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Thanos (with HOTU) VS Pre-Retcon Beyonder

Discussion in 'Comics Battledome' started by Luna, Aug 28, 2012.

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  1. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Both of these guys are above even the Living Tribunal himself, and probably close to TOAA in power as well (but still below him though). So, who will win this match? No PIS and CIS, but BFR is allowed. Characters are both bloodlusted and at full power, and all morals, if any at all, are off. Fight takes place in an abandoned galaxy devoid of all life. Who takes this match? Sorry if this match has been done before.
     
  2. Endless Mike Getting too old for this shit

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    Done before several times.
     
  3. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Sorry then.
     
  4. The Mad King The Gent

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    Dr. Doom comes out on top :LOS.
     
  5. posterer Member

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    Thanos with the heart of the universe.
     
  6. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    I thouht Pre-Retcon Beyonder was more powerful.
     
  7. Lord Raizen The Warrior God

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    Just for the record, no one is "close to" the TOAA in power.

    Some characters may be the next tier below him, but one cannot be "close to" infinity.
     
  8. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Thanks for letting me know. I've been on other sites that did this same battle, and I remember that everyone kept on saying that Beyonder and Thanos were close to TOAA in power, so I believed it. Again, thanks for clearing this up for me.
     
  9. Stermor Active Member

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    i was under the impression that pre retcon beyonder was the strongest nigh omnipotent out there, then pre retcon molecule man, then hotu thanos?? then a long gap of nothing?
     
  10. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    I thought the same thing, except I would put Thanos above Molecule Man, and put LT between them.
     
  11. Stermor Active Member

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    Molecule man was several steps above the lt. both him and the beyonder were much much more powerful then the lt..

    thanos with hotu is arguable.. but i was under the impression that pre retcon beyonder and molecule man were considerd the top dogs..
     
  12. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    I didn't know MM was more powerful than LT. Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up for me. But I figured Thanos with the HOTU was between Pre-Retcon Beyonder and MM. Perhaps I was wrong, maybe?
     
  13. Superman Man of Steel

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    wait wait wait...those two are conisdred above the Living Tribunal? Seriously? I think I need to reread those two arcs.
     
  14. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Yeah, they're both above LT himself. Beyonder was affecting the entire Marvel multiverse or omniverse, or something like that, all at once. Even LT feared him and begged him not to do everything he did. Thanos with the HOTU is more powerful than LT as well, though I can't remember any massive feats he had.
     
  15. Superman Man of Steel

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    I can understand HOTU Thanos being more powerful but I did not remember pre rec Beyonder had that much power.
     
  16. Stermor Active Member

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    its pretty much like this..
    pre retcon beyonder was 1000s of times more powerful then the entire marvel onmiverse?(everything bar toaa i believe?) put together.. which includes both pre retcon molecule man and the lt..

    the molecule man could withstand the beyonder for a while..

    while thanos with hotu was more powerful then the lt..

    but we don't excatly know how much.. for both thanos and molecule man..

    but personally i would rate standing up to pre retcon beyonder as beyond even hotu thanos.. not something you can say for certain though..
     
  17. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    It's true. I think I remember him traveling from one end of the universe to the other in the blink of an eye, scanning the entire span of the cosmos in a millisecond, beating all the Celestials at once with one blast, removing Death itself from existence for a while, resurrecting an entire planet's ecosystem with a wave of his hand or something, destroyed an entire universe or something just by thinking, and fought such a fierce battle with Molecule Man that affected every time period in history and reality in existence all at once, and he did all of this while holding back.
     
  18. Weiss What We Do In Life Echoes In Eternity

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    LT was PR Beyonders bitch
     
  19. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    LOL. Yeah, this pretty much sums up how powerful PR Beyonder was.
     
  20. Superman Man of Steel

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    Only time I remember PR Beyonder is from Secret Wars. When did he display all these other powers?
     
  21. Strange of Eternity Avatar of Eternity

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    All the Living Verse was his bitch, they all bagged him not to kill Death and he does it anyway without anybody even think of getting in his way.
     
  22. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    They're all from it's sequel, Secret Wars II, if I'm not mistaken.
     
  23. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Yeah, Beyonder sure was awesome.
     
  24. The Mad King The Gent

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    PR Beyonder was the reincarnation of TOAA IIRC.

    And Dr. Doom was the one to take away all his Power, and gave it up because he got bored :datass.
     
  25. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Beyonder was TOAA's reincarnation? I thought that they were two completely different entities.
     
  26. The Mad King The Gent

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    I remember having an argument about his power compared to TOAA on another website and they gave me that answer as to why he was much powerful than LT.

    It could be wrong.
     
  27. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    I'm pretty sure it is. TOAA is basically God himself. Beyonder is just an extremly powerful being from another universe or something.
     
  28. Lord Raizen The Warrior God

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    The Beyonder is no ones reincarnation.

    You're not helping anyone by citing information if you aren't sure of it's validity, especially when your source is from an entirely different forum.
     
  29. The Mad King The Gent

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    I did not cite anything I stated it which I indicated clearly it was an assumption.

    Still there is no clear explanation as to why Beyonder power grew that large and surpassed who TOAA put as his number 2 .
     
  30. Weiss What We Do In Life Echoes In Eternity

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    isn't that why he was retconned ? :maybe
     
  31. Wolfgang Grimmer Magnificent Steiner

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    secret wars II
     
  32. Xrdv Member

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    I was more impressed with PR Beyonder's feats.

