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Speculation Thread: Killer vs Zoro

Discussion in 'One Piece Battledome' started by Shinji, Jul 26, 2013.

Killer vs Zoro

  1. Pre-Skip: Killer > Zoro

    4.3%
  2. Pre-Skip: Zoro > Killer

    17.4%
  3. Post-Skip: Killer > Zoro

    4.3%
  4. Post-Skip: Zoro > Killer

    73.9%
  5. They will draw :LOS

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Shinji 5th Division Captain

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    This is just based on peoples speculation because Killer really has no feats aside from messing with Urouge and his group attacks on the Pacifista.

    However, the way Oda has set up Killer plotwise being the only other non-captain Supernova aside from Zoro. Leads one to believe that they are destined to clash.

    Thus this leads me to the question whether you believe pre-skip Killer was greater than pre-skip Zoro?

    In addition, do you believe Zoro will have major difficulty with Killer post-skip?
     
  2. Bitty

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    of course he will be pushed high diff or higher with Killer........ as with any SN. except maybe Bonney & Capone...i'd still give them the benefit of the doubt.
    pre-skip? I say either way. post-skip? I give Zoro the slight edge.
     
  3. Kyouko Boundless

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    If they're gonna clash? Yes. Zoro could probably win high difficulty IMO.

    Is he a potential rival to Zoro? Doubtful but who knows.
     
  4. Snowless Forged from cosmic furnaces.

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    I would have to assume Zoro is stronger.
    But, as you said, this is pure speculation.
     
  5. Great Potato Active Member

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    If you're going to ask us about both pre and post skip, then the poll should have been multiple choice.

    Anyways, he's set up as the "Zoro" of Kid's crew. If the two end up clashing, which is pretty damn likely, then there's no reason to assume Zoro wouldn't win.
     
  6. Halcyon Active Member

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    Preskip is anyone's guess because we'll never know unless we get flashbacks.

    We can probably wait it out for them to clash in the NW. I would have to assume Zoro is stronger though, not by a ton, but enough to beat him high diff.
     
  7. Vengeance The Kingslayer

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    Zoro was, is and will always be stronger
     
  8. Kid Active Member

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    Pre skip

    Killer > Zoro

    Pos skip

    Zoro > Killer

    both high diff
     
  9. RF RF

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    Killer stomps. :ignoramus
     
  10. Lionel Messi Hmmmmmmm

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    r8 now imo, Killer > Zoro.

    but, by the time Luffy beats Kid (if this happens) , Zoro will beat Killer too with no less than high diff.
     
  11. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    It really all depends on where people put Eutass Kidd compared to luffy at this moment.

    If luffy is stronger than Kidd so should Zoro be against Killer.

    Otherwise it's the other way around.

    Killer is going to be a direct rival for Zoro because he was the only other first mate who made it into the supernovas.
     
  12. Coruscation Active Member

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    ^Logic assumes Killer is just as special and close to his captain as Luffy is to Zoro. I believe we've discussed that before and you really do think that highly of Kid/Killer, but most people are like to disagree with the notion that Killer is equally special as Zoro.

    I think Zoro would defeat Killer now or before the timeskip.
     
  13. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    Yeah we did and i thought that Zoro would always need extreme difficulty to beat Killer but I stopped thinking that quite some time ago.

    I'm not outright making the claim that Kidd is currently stronger than luffy but IF he is then it only makes some sense that Killer is slightly stronger than Zoro as well seeing that they seemingly do have a similar dynamic to Luffy and Zoro.

    That's all I have to say really. Current Zoro being able to beat Killer or Current Killer being able to beat Zoro can equally make sense with that we know right now.
     
  14. Coruscation Active Member

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    I see the exact opposite personally. Kid is the one of Luffy's rivals that I can actually see beating him in a straight and bloody fight, but then Zoro beating Killer, showing why he is a unique first mate, would weigh it up to prevent the SHs defeat. Zoro would arrive on the scene of Luffy and Kid's fight and be in better condition than Kid thus stopping him from dealing the killing blow.
     
