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The Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and the Rinnegan Databook Update *Offical Thread.*

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives 2' started by Andrew, Jul 14, 2009.

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  1. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    Many people are confused about the mangekyo Sharingan?s Power and the Rinnegan. So to provide the true meaning of each technique;
    I decided to use the data book as evidence of which one is actually stronger. Before I start my 1,500 word essay on exactly why the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is stronger, I just want to say no real evidence or statistic shows that Nagato?s Rinnegan was more powerful than Madara?s Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. In existence, I am about to prove just the opposite because it failed in every aspect to measure up to the true powers of the Ultimate Mangekyo. People who are so obsessed to defend the rinnegan with out considering and neglecting the fact it will only lead to their doom. The rinnegan and the Sharingan thread was based on arguments on two things optimism and pessimism. Where shall I begin? The Mangekyo Sharingan.
    Before I decided to post this, I did at least enough research and investigation to make sure the facts are correct:

    X

    X


    I?ll give you the direct information on what it says about the Mangekyo.


    Here is what the data book says about the Mangekyo Sharingan:

    X
    This means that Madara is the only current user of the Eternal Mangekyo which makes it rare. Yes, to define rare its something that not much of it exist. The Rinnegan was possessed by two people: The Rikudou Sennin and Nagato. The Eternal Mangekyo was possessed by one user: Madara. Many years ago, he was the first to activate the Mangekyo. However, I formally believe that the Uchiha?s ways of gaining power is evil due to spectral evidence that you have to kill a friend (witch is not usually the case of gaining it) in order to wield it. The current status of wielding the EMS is by stealing another Uchiha?s eyes. In Madara?s case, he wants world domination and gain the Ultimate EMS.

    The first user to Activate it
    Madara
    Its obvious that the Mangekyou Sharingan is the greatest weapon at Madara's disposal. The eternal power he got a hold of by sacrificing his little brother's eyesight, the one that controls the impossible even the Nine-Tailed Fox. But wherever an Akatsuki member is present, Madara doesn't use Mangekyou Sharingan to conceal his identity.

    I must emphasize that the data book has admitted about Madara?s powers are mysterious. Which can means four things. For an extremely high level ninja to be able evade any attack such as the Amaterasu or the chidori is extremely powerful compared to the rinnegan. For him to be able live long enough in his current time means his EMS has the ability to grant the user everlasting life. The Data book mentions that he deceived Hashirama. How ironic, this clarifies the purpose behind his powers and his possible weakness which could be the moon. For clarities sake; I want to review the powers between a normal Sharingan and the Mangekygo Sharingan. The Sharingan is a dojustu; a lower level than the Rinnegan. The Sharingan, is only first unlocked under some stressful or emotional condition, after which, though, the Sharingan may be used freely. When the Sharingan is first activated by a user, through continued use and training, evolves it further the only level up from the Sharingan is the Mangekyo Sharingan, which is gained by the emotional stress stemming from the loss of someone close to the user.
    The Sharingan's first ability is to memorize any technique that it witnesses, apart from other techniques. It can memorize ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu . This incredible power allows the user to use the techniques as his own and then create their own new techniques. the necessary skill or ability to perform them. The Sharingan's second ability is to recognize genjutsu and different forms of chakra, though not to the same extent as minent ability grants the user an incredible clarity of perception. This also allows the user to pick up on subtle details, enabling them to read lip movements or mimic something like pencil movements. The sharingan can also tell if a person is under a genjutsu.
    The Mangekyo Sharingan is far more powerful.heightened form of Sharingan. The Mangekyo Sharingan is distinguished from a normal Sharingan through its appearance, which changes the form of the tomoe seal. Unlike in the case of the Sharingan, the appearance of the Mangekyo Sharingan differs from user to user; o acquire the Mangekyo Sharingan, someone close to a Sharingan user must die and the emotion of the loss is responsible for its unlocking. To expedite this occurrence, most Uchiha throughout history have killed their closest friends or family members in order to meet this criteria. The Mangekyo Sharingan can get access to powerful and forbidden techniques. Both of witch is not yet known with Madara. It is unclear if these techniques are unique among individuals; No two Mangekyo Sharingan users have been seen using the same jutsu, but Madara appears knowledgeable of all Mangekyo Sharingan techniques. The only known exception to this is Amaterasu, which Itachi implants in Sasuke's eyes before dying. Over time, use of the Mangekyo Sharingan deteriorates the user's eyesight to the point of blindness. Only by taking and transplanting the eyes of one's sibling (who also wields the Mangekyo Sharingan) can the vision be restored, a process that results in the creation of the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. Not only does this process restore one's eyesight, but it also gives the person greater power. This great power is currently unknown.
    For Madara to hide in Akatsuki?s shadows could mean he needs Sasuke which is his true motive to unlock the mysteries of his powers; as he mentioned earlier he was happy to win over Sasuke. All that Madara ever wanted was justice for his clan, and nothing else. He only eneded the battles against the Senju clan, because it was for the clan rather him giving in, the Senju clan wanted it to end because their getting betten by the Uchihas. Madara didn't realize his clan was already tired of fighting. After Madara assaulted Konoha, with the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox at his command, it only worsened the consequences for the Uchihas for they were known of their technique by the Senjus. Anyways, The Uchiha clan was put under surveillance and forced into confinement. Then Madara left in despair with the final attempt to wipe out the Kohnoha only to be stopped by Itachi. I want to theorize for a minute that he only attacked his clan because Sasuke's always been reflected in Madara's eyes. His feelings of affection towards him is a mystery because of his interest in a useful pawn. Madara was waiting for Sasuke's to grow and has pressed it along. Sasuke grew up to his liking, and Itachi is dead. Only a few bijuu remain to be captured. There is nothing left to hinder his ambitions, everything has been carried out according to plan. His plan involves the ?Eye of moon Plan? Which will overrule the Rinnegan.
     
