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The difference between "Enton" and "Enton: Kagu-tsuchi"

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by BlinkST, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    After Kabuto fight it's confirmed that Sasuke didn't have Tsukuyomi.
    While Itachi used Tsukuyomi to free his brother Sasuke used a generic "Sharingan Genjutsu".

    I'm sure if Sasuke had it, Kishimoto would point that with a big Tsukuyomi write in the panel. It also seems that he didn't inherit that jutsu from his brother's eyes.
     
  2. BlinkST Never too l8 for Rinne h8

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    Because the term does not refer to an elemental change. It's still a Katon. There's no literal Enton.

    X

    There are 3 ways to create the flames.

    1] Amaterasu
    2] Enton
    3] Susanoo

    The first way, is igniting the flames at your focal point, which causes the eye to bleed.
    Spoiler:
    X


    The third way, is through Susanoo, which doesn't cause the eye to bleed.
    Spoiler:
    X


    The second way, is modifying an existing flame to birth new flames, without having to repeatedly cast the jutsu Amaterasu. Which is quicker? Repeatedly casting Amaterasu, or using one flame to fire several flames. That's Enton as far as what I can tell.


    All that really shows is that Itachi is over-protective, and that genjutsu was not actually needed to achieve what was necessary. Unless we are to believe Generic genjutsu = Tsukuyomi

    Spoiler:
    X


    I suppose lack of the term "Tsukuyomi" means Itachi was not using Tsukuyomi at the time.
     
  3. IpHr0z3nI Active Member

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    Pardon me, but I'm not understanding your argument. Are you suggesting Sasuke has Tsukuyomi but no access to the S/T aspect property of it?

    If such is your argument, you do know the only thing that distinguishes them currently is the S/T aspect?

    Sharingan genjutsu is the only none MS portion of the Uchiha arsenal which has improved with power scaling, and the difference between the big boys of the MS genjutsu world: Tsukuyomi and Kotoamatsukami is it's ST aspect and ability to manipulate a shinobi without the victim being aware.

    As we've seen sharingan genjutsu show case events, paralyze, knockout, manipulate shinobi's/none shinobi's, etc. etc....

    There is little use in Sasuke having access to a Tsukuyomi without the S/T aspect, it'd be equivalent to the generic sharingan genjutsu.
     
  4. Sarry The guy sniping you out!

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    Great thread, but i disagree with the Tsukyomi part.
    That jutsu is specifc to Itachi alone, since it showcased his ability with Genjutsu. It was the strongest and more fatal jutsu Itachi could. Similar to how Shisui had Koto to himself, and it was not seen in any other Uchiha.

    Sasuke is not as able in Genjutsu as Itachi, and logically should not get Tsukyuomi. Sasuke does have his own Genjutsu, but it is not as potent as Itachi's due to their base skill.
     
  5. Dolohov27 Incinerated

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    This page pretty much proves that Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi.
    X Let it go dawg its over.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  6. shintebukuro Active Member

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    Let me suggest my angle:

    If you've ever read Inuyasha, you'll know that at the end of the series he is given this technique called "Meidou Zangetsuha" which creates a big sphere of darkness (from his sword) that encompasses the enemy and sends them to the afterlife. Eventually he is able to use it to its true strength, which consists of the same darkness that will kill you if you touch it, but this time it's in the shape of blades rather than a sphere.

    And the rationale for that was "A sword's true purpose is to cut."

    I believe Enton: Kagutsuchi follows that same pattern. It is the ability to control the flames of Amaterasu specifically into blades, which is fitting because this ability's primary purpose is to attack the enemy. Flames that can cut as well as burn really reflect its offensive purpose much better.

    Overall, Sasuke's right Mangekyou has the ability to control the flames of Amaterasu, but his "official" MS technique name is "Enton: Kagutsuchi" because it is the strongest form that the flames could ever be manifested into. It's given a Shinto God name to let us know it's the MS ability of that eye, but it's also preceded by "Enton:" so that we know it's a manipulation of an element (similar to Goukakyuu) and not its own separate thing.


    TLDR; Enton: Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's official right MS ability, and that's because the eye has the ability to control black flames and Kagutsuchi is the pinnacle of Sasuke's ability to do so (making them into blades -- an even more aggressive and offensive form).
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  7. Godaime Kazekage Praise Minato!

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    I liked the entire OP until I got to the end. Sasuke does not have Tsukuyomi. Give it up.
     
  8. Donquixote Doflamingo Master Puppeteer

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    I don't like that Enton comes from his other eye its a pretty underwhelming thing overall in my opinion.

    The left eye makes the greatest Flames, all the right eye does is let you manipulate it better Lame. I would much rather it be a Genjutsu or something entirely different.
     
