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Sasuke's Amaterasu/Enton - Kagu Tsuchi Jutsu

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives 2' started by Kotoamatsukami, Sep 17, 2009.

Whose Amaterasu is better in YOUR opinion??

  1. Sasuke

    95 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. Itachi

    54 vote(s)
    31.6%
  3. [Boring]Both better in different conditions[/Boring]

    22 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. Kotoamatsukami It?s the goddamn Batman!

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    What do you think of it? As far as I understood, and taking the quote of vered into account, its something similar like Amaterasu, but still different.
    Your thoughts?

    Spoiler:

    " the 炎 in 炎遁, or En in Enton, is a kanji made up of two 火 (fire) stacked on top of each other and in everyday use would mean the act (verb) of ignition, or setting afire. I think the closest english translation in this case would be Inferno Release, or something to the effect. In asian culture/lore (and some western ones too) there are legends of indistinguishable fires like the "三昧眞火" (True Samādhi Fire) from "Journey to the West". Amaterasu was clearly based off of these kinds of mythology, and Enton probably is too.

    Edit/Note: It's not that "Flame Release" is grammatically wrong in the purely dictionary sense. It's just that the feeling conveyed by "Flame Release" doesn't emphasize Enton's obvious power increase over an ordinary "Fire Release", at least IMO. "
     
  2. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh Advisor

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    It seems that Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi are both Enton jutsu. Amaterasu creates the Enton and Kagutsuchi manipulates them.
     
  3. Kotoamatsukami It?s the goddamn Batman!

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    That sounds reasonable! So Kagutsuchi is used by the right eye, and Amaterasu by the left?
     
  4. Easley

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    C said left eye controls the flames. Same eye as Amaterasu.
     
  5. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh Advisor

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    Sleepyfans' translation is not trustworthy here, since Sasuke was clearly using his right eye.
     
  6. shintebukuro Active Member

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    Don't take onemanga translation too seriously.

    Right in the chapter we can see Sasuke was using his right eye to control the flames.
     
  7. Bonds Bang

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    The original text says right, not left, so the right definitely controls the flames.
     
  8. vered yellow fu-uma

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    Sleepyfan translation is full of errors.not only on this one page.
    he uses his right eye to control the amaterasu flames.
     
  9. Easley

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    Yeah, but Sasuke confuses the issue when he covers an eye. Makes it seem like he just used that one.

    ah well, probably a mistranslation.
     
  10. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    Sasuke's Amaterasu

    It is said Amaterasu is inextinguishable flames that burns for a week but the flames Sasuke put in Susano'o ribcage were disappearing when his eye hurt.

    Notice the 3 painels in the right:[X]

    His right MS hurts and Amaterasu begins to fade.
    Is just me who thinks it is strange? :oh
     
  11. Bonds Bang

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    I don't think it was fading, just gathering at the tip of the bones to form that next attack.
     
  12. Kitsukaru ̣<b> <font color="#FF1F00">Kage Bunshin?!</font></

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    No. He uses his right eye to control the flame.
     
  13. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    I bet were gonna see another Enton jutsu, maybe Enton: Kagutsuchi sword!!!:nod
     
  14. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    Could Kagutsuchi manipulate other jutsus too?
     
  15. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh Advisor

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    Since it's explicitly an Enton jutsu, no.
     
  16. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    But the frame it shows Sasuke using his right eye comes after.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  17. Saiko You will be torn to pieces

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    I have a question .. is the ton at the end of the Enton the same ton used for Katon , Suiton and Raiton etc. ?

    Because it sounds like a Kekkei Genkai .. like the Ranton used in this chapter.
     
  18. vered yellow fu-uma

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    well since sasuke can manipulate the enton and has a full control over it,and from the scan it seems similar to garras sand control.he might create more shapes with it later.like Enton sword.or Enton shield like he did earlier against the raikage.
     
  19. Dark Uchiha Already Home

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    yea it was fading.

    he then used the right eye to manipulate the existing flames to make spike flames.

    as shown with the picture of the right eyes and the flames no longer being on the bones and were drawn towards the open area.
     
  20. SpiRo Anti-Mihawk Wankers

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    No..

