love.
    Also, for being a "plot device" for the Minato/Naruto reunion, not much further emphasis has been placed on the meeting. We may have yet to see a clearer reaction from Naruto regarding Hinata, yes, but at least she has clearly been picked out of the crowd (as seen in 450) as opposed to just melting away.


    Slow down, Sea Biscuit. No, we don't know if he has/might have romantic feelings for her YET, but his overall behavior with her has been nothing but kind and soft--there has been absolutely no evidence that Naruto feels anything but positive feelings towards Hinata, feelings that could potentially lead to/be romantic.

    Also, there's the "But a person like you... I really like!" :wink

    Spoiler:
    What, like anyone was looking at her? Also, remember back in 441, where the group was smaller and more intimate, Hinata clearly hid her tears from view. Crying =/= outgoing.


    Spoiler:
    She DID come out of her shell, but that doesn't give her the right to potentially cross the line and force her affection on Naruto regardless of how he might feel. Confessions don't work like that. Now that Hinata has explained her feelings, the ball is in Naruto's court.


    Spoiler:
    Not that important? Well then, allow me to relay his feelings in chapter 437-441 ALONE:
    ~ screaming at Hinata to get away
    ~ screaming at Pain to not stab her
    ~ going KN6->8 when she was stabbed
    ~ having an emotional breakdown inside the Kyuubi, part of which was attributed to Hinata's condition
    ~ remembering Hinata broken on the ground almost immediately after recovering
    ~ gripping his heart and searching for her life force
    ~ gripping his heart tighter when he DID sense it, only to have it verbally confirmed by Katsuyu
    ~ trembling/crying and saying "Thank god, thank god," flashing immediately (in the exact same panel strip) to a fallen Hinata, bleeding to death and still thinking about Naruto.

    All we need now is a civilized and and calmer meeting between the two to hear more about his feelings. And you also can't be so quick to say "it was all about avenging Jiraiya." Yes, that was a HUGE reason, but it was never explicitly stated--instead, we have Naruto saying how he hated Nagato and shouldn't be able to forgive him for what he's done. After saying that, he didn't immediately flash to Jiraiya to indicate that is what he was referring to. Naruto only flashed to Jiraiya later because he and Nagato were bonded by having the same teacher, and it was also Jiraiya's book that helped Naruto with his answer. Sorry, but Naruto hated Nagato for a number of reasons: Jiraiya, Hinata, the village, etc.

    Also, Jiraiya/Sasuke > just about everybody. :wha


    Spoiler:
    Well, don't make false claims, because I don't think that. Why? Romance has and will always take a backseat to other issues in the manga, especially now that the Sauce has made his return. You talk as though NaruHina fans expect things to go down like, "Sasuke, what the hell are you doing in the Akatsuki!? I thought you were our frie--shit, wait a second! What the hell am I talking about? Screw you, Sasuke, I've gotta go take Hinata on a ramen date! See you cool cats later... oh, and have fun with Danzou and the Cloud who all want to kill you!" :facepalm Priorities, my friend, priorities. Naruto will get to Hinata in due time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  21. Forlong Rating: Awesome

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    Spoiler:
    This is not a romantic comedy. That would have been to crappy for words. Face facts: Hinata will never be important to the plot.

    Also, I wonder if you'd feel that way if this happenned to Sakura instead...


    Spoiler:
    Not this arguement again! :notrust

    Okay, the Toad Prophet...thing said that Jiraiya would become a pervert beyond equal, so Naruto is not meant to mirror him. And after Jiraiya died, we saw a hint that Tsunade might have loved him, so what does that do to your theory?


    Spoiler:
    You're grasping at smoke here. Kushina and Hinata have nothing in common. Hinata was no late bloomer! Where did you get that twisted logic? If you can compare Kushina to anyone Naruto knows, Sakura is more like her than anyone else. However, in either case, the main problem is that Kushina only made one appearance!
    :facepalm


    Spoiler:
    How can Naruto and Hinata's relationship reflect one we've NEVER SEEN?


    Spoiler:
    Forgetting that you barely know her and are interested in someone else?


    ZARU!:zaru

    SWEET! I started the second page!
     
  22. Elphaba Active Member

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    So? Part I, Part II, hypothetical Part III, it's all the same manga written by the same author, and Kishi clearly remembers things that he wrote back then. Try again.

    Also, at this very moment all of the Big 3 can be considered "one-sided." We've had hints suggesting otherwise or potentially/soon-to-be otherwise, of course, but that's all.

    Wait, so that's what it takes for you? Only Sakura->Sasuke and
    Spoiler:
    Hinata->Naruto
    have been verbally confirmed by an "I love you." No, Naruto has not said he loved her nor do I think he does at this point in time, but no other love has been confirmed outside of those I listed above. There has been romance in this series to debate love from all ends outside of the two confirmations we've had.

    Meh, interpretations, my friend. I don't think it was meant to be romantic from him either, but Hinata's reaction clearly showed that it could swing that way.
     
  23. Tyrannos Living a Life

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    Well of course, the pairings all boil down to who requits.

    Sasuke requiting Sakura's feelings.
    Sakura requitting Naruto's feelings.
    Naruto requitting Hinata's feelings.

    Really, it all hinges on Sakura's decision. Naruto or Sasuke?

    After all, even what's happened, Naruto still has no sign of anykind of affection for Hinata. So I honestly doubt NaruHina is going to realistically happen, unless Kishimoto throws her together with him in the end, with no real development.

    Spoiler: BTW Recent?
    Last I checked, that was Sakura hugging Naruto, while Hinata was smiling in approval. :LOS


    Did you just say Naruto's moments with Hinata were "resolved"?