  15. Dunno Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see that, but I doubt Oda would let Zoro defeat an opponent Luffy straight up lost to, even under those circumstances.
     
  16. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    That is a rather weird outlook. I understand Zoro being in a better condition from his fights than luffy because that's what has been shown for 700 + chapters now. But for luffy to outright lose and Zoro comes in as the savior is rather.......... new.

    By the way, I hope you realize by now that you are in fact a pure Zoro fan, not Luffy. I've noticed it for months now but i think you should realize it now.
     
  17. Coruscation Active Member

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    As if Zoro hasn't saved Luffy before? And considering you've taken the position before that Zoro would be in as bad shape as Luffy from his fight with Killer despite 700+ chapters of the opposite... don't think you're in any position to make that argument.

    No, I really just have a clear head when it comes to these things. I don't deny or downplay the way Zoro has always been made to stand out like a lot of people do due to bias. My preference doesn't come into it. The idea that Luffy loses to Kid is theoretical speculation in the first place. Killer has simply not been portrayed as as exceptional as Kid to give Zoro a true defeat as well. Zoro's portrayal on Sabaody is in stark contrast to Killer's, and coming right off of Thriller Bark as well, it shows that he is the most unique first mate. If both of them lost what prevents the SHs complete defeat? Sanji against the two of them? That is clearly even more unlikely. Zoro getting the nod and the most special moment is clearly in line with series history and most plausible. Even as Luffy loses his crew is there to hold him up, with Zoro at the forefront as always.

    You misunderstand me. He of course wouldn't defeat Kid. He would just make Kid go "Killer... lost?", tell him to step back, they'd stare each other down and then probably rest of the crew arriving would make Kid back down.
     
  18. Urouge Mad Monk

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    Hu I woukd personally hate it. It would severely undermine luffy if he was saved by one of his crew member after he lost. He promised that he will be strong enough to protect them. The whole point of the 2 years training was for him to be strong enough to at least protect his crew. I personally don't see Kidd of any other sn beating luffy.
     
  19. ShadowReaper Active Member

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    Killer is not in Zoro's league and he doesn't have much feats or hype that would put him there in either case.
     
  20. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    Kuma doesn't count.

    Besides I've already mentioned that my views have changed.Why do you think my view changed from extreme difficulty to something less. We had the argument on that particular topic and after that I started to re-think my approach. You can't call me up on something I admitted I was wrong and changed on. :notrust

    But you might be placing too much emphasis on his portrayal at shabondy. Urouge did have a certain respect for him but it doesn't directly translate into power. To simplify it, who's to say that Urouge would have THAT much trouble fighting Zoro than Killer even though his fight with killer was inconclusive and at no point showed one being superior to the other.

    Talking down or highly to somebody isn't something to treat as gospel or a testament to somebody's strength.
    Apoo clearly respected Zoro more than Kidd but Kidd is undoubtedly stronger
    Crocodile spoke down to flamingo even though Flamingo is considerably stronger. Kiji held flamingo in some high regard enough though he could beat his ass 6 ways still sunday.


    But that would be a failure on luffy's end. Luffy since he developed Gear 2 has made it his duty to protect his nakama and as long as he has a fighting chance he will push to the very brink of his life force to defeat his opponent. And that is not something i see will ever change. Luffy's willpower is phenomenal.
     
  21. Coruscation Active Member

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    But you forget why the crew trained? To protect Luffy. Despite his unwavering confidence and willpower, Luffy can't do everything on his own and there will be times when even he will falter. So the entire crew needed to get stronger and be there to hold him up when that happens. It is in fact undermining the crew to say that it would undermine Luffy if he lost and had to be saved by them.

    No, I can safely say that it is you who places too little on it because you give it no meaning at all. You try to argue that it means nothing as shown by your attempt at discrediting it by bringing up various unrelated situations and strawman arguments. Oda did this -- having multiple Supernova captains, including one that called Killer a worm, lavishly praise Zoro and wonder how insane his captain must be to have a subordinate like that -- for a reason. He did Thriller Bark for a reason. But you give it no credit at all as showing how exceptional Zoro is. Nothing is done without reason. You need to see the big picture but you choose not to.

