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Sasuke and True Power: Rinnegan and Sharingan

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by adeshina365, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. adeshina365 Destruction Incarnate

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    With the Rinnegan and Sharingan working in unison, anything becomes possible. True power can only be obtained by Sasuke.
     
  2. PhantomSage Solo King

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  3. Zef Well-Known Member

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    It's made even more ironic by the fact that Sasuke actually does have Itachi's Mangekyo in a sense. :puppers
     
  4. adeshina365 Destruction Incarnate

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    The congruence of those two panels is quite amazing.
     
  5. Burning Desire Member

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    Damn, this thread is good.

    Edit: It is funny how Sasuke does have Itachi's (Sharingan Powers) Sharingan and has Rinnegan.
     
  6. georgem22 New Member

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    i still wanna him to surpass naruto but i know that will not happen due to plot :( :D anyway he is strongest outside of him so yea. im quite pleased with his badass eyes. p.s. i still dont get why tobi did not use or could not use six path abilities. i was sooo hyped when he got rinnegan and looked legit badass but only thing he did was summoning gedo mazo and controlling bijuus/jinchuriki paths. what a waste
     
  7. Klue 輪廻

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    Obito's primary fighting style is centered around Kamui. Madara had Susanoo, and later, Limbo. Nagato used all of the standard Rinnegan abilities, most of which are a bit dated by the war arc.

    Control 10 Tails, and perform the 10 Tails Coffin Seal.
     
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  8. AumaanAnubis Member

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    the door swings both ways
     
  9. professor83 Was I able to live inside your Heart?

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    Haha the guy barely used rinnegan .

    Sasuke fans are always there to get dissapionted . Its the same old same old.
     
  10. PhantomSage Solo King

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    Dude needed 9 bijuu to fight on par with Naruto
     
  11. Brooks The Batman

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    And Naruto needed the whole planet. Let that one sink in for awhile.
     
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  12. The Orange Hokage Member

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    Yeah, the Rinnegan itself possesses immense potential. That's why i hate it when kishi neglects it, anyways. Sasuke has Sharingan on top of it. :cat
     
  13. Klue 輪廻

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    FUCK OUTTA HERE DAWG!!!

    His lefty isn't called Rinne Sharingan, and the implication there is flagrant anyway. :catflip

    Spoiler:
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    Spoiler:
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    DAMN YOU KISHI!!! :catmad
     
  14. ℜai 노블레스

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  15. Klue 輪廻

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    I'd never let go of my bitch, I'm loyal ℜai. :catmaddance


    Or maybe, I'm the bitch? :catcry
     
  16. DVD Moderator Moderator

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    Pretty cool thread OP.:supercat

    Pity. Power to do almost anything. Barely uses it at all. Only Kishi.:defeat
     
  17. T-Bag Blackbeard

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    So you're saying Itachi is "the strongest in this world?"

    Makes sense :blinditachi
     
  18. GuidingThunder Get out of my way !

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    Too bad feats tell a different tale :zen
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  19. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    Though Uchihas were set up as "bijuu tamers". MS greatest power originally was meant to control Kurama.

    Its their power too. Its just that it requires some prep time(capturing/trapping a bijuu) unless one made a blood contract with it like Madara and can summon it at will(and use genjutsu on said bijuu right after).

    That's how Madara and Obito did roll. During the war they even controlled(but without perfect control) even Juubi only to take it to the next level and become Jinchuuriki themselves.
     
  20. GuidingThunder Get out of my way !

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    Yes my dear , the ability to control the Bijuu (Sharingan genjutsu , Rinnegan outer path) is their power .
    The Bijuu itself on the other hand aren't ;)
    So , if you don't have a Bijuu , then this ability is useless especially in a fight where you don't can't just go look for a Bijuu to control .
    While all what a sage needs to do , is sit down and suck that NE , something can be done anywhere , anytime :zen
     
  21. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    Well, a Rinnegan user can easily become a Jin too thanks to the Six Path Coffin jutsu.

    And Madara after capturing Kurama seemingly did make a contract with Kurama and could summon it like a frog or snake:
    X
    X

    Kurama: Its the revolting blood that once summoned me.

    Clearly it can be done without the bijuu permission too unless Kurama ever trusted Madara to allow for such a contract which is unlikely.

    So once that happens it all takes to use summon no jutsu which is...as fast as Sasuke's escape from Deidara's attack. :LOS

    Granted finding a bijuu might require some effort but then again finding the Frog hometown to be trained in SM also requires no less effort I guess. No great power comes with zero effort.