    Because that's the reality of the situation. :wink

    Uh huh, he was skeptical of why Hinata was helping him. Then he rejected her offer. Just like I previously said.

    And the theme wasn't "If you work hard enough", because Naruto didn't work at all. He toughed it out and relied on luck.

    You're right, Naruto didn't solely defend Hinata. He was standing up for everyone that was degraded and bullied. Which specifically was himself, Hinata, and Rock Lee.

    So in short, it wasn't a true NaruHina moment.

    You're contradicting yourself, dear. Because that's exactly what a plot device is, something that advances the story or to resolve the plot.

    Spoiler:
    In this case, Hinata's futile effort caused Naruto to lose it and go Kyuubi, in which not only got us to see the higher-tailed states, but to introduce Minato for a father-son reunion.

    By definition, Hinata's actions are a plot device.




    As for Hinata being singled out, there's your resolution from the confession. Her smiling as Sakura hugged Naruto.


    If he has feelings for Hinata, it's off-screen! :zaru

    Last I checked, the official translation has it, "I like people, like you."

    So you're really grasping at straws there. Especially when that was Chapter 98, and nothing signficant happened for over 300 Chapters. :p

    Spoiler:
    Size matters now? :rotfl

    BTW, the only one crying in Chapter 441 was Naruto. And that's when he found out everyone (not solely Hinata) was okay.


    Now if you are refering to Chapter 443, she wasn't crying. She was fixing her hair. :lmao


    Spoiler:
    If one breaks out of their shell, they don't regress. But hey, she didn't. Instead she watched a rival do it for her. :wink


    And as I said above, the ball is really in Sakura's court.


    Spoiler:
    I think Naruto would've reacted to anyone else if they did the same thing.

    And last I checked, Naruto was concerned about the villagers as much as Hinata. :p


    Excuse me? False claims? The story speaks for itself. And what I said is true. Naruto has more important things on his mind than Hinata.

    Frankly, I feel that the latest Arc pretty much put the nail in NaruHina's coffin. The race is down to NaruSaku and SasuSaku. :wink
     
  24. Elphaba Active Member

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    You're right, it does.

    Don't the boys get any credit here? It's not her decision--in fact, she has absolutely no say in what is currently going on between Naruto and Hinata. That will be Naruto's choice to make.

    Spoiler:
    For one, it's not as though Naruto has come in physical contact with Hinata ever since her confession. Until we see them interacting, we should all hold our tongue and not claim we "know" how Naruto is going to react.

    Secondly, there has been development, but you can't blame the minimal development on Naruto's side simply because he was completely and totally oblivious to Hinata's feelings.

    And thirdly, Naruto hasn't appeared overtly romantically affectionate to anyone after the Pain arc. That is partly attributed to the fact that so much as happened, but maybe something else, too? I don't know, we'll see.


    Our opinions will just have to differ, then, because I personally don't consider that a romantic moment that will receive future elaboration. That's not to say it won't, just how I see it.

    Actually, I meant the arc and issues that the NaruHina moments stemmed from (ie. Hinata's confrontation with Neji was resolved, Naruto's edge about going into battle with Neji, etc.)

    And yeah, no romance has been resolved from any of the Big 3. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much debating going on.

    Yes. Followed by a "Naah, Hinata wouldn't do something like that..." :zaru

    Rejecting her is such a negative way of putting it. First, he assured her with a big smile that he would be fine, followed by warning her that her own well-being would be in jeapordy if he took advantage of her kindness. Naruto was putting Hinata and his own teammates above his own success.

    Perhaps, but the general idea is there.

    Oh for goodness sake.

    You're really trying to cheapen Naruto's words and intent as much as you can, eh? Okay, yes, that probably crossed his mind. But for goodness sake, Naruto is sitting there watching Hinata getting viciously attacked, bleeding, and receiving a verbal lashing from her cousin, while she does everything in her power to follow Naruto's nindo and keep fighting, and you think Naruto wasn't saying all that he said for her? :facepalm

    In that case, isn't the entire manga one big plot device? You know, "one thing leads to another"? Because by that logic, the goofy filler scenes that Kishi throws in from time to time are the only thing worth taking into account, because they don't advance the story nor resolve the plot.

    Eh, see above. Just because what Hinata did was a catalystic event does NOT make it unimportant or irrelevant.

    Don't hold your breath on that.


    Welll, it wouldn't be the first time it happened... but I don't think so, and now that Naruto is actually aware of Hinata's feelings, we can really keep our eyes peeled for his behavior. Hinata has said all she needs to say.

    I do believe there was a specific notation to indicate the "really."

    Grasping at straws? You're pointing out chapter numbers to indicate that an event is now unimportant because of time--now who's grasping at straws? :zaru

    But something significant did happen, something very, very significant. There's a reason we're called the Patient Love.

    Spoiler:
    Potentially. The situations were different slightly different in that the crowd was larger and this is the first time Hinata saw Naruto physically okay since 437.


    I won't deny that, but don't even try and argue that a HUGE reason wasn't because of Hinata.

    ... Wait, what?

    Spoiler:
    X


    Even the spoiler provider said that she was crying that week.

    Oh boy, more false claims of Hinata and Sakura being rivals...

    And no, she didn't regress. Her personality will always be reserved, quiet and humble, despite a shining moment of breaking out of insecurity and being true to her feelings, instead of just standing there and letting Naruto get killed.


    I disagree completely, but I addressed that earlier.

