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Naruto vs. One Piece Tournament

Discussion in 'Konoha Colosseum' started by Kuya, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    We need to start as soon as possible to take advantage of this activity we have. This discussion must always be moving forward say voting as soon as possible. Just remember that it's alright to go in half cocked and start the tourney prematurely because at the height of activity like Tournament 6 where we had trial tournaments then hosted the real tournament after. So let this tournament basically be a trial and we'll do another one right after but better adjusted and likely more fun.

    http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/semi-unrestricted-tier-list.642225/
    I think this list actually makes more sense as long as we adjust the speed calcs properly
    here's another unrestricted list but the tailed beasts and high tiers break it http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/ut-tier-list-discussion.845710/
    Ninjas are obviously faster and also they have shunshin which is basically their own soru for any well trained ninja.

    Spoiler: Here's some problematic characters

    baby 5 has better weaponry then most of the tier list
    sakon ukon for hax
    suigetsu isn't broken
    Shikamaru
    neji can shut down DF users
    tsunade even that strong in the OP universe? Sakura sure as hell is.
    Nico robin isn't exactly problematic because most of the ninjas have good reflexes and knives.
    Animal path can summon animals as big as Oz Jr but I don't think it's broken, OP super overvalues size
    yeti cool bros are so cheap and powerful
    Mr.3 is basically Yamato with less utility
    Wapol can combine characters a bit
    Sakon and ukon are even worse because of this
    Wiper is powerful
    Kinkaku/ginkaku gives OP characters extremely powerful weapons
    danzo as weak as kaku? Danzo's wind blasts are obviously stronger, his strongest wind attack is basically a weaker general canon
    General franky is basically asura realm but more versitile
    hidan even a threat or is his OHKO valuable when the enemy is so durable?
    Foxy's noro noro beam will be fun
    Mei is pretty crazy I think she's well priced though

    could be broken:
    KISAME IS BANNED
    (He makes the entire thing less fun)
    Law - innumerable reasons why. Isn't he basically better than minato with his ability to warp anything in his room? We need an artifical cooldown on his warping.
    PX-4 explains the need to watch durability closely
    Teach is like mixed pain path deva + preta, what's his largest black hole
    Pica golem smashes everyone + gaara
    Tayuya/Gengetsu for genjutsu spam
    Ussop and Nami are the super utilities of the OP tier list that have been made invaluable by powerscaling, but against the naruto tier list they are just as potent.
    Torune's ohko bugs that no one has knowledge of
    taiseki + Sharingan is crazy because you need haki to find him
    Tobirama has regular clones with water lasers,
    Regular tobi is rediculous because no knowledge OHKO wood


    Also is Kinjite legal?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  2. Kuya God of the 5th Dimension

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    I think we legalized Kinjite in the most recent tier lists.
     
  3. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    I feel the real question at this point is do we want to use the semi-unrestricted Tier list or the regular tier list, because honest the tiers scale way better in the unrestricted because there are large power gaps just like in the OP tier list.

    I honestly feel the semi-unrestricted is more closely balanced against the OP tier list than the standard tier list.

    To get the ball rolling.

    Standard Tier list: [0]
    Semi-unrestricted (http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/semi-unrestricted-tier-list.642225/): Dank0 [1]
     
  4. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Hold your horses, first we should define what powers are allowed at all plus some base calculations on speed, strength and AoE at least.
     
  5. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    I don't think the powers is an issue. Everything seems to be in order. However if Tsunade is as strong as burgess, there's a huge problem of OP characters not having functional strength meanwhile Tsunade and Sakura provide it cheap. The problem is usually on the other foot where Ninjas are weak as hell and OP fodder can casually use trees as baseball bats. Since healing is a skill that the OP universe almost doesn't have. But honestly I think how hackable a trial run of this tournament would be, is worth way more than having a balanced and less exciting system. We should fix only what's broken, chaos is fun.

    AoE is completely scaled already. Both manga are drawn to be understood from a human scaling perspective. All the scaling can be taken at face value. Same with strength, if someone destroys/moves a boulder of a certain size, that size can be understood from human perspective. If you want to equalize striking strength against bodies, what you're really doing is equalizing durability. Say for example Might Gai's endurance is equal to sanji's meaning he would fair well against Sanji especially with his speed advantage in a drawn out physical fight but against Doflamingo who beat Sanji in CQC easily, Might Gai would get his ass handed to him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  6. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    We should still categorize the characters in tiers for the sake of clarity. All of them, meaning the base and unrestricted tier lists of both realms so we can have a better picture for ourselves which to use.
     
