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new Possible changes to reputation system

Discussion in 'The Konoha Times' started by Crowe, Mar 22, 2009.

Which option do you think is the best for the forum? PLEASE READ OPENING POST

  1. Removing neg rep

    299 vote(s)
    46.6%
  2. The rep in rep power is gone and ranks past 100K are gone/100K is renamed

    343 vote(s)
    53.4%
Thread Status:
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  1. Crowe inactive - most of the time

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    We appreciate any ideas/advices you might have but remember that the reason why we are even considering this is because the current system is causing too much problem. We might not even make any changes but we removed that option since we want to know which of these two option you might consider best for the forum and for yourself.
     
  2. Taxman Rail Tracer Lord of the Lock

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    It looks like I'm going to need to explain a few things....

    I hope my "will rape for food" avy keeps your attention enough to at least brace for this tl;dr...

    We specifically said that no matter what you voted for, it didn't necessarily mean that we were going to perform that action.

    We could do option one (though I personally dislike this one)
    We could do option two (which makes a bit more sense to me, but hey...I'd rather follow Mad Stan's philosophy and blow the whole thing up..or just stop caring about it myself).
    We could make it a free-for-all. (S_S would love this)
    We could keep it as is. (which we knew most of you would vote for anyway thus why it wasn't even a poll option)
    We could even change the rules around!

    Staff members believe the system is flawed due to the increasing amount of rep complaints and abuses we've been having to look into...so we wanted a solution for the question "how do we make the rep system less flawed?"

    Staff members inherently believe that "repwhoring is bad" because it defaces what "rep" was originally intended to do...feedback and how contributive a member is. For some reason we wish to get rep to fairly show who is a contributive member and who is just a basic spammer and troll :awesome

    Some staff members believe that repwhoring is cheating a system (that is quite arbitrary anyway) due to a lack of feasible contributions.

    Some staff members are thinking for the little guy, yet think the reason why people whore is to neg people with a bigger neg PUNCH (which isn't necessarily true...whoring happens to stroke egos...but stroking egos does give some of you guys too much power to ruin a newbies day and thus come whining to us and then we (the smods and admins) go looking into the comment left and only find an image of yamato wood or a big red cock rooster which ends up getting you and your friends rep sealed and then we get a bitchfest from both sides...just really puts us off and we get more complaints than most people in this thread probably think we get).

    Don't deny it...gang negs on noobies and other members have been done for ridiculous reasons. It certainly doesn't help seeing the "order of the red cock", or members of GB and UG, etc. go through this...nor is it "fun" having to deal with the latest victim of a mass neg from a group formed by members with the largest rep powers who may or may not have gotten their reps from non-contributive manners (and no "being inherently awesome" doesn't count :sag)

    Some staff members are like Spy Smasher and only want to see the world burn (ha I knew I'd get a TDK reference in here somewhere)

    Also, we should probably mention that removing the ranks after 500k, instead of 100k, has been discussed. We'd just change the last rank to "member has won the game CONGRATS!" The reason why impossible ranks are even being considered for removal is because they are impossible to obtain. duh.

    Giving people a goal is great...but even some goals are completely unrealistic. Make it possible for anyone to win the rep game. When you've won the rep game, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't find a new game to play amirite? So we change the last rank to you "winning" at some contest for internet numbers and then you go off and want to win at another game like the contests and being the most awesome member ever award. Or make a new game amongst your friends on who can reach the next level of 100k and force your friends to make a set for you about how you won amongst them :awesome (since we'd be removing the whoring rules with option 2 so we wouldn't really care about your new game as long as comments didn't derail a thread)

    Back to the point I guess...We wanted to see what you guys thought between the two most "extreme" solutions of the question "how do we make the rep system less flawed"

    In no way does this mean we'll actually remove negs or remove "reputation" from the rep power equation.

    And hey...most of all...you guys can use this as a platform as to how you'd think the rep system could be better (of course let's be feasible here...you'll need to come up with something we can implement without the help of M.Bison and Tazmoholic)...so I guess changing up the rules :sag

    Sure this isn't a democracy, but we like to take serious suggestions seriously :amuse

    So if you guys have some intuitive suggestions on how you'd think the rep system could be better, now would be a good time to bring up ideas.

    (and god damn it if this appears as the last post in the thread or if my last point about you guys giving your input on how to make the rep system better is ignored, I'm fucking locking this thread so you guys are forced to read it *lol counter-intuitive FTL*).
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  3. Ark 2.0 Working as intended

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    argh....lad, this is highly cotroversial and i forsee great problems for this in the future...argh
     
  4. Geg Very Rude Super Moderator

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    Wait that was the whole problem with repwhoring and rep threads? Because you were afraid of negging?
     