    Spoiler:
    That's not the point. Kishi is the God of this story and he controls who does what, when and for what reason. In this case:
    Who: Hinata.
    Does: Save Naruto.
    When: During a battle.
    For what reason: She loves him.

    Of course, because Naruto is a good person and he cares for everyone's well-being. In this case, though, Hinata was singled out from "the rest of the village."


    Yes, false claims, because the NaruHina fandom is not as nearly far-fetched as you seem to believe.

    You're right, he does have more important things; in fact, the two most important things on his list at the moment are Sasuke and Danzou. Just because they are the most important, though, doesn't make Hinata not important.

    Spoiler: Hm, why would Hinata regeister on Naruto's radar?
    Maybe it could be because of the fact that a girl who he knew growing up, has had wonderful past encounters with and considers a good friend jumped in front of a ruthless villain, confessed her undying love for him and explained why, and was essentially prepared to throw away her life for the sake of his? I don't know, just a hunch.


    Oho, do you? The manga's not over yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  25. Tenrol no i do not want

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    Well Naruto's choice will be kinda easy since he doesn't have any romantic feelings for Hinata but Sakura instead.
     
  26. Elphaba Active Member

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    Maybe, but considering the romantic feelings haven't really been all that developed outside of silly date requests that he gets over one panel later, whereas now he's being presented with a girl who's loved him for who he is all along, we should wait and see how Naruto feels about all of this new information. I'm content to wait for Naruto and Hinata's reunion to find out how Naruto feels.
     
  27. Tenrol no i do not want

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    In part 2 not really since saving Sasuke is more important than chasing a girl but in part 1 he was obviously hurt when he saw Sakura's feelings for Sasuke in the hospital.


    So he'll loves hinata because she loved him all along?:iria no development needed?
     
  28. ButterflyGod AsunaxKirito4Ever

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    @Milky
    I think you're fighting a battle in a pairing war that won't resolve itself until the manga resolves it. I do agree heartily: Part 1, Part 2, Part 8478374587354 does it really matter? It's the same story, with the same characters. The past affects the present, affects the future, along with timeskips and every gaiden inbetween.

    In my opinion, Kishimoto has been plenty up front about his romantic subplots. I don't doubt Sakura's confession to Sasuke nor Hinata's more recent confession to Naruto. All had plenty of hints leading up to them that made them make sense. I no longer find any what-if conflicts here. My issue is not with how the girls feel - we know how the girls feel. How do the boys feel is what ought to be of concern. It's been consistently proven that neither Sasuke nor Naruto have not given the matter much thought. Sasuke in particular has not shown ANY interest in ANYONE or thought of anything outside Itachi and Konoha. SasuSaku may be my OTP, and I may believe in the strength of Sakura's feelings, but if Sasuke turns out to really not give two hoots about her, well, not much that can be done about it can it? Of course, I have my reasons to believe she is something to him and he will care, but until we get that interaction, I have no place claiming anything.

    NaruHina has the most potential to go canon in my opinion. The ball is in his court now, he just needs to do something on his end (or not). I don't see anything negative about their potentiality for getting together. Hinata's a nice girl who loved him when he was nothing, Naruto's a great guy who gives everyone who hasn't squandered it a chance. I don't ship them but I don't object to them either. There's nothing bad there. I don't see the negative things others see. If Naruto decides to give Hinata a chance, it wouldn't be the most unbelieveable thing to happen in this manga. I've seen plot twists that make way the heck less sense than this.
     
  29. WriterforHire Making the Cheshire Proud

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    Spoiler:
    Hi....again!

    Some of you may recognize me; I've popped my head in here a couple of times. The first time I came in, I put up a small argument for the likelihood of Sakura's feelings for Naruto based on the Feeding Scene, which, I'm sorry to say, was utterly destroyed in the following chapters in the manga and the anime version on that chapter. But, oh well. The second time I came here, I made a bit of a splash and was in the middle of writing a argument for a couple of Sasusaku supporters (I affectionately called in the "Mega Counterargument" on Word, and it was nearing ten pages when I finally stopped) when I suddenly died. I'm starting to realize I have a tendency to do that with all the sites I go to: Pop in, stay a short while, die off, and then rear my ugly mug again. Makes things entertaining, no?

    I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think I have a fairly simple, yet sound argument to begin with. I'll pull more of them out of my hat later, though, so don't you worry.

    This manga has always been about Naruto, first and foremost. Each and every chapter is a depiction of a part of his life, with a few chapters here and there that focus on the background works - the histories of side characters and main characters and the behind the scenes work of the main villains. However, it all, inevitably, comes back to our star. When we see the story of Kakashi, Rin and Obito, while this does serve to see Kakashi's past, the only reason why this is necessary is because Kakashi is Naruto's sensei. If someone else was Naruto's sensei, then this flashback would not be necessary - their past would be what was needed to be dived into. After all, we don't get a glimpse of Asuma's past or Guy's. Because, in the end, they are less important to Naruto then Kakashi is, so we only need to see the surface level of their personality and quirks because that's all that Naruto ever sees.

    The fact is, the more a mangaka focus on the side characters and side stories that involve those characters the further and further away he becomes from the main character and the main, overarching plot that is the focus of the manga itself. That's why romantic scenes from side characters, or heck, any scene from side characters at all for that matter, rarely get a through follow up, because the mangka is forced to get back on track to the main heart of the story or things will begin to derail. That's why there weren?t various scenes that depicted the meeting and growing romance between Asuma and Kurenai or the implied one between Shikamaru and Temari, because they are all side characters.