    Sasuke was just moving flames upwards to Raikage.

    Otherwise flames on Samurais and Raikage would fade too..
     
  21. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    What do you think is going on in the 2nd panel of that page?
     
  22. vered yellow fu-uma

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    maybe.after he was hurt in the eye the flame did went down a bit.but afterwards he used his right eye to manipulate it.
    but it dosent supposed to be connected to sasuke health.its supposed to burn from itself.so we can conclude sasuke lowered the flames on purpose.or if it was connected to his health than thats a very interesting development that shows the deep connection and control that sasuke has over amaterasu.
     
  23. ChocoMello Member

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    He probably put them out for his own safety.

    Well. But this chapter confirms that Amaterasu has the heat of a normal Katon. You just can't get rid of it though.

    I now strongly think Sasukes and Itachi's Amaterasu are slightly different (like their Susanoos and MS Genjutsus). Itachis obviously caused a lot more damage (hole in the wall, Sasukes destroyed Bunshin), but was WAY less flexible than Sasuke's.
     
  24. Kitsukaru ̣<b> <font color="#FF1F00">Kage Bunshin?!</font></

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    Thats his right eye.... He is using the flames that were already on the tip bones. Sasuke uses his left to cast Amaterasu and right to control/manipulate it.
     
  25. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    Sasuke putting his hand on his eye because is hurting?
    The way I read that page was:
    His MS hurts, for some reason his Amaterasu becomes to fade and before it disappears he uses Kagu Tsuchi to create a barrier with the rest of Amaterasu.
    lol I said the wrong eye.
    But shouldn't Amaterasu only move after appear him using his right eye?
     
  26. Kitsukaru ̣<b> <font color="#FF1F00">Kage Bunshin?!</font></

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    What? Amaterasu as already there, burning on the bones. He used his right eye to control that and use it against Raikage.
    Spoiler:
    X

    You can see here he is using it to stretch for Raikage's leg. You can also see that he is gathering the flames from Susano's bones.
     
  27. nick1689 Cause I'm a hero, y'know?

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    Wait, what is Enton exactly? Just a variation on Amaterasu?
     
  28. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    I thought it is an Enton because was manipulating Amaterasu, something that is supposed beyond Katon.
    Enton is a stronger Katon.
     
  29. Kotoamatsukami It?s the goddamn Batman!

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    I think its the name for this type of fire attacks...As vered stated, like Katons, only much stronger. The Kagu Tsuchi is the possbility to change the shape of Amaterasu, which seems to be an unique skill since it has an own name.
     
  30. vered yellow fu-uma

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    Enton is amaterasu flames.sasuke named the amaterasu flames as Enton.i guess since he can control it like an element by itself.
     
  31. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    Kishi words will change your mind.:hmpf
     
  32. vered yellow fu-uma

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    its more like this:
    amaterasu:casting of Enton
    Kagutsuchi:manipulation of Enton
    all of this assuming the Kagutsuchi is the name that refers to the power of the right eye to control the Enton and not specificaly to the spikey variation.
     
  33. Nakson (+) (+)

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    What kind of question is that?
     
  34. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    No it doesn't. If the flames weren't hot enough to deal any significant damge beyond your standard Katon, it wouldn't have consumed the Hachibi so quickly. Monstrous manifestation of chakra > Gamaguchi Shibari

    It would be better to say that Amaterasu simply consumes as fast as the author needs it to.

    Or because he's starting the process of manipulating the flames with his right eye. Notice that his hand stays on his left eye when he uses the technique.

    There's really no reason for the flames to simply fade away.
     
  35. Trent Joker, Smoker, Midnight Toker

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    It looks like this is Sasuke's right eye and 2nd MS Jutsu, that seems to be specific to him.

    It could be quite useful and versatile (Amaterasu spears, shield, etc.) I wonder if it adds "tangeability" to the flames makind them as hard as weapons. Probably.

    Or if it works on incoming elemental jutsus to defense yourself (that's be a bit overkill though).
     