  5. Ark 2.0 Working as intended

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    argh...and flaming and what not, if someone is insulting and such you neg, so what now, wehen ever that happens you summon a mod...thats not very functional...argh
     
  6. Geg Very Rude Super Moderator

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    The second change doesn't sound good either, especially the getting rid of all ranks above 100k. Surely like half of the current active members have at least 100k.
     
  7. Kittan THIS FORUM HAS GONE TO SHIT

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    Keep the negs, its a great way to express hate

    Don't remove the ranks if you were to do the latter, they're there to symbolize how much you have achieved in your forum run
     
  8. Saruto Penises everywhere

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    REMOVE NEG REP?

    AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    <this is a placeholder post btw, don't delete it>
     
  9. The Space Cowboy Unfair, Unjust, Human Advisor

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    How is people getting bent out of shape about little red marks, and the reduction of some number on a server somewhere a problem? Negs are a decent way to express hatred without starting a post-consuming flame-war.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  10. olaf Cthulhu Fhtagn!

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    so if I flame or post exclitic picture in rep it will be allright?

    well fuck

    leave it as it is
     
  11. Loki custom title want a loki

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    Well doesn't metter for me, you can change it or leave as it is .
     
  12. Ark 2.0 Working as intended

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    argh...Pek please explain how only giving pos rep is gonna stop repwhores, it'll only make then stornger now that they can't get neged, and now the FCs can simply mass Pos each other without fear of reprecursion, i'm sorry but this plan of your is hight ineffeicent...argh
     
  13. Slips Fuck off

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    Removing neg rep

    No thanks

    whats next

    ban cussing
    ban arguing


    For me its part of the forum and if it gets removed it would be a shame because a few people cried about internet points
     
  14. Saruto Penises everywhere

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    I'll just point out that option 2 is completely without merit, because that reduces its role to merely reflecting post count and join date. Both of which are clearly visible anyway. So option 2 should really be, "remove rep altogether".
     
  15. Crowe inactive - most of the time

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    Yatta yatta. Buhuuu, "mods ruining the forum" etc. Keep those posts in blender if you want.
    I don't know. I think the staff just loves to argue over a month in a thread with ~20 or so pages just for fun, since none of us have anything better to do.


    Keep this thread clean as said and if you blenderites want to bitch; do so in Blender. This is not guaranteed changes. Just choose one of the lesser evil-
     
  16. Kittan THIS FORUM HAS GONE TO SHIT

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    The lesser evil would be the second one, without removing the ranks.
     
  17. Psallo a Cappella Basic bitch, get out my face.

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    I would rather not make any changes. My view's skewed, though; I've just never had any issues with positive / negative reps. Personally, I believe people are bent out of shape by negative reps, especially when the messages are "I don't like _____" or "You're ______." The insults and negative reps on personal taste, while petty . . . one or two postive reps obliterate anyway. I guess I feel negative reps for any reason are not a big deal.

    Seconded; it seems as if it would / does cut down on people lunging for the "Report" icon.

    And if people isolating, or insulting one another because of the differences in negative / positive reps was the issue, removing negative reps will simply spur people to want more positive rep than the others.

     
  18. Hiroshi Super Moderator

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    Maybe that they were encouraging repwhoring which was disallowed previously due the unfair adv. it put over other users. With these two plans repwhoring won't be looked after as they will be negated.

    613 members in total have ranks above 100K - which isn't a majority. But take into account how many users above this number have repwhored to achieve the higher ranks. That reduces this number. Definitely NOT half the current active members.

    With the no neg plan, people won't complain about repwhoring because it can't affect them via neg rep repercussion. People can't complain about rep whorers because everyone has an equal chance to just rep whenever to whomever in this term.
     
  19. Saruto Penises everywhere

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    COULD I GET AN ANSWER, YO?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2009
  20. Hatifnatten Banned

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    keep the neg, remove the rep.
     
  21. Kenneth

    SAVEd whore

    Deterministrator Administrator

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    Well, ranks are kind of fun, and neg reps, well... Are abused more often than being used right. :ano I don't neg a lot myself because I don't see the use in giving out neg reps. =/
     
  22. Felt ベストガール Administrator

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    Hi there, I would first like to ask why X was left open when you clearly had plans of your own with no consideration for the members. That thread had a poll, as you can see the poll clearly shows that the majority of people want the system left the same, so you have either completely ignored that and hence not cared for what the members want. Or you have listened and chose to completely go against the members, which again is not caring for the members.

    You are the moderators of this forum, this is not a business, there will be things that some people do not want but the majority DO WANT. Why do you feel the need to change something like this? I know that you as the staff have the overall say and what I'm saying has no reflextion on your actions but you are doing this for your personal gain and not for the enjoyment of the members.