    But, just what does it mean to be a side character in a manga that is based around the life of a single individual? Well, it means that they are on the sidelines of Naruto's life. That if you stare down a timeline of all the major events in Naruto Uzumaki's life and see the main players in it, they only occasionally show up. What this naturally means, in the long run, is that Naruto is not as close and does not know these side characters as well as the main ones like Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi. However, this does not immediately cancel out Naruhina, after all, there are individuals in real life who end up dating (sometimes even marrying) others who they?ve only known for a few days. Because, in order for romantic feelings to grow two key ingredients are needed: Exposure (you can not fall in love with someone you?ve never seen or heard of before) and Significance (Those moments that you spend with that other individual must be significant to you). And here is where the heart of Naruhina lies. They (most of them at least) admit that Hinata is not a major player in Naruto?s life, that the two have rarely talked and have only a handful of experiences with each other, but, they claim, these experiences are so significant, to the both of them, that it allows room for the development of a relationship.

    Let me use this as a clarification; let?s say there?s a day when I am wandering on the streets alone. I am sick, feverish, beaten up badly, and bloody. But, it so happens, that a complete stranger finds me, takes me home, and tends to me until I am better, gives me money to buy a cab to head back home, and asks nothing in return. In the end, I don?t even learn his name. But, because of what he did for me, I remember him for a long while afterwards and I might even recognize him off the streets when he would have just been another face in the crowd before. This is because the weight of the experience I had suddenly gave the individual significance to my life.

    So, in that case, Naruhina could accurately be called an unnatural relationship. It?s being jumpstarted and accelerated by several significant moments instead of gradually growing, through prolonged exposure to one another and mutual acknowledgement, over time like Narusaku, which we all can agree was a considerably long and painful process. However, this does not necessarily mean that Naruhina is at a worse place then Narusaku in term of canonicity (is that even a word?). If such situations were happening in real life, (Sweet Lord!), I would say that Naruhina would have a high chance of falling apart eventually (like most rushed relationships tend to) mostly because the two of them don?t truly know how the other ticks ? it takes time to get to know someone. But, then again, this is a manga. If Kishi wants them to get together and stay together afterwards, then that?s what is going to happen. But, as a writer, I would have to say that it would not be quality storytelling, after all, just because this manga takes place in a fantasy world does not mean that the real world is not in it. The characters are all human beings, they all have human emotions, they all live in homes, there are houses, there is a sky, and there are trees. Real life is infused within the manga. It would be interesting to see a story where an author tried to remove real life as fully as possible from real life?it would not be possible. After all, it even has to be written in a real life language so that the reader can understand it.

    We all agree that the three main parings are all one-sided. Naruto likes Sakura, Hinata likes Naruto, and Sakura likes Sasuke. But, what we disagree on is the strength of those feelings. A Naruhina would say that Naruto only has as crush and maybe that crush has already died by this point of time in the manga, a Narusaku would say that he loves her and the feelings are there and will be there for a while still. A Sasusaku would say that Sakura loves Sasuke, but a Narusaku would say that she has shown no sign of those feelings again since Part Two and Sasuke has never shown any hint of returning them. So, we are stuck in this cycle.

    Speaking of returning affections, that is the other part of the main debate, and probably the main source of the contention. How close is anyone of the characters to returning the feelings and therefore make the one-sided pairing into a canon pairing? (for the moment). This is where I?m going to start to get to the nitty gritty, and I might actually hurt some people?s feelings, so a quick apologize before I begin: I am merely trying to be as reasonable and logical as possible, and, if I state anything that is personally against what you believe, that does not mean I think you are dumb. Debates are a very common thing, and both individuals can be extremely intelligent, there is merely a logical fallacy in one or both of their logics, and, in the case of trying to predict what one man in Japan will do, no amount of logic or reasoning may suffice ? people are unpredictable creatures.
     
  30. WriterforHire Making the Cheshire Proud

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    Spoiler:

    I’m going to start with Sasusaku, because it’s the weakest of the three. Sasuke use to be Sakura’s friend, though, at the time when he was, he was still rather cold and gruff to her, but such is his personality with nearly everyone. But there are situations where he acknowledges Sakura, like when he compliments her genjutsu abilities, asks Naruto to protect her, and admits that she was one of his “precious people” (which is a key theme to Naruto overall). This showed, at the very least, that Sakura was the most likely, if not the only candidate, for Sasuke should he end up wishing to return the affections of his various fangirls, because she was actually important to him. However, it must be made clear, as it will be made clear later in the Sakura to Naruto section, that Sakura is not the most important person to Sasuke. In fact, if there was a list, prior to Part Two, it would be Naruto, Itachi, and then Kakashi and Sakura tied at the bottom – then no one.

    But things changed at the Valley of the End, where Sasuke determined that these bonds were in fact holding him back, and has then been determined to try to cut them away. Whether or not he has been successful is another matter for another day, but what is important, is the fact that Sasuke no longer considers Sakura his friend, and is in fact trying to cut her away from him entirely. As such, there needs to be a significant change in his behavior and attitude in order for Sasusaku to become a stable possibility. And, even if he manages to put away the notion that bonds do not, in fact, make one weak, that does not necessarily mean that he will still wish to have bonds with Naruto and Sakura, because his determination to have revenge also comes into consideration (he still lumps them together with the rest of Konaha that he wishes to destroy). So, his thirst for revenge also needs to be put aside – without having him destroy all of Konaha, including Sakura and Naruto. Even if this does come about and Sasuke wishes to be friends with Sakura, this does not mean that he’ll also develop romantic feelings for her, or, if he does, that Sakura will return them even if she feels the same way. Yes, you heard me. Even if Sakura likes him and Sasuke likes her, the pairing still might not become canon, this is because of the many other factors involved, Sakura might just tell him that she needs to think things through more – needs to come to trust him first before anything can happen.

