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    Have some bad ideas? This is your chance!
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Suggestions and Concerns

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Saru, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Saru slave to ambition Moderator

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    Hi everyone!

    As many of you may have realized, the NF staff is in the process of discussing the direction of the forum. This thread is a place for everyone here to voice their suggestions and concerns about the direction of the Naruto Battledome in particular. I've transferred some suggestions from the restructuring proposal (http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/feedback-on-possible-battledome-section-restructuring.1087503/) thread here. Feel free to add more.

    Suggestions:
    • have more NBD Tournaments
    • have more member contests
    • clean up current stickies (@Bonly what do you mean by this?)
    • make a general consensus tier list
    • section banners
    • ranking system
    Concerns:

    Bring up any ideas or concerns you have, and I'll add them to the list!
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
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  2. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    :giogio

    Please don't do this. It's ultimately going to used as an argument in debates, and is going to cause a shitstorm if people don't agree with where their characters were placed.
     
  3. La presagio Ban camp general.

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    I liked the whole idea of not just having debater of the month but numerous categories an debater can win.

    ^^^this^^^ people brains will explode and huge arguments and debates will happen im not to concerned about the debating part though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2016
  4. HandfullofNaruto The King of Carrot Flowers

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    Nobody uses the General Consensus argument these days & when they do 90% of us ignore it. General Consensus doesn't actually mean anything & we could make that clear when creating this "General Consensus Tier List"
     
  5. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    1. Agree 100%
    2. Agree 100%
    3. He means (I assume) that there's far too many pinned topics, they currently take up at least half the first page
    4. God no. Like others have stated, people will use it as an argument, when sometimes the general consensus is awful (see Minato beats Itachi)
    (My suggestions)
    5. Most of them are here as i've voiced in the other thread when discussing BD Reconstruction.

    6. Mods shouldn't ignore members in PM's because they (the mods) made a mistake

    You can't deny that people will without a doubt start using general consensus as an argument. And I do see the general consensus argument come up from time to time, it's almost as annoying as Databook Stats argument
     
  6. La presagio Ban camp general.

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    Hmm..and don't lock good or interesting threads. Threads like posters discussing overrated characters or underrated ones.
     
  7. Sapherosth One post man

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    Have more member contests, that's my vote.

    The tournament thing is a given, maybe every 2-3 months, but I noticed the longer it went on the more people lost interest.

    Some advice for the next tournament -

    1. Keep word limit at 500 max for all matches except the final - People can't be asked to read/analyse. Additionally, have people vote for what matches they want to see, so you won't be creating unbalanced/uninteresting matches.

    2. Have a clear voting criteria for voters - This creates consistent voting and it tells voters what to look for in an argument (I believe Daviz posted a similar format to what I was thinking in the final match).

    3. Participants have to be voted INTO the tournament, so that means that the people who are participating are people who will make the tournament interesting and the people who voted them in will most likely participate in the tournament.


    Just some general ideas.
     
  8. HandfullofNaruto The King of Carrot Flowers

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    General consensus is relevant if it's in addition to a detailed argument. I'm saying that General Consesus alone as an argument is trash & if anyone tries to use that as their argument 90% of us will ignore it.
     
  9. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    This is actually a great idea.
     
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  10. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    I like this as opposed to the first come first serve kinda thing with these tournaments that just wrapped up.
     
  11. adeshina365 Destruction Incarnate

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    Members who have proven to consistently utilize logic and manga facts should be branded with some sort of expert identifier.
     
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  12. Saru slave to ambition Moderator

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    This is an interesting one. We may actually be able to do something like this in the near future. :hm

    We'd have to come up with some qualification criteria though.
     
  13. Puppetry Ōkashō

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    A general consensus tier list would just shift the burden of proof to posters with unusual opinions.

    Don't like the tier list? Too bad, now you have to argue against it.
     
  14. ARGUS The conqueror

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    Relying on majority opinion and treating it as a valid source is probably one of the worst things to go by.

    Why?

    1. It prevents proper discussion of any battles

    2. It discourages any new opinions or insights to the battle

    3. Is avoiding the events of them the manga and just going by popularity.

    Majority opinion throughout the forums was that Itachi >> Nagato and EDo madara >> Hashirama.
    Clearly terrible ass points, backed up by no evidence which were then refuted by the manga
     
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  15. theBeginning Viva la revolución

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    Number of votes acquired by the contestants in the NDB debate tournament might be a good start imo.
     