  36. Bart a lion still has claws

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    According to ShounenSuki,

    "Enton: Kagutsuchi; Kagutsuchi is a God of Fire in Shinto and the one who brought death into the world by burning his mother Izanami to death as she gave birth to him."
     
  37. Marco Ice and Fire

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    So Kishi finally accepting that Katon is shit??

    With the new revelation that Amaterasu Flames can be freely controlled and spatially manipulated, and thereby giving them a new name, "Enton", Kishi is basically giving proof that Katon is shit..

    Katon was always useless and finally Kishi accepts.

    Enter Enton.. Too bad only Sauce can use Enton.

    However, I do feel that it would have been a bit cooler if Sasuke was spatially manipulating Katon IMO... Noone's ever done that.
     
  38. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    I've never noticed that lol.
    I hope see some nice Enton jutsus to remember the Sasuke of Part 1, I'm quite tired of his Chidori.
     
  39. Marco Ice and Fire

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    Raiton is the only element that we've actively seen being spatially manipulated except for Wind.. Which was used by Baki (?) and Naruto.
     
  40. Sollet "..."

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    Don't forget Asuma :zaru
     
  41. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    I don't remember the page but Kakashi or Yamato said shape manipulation and nature manipulation in the same jutsu is something so difficult that only a few shinobis can do. They are right :quite
     
  42. Marco Ice and Fire

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    Asuma never did much of spatial manipulation with Wind. He just used chakra blades to absorb the nature of his chakra.

    Apparently its very easy with Raiton.. :laugh
     
  43. Bonds Bang

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    Sasuke did spatially manipulate katon back in the Uchiha fight with those dragon katons he shot to create the lightning storm.

    Honestly though, when you think about it, isn't EVERY element basically useless? None of them ever seem to be allowed to kill anyone, only hurt.
     
  44. AoshiKun うちはサスケ

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    Well all the Raiton jutsus we know that have both of them are A-rank, not easy I'd say. :amuse
     
  45. Marco Ice and Fire

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    Thats what I thought too at first as well..

    But that would mean even the Water Dragons Kakashi and Zabuza made were spatial manipulations..

    It would mean any water jutsu that uses water source is spatial manipulation...


    The actual cases where we've been told we're witnessing Spatial Manipulation all had the element being used directly in contact with the user..

    Its because in spatial Manipulation, the form has to be maintained. Something which wouldn't be possible for those Katon Dragons..

    Those weren't spatial manipulations.. Those were just the jutsu designs.. Just like the fireball is a spherical shape yet not spatial manipulation..
     
  46. Sollet "..."

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    Well we've only seen two people in the entire manga so far that uses shape manipulation of Raiton, Kakashi and Sasuke - both are geniuses.

    Stop trolling.
     
  47. Marco Ice and Fire

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    I'd say any jutsu that uses both spatial manipulation and elemental manipulation would be A rank..

    Its just that Raiton has so many instances.. Wind has 3 (2 of Naruto's) and other elements have none.
     
  48. Tyrion Banned

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    I wouldn't say every element is useless. Kakashi's Raikiri killed Haku. The unknown wind technique that Danzou used killed those Assassins. FRS killed a few Pein bodies...
     
  49. Marco Ice and Fire

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    Itachi's Amaterasu vs Sasuke's Amaterasu!! Power vs Skill!! Which one takes this??

    Itachi's Amaterasu ate through Toad Esophagus (which is supposed to be all that) in seconds (I'd say less than a second) while Sasuke's Amaterasu couldn't even burn through Karin's skimpy cloak in more than a few seconds.. And this chapter we saw how Sasuke's Amaterasu couldn't even burn through the Samurai's armor forget hurting him and I'm sure at least 3-4 seconds had passed. It seems like Itachi's Amaterasu was more powerful


    However, Sasuke can spatially manipulate Amaterasu flames with his right eye while Itachi never showed any signs of this.. So it seems like Sasuke's Amaterasu is more skillful.

    So who takes this one?

    Itachi or Sasuke??

    Personally, until Sasuke shows more than just being blocked by Gaara's sand, I'll have to go with Itachi...
     
  50. cloudsymph I am MELON-LORRRRD!!!!!

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    the flames were just moving towards the raikage me thinks.
     

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