    Firstly, I must give you this: due to recent developments, Naruhina has become far more probable then ever before. Prior to this, Naruhina was the only relationship where the receiving side was not aware of the other’s feelings. Sakura was well aware of Naruto’s feelings but merely ignored and rejected them, Sasuke was also well aware of Sakura’s feelings, but ignored and rejected them. Naruto was merely oblivious to Hinata’s feelings, even with her fainting on sight of him. Because Naruto is now aware of Hinata’s feelings, it puts all of them on an even playing field. All one sided, and all on the receiving end is aware of those feelings. Prior to the confession, I would have said that Naruhina was less likely then Sasuhina, but I feel it now has the potential to become more so. But note, if this does happen, it would indeed be an unnatural jump, one which took Hinata from the sidelines and flung her front and center, all due to her Confession. For what is required of Naruto now is a revision, he must rethink about what Hinata has said and can know look back at their few past moments with opened eyes. He’s probably going to scourge through his memories to find out what he possibly did to cause Hinata to love him, because I assure you, he’s going to be very confused about that for a long, long time. He might never understand it.

    In fact, I would even venture to say that Naruto would be less shocked with Sakura returning his feelings, even though, I’m pretty sure, he fully believes she is still in love with Sasuke (why wouldn’t he?). There, at least, are years worth of experiences with one another. But, in order for Sakura to actually return those affections, I must say, as promised, that Sasuke becomes a large factor. After all, she must obviously realize that while Naruto cares for her and had a crush on her when they were younger; he is still clearly obsessed with getting Sasuke back. Sasuke will always be first and foremost the main bond in Naruto’s life. If she were to return his affections, she would have to realize that she would not be one that Naruto cares about the most, and I can imagine that such would be difficult for her to accept. But accept she must, because no matter who she ends up picking, the boys’ brotherly bond will stand in her way. (By the way, Naruto and Sasuke’s brotherly bond is the only sibling bond in Team 7. Naruto and Sakura have never been depicted as a brotherly – sisterly bond by anyone in the manga). But, in the same time, I would say that this is the strongest out of the three, because, unlike Sasusaku, they have a friendship in the past and present, and both of them wish to continue that friendship. (Unlike previously, when it was merely Naruto trying to be friends with Sakura and Sakura stubbornly trying to push him away – she warmed up to him, no doubt about it). And, unlike Naruhina it is a close friendship, and both of them will be seeing each other for a long time afterwards, they will probably continue to be close friends even after Naruhina becomes canon, which, when the knowledge that Naruto use to have a crush on Sakura comes out (because I’m not sure if Hinata even knows) that would surely make things awkward for her. Also, unlike Naruhina, the only other bond that stands higher is the Narusasu bond, which trumps all others, while Naruto, prior to the Confession, merely clumped Hinata together with the rest of the Rookie 9. However, since Sasuke is coming back and since Naruto has yet to give a response to the Confession, I must say that a Sasusaku and a Naruhina moment is probably around the corner and the moment may even bring closure with the death or canonicity (there it is again!) of one of the pairings. But, even given that, I would still say that Narusaku has the greatest potential, at the present, to become canon. Though, as with all stories that are yet to be finished, only time can truly tell.


    P.S. Sorry for the double post it was too long...again.

    P.S. 2: Okay...maybe that wasn't so simple or straightforward afterall...
     
  31. Elphaba Active Member

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    Yes, because it finally dawned on him that Sakura loved Sasuke and he was just going to have to accept that. This was acknowledged once again in 451.

    At any rate, I'm not prone to believe that Naruto's romantic feelings for Sakura were ever too deep, compared to the romance we have seen portrayed by the girls.

    No, he'll love her because he fell in love with her independently. Naruto is absolutely not obligated to take Hinata because of what she did, but I don't likely see him turning down the opportunity that could potentially lead to him finally noticing that the girl of his dreams was standing right in front of him all along.

    ButterflyGod, well said, and I agree completely.
     
  32. Tenrol no i do not want

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    agreed...that's basically what i was saying that he acknowleged.

    confession =/= deep feelings. Maybe Hinata because she said the reasons why she loves Naruto unlike Sakura. But Sakura i don't find her feelings deep at all.



    :rotfl:rotfl


    Girl of his dreams?..best one... where you got that? About him falling in love with her i have yet to see something in the manga suggesting that.
     
  33. ButterflyGod AsunaxKirito4Ever

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    Outside of his silly date requests that get turned down that he never cries about, I don't see what you mean by that. If Naruto has deeper feelings for Sakura, the writer has not convinced me in the least. I'd ship and support NaruSaku if I saw the characters going in that direction together but so far no hints have been tell-tale enough to even give it a 'maybe' possibility. Eveything they do together is so ambiguous and the story just skips over these supposed romantic 'moments' like they're nothing. Besides....

    Spoiler:
    I'm more convinced that when Sasuke appears on the scene, everything else will take a backseat, including any and all romantic plot threads concerning Naruto. When Sasuke is in front of Naruto, he's pretty much all Naruto sees.
     
  34. Elphaba Active Member

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    Well, the current arc is as good a time as any to possibly prove once and for all if Sakura still loves Sasuke. If her feelings are indeed still there and they have carried over the timeskip and onwards like Hinata's did, I think it's safe to say that they are deep.

    Yes, potentially. Consider what Naruto has wanted all along: acknowledgement, companionship, love, acceptance, etc. Hinata is one of the only characters in the series to offer that to Naruto from the very beginning, and certainly the only one of romantic nature.