    In my opinion PR Beyonder > Thanos HOTU
     
  33. Stermor Active Member

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    pre retcon beyonder is above the thanos hotu for sure.. he was called 1000s of times more powerful then the entirety of marvel omniverse put together(barring toaa) which pretty much means he stronger then thanos, he is stronger then the lt. he is stronger then pre retcon molecule man.. there is no doubt at all about that..

    the only thing you could discuss is wether thanos with hotu is stronger then pre retcon molecule man.. since both are stronger then the lt..

    personally i consider pre retcon molecule man as beyond thanos purely because the beyonder considered him the only person who could possible understand him.. and he managed to withstand the beyonder for a while..
     
  34. Tranquil Fury Leech Lord

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    No Pre retcon Beyonder is not 100% stronger than a character that draws upon some of TOAA's power. He did nothing that Thanos with HOTU could not do. Beyonder and MM are also above LT but they don't draw upon TOAA's power source. Thanos has greater power source if TOAA wants or feels like it, Beyonder and MM can't separate Thanos unless TOAA feels like it.

    House of M Wanda drawed power from the life force which Doom later claimed as his own and when he gained greater power from more of the Life force he described himself as joining with the creator, he called it greater than when he had Beyonder's power as per Avenger's Children's Crusade series. HOTU draws upon similar power and Thanos can handle it unlike Doom who got burnt out. Thanos with HOTU was also above everything in Marvel combined, he did'nt even use all his power and he gave it up on his own(it's implied TOAA was manipulating him the whole time).

    No Beyonder was not 1000x stronger than the omniverse, he made the Marvel multiverse look small/bacteria like but when you're above the Living Tribunal that's a given. TOAA is above everything in Marvel including the Beyonders, Thanos draws enough power that there is no way you can claim Beyonder is better, equal at best unless Thanos is given far greater amounts of TOAA's power by the latter.

    PR Beyonder is not TOAA, his powers have been weakened while TOAA still exists as supreme cosmic entity that should make it obvious.

    This thread is done so many times it's getting tiresome, the general consensus is stalemate and I'll go with that.
     
  35. Xrdv Member

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    And can Thanos draw enough power to be above PR Beyonder?

    Because someone draws power from a certain deity/whatever usually does not mean they can draw all of said deity's power. Usually there is a limit (be it because said deity does not want to give more, can not give more(not a problem here), the user can't take more, the object used for transfering power has a limit)
     
  36. Tranquil Fury Leech Lord

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    Doom drew enough power from the life force to consider his power beyond what it was when he had Beyonder's power, Thanos draws that same power though HOTU. Even a small fraction of the power that created the Beyonders, the omniverse and everything in it is not something inferior to Beyonder. Why claim Beyonder is better when he has done nothing HOTU could?Even going off the limit explain how Beyonder separates Thanos from TOAA since TOAA was the one who allowed that in the first place?This basically does come down to TOAA's whim.

    They can't kill him or separate him unless TOAA allows it. HOTU is also able to make the Marvel multiverse look like bacteria, Thanos gave up the power he was never separated or defeated by anyone in the Omniverse. TOAA is the only one who decides that, it's how Thanos got the HOTU in the first place, nothing happens unless TOAA allows it. If he has HOTU then for the sake of this battle TOAA is allowing it, Beyonder has no say in the matter of whether he can kill or separate Thanos.

    Both HOTU and Pre retcon Beyonder are ridiculously wanked out but I would not put HOTU as inferior to Beyonder.

    EDIT
    Joining his mind with the creator
    Spoiler:
    X


    Calls it greater than when he had the Beyonder's power
    Spoiler:
    X


    Thanos did not burn out however. TOAA seems to enjoy trolling or manipulating things. Note I am still not saying Thanos wins but I'm pointing out that HOTU is not inferior to Beyonder(could be post retcon but the implications such as joining with the creator imply they want to compare it to pre retcon), Doom clearly did not see it as such despite having had Beyonder's powers once. Regardless at this point it comes down to fanboyism and I'm not interested in that so I'll take my leave.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  37. Superman Man of Steel

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    Ok so I see how strong pr beyonder was after skimming through SWII. But I do not think he can beat Thanos with HOTU. And by skimming through it seems it takes a great deal of his power to kill death, not so much to recreate death. So yeah it looks like he can defeat LT, do not see how since it seems his power is also limitless and from TOAA, but it would not be a stomp.
     
  38. Stermor Active Member

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    i thought some high lvl deity(not sure who anymore) said that the beyonder was far far beyond anything in the onmiverse(bar toaa ofcourse..) somebody high enough on the food chain that he should have known about hotu, and be able to predict how powerful thanos could be..

    when i go back to my parents house i'll go reread the issue..
     
  39. Endless Mike Getting too old for this shit

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    If you want to go by retcon logic, at that point HOTU was still part of TOAA, and TOAA is outside of the omniverse. (Although I don't recall the term "omniverse" ever being used in SWII, I don't think it had been introduced yet).
     
  40. Lord Raizen The Warrior God

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    Pretty much.

    Nah, they still used "multiverse".
     
  41. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Okay then. I guess a stalemate is a good enough outcome for this match. Also, I'm sorry for making another one of these threads. I did not previously know that it had already been done at the time that I made this one.
     
  42. Weiss What We Do In Life Echoes In Eternity

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    these 2 are pretty much the strongest entities in fiction barring TOAA/"omnipotents"

    a tie works just fine
     
  43. Luna Manlier Than Ever!

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    Yeah, I pretty much agree with you there.
     
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