  16. Saru slave to ambition Moderator

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    On the tier list:

    A lot of people probably won't like the idea (myself included), but I wanted to bring it up for discussion nonetheless. Regardless of how I feel, there's a way to go about doing it that doesn't stifle creativity, I think. If the tier list is something broad, like this:

    Then I think we could work with something. Especially if there's a disclaimer like HoN mentioned. We could also make it a rule not to use the tier list as the sole justification for your argument. Again, not my favorite idea, but these are all options we can take.
     
  17. Bonly Fire Fist

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    I didn't say anything about cleaning up the stickies, at least I don't think so. I just said fixed them like it was before. For example when I post in this thread, this thread is still gonna be the sixth thread down the list. Before hand it would be at the top of the page as it was the thread with the most recent post.
     
  18. DaVizWiz ║╝‎‎ ‎‎╠╣ ║

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    The tier list would obviously be fun for everyone to contribute on for that month or so.

    The problem is it does discourage debating, how many threads have we seen lately about ranking individual shinobi?
    -Rank Akatuski
    -How do you guys rank Muu?
    -Top 20 shinobi: is Itachi in it?
    -Rank Kisame
    -DEIDARA IS STRONGER THAN KISAME AND HERES WHY

    The tier list would innately discourage these threads from being made, because the posters need only look at the tier list to see what the consensus is on all shinobi and where they fall in comparison to themselves.

    In other words, don't do it.

    I have no issue ranking the skills of the individual shinobi and documenting them in a thread though, that's just a way to guage how powerful the section thinks certain shinobi are in certain categories, sort of like an extended databook scoring from all the members on all characters over time, a hopefully more accurate one.

    That won't stop certain thrreads from being made in the future, seeing as no one really does skill scoring threads often, and an overall skill score for a shinobi wouldn't dictate where they fall on a tier list, because versatility isn't necessarily power, it takes a much more detailed anaylsis of the shinobi's abilities individually to place them correctly on a tier list.

    For instance, Onoki's greatest skills would reside within a Ninjutsu score section, but he is below average at Genjutsu and Taijutsu, that doesn't change the fact that his ninjutsu is so overwhelmingly useful/powerful that he would be ranked higher than a shinobi like MS Kakashi, despite MS Kakashi being adept at all three categories.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  19. Saru slave to ambition Moderator

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    Oh, that. I did some fooling around with the stickies, but the intention is to have the rules and guides of the NBD be the first thing on display when new members come to the NBD. I can lower the priority of some of the threads, but I don't think it makes a huge difference since Xenforo lets you see whether something new has been posted in a thread or not (and the stickied threads never have anything new in them, so... ).
     
  20. WorldsStrongest One of a Dying Breed

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    I second this, a general consensus tier list is not the best idea imo, as many have stated, it will simply promote terrible debating, people will hide behind the tier list rather than substantiate their opinions whatsoever.

    And again, as others have already pointed out, it limits the types of threads that can be made, like any "Rank X shinobi under Y circumstances" or really any Vs battle thread, most comments in a thread like "Muu Vs Gaara" would simply consist of "refer to consensus list and /thread... gaara stomps because 11 people said so a year ago" or something along those lines.

    An agreed upon tier list, while a fun idea for five minutes on paper for sure, discourages overall creativity on the forum in the long run.

    I like this idea, itd be a nice change of pace, maybe once a month or every two months a new debate tournament of some kind is held.

    This seems interesting as well.
     
  21. Saru slave to ambition Moderator

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    Hmm. I think when some of you think of "tier list," you're thinking of a rigorous ranking list of sorts. However, we could do something like this:

    I really don't see how something this broad this discourages thread-making. It might discourage unbalanced thread-making (for example, Deidara vs. Hashirama), but that'd be a good thing, not a bad thing. It's not like people often make threads about or rank characters of a completely different class, like "Neji vs. Tsunade," or "Hiashi vs. Mei." Just playing devil's advocate here.
     
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  22. JiraiyaFlash Satô no Kyoki

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    We can do a league poll for Naruto chars and we can make legimit tier list about Naruto chars with NF users/posters

    NBD Tournaments are great for atraction and couragement.

    Also we must exhort/supported the poster who is able to or willing to make fanfictions, respect threads, reviews or detailed argumentary posts.

    And all debaters are in the NBD .. No one use General segments

    And NF Staff must check out NBD topics more delicately.. I saw topics like there is no location no info none condition none images.. This is must be filtered ..
     