    No, he hasn't. Not yet. I suggest no supporter of the Big 3, regardless of what they ship, get ahead of themselves before the manga is over. ;33
     
  35. Tenrol no i do not want

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    Because poal or when he was hurt in the hospital with Sakura in the hospital isn't enough right? Part 2 is about saving Sasuke Naruto doesn't time chasing a girl. Not my fault if you need to have a selfish confession like Sakura to proves he has deep feelings

    agreed



    Please give me a panel where Naruto said all that? i know he said he wanted to be accepted and acknowledged by the village and to be Hokage.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2009
  36. Kakugo 天と地

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    I suppose Naruto's feelings towards Sakura completely and utterly do not matter? Considering 1. We know since the beginning that shes been his love interest, and hes not done anything as of yet to make us believe that those feelings have changed, 2. We have been seeing continuous signs from Sakura to be developing a realistic and ongoing realization that Naruto means far more to her than some naysayers would argue, and 3. Hes the main character of the story, and I would think his feelings matter above a side characters.

    Though it is your opinion, I'd like you to elaborate on how NaruHina has "the most potential", when NaruSaku has been continuous, gradual, and the most well developed relationship of the big 3. Hinata rarely makes appearances, Sasuke hasn't been around for ages, and Naruto and Sakura have been continuously at each others side, never really parting unless it was necessary, and continuously growing stronger and closer to one another while on occasion still managing to give their hints and indications that they share a relationship that is beyond merely "platonic". To this day I have not been able to understand how anyone could just so blatantly undermine the strength and bond that NaruSaku share, and in what possible way would Sasuke and Hinata fit in between their equation even after so long.
     
  37. Elphaba Active Member

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    It has not been stated explicitly, but it's safe to say that Naruto has sought to earn everything that he's never had; his dreams, romantic bonds, familial bonds and otherwise. :wink

    1. That's the problem... nothing has changed. I can't see his crush as being any different than it was in chapter 3.
    2. That is certainly up for debate and personal interpretation of those supposed scenes. For me, personally, I don't think so. At least, not in a romantic sense.
    3. What? Okay, sure. :lmao
     
  38. ButterflyGod AsunaxKirito4Ever

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    Nope. Naruto has his own reasons to save Sasuke. The promise of a lifetime was Naruto making a promise both to himself and Sakura, whom he knows holds Sasuke important to her as well.

    Oh no, not that 'selfish confession' argument again. All romantic love has selfish aspects to it. It's one person seeing, treating and feeling for another person in a certain way that they don't see, treat or feel for others. Can you use another argument that holds more water please? I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely need more than that.

    If Naruto doesn't have time to chase a girl, then certainly Sakura isn't as important to him romantically as we thought. I mean, all that much lauded time they spend together, and he can't make a move? Or say something?What's stopping him?
     
  39. Tyrannos Living a Life

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    Of course she has nothing to say about what's going on between Naruto and Hinata, because there is nothing between Naruto and Hinata .

    And it's not Naruto's decision, because Naruto has no romantic feelings for Hinata. Unlike Sakura, who is now torn between Naruto and Sasuke.

    Spoiler:
    What interaction with Hinata? There hardly has been any throughout the manga. :facepalm

    So Hinata confessed. It doesn't mean Naruto's going to automatically fall in love with her because of it. Especially when he has no feelings for her.

    As for Naruto, he just came out of a life-or-death battle. The ball wasn't in his court, it was the girls. And it was Sakura who took the initiative, much to Naruto's surprise.


    Spoiler:
    If you read the manga, you know Sakura showing Naruto anykind of affection is something for Naruto to be surprised about. So yes, it's significant.

    Especially with the people blushing. :hehee


    Still, you NaruHinas are holding on to that one moment, while NaruSaku and SasuSaku has plenty of ground to stand on.

    So you do admit it wasn't a pure NaruHina moment. :hehee

    And that's why Naruto took it personally, because Neji was spitting on that Nindo.

    Not to mention at the outcome of his fight with Neji, he revealed just that.

    Now you're being argumentative to justify your beliefs. Because you're trying to redefine the entire literary structure for it.

    No it's not unimportant. But people are overhyping it as if it was a critical juncture in the story, when it's not. That's what the arguement is about.

    Well then the manga's wrong. :zaru

    Yes, she did. Now she no longer has any importance other than Naruto requiting. And no matter how you look at it, Naruto still has no affection for Hinata whatsoever.

    Now you're being childish, especially when your focusing on a single word. While the fan translation points to Hinata specifically, but the official translation points to a broader spectrum.

    And it's pretty obvious that nothing signficant that happened between Chapter 98 and Chapter 437 regarding NaruHina. So don't blame me, blame Kishimoto.

    BTW, you can't build a road with only two stones.

    Now, it's the crowd's fault! :zaru

    Spoiler:
    Oh it's Hinata all right, its her fault that Naruto went Kyuubi. Else Naruto would not have had to worry about killing his fellow villagers.


    Let's go by someone's opinion, shall we? :zaru

    Spoiler:
    If she was crying, then where are the tears?

    All I see is the same smudge from the previous chapters.

    X
    X

    And on top of that, if Hinata was wiping away her tears, then why is her index finger by her bangs?


    Well guess what? Love Triangles always involves competition with another. So by definition, they are rivals.

    And you can break out of insecurity, and still be reserved?

    Doesn't mean Hinata is going to end up with Naruto. Especially when Naruto doesn't have feelings for her.

    Yes, it is. And you proven my point in stating Hinata is going to have an important role in the remaining Arcs.