  2. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    Continued

    The Rinnegan

    Quotes from the Data Book:

    Pein was a powerful and his powers are beyond the impossible. In general Observation, his powers are more superior than all the three dojutsu as the data book explains. However, the matter of the fact that he takes orders from Madara leaves him one level beneath him along with his disadvantages such as being disabled. However, I will say this. For him to blow up an entire village and to restore the dead back to life makes him far more superior than the Mangekyo Sharingan. Why is he taking orders from Madara with it should be the other way around? This leaves the state that Madara could be more powerful then Nagato or convinced him. Things are still in motion and no one not even the Data book could explain what Madara?s capabilities are. One of the Mangekyo techniques may include something similar like bringing back the dead. I am only mentioning this on the behalf of more than three sources that mentions the Mangekyo Sharingan has access to forbidden technique.

    X

    *Rikudou Sennin*
    The Rikudou still holds the title of the most powerful ninja in existence. I am mentioning this on behalf of the data book. However, I have belief that Madara?s plan will make him more powerful.
     
  3. Mider T VM Rapist

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    Nice try but Madara is a "pathetic shell of his former self" his EMS is totally fucked up right now. That's why he's trying to implement the Eye of the Moon plan to return his powers.

    And Pain didn't use his Rinnegan to it's full potential like the Sage did.
     
  4. CalculatedRisk Member

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    Rinnegan > Sharingan. Yet, I feel that put against each other Sharingan comes out on top.
     
  5. Cyclonic Active Member

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    though I disagree that is an extremly well put post. reps.
     
  6. CalculatedRisk Member

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    Reps for what? He stated that many people are unware of the EMS's mysterious power. Then provided speculation only, because we have no clue what it does besides not going blind. Not to mention he got this idea off of another thread only to say nothing.
     
  7. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    That's completely false information. What do you mean Pein didn't use his rinnegan to its full potential? I understand he is not the original source of the Rinnegan but he did all of the six paths in battle and went all out against Naruto. Please explain or prove me wrong of why Madara needs all the bijuu's to evolve his EMS into the UEMS.
     
  8. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    If your talking about the debate against the Rinnegan vs sharingan thread. Your wrong. On the contrary, no one admits that I proved the EMS to be more powerful and so I pulled out from the fan bash of those who believe that the Rinnegan is more powerful.
     