    If you ignored the other poll then you'll probably ignore this poll to, you don't have any interest in what we want so just go ahead and make your own minds up, we mean nothing to you.

    Spoiler:
    balls
     
  23. robotnik Banned

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    man in the new system no one would've been able to neg me for that post

    but now you can
     
  24. colours ava by Big Boss

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    hm, ok

    i dislike both options so i choose option "none of the above"
     
  25. Miss Happy ♥ cuteholic ♥

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    Spoiler:
    add more cute faces please!:iria
    please!Please!Please!
    PPPPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!

    if you don't do that i'll gonna die!:zaru
    They are very important for my daily existence...:amuse
    oh and don't keep the negs they are ugly :hmpf
     
  26. Vandal Savage Game Theory Administrator

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    For some on the staff that was the only problem with rep whoring. Unfair rep powers negging others with their powers.

    If someone flames report it.

    613 at 100K or above.

    110 at 500K or above.

    Try dealing with 400 active members with a great portion of them abusing their rep either way.

    It isn't going to stop rep whores. In the views of some, it just stops mattering since they won't have unfair neg power to use against others.

    They won't.

    It is removing the main problems with rep power to begin with more or less.

    Removing rep altogether probably won't be happening.
     
  27. Felt ベストガール Administrator

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    Put a 3rd option none of the above, it will show you where we stand.
     
  28. Ark 2.0 Working as intended

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    argh...they why not remove rep then, then all problems would be solved since without negs it losses its purpose...argh
     
  29. CyberSwarmKing Banned

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    Better get rid of negs than ranks :argh

    I mean ranks are fun and are some motivation towards quality posting.

    Negging can be abused anyway.
     
  30. Teach Dio

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    Keep the rep ranks but remove the rep in rep power
     
  31. Hiroshi Super Moderator

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    I would love to remove rep altogether. Removing the 'rep' in rep power makes it so that people can't have influence on each other by how much rep they have. Higher repper can't hurt/help users just because of their rep.

    Here are some numbers:

    Member #1
    Rep: 193176 (With 761K of the rep already removed due to request)
    Posts: 26608
    Join Date: 8/24/06

    Current Rep Power: 920

    Remove the 193 rep power and that puts the user at 727 rep power.

    Member #2
    But if you take one of the Repwhorers for example you will get something like this:

    Rep: 2345012
    Posts: 6855
    Join Date: 6/26/07

    Current Rep Power: 2611

    Remove the 2345 from rep and that leaves 266 rep power.

    Quite the huge jump between the 2 right? The difference here is even with all of the rep removed from Member #1 they rep for a decent amount. (mainly because of post count and I've been here for 2+ years now)

    Where as someone who knows how to exploit the system can easily surpass Member #1 based on rep alone. And I'm hardly the example of an average member. What do you think the comparison is for someone who doesn't have huge post counts or an older join date? The gap grows even wider. Repwhorers know how to exploit the system.
     
  32. Laex &#803

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    i say keep it that same, but out of the 2 choices, the latter, neg rep is sometimes good where as some ppl enjoy having they're neg rep, and neg rep is sometimes useful when you really dislike/disaprove of one thing/post.
     
  33. .44 κελαινεφής

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    Delete this post for no reason too, please.

    Also, I agree with Hollie. There's no way a majority or even plurality would support one of the new options if a third option of 'leave it the same' were offered.
     
  34. Saruto Penises everywhere

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    Where the fuck is my "VETO THIS SHIT YOU FAGGOTS" options? I almost feel like grabbing my xbox controller and rabidly pressing the X button.

    Jesus christ, what the fuck is wrong with your set? Disgusting.

    1. Okay, I don't know what these problems are or how they affect the redundancy of rep if policy 2 was carried out, but cool

    2. Cool story bro, see the latter half of (1.)
     
  35. Sunuvmann of the Rebellion

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    Where did my posts go? It contributed because these are wrong options.

    Basically these choices are shit.

    Why?

    Removing neg repping, you are removing our only way to express dislike at things people say on this forum. You are mods. You can delete posts if you dislike them. What can we do? All we can do is neg. Or flame. But the latter gets us in trouble. So I would say negging is the lesser of two evils.

    Second choice, removing rep from the equation, well that just means more power to the post whores and and discrimination to newbies. There is no way to increase your join date unless you become Reznor

    And then again, you'd get more people who are post whoring, meaning more spam for you Hiroshi to clean up. Enjoy.

    Do you really want TWF to become the most powerful rep person on NF? :apathy
     
  36. Kikyo Some day...

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    What about ppl who like having red rep bars and negative ranks?
     