    And only Kurama was shown capable of sucking so much NE. No other sage was shown performing a similarly crazy feat. It might depend on the user chakra capacity. Kurama having quite more chakra than Naruto can therefore gather much more NE. :hmm

    That said the Rinnegan itself is not the "standard" power of an Uchiha just like Kurama is not the standard power of an Uzumaki. And without the Rinnegan absorbing big amounts of chakra from bijuu or controlling many of them at once is impossible. Likewise a SM user without a bijuu can never hope to gather truly crazy amounts of NE on his/her own(excepting maybe Hashirama :hmm )
     
  22. GuidingThunder Get out of my way !

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    Weird , i was just gonna talk about that :hm
    This is my point , the Rinnegan grants you the ability to seal the Juubi with the Rikudo Juubi Kyuin , this tho , doesn't mean that the Juubi is a Rinnegan power :geg
    What you should do is seperating between a certain power , which is the Bijuu in this case , and the ability to control said power .
    Yeah ....:LOS
    If you have a blood contract and you managed to turn a Bijuu into your personal summon , then conrats , it's your power now.That's why the Kyuubi was considered Madara's power , because it is his personal summon , and he could just summon it at any time .
    This isn't the case with Sasuke however .
    Irrelevant as i am not talking about the amount of NE you can absorb .
    You don't need a Bijuu to absorb NE , and it's not likely that Kurama could've done that w/o the RSM augmentations in the 1st place .
    Either way ,Kurama and Naruto are a perfect host , trying to seperate between them is meaningless .
     
  23. Klue 輪廻

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    That feat belongs to Kurama. He gathered all of that power. They both needed Bijuu.
     
  24. GuidingThunder Get out of my way !

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    Yes , a six paths enhanced Kurama , can you prove he could've done that w/o the RSM augmentations ?
    And no , Naruto is a perfect Jin , so don't pull that " hurr durr Kurama+Naruto " card on me :cat
     
  25. Klue 輪廻

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    Why do I care too? Not really relevant right now.

    I have no issue with him using the power he receives from Kurama. :sag

    But you're clearly being bias if you're going to call their teamwork Naruto's power, but try to act as if a doujutsu user's control over Tailed Beast isn't their power.

    Can't have it both ways, that's ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  26. The Orange Hokage Member

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    ? I didn't call it rinnesharingan. I meant he has rinnegan & Sharingan at his side. Rinnegan can learn all techs while Sharingan can copy them. :cat
     
  27. GuidingThunder Get out of my way !

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    Alright then .
    Rubbish.
    This is as smart as saying Kyuubi should be Itachi's power as well , just because he has the MS which can control the 9 tails .
    Yes , they can control the Bijuu , but they need to get them first, they aren't always in possession of them .
     
  28. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    Mind reading bro. :LOS

    Do not Sages draw on NE which normally isn't with them just like bijuus (usually) aren't with Uchihas? The Sharingan/Rinnegan allows to control and use the power of the bijuus just like Sages can control and use the power of nature. In Rinnegan's case it can allow the user to not just control the bijuu but to draw chakra from bijuus which makes the similarity to SM even more similar IMO.

    In both cases the user can use his/her power to draw on great chakra sources with his/her respective power.

    Hmmm, though Sasuke does in theory have all the tools to do that too. Indra's chakra, EMS, was shown controlling bijuus after getting the Rinnegan and is skilled in summoning.

    I was considering Obito too...though given Kurama's reference to Madara's blood it may mean Indra's chakra in his blood which Obito always lacked. Kurama himself compared Sasuke to Madara though.

    Its kinda like we never saw Naruto or Minato summon Ma and Pa but we can guess that they can do so too given how they possess the tools to do so.


    True, I was just referring to Sages in general and not Naruto in particular.

    Obviously not every Uchiha obtained such crazy eye power as Obito or Madara for example.
     
  29. Klue 輪廻

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    I know you didn't call it that. Pointing out that it isn't called Rinne Sharingan is my way of saying that Rinnegan and Sharingan are not separate; regardless, of what Rinne Sharingan implies.

    Proof is in the first image where Madara directly invokes Susanoo by using his Rinnegan, just as Obito fires Kamui with his Mangekyou. Rinnegan using Sharingan powers.

    Lol, my bad dawg. I didn't mean for it to sound so mean. :laugh

    So proximity is the reason why it's Naruto's power in his case.