    Very weird argument. If a loss is a failure per definition then it doesn't matter if Zoro ends up bailing him out. Zoro and/or the crew doing that only shows that Luffy CAN'T do everything on his own, but he has his crew that will do what he can not. No matter how much he wants to Luffy can't do everything. Luffy trained for his friends, but they trained for Luffy, to be there when even he can't pull through, because such times will come. It's only theoretical speculation that Kid might defeat Luffy, but if he does and Luffy's crew is what saves his life at that point rather than the usual strike of luck, that is the best possible outcome.
     
  22. Kanki KIG

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    The idea of Kidd defeating Luffy and then Zoro stepping in, ending the fight (and motivating Luffy to get stronger to win next time) sounds amazing....though I'd be amazed if that happens.

    I just can't see Luffy losing with Zoro winning, in serious fights. Normally the crew win together and lose together.

    Plus, Oda is allergic to having Zoro interact in an aggressive way with Luffy's major rivals. A Kid/Zoro interaction would be great though, as unlike Luffy, Zoro wouldn't take Kidd's verbal abuse.
     
  23. Zorofangirl24 Zoro

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    Zoro wins no question. Killer has nothing on him.
     
  24. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    They trained to get stronger. Me and and you probably have different thoughts on what "protect" luffy means. You're right in the sense that luffy can't do everything on his own but their real purpose has only ever been to fight the other guys that aren't the main villian reserved for luffy. Them being strong clears all doubt in luffy's head worrying about whether ussop can beat X or Robin can beat Y. They want to get stronger so luffy can have full confidence in a fight despite the enemy trying to play mind games. And we all know luffy is considerably stronger when he has no doubts in his mind. That is my version of protect.



    All you've ever done with that scene is put Zoro on a pedestal ignoring everything else.
    How exactly is anything i say unrelated when apoo was basically right beside freaking urouge also talking good things about Zoro despite his attitude towards Kidd. How does words from Urouge discredit feats?
     
  25. Coruscation Active Member

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    Yeah, kind of like Zoro in Thriller Bark... why are you so single-minded about this? Things can only go one way, Oda would never do something different? Kid is simply a "main villain" and can't have a more unique position in the story as a continuous rival? You acknowledge yourself Luffy might lose to him, why does that have to translate to Zoro? Why does a strike of luck or Sanji saving them make more sense? Also:

    X

    "Even Luffy can lose sometimes."

    This didn't change. Timeskip didn't happen so that Luffy will never lose again. The crew became stronger to protect Luffy in any way, anytime that it's necessary. No reason at all exists to be close-minded.

    Ignoring what? What is this "everything else" that's being ignored in a scene that's strictly about Zoro? I simply ACKNOWLEDGE the scene as I acknowledge anything that's significant and meaningful. You don't do that, instead you dismiss it, downplay its significance, despite being such a powerful scene and highlighting Zoro in a way unusual even for him.

    It's unrelated because it has absolutely nothing to do with acknowledging the scene. You're painting a false picture of what I'm actually claiming. You think you're proving that the scene means nothing by saying that Urouge and Apoo praised Zoro but Apoo was a dick to Kid. Non sequitur. All that reasoning does is prove that it doesn't automatically mean Zoro > Killer. That has never been the argument and it bothers me that I even have to state that here. It's part of a bigger picture that Oda is consciously painting. He didn't have this scene happen just for the hell of it or for people to dismiss it. He was highlighting how special Zoro is like so many times before.
     
  26. Lionel Messi Hmmmmmmm

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    that would be horrible . Not just for the series but also for the survival of OL. We already have a lots of wanker with Zoro > Luffy or Zoro = Luffy statement already. No need to add some fuel in that fire.
     
  27. Kanki KIG

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    It wouldn't be like that because they wouldn't have to fight, and Kidd probably couldn't beat Luffy AND Zoro back to back anyways.

    Seeing different characters interacting with each other is always good.
     