  23. Bonly Fire Fist

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    The way it you put it is fine now, it just didn't make sense to me to have a thread get posted in, and it pop up near the bottom as opposed to the top since that's how it usually worked.
     
  24. DaVizWiz ║╝‎‎ ‎‎╠╣ ║

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    That discourages people from making ranking threads like the ones I noted.

    Even if the general guideline list, which is what you're trying to sell a tier list as, it's still a tier list after all, doesn't affect individual combat matchups.

    I like going into a debate where we try to find out where Kisame is ranked, Mu is ranked, and debate on it.

    If they've already been debated on by everyone and put into a consensus position on a tier list, those threads don't get made in the future because OP has no reason to put them up when he can already see the consensus on where they're ranked.

    Unless you're implying they wouldn't be put in order from strongest to weakest, and the characters were merely randomly put into the 4 classes you presented if we think they belong in that class.

    In that case, they aren't really ranked, but merely put at a general level of strength, which is pretty useless when you only have 4 classes IMO, because you'd have a shinobi like Mei in the same class as Killer Bee (Kage Class), which is just absurd.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  25. Saru slave to ambition Moderator

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    That's debatable, I think. That's also where the generality comes in. But with any tier list approach, I think generality is superior to specificity to avoid the issues you mentioned.
     
  26. Platypus Well-Known Member

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    Would like some more feedback about a possible merge with Akihabara Gallery. :cattired

    /threads/forum-naruto-avenue-akihabara-gallery.1087281/

    "Integrate Naruto Avenue into Akihabara Gallery? Yes or No?"

    (Moving to Akihabara Gallery won't affect you guys if you decide to become part of a bigger 'Battledome' subforum.)
     
  27. Turrin 玄武

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    Here's My Idea.

    NBD Rankings. The Naruto World has a ranking system from Academy Student to Kage. Why not do the same with the NBD.

    We can have two Ranking

    Combat-Ranks
    Teacher-Ranks

    Combat-Ranks:

    Academy Student
    Genin
    Chunin
    Special Jonin
    Jonin
    Kage
    Legendary Kage

    Teacher-Ranks:

    Student
    Examiner
    Elite Examiner
    Sensei
    Professor
    Sage
    Elder Sage

    Combat-Ranks can be achieved by getting high placements in major events, while teacher ranks can be achieved by providing quality support to these events. Additionally both a Rank up in both Ranks can be achieved via Monthly Voting (I.E. Replacing Monthly Voting with Rank Up Voting).

    -----

    So let me give an example.

    Let's say Next Month we have an event called:

    Academy Graduation Exam

    In this event like Ryu's tournament, but since it's only an Academy Exam we maybe make the event quicker with smaller word count and perhaps absences of rebuttals.

    Then let's say 25 people participate. We can award the Top 5 or Top 3 placers with Rank of Genin. Perhaps give the winner the title of Top-Genin or No 1 Genin.

    Then at the same time we can have people volunteer to be organizers. These individuals would be required to plan out rounds, tally votes, and produce high quality votes themselves in a certain number of matches. If these individuals perform these tasks aptly, then they will be awarded the title of Examiner at the end of the event. With maybe Examiners voting for MVP, and that person being awarded Top Examiner.


    Then maybe next month or two we'd host a similar event.

    Then once we have enough people who have the Genin Rank we could host a Chunin Exams, where the match criteria will be more challenging for competitors and therefore more challenging for Organizers to create. With those placing earning the title of Chunin and those examiners doing their job correctly, being promoted to Elite Examiner.

    Then in later ranks we can have maybe individual duels and different style events to rank up higher.
    --------

    Now Let me explain why I think this would be good for the NBD

    1) It would encourage people to participate in NBD Events, for the chance of ranking up and being distinguished as quality posters.

    2) It would be a on-going process, considering it would not be easy to achieve the higher ranks, so it would keep traffic into NBD for a long time, not just for 1 or 2 events until people eventually get burned out. We can also eventually add other Ranks later on once enough people have achieved Legendary-Kage and Elder-Sage, so it has growth potential even beyond what I outlined here

    3) The duel ranking system would ensure that even after someone became Genin or Examiner, they could participate on the other end to achieve Ranks in that system. I.E. if Empathy wins the tournament and become a Genin, and then we have another Achademy Exams Tournament Next Month, he could than participate as an organizer to earn the rank of Examiner.