  9. Nirvana Don't be hatin'

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    Rikodou the sage of the six paths created the moon. Nagato created a huge ball of earth about 4 miles in diameter. The moon the sage created is a little more than 1/4th the size of the planet to put that into perspective.
    Sage>Nagato

    Sage created ninjutsu.
    Sage>>>>>Nagato
    Exactly. He used every trick he knew to fight Naruto. But that doesn't mean he used his Rinnegan to its full potential. He had no one to teach him at all. For all we know there could have been an 'ultimate' technique for all paths. Chibaku Tensei was only for Deva Realm, the other realms might have had similiarly powerful moves which Nagato never learned about.

    Point is that the Rinnegan's potential is endless. It fucking created ninjutsu. Let's ends these debates.
     
  10. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    This is not a debate. Its based on logical sense from the Data book.
     
  11. Sennin of Hardwork Tales to Astonish

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    Nice essay. But I doubt that Madara will become stronger than Rikudou Sennin. We are talking about someone who created the art of ninjutsu itself. When there were countless wars in the ancient world, Rikudou appeared and founded this religion known as ninjutsu to stop them, as Jiraiya told to Nagato.

    Practically Madara and all the Naruto cast follows his fundament. If Rikudou were to appear, he could take away the ninjutsu knowledge from them very easily.

    For some reason he was called a god.
     
  12. Titan08 I now dub thee, Darth

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    I appreciate your research OP +rep, but if this was an attempt to end the Rinnegan vs Sharingan wars it was just another battle I'm afraid.:(
     
  13. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    Thanks. I just wanted to inform those who still think that Rinnegan is more powerful to read the facts. And your right the Rikudou could be more powerful than Madara.

    And I appreciate your honesty. Don't worry this is not an attempt to start a war or a battle. It seems to me the battle was won in the Rinnegan vs Sharingan thread but the war is far from over.
     
  14. Eternal Pein Amegakure

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    And yet another thread on this pointless debate :facepalm
     
  15. Mider T VM Rapist

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    We don't know yet, but that's his goal, it's canon:zaru
     
  16. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    No, this is not a debate. I can promise you this thread won't exceed 10 pages. I'll put my life on it. Its facts and discussion from the data book.
     
  17. Sparky Marky Active Member

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    This is from your own databook extract on the rinnegan:


    "Presently, not even a portion of the abilities generated through this most supreme of doujutsu, possesed by Pain, is certain. "

    This segment not only states that only a small portion of the powers of the rinnegan have been shown but it also says quite cleary that the rinnegan is the supreme eye technique (i.e. better than sharingan). Jiraiya has also said something to this effect in th manga when he fought pain.

    also, just like how the "potential" of the various sharingan users can be different, the same must be true for rinnegan users. For all we know pain might have been a bit of a rinnegan noob compared to the rikudou sennin
     
  18. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    Of course the rinnegan is better than the Sharingan but is it better than the the Ultimate Mangekyo sharingan that has access to forbidden techniques? How about this: Sure the Origin created the other Dojustu but one of them: The Sharingan has the ability to evolve twice. The mangekyo sharingan and the EMS. Now, with that said. How powerful will it be once Madara activates the UEMS?
     
  19. Mider T VM Rapist

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    Yes.

    Think about what everyone else is saying.
    UEMS can access "forbidden" techniques.
    Rinnegan made these techniques possible.
     
  20. Deweze The Master of the Showdown

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    Very Interesting
    :hmm

    Edit:
    ^:ryoma
     
  21. God Is extremely merciful for the right price

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    Nice try, but still. Rikudou Sennin was the only one who unlocked the power within. No matter what Madaras planning, EMS cant surpass Rin'negan.
     
  22. Nirvana Don't be hatin'

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    Ok, so this thread is a discussions of facts, not a debate correct? As of now we have no evidence of this UEMS. It's all pure speculation. I'm not saying that Kishi won't take the Manga in that direction, but right now we know nothing. Thus, it's impossible for us to compare something that we already know very little about (Rinnegan) to something that we know nothing about (UEMS).