  9. Godaime Kazekage Praise Minato!

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    Itachi is the only MS user that has shown radically different MS Jutsu. All the others have Jutsu that complement one another. Of course, we don't know of Izuna or Madara, but odds are that they follow the same pattern.
     
  10. BlinkST Never too l8 for Rinne h8

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    Nope.

    10 char

    Indeed. Itachi has Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Shisui has Koto'Amatsukami. Obito has Kamui. Sasuke has Amaterasu and.. The power to modify the fire? Out of those 4 people, Sasuke is the only one who has a worthless eye.

    With Itachi, you can get a strong ninjutsu or a strong genjutsu. With Shisui, it's a genjutsu. With Obito, it's a ninjutsu. Sasuke would be the only person who doesn't follow that convention. He'd be the only person who has an ocular jutsu that's dependant on another. That means unlike those 3 people, Sasuke's right eye is useless? Why? Because you still need the left eye to create the flames. Your right eye can't modify flames that don't exist.

    Let's think for a moment about how reasonable the proposition is of suh a break in convention. Because if this thread is any indication, there are actually people who made sense of that.
     
  11. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    Which was the point of my X, which you replied to expressing the same opinion, but convinced at the time that all Kagutsuchi amounted to was the spiked protrusions used against A back at the Kage Summit.

    Now all of a sudden, it only concerns spikey thangs in general... :LOS
     
  12. Godaime Kazekage Praise Minato!

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    Actually, you just gave me a great idea and I hope Kishi does this. What if his right allows Sasuke to controll any fire Jutsu? As in, he's effectively immune to katon.
     
  13. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    "God of Fire", yadda yadda.

    * SaiST points to the link above.

    :distracted
     
  14. IpHr0z3nI Active Member

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    I agree.

    It is underwhelming if you examine the traditional development of the sharingan.

    Which equates all to ONE TO ONE "One shot's" Or jutsu that causes the maximum amounts of trauma to a single shinobi.

    But the key word in that sentence is ONE TO ONE. There hasn't been a single AOE SHARINGAN jutsu absent perfect Susano.

    If Kagutschi/Enton manages to live up to it's potential, it could be potentially more beneficiary to Sasuke, than another Jutsu that essentially serves the same task as Amaterasu.(Killing/Besting a SINGLE OPPONENT) As it would allot Sasuke access to the AOE potential, in which many more prominent Uchiha have turned to the Rinnegan for.

    It could potentially make Sasuke's sharingan the most offensively broken among the lot. Especially if he was to gain access to Perfect Susano in the process.

    If your goal was to destroy a VILLAGE? One needs to potentially be able to cause mass destruction over a wide radius.

    If one of your future match ups is against a shinobi of whom depending on the form could potentially duplicate himself between 2 and 1000. One needs to potentially be able to cause mass destruction.
     
  15. Seiji Random Lurker

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    Ain't Kagutsuchi named after another Shinto god like Amaterasu, tsukuyomi and susano'o whatever? It makes sense if Kagutsuchi is Sauce's right ocular power as it goes with the pattern and it wouldn't make sense if Sauce's right eye contain two mangekyo powers right? Kagutsuchi and Tsukuyomi? Doesn't sound right.
     
  16. Arthas Anko's Lover

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    Problem with this is that it's fairly redundant.

    You have the strongest Fire attack in the Manga. If it actually burnt things like it was supposed to instead of merely toasting them, it would have no need to cut.

    Not to mention your post is wide open to the response that "A Flame's true purpose is to Burn."
     
  17. JPongo It's all about the Namikazes

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    Kakashi's gonna whip out his amakakeru-ryu-no-hirameki and beat Obito with it.

    Anyway, how would this Kagu-tsuchi compare with Madara's mega enton?
     
  18. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    While it would be a fitting technique for him, it hasn't been confirmed that Madara(or Izuna) possessed Amaterasu just yet... So, I'm assuming you meant to refer to the exceptionally large Katon he's been using.

    Amaterasu alone can conjure up enough Enton to overwhelm the Hachibi, factor in the Keitai Henka added by Kagutsuchi and there really shouldn't be any contest, no matter how much more powerful Madara's Katon are than what we usually see.
     
  19. shintebukuro Active Member

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    I'm well aware that it's redundant. That's just how shounen is, though. They did it in Inuyasha, and Rurouni Kenshin had a major villain whose fighting style revolved around his sword being able to cut and burn at the same time.

    That's true, but I think overall Sasuke leans toward an aggressive offensive ninjutsu fighting style, and a blade is kind of the symbol of "attacking" or "killing."

    It would make sense that his MS ability would reflect his natural inclination towards offensive ninjutsu, the result being able to transform the already "strongest physical attack" into something even more aggressive.
     

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