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"The Chosen One" needs to man up NOW.

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by Arya Stark, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. Arya Stark .

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    I mean, really? Really Kishi?

    Why we don't see Naruto "seriously" dwelling on these questions, thinking about a real solution?

    Even little Hashirama and Tobirama tries to find an answer in their own way.

    But Naruto is not even interested in the current situation of world. His priority is Sasuke.

    P.S: Priority. I mean he's saving the world because they're at war not because he wants to save. His mindset is : "I'll bring Sasuke back so I'll break the chain of hatred yada yada".

    This just doesn't make any sense.Yes, Sasuke is a part of chain of hatred but this is nothing in the bigger picture.

    When Obito put the problem on the table his answer was: "I don't care, it's your opinion, everything looks fine to me."

    or

    "Whatever happens we are shinobis, he'll live in my heart."

    Hashi states the obvious: "So the only way to live as true shinobi is to 'die' ?! It's a never ending cycle of death but no one here can even explain why it has to be that way!...This ideal of shinobi you have built in your head is twisted and wrong! "


    WHAT.THE.FUCK.KISHI.

    Now it just seems like Child of Prophecy is made for keeping Naruto relevant to main story line.

    His story feels the most forced, superficial one.

    Yeah he will beat the bad guys but he won't have %1 of the Hashirama's maturity. It'll happen not because Naruto wants it but it's the flow of things.

    Kishi plz give Naruto a fucking serious character development.

    Because if I find secondary casts' plot points more interesting then the main cast we have a problem here.

    p.s: I'll be very happy if he gains some character development on his own.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  2. kagegak Member

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    What are you talking about?
    Since the war has started naruto has only been talking about world peace and not about sasuke
     
  3. Danzio The Chosen One

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    Man up NOW or what? Will you beat him up?


    Naruto is actually the most mature he has ever been.
     
  4. Arya Stark .

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    It was more to emphasis on the immediate need of character development.

    I hope he's getting there but seeing better built characters are frustrating me.
    If you mean he accepts the system aka another step on becoming like Hashi's father, yes he is maturing up. :zaru
     
  5. Sarry The guy sniping you out!

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    inb4 Naruto fans come in to defend him.


    Yeah, the prophecy plot pretty much ruined Naruto and left him to be an superficial character, worrying only about everyone thinking the same as him. He'd even forcibly try to do it.


    I guess that's why Sasuke is the one asking the questions.
     
  6. Fay

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    I think it's interesting that Kishimoto choose Sasuke to ask these questions and choose Sasuke to get the answers...I am curious as to where Kishi is going with this, keeping in mind he promised us more plottwists :amuse
     
  7. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    Naruto was on these questions WAY before Kishimoto made it a theme of the manga. Back to Zabuza arc.


    Why do people have a short memory?

    X

    Learn your stuff, chief.

    Naruto is now in the present trying to stop the world from ending. Forgive him for not rezing the ramen guy of pre-konoha times to ask him about how many people died before he could fill their orders.
     
  8. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    Naruto's talk of world peace is as serious as every beauty pageant contestant talk of ending world hunger. It is empty talk

    Hashirama saw first hand how war ravages families. This instilled in him at a young age a genuine willingness to find an answer to a real question. Consequently, he devised a plan, though flawed to quell the constant wars. Naruto is simply doing what Jiraiya told him to do. His quest for peace is not genuine. He simply is trying to shelter Sasuke from being killed. He talks about understanding everyone but he never stopped to try and understand Obito. Ridiculous. Hashirama at 7 was much more self aware and introspective than current Naruto
     
  9. Arya Stark .

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    It's called no follow up.

    It's also called X.

    His peace speeches are extremely superficial and naive, showing his ignorancy on the topic.

    I hate how he's kept as ignorant to this stuff, I can't understand where Kishi is going with this.

    YES YES YES
     
  10. mayumi Active Member

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    Time of war where kids were being killed brutally like during hashirama times has passed. Do you see konohamaru and moegi and udan fighting in the war? Do you?

    hashirama's plan was flawed. his village based system did not create a peace. Infact he was primarily responsible for the jin based system in villages. ok killing of kids stopped but kids form all villages have to take resposibility have having bijuus within them and living a life of hate. carry the burden for the village.