  28. Halcyon Active Member

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    I agree, switching things up has major potential for being good after so long.

    Lol @ the bolded. The one time I remember it happening is when Zoro attacked Lucci and then Zoro's in the ocean.

    Change of pace isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    Plus there's only like 5 guys in the OL who overwank him anyway, and they're well known trolls.
     
  29. Coruscation Active Member

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    He also blocked Smoker's jutte stab back in Arabasta and threatened him down in Crocodile's cage.
     
  30. tanman Hardship of Adventure

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    I think Kid and Killer are currently stronger than Luffy and Zoro. It's purely speculative, though.
    Unlike many posters, I see Luffy being behind at least Law and Kid (out of the Supernovas) at this point. I feel as if their crusades in the New World have allowed as much if not more growth than Luffy's training with Rayleigh.
     
  31. Zorofangirl24 Zoro

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    That makes no sense. Luffy and Zoro were trained by Reyleigh and Mihawk but they failed to get a lead on Kid and Killer over 2 years?
     
  32. Halcyon Active Member

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    Oh, that's right! I forgot about that one.
     
  33. tanman Hardship of Adventure

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    I'll put it this way: The difference between Romance Dawn Luffy and Marineford Luffy seems as drastic as the difference between Pre-Skip Luffy and Post-Skip Luffy. Yet the first occurred in half the time of the second. And the second was pure training with Rayleigh himself. Experience yielded better results than training. I doubt Luffy would be as strong as he is now if he trained with Garp instead of traveling through Paradise.

    Even with a growth rate inferior to Luffy's, experience can be more valuable than training.
     
  34. Goomoonryong Active Member

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    Zoro would win high diff although I do love the way killer fights

    Never been impressed with kid don't know why people are saying that he's stronger than Luffy currently can't see how it's possible he hasn't done anything impressive just seems like another arrogant rival that Luffy will put down IMO

    Does anyone else think its possible that killer is stronger than kid, I don't know why but whenever I see them together that's what comes to my mind
     
  35. Edward Teach Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Canut, Messi, you two are being blind with the little hatred you have towards Zoro. What Coru said doesn't make 100% sense the way things are going on right now, but it could make 100% sense later on when Oda decides that this is the right way for things to happen with Luffy vs Kidd. Coru's scenario could be Oda's way of finally proving that Zoro is actually the first mate and he's the most special one to Luffy and vice versa even though it has been actually proven few times, but people just feel like ignoring it. Luffy could be defeated by the hands of Kidd, Zoro steps in at the end to stop Kidd from killing Luffy, I see no problem about that at all. Like I said, that could be Oda's way of telling us something or proving it for good. Luffy tried to step in when Mihawk pwned Zoro, I don't see why wouldn't Zoro step in when Luffy is in a similar condition. And Zoro also tried stopping Kuma in a very similar situation, it's just this time would be a little different. Kuma let them go in TB, but this time, it will be Zoro who forces the enemy to leave.

    I can actually see it goes like this :maybe

    Luffy is unconscious.
    Kidd is about to give him the final blow.
    Zoro blocks the hit, it's a normal blow but it could just kill Luffy in his condition.
    They stare at each other knowing that none of them can actually fight a serious fight to the death.
    Zoro says: I can't let you do this, Luffy is the man who's going to be the PK.
    Kidd: .....
    then he walks away with an angry look. takes Killer and walks away.
     
  36. Bitty

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    Luffy is guaranteed to be the strongest EoS & already has the highest growth rate in the series.
    I think it would make things too predicable, easy going for Luffy, & undermine the SN at the same time if his main pirate rivals(besides Teach) are & will always be weaker than him. Hell, even when Roger was PK he had an equal.

    I don't want this generation of pirates to be a lopsided battle in favor of Luffy just because "he's strong enough to protect his crew." That doesn't give Luffy a free pass to be stronger than his rivals. We shouldn't expects things to be that linear, especially in a manga like one piece. Where's the excitement in that? He should be weaker or damn near equal to a few of them.....& then start to pull ahead as the story progresses towards the end.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  37. Lionel Messi Hmmmmmmm

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    or Zoro fans r asking too much from Oda.