  37. Plot Hole GB

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    I like me ranks remove negs just not ranks:cry
     
  38. Kyo. Eskimo Balls

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    none of the options are appealing at all.

    so, none of the above.
     
  39. 【Temari】 Banned

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    just remove the fucking neg :zaru
     
  40. colours ava by Big Boss

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    burn them at the stake !
     
  41. Yondaime FLEE ON SIGHT Advisor

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    Did you read the part about rep ranks above 100k being removed? When members have a reasonable rank to reach and they don't have to rep whore forever to get to it, then there will be fewer instances of it. What;s the use of mass pos repping if you can reach the rank quickly?
     
  42. Cronos <i><b><font color="#990000">of the Rebellion</font

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    neg repping is a form of banning that normal members do, how would you feel if someone removed your bannhamer?

    we need to keep things straight between each other, so if i don't like someone or something he posts i will neg him, maybe the next time he won't to something as stupid.
     
  43. Hunted by sister d(ಠ_ರೃ)b

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    Lesser evil... removing neg reps.

    It's logical, your reputation should affect your reputation's power. And neg reps don't do anything except upsetting people. But then again, a neg rep is a way to tell someone "you're so stupid my words can't express it" without insuilting anyone.

    Better, try setting the whole system straight. According to Rep FAQ, my rep power should be around 265. But I think it's around 300. What the hell.

    //HbS
     
  44. Koi elite porn commando

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    I honestly think we should just get rid of the ability to see one's rep rank upon mouseover of the bar.
     
  45. Sunuvmann of the Rebellion

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    Lol. Hollie.

    So you're saying people who post a fuckton but of zero content, because post whores know how to exploit the system as well, deserve more sway then valued members who have contributed a lot to the board, they just happened to join later and prefer posting in sections that don't have posts.

    I can totally see the logic behind that.
     
  46. The Pink Ninja Infamous Cocksucker

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    The system is fine as it is. Leave it. Don't go around fucking with it.

    I'll deny I ever said this but my rep is important to me because it means so many people found what I wrote funny or clever or cool. When I found out I had 86 pages of rep (Even more than Susano-o) I was really chuffed.

    In short, leave it alone.

    If you must do something, add more ranks below le Sans Pareil for the people who aren't Oldbies/Blenderites to earn.

    As for negs, removing that doesn't remove the ability to leave hurtful comments which the person will see every time they check their rep.

    Also, without negs how can we get at people who make stupid/insulting/offensive posts without making a flame reply in their thread?
     
  47. Legend King of Tits

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    I like the ranks:quite, so i would actually like if you would change the scale of it. The "neg" is pretty much useless and only used to flame so it can go.
     
  48. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

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    Then give away harsher punishments, half their rep, a week ban is not really a punishment.

    Don't really know if lots of people are whoring these days, I woulda guessed it's not much of a problem with the new system anyway ...

    I'm not for taking away negs, I've always been in favor of increasing neg rep power, cuz a neg really doesn't do shit now, and I think a neg is a good way for members to tell other members that their post isn't appreciated, it's more direct and easier than to report a post, reporting a post doesn't guarantee that mods will do anything about it anyway. With a neg you can clearly say what you wanna say in an easy way. Same with a pos rep.

    Furthermore, I think everyone (mods) is getting a little overboard with wanting to control revenge negging and whatsoever.

    I think the system works fine and whore will be whores no matter how you change the system.
     
  49. Saruto Penises everywhere

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    Remove rep alltogether? So people are judged on the merit of their posts and the content of their character? BLASPHEMY. Of course, this will have some benefits. And a lot of negative repercussions.

    You seem very paranoid about the "harm" high rep powered people can cause, and it's affecting your judgement I think. You're not allowing yourself to see any potential good points of a reputation system. Furthermore, you make it sound like we have some kind of endemic repwhoring situation, I don't think that's entirely true.

    And this doesn't answer how pointless it would be to have rep only reflect join date and post count. There's no point. What's the point of have a REPUTATION SYSTEM - and think about what that means - if people can't alter your REPUTATION.

    Xbox live - Avoid player, Prefer player. If he's someone good to interact with, then you pos him.

    It's community moderating!

    WAIT, THIS IS THE NF STAFF TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHT TO DO COMMUNITY MODERATING! TAKING AWAY OUR LIBERTY!
     
  50. Hiroshi Super Moderator

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    Actually we left it open so that we can hear your guys [the public] opinion. Your opinion matters to us too if it's logical. We take it into consideration

    Some people who want the system left the same abuse it. It is a combination of what members like/want and what we feel is over-abused. I mean you guys do know that on NF the definition of reputation is not reflected properly at all, right?

    Because some people like the immediate positive/negative feedback system. Which really was it's original purpose, was it not?
     
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