    Factual answer to the thread: We don't know yet.
     
  23. Hiruzen Master Debater

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    Rinnegan includes knowing EVERY jutsu as well as EVERY element. Did Pain do that????

    The Sage of Six paths was said to have descended from Heaven. FUCKING heaven. And he possessed the Rinnegan. That probably leads to the fact that Rinnegan puts you on par with gods if used to its full potential.
     
  24. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    Okay, I agree. Your right. Their is no evidence what lies behind the UEMS. However, when that time comes and if it so happens in the cannon that Madara did surpass the Rinnegan.... I don't know what I'll do.
     
  25. IpHr0z3nI Active Member

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    Your logic is baffling. Where in the manga does it state that the Rinnegan allows one to learn every jutsu. It is not even stated in the databook. I'm tired of these debates because anybody using logic can see why the Sharingan is superior. The Rin'negan< Kyubi ,the MS grants the ability to control the Kyubi, the EMS grants the ability to summon the Kyubi. The EMS also makes you untouchable.

    Sage of the Six paths is just hype. We have very little information about him, so the Rin'egans performance will be based off pein. Pein is taking orders from Madara. Who has the EMS please use logic people.
     
  26. Clay The Writing Writer Super Moderator

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    This won't end, will it? Not until the Sage of the Six Paths shows up and kicks the living hell out of Madara. Do you REALLY want Kishimoto to go out of his way to prove which is more powerful and ruin the manga by doing so?
     
  27. Undaunted &#3

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    So far, Rinnegan has proven itself superior to the Sharingan altogether.

    However that's not a very accurate analysis, as we have yet to see the EMS in action.
     
  28. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    X.
    X.
     
  29. God Is extremely merciful for the right price

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    Lmao ^

    The Rin'negan:

    Pein Rikudou
    Shinra Tensei
    Banshou Tenin
    Chibaku Tensei
    Rockets and Flying Arms
    Asura Form
    Mind Reading
    Soul Ripping
    Gedo Mazo and other spirits
    Life and Death
    Summon Spam
    Absorption
    Rain
    Shouten Clones
    Barrier Clones
    Telecommunication
    Sensing Barriers
    Every Jutsu

    Spoiler:
    Moon.


    The Sharingan:

    Copy Ability
    Amaterasu
    Tsukuyomi
    Susano'o
    EMS
    Kyuubi Control


    Point made.
     
  30. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    ^^Some additions and edits.
     
  31. Mider T VM Rapist

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    ^Might as well cross out soul ripping and rain too
     
  32. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    :huh Why? Soul ripping from Human and Hell Realm are Rinnegan-based, so I don't see why that should be crossed out. Ukojizai no Jutsu is debatable, but the Databook gave it no rank and gave no indication that it could be used by other shinobi.
     
  33. Hexa probably Dendi Advisor

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    Shouldn't you have included the caption to the Mangekyou entry:
    The power of the supreme pupils, the Mangekyou Sharingan.
    It lessens the bite of the fact that the Rinnegan similarly called "supreme". Though, obviously the EMS is better than the Mangekyou (and the entry only concerns the Mangekyou, not the EMS), so it can't technically be supreme.

    The Sharingan might have a bigger "list" of powers if each of its genjutsu are named and tabled. But obviously the number of items on a list is unimportant.
     
  34. Mider T VM Rapist

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    I meant because of Sandaime and Yondaime.
     
  35. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    :oh So? Different forms of soul ripping, and the ones used by Human and Hell Realms don't require the user's life.
     
  36. God Is extremely merciful for the right price

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    Yes, I was referring to Konoha's shield.
     
  37. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    In contrast, do you think Madara's Ultimate Mangekyo will beat the Rinneagan?
     
  38. God Is extremely merciful for the right price

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    I've heard u repeat this fanfic for days now. Wtf is an Ultimate Mangekyo and why have I never heard of it.
     
  39. shadowtkd Member

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    I think its interesting how people forget that the rinnengan gave birth to all ninjutsu. If mangekyo has access to some secret super powerful jutsus its only because the rinnegan created those jutsus and would also have access to those jutsu.