    Seriously people just blow shit up like crazy every week.
     
  11. Arya Stark .

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    > Naruto is given to job of giving world the peace

    > He falls flat compared to others

    > If he is not experienced than why give him such "deep" job?

    > He needs character development.
    my point.
     
  12. Oberyn Nymeros Active Member

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    he dwells on it all the time...its just that he's a simpleton.
    so is naruto.
    this is simply false. he rarely thinks about sasuke these days.
    I actually thought that was a really good answer. if you cant protect your comrades, keep their spirit going and endure.
    he's had a ton of serious development.

    I really dont agree with any of your bitching.

    excellent point.
     
  13. Sarry The guy sniping you out!

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    I agree with this!.

    +reps
     
  14. Mansali House Lannister

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    Watch as Hashirama himself proves you wrong.

    Naruto has a genuine reason for peace.... I dont know where you got the idea that he isnt genuine?

    He is still looking for a solution and I am pretty sure that not even Hashirama came up with a solution untill he was an adult.
     
  15. kagegak Member

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    You and me both know that naruto will find the answer to world peace
    Hashirama jiraiya minato and Nagato couldn't do it
    And his quest for peace has become genuine after Jiraiyas death
     
  16. mayumi Active Member

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    But you admit hashirama failed despite his efforts, right? None of the bijuus have given a fuck about him. Hashirama might have been a great ninja but he seemed to not have much emotion for the bijuus. he like madara might have seen them as just monsters who have no brains.
     
  17. Danzio The Chosen One

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    You mean like how he challenged the system before he could even defend himself like a pro? Did you happen to miss the whole Haku/Zabuza arc ? He did the same with Gaara. It was exactly the same theme as this week's chapter, and it was Naruto who stood up and took people by surprise, even Kakashi.


    Also, Naruto had plenty of character development in this very war. He came to the much needed realizations that he might have to kill Sasuke, his previous obsession, to get him back. He's found out that he can not save every individual (needs help), no matter how strong he is, but that he can keep trying and that it's worth the effort as long as there's the possibility of peace. He wants to change the system, now with help from his comrades; who knows how it will end up, but since he's the protagonist I assume it will work itself out.
     
  18. Arya Stark .

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    We don't have any information on bijuu part but I agree that he failed. Hence why ninja system evolved and wars went on.

    You at least understand my point, danke bitte.

    The last thing he said on the topic was "We are shinobis, we are meant to endure.He'll live in my heart."

    aka acceptance of the system which is currently a let down for me.
     
  19. shintebukuro Active Member

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    Naruto is supposed to be a character that people can relate to.
     
  20. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    But that's not true. It's been a constant thesis of Naruto character arc.

    X

    This is the earliest. Just because it happens in drips over time doesn't mean its not happening.

    In fact, for a long time Naruto was the ONLY one questioning the ninja way.

    Some character asking one question at one moment can't compare to a character constantly dealing with the problem.

    Let's look at Hashirama. In his goal to stop children getting killed, he failed big time. As for Sasuke, we don't even know what his conclusion will be. Naruto, no matter how forced it seems to you, is the only character whose story has been constantly tied to the question, and Secondary characters are just now getting around to asking it.
     
  21. Mansali House Lannister

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    No he hasnt accepted the system. I have no idea where you got that from.

    Find some concrete evidence that shows that Naruto loves the current shinobi system.

    Telling his comrades that Neji will live in their heart is not the same as agreeing with the cycle of hatred.
     
  22. Arya Stark .

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    X
    X
     
  23. mrsaphen Obito> ur fav char.

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    I can't relate to him. Can you?
     
  24. Addy itachi is everywhere!!

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    war and peace related themes/shit were forced on naruto........ hashirama and madara were born in it like nagato and yahiko.
     
  25. Mansali House Lannister

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    So Naruto talking about Neji being in his heart means that he has suddenly decided to accept the current system. Right...................