    Because how would she fit in? Why is she more important than Sasuke?

    The same can be said for NaruSaku and SasuSaku as well. :zaru

    Spoiler:
    NaruSaku: Naruto grew up loving Sakura. He saved her from a ruthless villian (Gaara). Well he sort of confessed (in his own way). And he threw away his life for her, twice.

    SasuSaku: Sakura grew up loving Sasuke. She threw herself in harms way on occasion (especially in the Gaara Arc). She confessed her heart. And was willing to throw away her life to be with him.


    See, NaruHina isn't as unique as you make like it is. :wink

    True, but if I was a betting man. I wouldn't be placing my bets on NaruHina. :amuse
     
  40. Kakugo 天と地

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    Do you expect him to make the "appropriate" advances towards her when there are clearly other things on the table right now, and in a Shounen manga no less? Certainly that does not in the least bit mean that his feelings for her are not of importance or significance, as its been portrayed continuously throughout the manga. With that, I wouldn't classify Naruto's feelings for her as just a mere "crush" either.

    Point taken that people do interpret things to each their own. Though there are quite of few in opposition out there who just chose to disclose the obvious portrayals of NaruSaku simply because they don't wish for the pairing to happen, and there ARE clear signs in showing of Sakura's transition of feelings towards Naruto. Chosing to ignore it is just plain arrogance and biased/selective reading.

    So your denying that Hinata is a side character, or that her appearances throughout the manga have been minimal?
     
  41. e u p h o r i s t i c 私はあなたの愛 - でも十分ではないのかもしれない。

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    What makes everyone actually think she's making a decision like that? I know this is a bit mean, but do you think that if Sasuke came back, Sakura would still 'love' Naruto? They've been working together to get Sasuke back -- with both their own reasons. If Sasuke stayed, she still would've loved him. (Even though we all know she still does now, even if you guys insist on her now supposed feelings for Naruto) Because she's loved Sasuke since the beginning, and it doesn't look like she's changing her mind any time soon.

    Spoiler:
    What if she wasn't smiling in approval? You can't say she's smiling in approval unless it's a book and it says, 'She's smiling in approval.' Hinata was smiling because he was getting acknowledge. All her life she's been watching Naruto get hated because of the Kyuubi, don't you think she'd be smiling because he's getting acknowledged and accepted? (Seriously. Where do you /get/ these things? I think it's your NaruSaku conscious thinking for you, 'cause if you love someone, no matter HOW nice you are, you don't smile in approval while someone hugs the person you love. Because we all have a feeling called jealousy, even though Hinata wasn't jealous in that moment)
     
  42. Tenrol no i do not want

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    But why not another girl other than Hinata. You know a girl that he is atleast attracted to and atleast see her in a romantic light.


    @butterfly

    And how is your argument better? About the goodbye scene she wasn't thinking of him, she was only thinking of the pain she would feel of loosing him. I find it extremely selfish and not deep at all.

    Well unless for you chasing a girl is more important than fullfilling a promise and saving Sasuke well okay

    Maybe because he think she still loves Sasuke? who knows.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  43. mystic868 Member

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    Hinata's confession scene is similar to canyon scene with K4. Sakura also run to Naruto to help him(she didn't care about herself getting hurt) and she called away poal. That was the most important promise in her life, yet she realised that Naruto will do everything to keep that promise(for me it's great proof of deep feelings) and she couldn't let him kill himself. Of course the meaning of this scene is smaller because there weren't any magical words - "I love you", however there were hints that leads to sth close to it.
    Of course ppl claims that they're only friends but is that true that "only friend" is calling away the most important promise kept by the other friend to save him from struggling? And after that asking for technique to keep him safe? Worrying and crying when discovering the truth about sealed demon? Blushing sometimes? Well maybe it is "only friendship" but for me it has far deeper meaning. And IMO NaruSaku pairing is not obvious one - feelings are hidden well and will burst when the right amount of time will pass, and the two people will realise that sometimes the most important things are at the hand's grasp.
     
  44. Tenrol no i do not want

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    She doesn't even know Naruto has the kyuubi inside of him unless you're going with the offscreen argument :sag

    Spoiler:
    About the hug i dont know if i was a girl i wouldnt never let another hugging my man. this is according to the reality btw.
     
  45. e u p h o r i s t i c 私はあなたの愛 - でも十分ではないのかもしれない。

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    She doesn't? Well, doesn't that not make sense...? O_____________o
    ...
    ...Everyone in the village knows...That's why they stayed away...
    How come Hinata doesn't know?
     
  46. Elphaba Active Member

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    Don't jump to conclusions so quickly.

    Wait, it's not Naruto's decision to decide whether he wants to act upon Hinata's feelings, which are directed at him or not? It's not his decision whether he wants to continue to pursue Sakura or not? In other words, Naruto doesn't have a say in who he gets to be with, and that decision will rest upon Sakura? Okay.

    One of the many drawbacks of being a side character, I suppose. Even so, when she has shown up, she's carried her weight and provided relevance to the story, especially towards Naruto, which is basically the center of her character and whenever she does show up it involves him.

    Spoiler:
    I never said he did, and I am 100% against the idea that Naruto is obligated to fall in love with her because of her actions.
    Perhaps he might, though. And even if he doesn't, who's to say he won't develop them later?


    Spoiler:
    No, the ball is in Naruto's court. If Sakura is indeed deciding to pursue Naruto (which I highly doubt) he still has the power to reject her, and he also has the power to accept Hinata. Not saying that I expect one to happen, but he is absolutely in control of who he sees romantically and who he does not.