    Are you serious?
     
  30. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    To be fair on Sasuke, he barely knew how to use the Rinnegan's full power in that battle.
     
  31. The Orange Hokage Member

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    @Klue
    Oh, i got confused for a sec. Let's just write this down as kishi not giving a fuck, as always. :catroll
     
  32. UltimaDude Member

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    Dude, the fact that the Rinne Sharingan exists proves that the Rinnegan and Sharingan are seperate dojutsu.

    When Susano was first shown, Itachi was using it while X. Much later on, Madara was able to use Susanoo while blinded. Once unlocked, you don't need the Sharingan/MS to use Susanoo So Madara using Susanoo with his Rinnegan active means absolutely nothing
     
  33. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Advisor

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    And now Klue will re-post the first image he presented in his second post in this thread. :sag
     
  34. Klue 輪廻

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    No point, he already said his peace.

    :raiden

    Too bad Sasuke's eye isn't called Rinne Sharingan. So maybe the assumption we're making on it's name isn't necessarily true.

    So stay open. :maybe

    Spoiler:

    X


    The fact that it can be used without eyes detracts from the fact that Susanoo can be built with eyes?

    X

    I can see if Rinnegan didn't allow the release of Susanoo specifically from the eyes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  35. UltimaDude Member

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    But his Rinnegan is cearly a merger of a Rinnegan and his Sharingan/MS.

    Actually it does. Once unlocked, the Sharingan/MS is no needed for a person to use it and no longer becomes a Sharingan/MS technique. So Madara and Sasuke using their Rinnegan to use Susanoo means absolutely nothing.
     
  36. Zef Well-Known Member

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    Why do we assume Sasuke's Rinnegan is a merger though?:wot

    It certainly wasn't stated at any point to be one. And the tomoe pattern isn't an exclusive trait to Sharingan ,*cough* Curse Seal *cough*
     
  37. UltimaDude Member

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    Hmm, is there any other Rinnegan-looking dojutsu with tomoes? Oh wait, there is, it's called the Rinne Sharingan. Since Sasuke's not-so-ordinary Rinnegan is just called a Rinnegan, then logic dictates that it's a merger of a Rinnegan and his Sharingan/MS
     
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  38. Zef Well-Known Member

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    "Sasuke's not-so-ordinary Rinnegan"

    According to who? To us it has clear differences and appears to have similarities to Rinne-Sharingan, but the narrative treats it like a regular Rinnegan.

    Not once do Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Madara, Hagaromo, Black Zetsu, Kaguya, or Sasuke himself comment on the fact that his Rinnegan is unique.

    No questions are raised for why it has tomoe.
    No questions are raised for why Sasuke only has one.

    Instead everyone pretends like it's the same tomoe-less Rinnegan we've seen. :lbj

    And this thinking that there is an "Ordinary" Rinnegan needs to be reevaluated.

    As it stands, the only ones who awakened a ordinary/normal Rinnegan are Hagaromo & Madara.

    The rest are different. Sasuke's has tomoe. Momoshiki has Red Rinnegan in the film, and Gold Rinnegan in the manga. He also apparently awoke it long before Hagaromo seeing as he knows of Kaguya, and Kaguya was apparently preparing for his arrival.

    So Hagaromo's Rinnegan should no longer be the standard for what a "Normal" or "Ordinary" Rinnegan is supposed to look like. Especially since we have Ootsutuki that are showing up with it despite not having Hagaromo's chakra which is said to awaken it.
    :lbj

    It's not enough to see tomoe and talk about logic dictating that there's a merger. Because logic clearly isn't being considered when we have freaking gold Rinnegan.
    :defeat
     
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  39. UltimaDude Member

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    What type of logic is this? Characters not mentioning or noticing the differences means there are no differences? So according to you, there's no difference between the SPSM Naruto used in the war and the one he used during Gaiden because Sasuke didn't make notice about the differences? Sasuke's Rinnegan is clearly unique

    Out of all of the Rinnegan shown, Sasuke's has tomoes, which clearly represents the present of his Sharingan/MS

    Your other points stand though and I don't have anything to say about the fkin golden Rinnegan and golden Byakugan. WTF is Ikemoto smoking?
     
  40. DarkShift assPumpin Mei terumiSpecialist

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    power produced by One Rinnegan is not equal to an entire set, or Sasuke's equivalent version of two


    The idea is that he can. Please Keep up. :lmao
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  41. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    Hmmm, though Momoshiki's Golden/Red Rinnegan isn't commented by anyone either as being strange/unique/special despite the color difference.