    4) If we do Rank up voting at the end of the month it would incentivize traffic and quality posting in threads outside the event as you can Rank up by being voted for your posts outside of the main events as well.

    ------

    Of course this would require greater refinement and significant planning, but I think that it would be worthwhile for the forum, and if Naruto-Fan pays me I'll organize the whole thing :zaru

    But in all seriousness I think it would be a good idea worth exploring
     
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  28. ℜai 노블레스

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    Itachi vs anyone should be banned since he's invincible.
     
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  29. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    Shit man. But this at the same time may also cause a decrease in thread making, seeing as how most are going to be debating.

    This is an interesting idea tho
     
  30. Turrin 玄武

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    I think Changing Member of the Month Voting, to Rank up Voting would resolve this problem. As someone could achieve a Rank up for creating Quality Threads or Quality posting in Threads, even outside of Events or when Events are not going on.

    For example maybe I only lightly participate in events, voting in a few matches, but I'm doing quality posts and threads throughout the NBD, I could still be voted to be promoted based on that in the monthly Rank Up Thread.
     
  31. Godaime Tsunade Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind the idea of a General Tier List. It doesn't need to be taken as your bible because obviously not everyone will agree, but a polling system (kind of like what KL has with character popularity polls) with discussion inside would generate activity for quite a while.
     
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  32. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    Perhaps we should get a banner at the top of the forums, something one of us could either find and use or make? For instance, let's say this past month there were an abundant amount of Kisame threads perhaps a banner depicting Kisame beating Hagoromo or some parody would be hilarious.
     
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  33. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    I would actually stay away from anything that remotely emphasizes this as some form of common sense should be required to post. although troll threads should be allowed I think, Nikushimi used to make the best posts regarding them
     
  34. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and have the scan of Kisame saying "The stronger my opponent is the stronger I become"
     
  35. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    I think professor would be able to do that, the guy always has funny parodies of some sort.

    If only people would just have fun and not take everything so seriously...but...16.
     
  36. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    For Itachi threads have the scan of Itachi is invincible.
     
  37. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    Wtf? It wasn't serious, it was a joke too.
     
  38. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    I am not opposed to anything that plays on the current status of the Battledome.

    I wish we had this when Izaya was in Prime Part 2 Pre-War Arc Orochimaru mode :zaru
     
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  39. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    Isn't that the guy who was saying that pre war arc Oro was above war arc oro with ET?
     
  40. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    No, he said that P1 Oro > Itachi.
     
  41. theBeginning Viva la revolución

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    Seriously?:psyduck
    Even after Orochimaru admitted his inferiority?
     
  42. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    @Troyse22
    @Ichibat

    Yeah, he has this 40k word essay on it. If you take the feats, you can make a decent case for Oro winning, but Kishi intended for Itachi to be above Oro, by having Oro say it was a "dream to beat Itachi",so that's what I'll believe.

    Unless this is War Arc with ET of course.
     
  43. theBeginning Viva la revolución

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    Do you by anychance have a link?
     
  44. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    I'd definitely read the essay, it's possible he could shift my opinion. I always enjoy the underdog kind of poster, guess it's cause I relate haha.
     
  45. Ryuzaki Moonlight ۷۸٦ Moderator

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    I'm sure you have your own on Kisame :maybe
     
  46. PhantomSage Well-Known Member

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    @Troyse22
    @Ichibat

    http://www.narutoforums.com/threads...hiha-an-in-depth-orochimaru-analysis.1051324/ (http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/orochimaru-is-stronger-than-itachi-uchiha-an-in-depth-orochimaru-analysis.1051324/)
     
  47. theBeginning Viva la revolución

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    Thank you.:good
     
  48. theBeginning Viva la revolución

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    @PhantomSage it's gonna take some while to finish reading that. He's put some serious work into it.
     
  49. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    Truthfully i've been working on why Kisame beats several high tier shinobi in Microsoft word for a few weeks now. I'm currently working on VOTE Madara and EMS Sasuke. But both of those arguments together have only equated to a few thousand words.

    He really went in depth, i'm certainly not up to reading that right now, but I look forward to it. Jesus there's so much to read!

    But the way he went in depth makes me truly think he might be right, cause based on a quick glance he left nothing out.
     
  50. theBeginning Viva la revolución

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    Yeah. There's about 5 parts of that analysis. It certainly will be hard to read in one go but I'll try.
     

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