    I know what your trying to say but your nitpicking something so small.

    Because he is calling himself a shinobi and telling the otheres to endure and not give up....it translates to him being a conformist??
     
  26. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    His quest is not genuine because it did not start from within. Naruto did not care one bit about peace until Jiraiya told him to. Also, he does not care enough about peace to do the necessary work to achieve it. He is willing to shelter Sasuke and sacrifice everyone else for selfish reasons. He claims to want to understand Sasuke but never stopped to try and understand Madara, Tobi or Zetsu. Those people he mows down without hesitation. Sasuke on the other hand, he is ready to forgive his crimes.

    You and I both know that Kishi will say Naruto found the answer but the truth is whatever answer Naruto comes up will not create everlasting peace
     
  27. mayumi Active Member

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    I think it is difficult to naruto to relate like hashi and madara did because they were in times of wars and they had families and lost them etc. naruto's similarly can only relate to those such as the other jins because he knows the presecution they have faced being jins and by the system created by hashirama. thankfully naruto has gained the confidence of the bijuus and the jins before they passed.

    it is up to naruto to break the current system of jins, what he does with the bijuus and the little clan based mindedness that still exists in konoha like uchiha fueding with konoha higher ups who are either old or long gone.

    I think we need to ask ourselves does the current naruto world really even need the shinobi system? the way the alliance has performed in the war where they really did put a united front and put aside their differences so that they don't get genjutsu-fecked to live in a imaginary world that tobi wants to create was the productive event of the war.

    It might not be all peachy after the war is over but the trust and understanding is what is the key to alliances. naruto has already formed them with the bijuus and the shinobi countries. Only one left is sasuke who is stuck in a clan based mindedness.

    it is kinda similar to the current world where people are more open minded about different cultures and religions but there are still bigots who say racist stuff but there is progress as well.
     
  28. Skywalker Imperial Conqueror

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    Because Naruto forces his opinion into everyone's ass, don't like my way of thinking? don't want peace? Well fuck you.
     
  29. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    I'm laughing that this thread. Am I the only one that remembers that Naruto was the loud, brash, disrespectful, ninja, that rejected shinobi customs, honorifics, and the entire goal of the Shinobi world.


    Am I the only one that remembers part one?
     
  30. Danzio The Chosen One

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    He's fighting a war. Soldiers are meant to endure that much is a given, it's doesn't matter what ideology lie behind the army. The ideas of the men controlling them can change- it certainly will under Naruto- but the men protecting nations have to be tough and endure since they will go insane otherwise.It has nothing to do with whether or not Naruto agrees with the program, which he obviously doesn't (we know that since we have followed his character).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  31. Oberyn Nymeros Active Member

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    This is your complaint? He is a shinobi, and shinobi are meant to endure. How does saying this show an acceptance of the system?
     
  32. kagegak Member

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    Please don't be in denial about this
    Narutos answer will create peace amongst all villages because the manga will end by that point

    If kishimoto is implying that he will find the answer then no one can convince me otherwise
     
  33. Luffyfangirl24 Luffy fan

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    What??? Naruto isn't obssesing over him at all right now, what chapter are you at?
     
  34. LesExit Empty without rats...

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    I really don't think Naruto is going to have some amazing original idea to achieve peace. I think he's going to end the cycle of hate between the Uchiha and the village with Sasuke and then I think all the villages are going to continue to be in an alliance as they are now. Though bad things are still going to happen, thats just being realistic.

    I really hate how Naruto is all of a sudden this child of destiny, it has made me kina dislike his character. Mostly because in Part 1 we heard him screaming about how everyone formed their own destiny....and well basically all he really doing is following his.
     
  35. Seraphiel Meem Magician

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    He wasn't that person ever since land of waves ended though. Except for the flashback Kakashi had about him saying he liked Zabuza and Haku.
     
  36. Oberyn Nymeros Active Member

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    This i agree with. I doubt Naruto will actually succeed.
     
  37. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    I think Naruto might take everyone's jutsu.
     
  38. Arya Stark .

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    JEEZ PEOPLE.