  7. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Here are the rules so far:

    - Logia intangibility is banned
    - teleportation is allowed
    - Suiton doesn't affect Devil Fruit users, only natural water does
    - Seastone (kairouseki) doesn't affect Naruto characters
    - black rods do not affect One Piece characters
    - Blackbeard's darkness power affects both verse equally (it absorbs and shuts down chakra on touch)




    List of Devil Fruits used:

    Logia:
    Sabo and Ace - fire
    Blackbeard - darkness
    Smoker - smoke
    Enel - lightning
    Crocodile - sand
    Caesar - air
    Monet - snow
    Caribou - swamp

    Paramecia:
    Jozu - diamond body
    Doflamingo - wire creation and control
    Luffy - rubber body
    Law - can do whatever he wants in an area
    Kuma - can repel anything with his paws
    Magellan - poison mastery
    Boa Hancock - can turn people and objets to stone
    Blackbeard - tremors (limited to Marineford feats, tilting banned)
    Blueno - can create portals between 2 points, can take others inside
    Ivankov - hormone manipulation
    Pica - can manipulate stone
    Trebol - sticky explosive goo
    Bartolomeo - unbreakable barrier (can create only one at a time)
    Diamante - can alter the shape and weight of objects
    Moria - shadow control
    Sugar - can turn people into toys erasing others memories about them
    Perona - ghosts that sap willpower
    Robin - can grow limbs on anything
    Pink - can swim in anything
    Gladius - can pop any object
    Bellamy - springs
    Kanjuro - Sai's clone
    Brook - undying, can send out his soul
    Jora - can turn anything into a painting
    Foxy - slow everything down for 30 seconds
    Machwise - can alter his weigt between normal - 10000 ton
    Baby 5 - can turn into any weapon she wants to
    Rosinante - silence anything in a radius
    Funk bros - can wear anything like a coat
    Viola - Byakugan on steroids
    Vander Decken - never miss a target marked by him
    Hina - can cage anything she touches
    Inazuma - can cut through anything
    Mr 1 - blade body
    Buffalo - rotors
    Absalom - invisibility
    Mr 2 - can shapeshift into other people
    Mr 3 - wax control
    Buggy - can split himself to pieces
    Kalifa - can turn herself into spikes
    Miss Christmas - dig through anything
    Wapol - can eat anything and combine them

    Zoan:
    Marco - phoenix
    Chopper - seven transformations
    Kaku - giraffe
    Jyabura - wolf
    Sandersonia & Mariegold - snake
    Pell - hawk
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  8. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    So does Preta absorb Magellan's DF based poison? Are both energy based attacks classified as Chi/Chakra?
     
  9. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    Alright I made a little list. I'm sure it's bias and awful but it's something for now. So give me some hard critiques.

    http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/unrestricted-tier-list.849250/#post-44455286

    The fastest characters are equalized Raikage E = G4 Luffy/Marco. Also assuming for scale in speed Sasuke = Doflamingo. I tend to think that Naruto attacks are more lethal because they are protrayed as such, meanwhile One Piece is liberal with violence.


    Madara
    Nagato
    Mu

    70 ? Shinobi no Kami
    Unrestricted Kabuto
    A tailed beast with their beast
    Killer Bee
    Orochimaru
    Jiraiya
    Deva Realm Pain unrestricted
    Taka Sasuke
    Doflamingo (no Birdcage, Parasite or Awakening)
    Law (no Soul Switching, Room limited to vs. Smoker)

    62 ? Legendary Kage
    Itachi
    Naruto
    Kisame
    Deidara
    Luffy no EG Gatling, gear stacking - G4 limited to 5min
    Marco (limited regen)
    Zoro
    Magellan
    Pica (Max Golem Mass capped at Chapter 747 showing)