    And lets not forget that madara who had the eternal mangekyo still got his ass handed to him by shodi who did not even have rinnengan so it cant be that powerful.
     
  40. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    Madara awakened a new "Eternal" Mangekyo Sharingan which led to him acquiring immortality. With it Madara never had to fear the risk of losing his eyesight again. If his plans suceeds "The eye moon plan" Then thats were I refer to his next level up witch is Ultimate Mangekyo Sharingan.
     
  41. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    Not really. Yes, Rikudou-sennin was able to use the Rinnegan to set the foundation of modern ninjutsu, but that doesn't mean he created every single ninjutsu. Otherwise, Rasengan, Chidori/Raikiri, Kamui, and many other jutsu wouldn't have been considered original creations.
     
  42. shadowtkd Member

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    Very true but the rinnegan created everything needed to create those jutsu so its logical that someone with the rinnegan has the capacity to use any ninjutsu weather they created it or not.
     
  43. Mider T VM Rapist

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    Still is soul ripping, different causes same result.
     
  44. God Is extremely merciful for the right price

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    He never acquired immortality. His chakra allows him to live for longer.

    And, did he already explain his plan? Must have missed that chapter :oh
     
  45. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    No, the Rinnegan likely can't use Kekkei Genkai jutsu since the user would lack the required genetics.

    Of course, there is room for debate where elemental-fusion ninjutsu (Mokuton, Hyouton, Youton) are concerned.
    Except Pein's soul ripping was never indicated to seal the souls away.
     
  46. Griever Omne ignotum pro magnifico

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    Madara would have been the one takeing orders form nagato had Nagato had his original body and not the Six Paths of pain, the pain body's put Nagato at a lower power than Madara, Madara probably knows all about Nagato and his fighting style with the six paths thus with Madaras ability to well move anywhere he wants Nagato is not in a good position seeing as how if Madara when to Nagato's real body nagato wouldn't be able to fight back. ya see?.
     
  47. Andrew Jesus is the Savior

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    He did, during the battle between sasuke and Itachi, he said to Sasuke, "An Invincible immortal. Thats who Madara is." Itachi does not lie.
     
  48. Lelouch71 Zero

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    I didn't feel like reading past the first line. No offense but that was too much to read for something meager as the MS vs Rinnegan debate.
     
  49. Bartleby New Member

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    first off:ryoma

    Rinnegan > MS

    You fanboys keep basing Pein Vs Madara when it should be Pein Vs Itachi
    We have no idea how strong Rikkudo is but we know how strong Pein is
    We have no idea how strong Madara is but we know how strong Itachi is
    From whats been shown Pein > Itachi if we use those 2 people as a base for each doujutsu Rinnegan > MS
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  50. DatBoiDane pussy is my goal

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    hey i wonder can the sharingan revive ppl? does the sharingan make u more than life or death? nah i didnt think so. well the rinnegan can :zaru jus bcuz u can't see past the mandara is invincible fanfic bullshit does not give u the right to ignore the obvious. mandara did not go apeshit on the world bcuz he fears for his life. the man can die he has stated the fact. nagato was virtually immortal. it took naruto plus the kyuubi(eight of its tails) plus nature energy jus to take down nagato's puppets. the reason he died was bcuz he used the rinne tensei while exhausted. clearly u have forgotten that it is not the weapon but merely the beholder.

    mandara was bent on destruction. nagato was seeking peace. after the death of his dear brother-like friend mandara was able to trick grief stricken nagato into the path of destruction in search of peace.... DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH :taichou

    BUT since u are dense, here are som hard facts:

    1. amaterasu is absorbed by fatty pain

    2. tsukiyomi is a genjutsu. since nagato has the strongest chakra in existence, i doubt the genjutsu will even be casted on him since the pure strength of his chakra wud be way too hard to distort. also even if the genjutsu was cast it wud be easily broken.

    3. susanoo VS gedo mazo is just overkill


    sOrry cursedmangekyo u've failed to justify ur flawed logic :dupe
     
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