    Priority. I mean he's saving the world because they're at war not because he wants to save. His mindset is : "I'll bring Sasuke back so I'll break the chain of hatred yada yada".

    X
    But then Kishi reseted everything and he started to hyperventilate. :zaru

    This is a great idea actually.
     
  39. Melas Active Member

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    Another of these threads.

    Its really simple, all the people that you lionize above Naruto were failures in their intended goals no matter how early or how much they thought about it. In fact, they only made it worse on the whole and their legacy has led the situation to the present with the freaking Juubi being revived, something none of these people had to content with in their time.

    Now, you might find Naruto lacking in serious deliberation or as some argue "his ideas not coming from within" whatever that means, thats your prerogative. Consequently you are setting yourself up for bitching about ass-pulls, PnJ etc.

    All this has been debated to death and nothing new is likely to emerge from another round based on Hashi asking same stuff again.
     
  40. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    I am not in denial. Unless you change human nature, you can't find true peace.
     
  41. Oberyn Nymeros Active Member

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    so theyll fight with guns instead of jutsu. that wouldnt solve anything.
    and whats wrong with that? I like that naruto started on this path cause everyone told him he had to. even before the war, he was giving the problem some thought. are you complaining that he isnt solving the problem fast enough? he's only 16.
    when's the last time naruto gave a shit about sasuke?
     
  42. Raiden I'm with <b><font color="#ff6600">COCO</font></b>

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    Are we getting into lofty debates about peace again :pek?

    Shodai specifically dreamed about an Alliance in this chapter. Look at what we have now.
     
  43. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    My point is, Naruto has been going against the grain since jump street. He's still like that but has basically just had to deal with one Akatsuki member after another. He's had virtually no down time.

    Hashirama's backstory is new. Sasuke has been taking the ninja system for granted up until Itachi's revelation. But Naruto has always been actively rejecting shinobi stuff, mostly because they rejected him, so long that it's his character.

    Pretending that he's now conformed is laughable. That's like my saying that Leonardo Da Vinci took to inventing because he lost his talent as a painter. It's a leap in logic disguised with specific details.

    I didn't say it would work. There's just this mindset that disarming people makes them docile. I think Kishimoto follows that mindset.
     
  44. Melas Active Member

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    You being unconvinced with it does not prevent it from being canon.

    If the author call it is true peace, as far as the story is concerned it is, yours arguments and their validity non-withstanding.

    To me a seven year old with real wisdom is idiotic, particularly considering his subsequent actions, that does not mean its not so as far as the story is concerned.
     
  45. mayumi Active Member

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    Yup Shodai just needs to get his ass on the battle field to see himself the ninja kurama-naruto powered chakra alliance naruto created. Then naruto can troll him and ask him who the hell is he? :laugh
     
  46. Oberyn Nymeros Active Member

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    really? I think kishi has done a fair job of exploring the story from every angle.
     
  47. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    If you think that Kishi will not create follow up stories to the Naruto story will you be highly disappointed. The money is too good for Kishi to let go. In those stories, conflict will exist

    A 7 year old with the experiences of Hashirama could be wise. That much is true.
     
  48. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit. I just can't imagine that he's up to the task of answer the big questions that he asked.

    When people can't answer big questions, they usually find a scapegoat. I think that maybe ninjutsu will be it.

    I hope that's not the case.
     
  49. Herekic Deal with it

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    All of naruto's speeches in the past 100 chapters have been lame, elementary school level BS.

    It's all just empty posturing. he never says how he'll do anything, or the underlying reason. he just gives his retarded little speech and everyone just nods along as if he actually said something of value


    Obito, and even nagato both made alot more sense, and spoke from experience

    Not idealist BS about shit they've never even seen
     
  50. Sword Sage Swordsman in Training

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    I do agree, it's why I think the rest of Hashirama story should be saved after the Juubi war for Naruto.


    Naruto is the Chosen one not Sasuke. I wouldn't be surprised that Hiruzen knew Naruto was the chosen one but was in denial and believe Sasuke was.
     
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