    Oda already showed at TB that Zoro is willing to give up his dream and life for Luffy and had one of the biggest badass moment. I dont see any point of Zoro repeating the same thing he did at TB except making Zoro fanboys go crazy.
    Zoro had his moment at TB. So,why ask for the same thing from the same person again ? U want variation ? Have Sanji or other SHs or every SHs save their captain.
     
  38. Edward Teach Well-Known Member

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    You could be right, us Zoro fans are just asking for more, but let me ask you this. Do you see Usopp stopping Kidd from killing Luffy? Hell, do you see any other SH bar Sanji doing it? what stops Kidd from just killing them then finishing what he was about to do to Luffy. Sanji's role is not to save Luffy's life when he needs it, I guess it's been made clear in TB. Zoro and Luffy's relationship is different from the other SHs and you know it, but you choose to ignore it. It's been implied more than once pre skip, and it's been implied already post skip.
     
  39. Lionel Messi Hmmmmmmm

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    I dont get it ? What do u mean ? U mean its only Zoro's duty to save Luffy ? Others are useless or not willing to do so ? :oh
     
  40. Kanki KIG

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    Having Sanji interact in the same way with Kidd would also be awesome to be fair.
     
  41. Edward Teach Well-Known Member

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    No, I didn't mean it like that. Zoro has always been the person who puts Luffy on track and corrects him when needed, while Sanji's role has been different. Punk Hazard for example, he helped the kids, Kinemon, bla bla bla. He's always been different, while Zoro has always been the person who keeps an eye on Luffy's action just to make sure their crew isn't playing around. Besides, Sanji's interaction with Kidd would be awful -.-, Kidd is a maniac, Zoro is a maniac in a way, their interaction would be awesome. Even better than Luffy's interaction with Kidd to be honest, but that's just my opinion.
     
  42. GaaraoftheDesert1 commemorating failure

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  43. Transcendent Samurai Celestial Sword Style

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    There is really no reason not to believe that Zoro wins. He has better feats and better hype.
     
  44. Bitty

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    you really think Oda wouldn't make that work?
    Sanji interacted badass with Croc & Enel....without even fighting them. It would be awesome if Sanji interacted with any of the SN...Bonney & Apoo could work very well in my opinion lol

    but who am I kidding? Kid ain't ready for Mr.Prince :datass
     
  45. Lionel Messi Hmmmmmmm

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    as always u know what is up :brofist


    One Piece need more of Mr. Prince :gar
     
  46. Zorofangirl24 Zoro

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    Zoro could beat Kidd's whole crew in a 1 vs 1 gauntlet one after another. This is because Kidd would barely give Zoro high diff then Zoro just fodderizes Killer with lion's song and no haki
    IMO theres a slim chance of Zoro soloing the whole crew all at once
     
  47. Imagine Unrivaled

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    There's no way to tell at this current time in the series. My guess would be that they're relatively close to each other preskip and post.
     
  48. Edward Teach Well-Known Member

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    You're right, Oda would make it work if he wanted to. Hell, he would make Chopper's interaction with Kidd go perfectly if he wanted.
     
  49. Donquixote Doflamingo Master Puppeteer

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    1. Can Killer be stronger then Zoro=Of course.

    2. Do we have a reason to believe Killer is stronger then Zoro=Nope.

    Zoro wins or Draws with Killer. In other answer is pure bull crap.
     
  50. tanman Hardship of Adventure

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    It really just depends on your view of future plotlines.
    We know that the plot must take time to seriously address the Gorosei and Presidency, the marines, the Big Mom Pirates, The Heart Pirates, The Kaido Pirates, The Kid Pirates, The Crocodile Piirates?, The Fishman Pirates, The Red Hair Pirates, and something like another dozen as of yet unidentified major groups.

    Your view of Killer and Kid's strength really just depends on your view of their significance and purpose in the future, as well as the Strawhats current strength.
     

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