    Spoiler:
    You're right, and actually as a Sakura fan and Team 7 fan I am glad she finally gave Naruto the recognition he's deserved for so long. One hug when it was absolutely called for does not trump a love confession.


    Spoiler:
    Wait, which one moment? The confession? Sure, that was a turning-point because Naruto is finally aware of her feelings, but that's not all we have to stand on.
    Each pairing has a base that they've established, enough so to be in the running for canonicity. I've my opinions of them all.


    I never said that.

    Yes, that likely upset him, but you are continuing to deny Naruto the right to care for someone as a human being, instead having him selfishly defending his own personal beliefs alone.

    No, I'm just applying what you described as a "plot device" to how a manga functions.

    Spoiler:
    That would be because it was a critical juncture. As I mentioned before, Kishi could have chosen several situations to move the story along from that point.


    Calling an unfinished manga wrong before your own personal opinion? Well played. :zaru

    Spoiler:
    Well, that might or might not be proven wrong. As a Hinata fan alone, I am hoping she has relevance to the current plot politically, but realistically I won't be holding my breath for that. I am willing to patiently wait it out and see what happens.
    You continue to come back to that, but the way I look at it, I disagree. Now, that's not to say that he's "hopelessly and secretly in love with her and will ride off into the sunset for all eternity," just basing an opinion off of previous interactions, Naruto's attitude and where the confession could potentially lead.


    Spoiler:
    Not exactly, just elaborating. One would have to see the RAW to determine what degree was used, but a fan translation just might be at hand. Sort of like the adding of the "l-" in the "Sakura, in reality you..." line.


    I don't blame you or Kishimoto. You see, I am a quality-over-quantity type of person, which is why I am not upset at all.

    Two stones, eh? I see it more as a pretty decently sized shipment of necessary material, and now we shall wait and see if we get the remainder of those that shipment in the remainder of this series.

    Spoiler:
    Ah, you know, you're right. Bad Hinata for making Naruto worry about her and the villagers. After all, she could have just sat on the sidelines instead; that way, Naruto would be dead and have no worrying to do about anyone!

    :facepalm


    Spoiler:


    Okay, you know what? I'm not even going to bother. When you ignore what is drawn, then there's no point in me trying.

    Actually, she wasn't wiping them away; she was turning to her side, away from Sakura and the others, hiding her tears with that hand.

    Enemies by default, I see. My definition of "rivals" would be Sakura and Ino both chasing after Sasuke back in early Part I. Their rivalry was blatantly stated to be about him, there was no defaultation.

    Spoiler:
    Yes. And besides that, Hinata's purpose of confronting Pain was not to confess her love, it was to save Naruto's life. Naruto asked for an explanation, so she explained... it wouldn't surprise me if she expected those moments to be her last, as she acknowledged as much herself. Not the best time to hold back your true feelings.


    Same old argument. To reiterate, no, it doesn't automatically mean that, and again, we don't know that for sure.

    Spoiler:
    Wait, when did I say that? I'd like for her to have importance, as a Hinata fan and a NaruHina fan, but that does not mean I fully expect it. At any rate, everyone has learned you shouldn't disclude any possibility with Kishi--in fact, I bet that if anyone had vocalized an event like 437 occuring before it did, that person would have been verbally castrated/neutered.


    Spoiler:
    Just because she could "fit in" doesn't mean she has to be above Sasuke. For example, Kishi could fit her in politically; she has the highest standing of all the Hyuugas in the village at the moment, and the Hyuugas have political power. Danzou has only been appointed Hokage temporarily.


    Again, though, I'm not saying this is going to happen. Just throwing out possibilities, since you asked.

    Love? Confess? :hehee
    And yes, it is not beyond Naruto to put his life on the line for anybody, especially Sakura because she is his teammate and one of his best friends. However, Naruto has put his life on the line for others and will continue to do so becasue that is the person he is.

    (continued below, character limit)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  47. Elphaba Active Member

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    Not going to argue here, I like SasuSaku.

    Actually, every single Big 3 couple is unique in its own way. ;33

    That's what's great about gambles: you've got people putting money on different names all across the board. Your opinion as a betting man won't stop the man next to you from betting on something else. :wink
     
  48. Tenrol no i do not want

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    When Naruto was young none of the rookies knew Naruto had the kyuubi the adult did. I'd say in part 2 she know it but doesn't really mention it.
     
  49. e u p h o r i s t i c 私はあなたの愛 - でも十分ではないのかもしれない。

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    Well, even if they didn't know, I'm Hinata's not blind enough to see him hanging out alone on the Academy swings and him being rejected by others.
     
  50. NarutoIzDaMan The legacy lives on

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    Spoiler:
    Can you explain to me why and how Sakura could still "love" Sasuke after all the bad choices he has made (including trying to kill Naruto TWICE), while Naruto has been there for her since the beginning. Her so called "love" in part 1 was based on purely selfish reasons. She never got to truly know Sasuke on a personal level unlike Naruto who at least established himself as his best friend. Even in her confession scene she admits how he never talks to her and that he probably hates her.

    On an added note - If you also look way back it was Naruto who inspired her to be a better person, not Sasuke. I'm sure people are gonna and have already made the argument that he inspired her to train for 3 years to help bring him back. There might be some truth to that but it was ultimately Naruto who inspired her to try even harder and become better. Another argument that can be made is that Naruto puts Sakura's happiness first over his while Sasuke.....you get the drift.

    Based on all that I've viewed/read over the years, I would truly be surprised if Sakura still decided to choose Sasuke over Naruto after everything that's happened. Narusaku is the logical pairing IMO but it's all up to Kishi in the end.
     
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