    Though the powers it grants are different from the standard Rinnegan set like creating Rock Golems, Wood heads and some cutting ring of power. Its Preta use differs from the standard too as it stores the absorbed jutsu and can use it anytime later in an amplified version.

    Kaguya's Rinne Sharingan was not once commented as being "special" too. Hagoromo referred to it as a Sharinagan even while Sasuke called MT a Rinnegan genjutsu.

    ...Guess Kishi had not yet made his mind on lots of Rinnegan issues and just used it as a plot device to achieve particular aims(like making Madara and Obito Juubi Jins, resurrecting Madara himself, awakening the Rinne Sharingan or to create Bijuu PS). Like as if Kishi decided that explanations were a chore so he did go with just "Rinnegan is powerful enough to do whatever the user wants" instead of establishing a "limit" and having later to bend said limit to introduce new aspects of said dojutsu.
     
  42. Zef Well-Known Member

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    Sharingan makes plenty of sense thank you very much :quite

    ------------------------

    > Awaken under emotional duress

    > Gain tomoe that increase perception

    > Experience emotional loss

    > Gain Mangekyou

    > Awaken ocular ability in both eyes

    > Gain Susano'o

    > Take eyes of close blood relative

    > Gain Eternal Mangekyou


    ^ Sharingan in a nutshell.

    The Sharingan's development concluded with Tobirama's little story to Sasuke. Everything about it has been explained. :edu


    Can't defend Rinnegan and Rinne Sharingan though. They have Ootsutki plot tainting, and convoluting them.
    :lbj
     
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  43. pat pat Well-Known Member

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    Even tho it got a little bit less exciting nearing the end of the manga, yes the sharingan makes perfect sense. But the problem is I don't even know if a distinction should be made between sharingan, rinnegan, rinne sharingan. Because with the panel klue posted the rinne sharingan is clearly called "sharingan".
    But for the sharingan there even is a veryyyyyyyyyyy good YouTube video that explains pretty munch everything about it and even the meaning of the mangekyu ( how a normal kaleidoscope explain on a symbolic level why mangekyu users gain different power up) but unfortunately it is in French. But like I said the sharingan is linked in every way to the rinnegan and the others eyes.
    But on an overall level, you are very right about the sharingan, the problem is that I doubt a distinction is made between sharingan/rinnegan /rinne sharingan ( this lack of distinction and explanation is what make me says those genjutsu don't make sense at the end).
     
  44. Platypus Moderator Moderator

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    Remember the Saimingan and Dousatsugan?

    :trinny
     
  45. pat pat Well-Known Member

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    sharingan can copy jutsus? Omg what a shock :catskully
     
  46. Zef Well-Known Member

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    Kishi ruining my Sharingan narrative.:scust
     
  47. DVD Moderator Moderator

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    Aren't those just the terms for Sharingan's insight and ability to cast genjutsu respectively? Not like they ever disappeared bar jutsu copying.:catthinks
     
  48. WorldsStrongest One of a Dying Breed

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    Not exactly what happened...and add to that naruto needed to steal a page out of Gokus playbook and actually use the planets energy for essentially a spirit bomb in order to stalemate sasuke...

    Sasuke had the 9 biju...

    Naruto had the entire planets NE that kurama spoon fed him...

    They both kinda made asspulls, so lets just leave it at that.
     
  49. GuidingThunder Get out of my way !

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    It was never stated that he absorbed the NE from the entire planet , you can check the VIZ translation for that .
    Sasuke's strongest technique , his susanoo , were being blocked by Kurama's tail before he powered up by the Bijuu .He needed the BPS to actually be a threat .
    Of course , the Bijuu are once in a life time power up that he'll never have again, while Naruto can always draw the NE whenever he wants , cuz he's a sage ..
     
  50. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    "Everything that's available" could support the other translations' version which says he used the world's natural energy.

    To be fair, Sasuke was a rookie with his Rinnegan. Kurama even noted this, for instance he said Sasuke's newly awakened Rinnegan can't absorb jutsu while putting out chakra; we saw Nagato absorb chakra while using Human Realm and using shared vision*.
    Of course, Naruto wasn't using his frog katas or other Bijuu powers either and now he's got 100% Kurama.

    *One would assume that chakra is needed for that?
     

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