    54 Standard Naruto Tier list ends here:
    Ginkaku and kinkaku with Version 2
    Hebi Sasuke
    Danzō
    Gai (Needs new profiles.)
    Tobirama
    Minato
    Ē
    Restricted Sage Naruto
    Jozu (no Full Body Diamond)
    Sabo (w/o Mera Mera no Mi)
    Kuma (can only repel himself/items up to 50m)

    48 ? Mid Kage
    Gengetsu
    Kakashi
    Yonbi Naruto
    Restricted Sage Jiraiya
    Restricted Minato
    Sasori
    Kakuzu
    Restricted Kisame
    Boa Hancock
    Marshall D. Teach (pre-Marineford)
    Jinbei
    Blueno
    Cavendish
    Vergo
    Enel (w/o Raigou, Raijin, or Vertical El Thor)

    42 ? Low Kage
    Tobi
    Mei
    Portgaz D. Ace W/Entei
    Ivankov (no Revival Hormones)
    Franky (w/ General Robot)
    Perona

    36 — Elite Jōnin
    Kisame
    Sarutobi
    Sanbi Naruto (Three Kyūbi Tails)
    Deva Realm Pain
    Gai
    Sanji

    30 — High Jōnin
    Gaara
    Jiraiya (w/o Sage Mode)
    Itachi
    Kakashi
    Asura Realm Pain
    Danzō
    Konan
    Hanzō
    Smoker
    Jesus Burgess
    Crocodile
    Caesar Clown (no Shinokuni)
    Monet
    Punk Hazard Dragon (Large)
    Hody (Drugged)
    Gladius
    Chopper
    PX-4 (Unlimited)

    24 — Mid Jōnin
    Darui
    Chiyo
    Yamato
    Tsunade
    Animal Realm Pain
    Bartolomeo
    Trebol
    Diamante
    Oars Jr.
    Nico Robin
    Bellamy
    Baby 5
    Yeti Cool Brothers

    20 — Low Jōnin
    Zabuza
    Part I Gaara
    Rōshi
    Sakura
    Gecko Moria
    Senor Pink
    Chinjao
    Nami
    Usopp
    Rob Lucci
    Kaku
    Jyabura
    Ideo
    Viola
    Ikaros Much (drugged)

    16 — Tokubetsu Jōnin
    Kinkaku/Ginkaku
    Hidan
    Jūgo
    Asuma
    Preta Realm Pain
    Kimimaro
    Kankurō
    Chōji
    Kitsuchi
    Sugar (memories are retained)
    Kyros (1 Leg)
    Brook
    Elizabello II
    Hajrudin
    Mr. 1
    Zeo (drugged)
    Mr.3

    12 — Elite Chūnin
    Shī
    Temari
    Part I Naruto
    Kidōmaru
    Shikamaru
    Neji
    Yugito
    Mifune
    Kabuto (w/o Orochimaru)
    Kurotsuchi
    Kin'emon
    Don Sai
    Foxy
    Ryuuma
    Inazuma
    Absalom

    10 — High Chūnin
    Suigetsu
    Ino
    Chōza
    Rock Lee
    Sai
    Kiba
    Karin
    Sentoumaru
    Dellinger
    Hyouzou (drugged)
    Hack
    Tashigi

    8 — Mid Chūnin
    Sakon/Ukon
    Shino
    Inoichi
    Dodai
    Kurotsuchi
    Human Realm Pain
    Rosinante Donquixote
    Funk Brothers
    Sandersonia
    Marigold
    Miss Goldenweek
    Kalifa

    6 — Low Chūnin

    Torune
    Part I Sasuke
    Tayuya
    Aoba
    Haku
    Jirōbō
    Hinata
    Omoi
    Ittan
    Naraka Realm Pain
    Lao G
    Caribou
    Machvise
    Blue Gilly
    Hina
    Dosun(Drugged)
    Buffalo
    Pell
    Buggy
    Wapol

    4 — Elite Genin
    Taiseki
    Gaiden Kakashi
    Shizune
    Mahiru
    Izumo
    Toroi
    Atsui
    Vander Decken IX
    Rebecca

    3 — High Genin
    Hayate
    Kakkō
    Dosu
    Team Oboro
    Muta
    Sabu
    Akatsuchi
    Kanjuro
    Mr. 2

    2 — Mid Genin
    Zaku
    Demon Brothers
    Obito
    Tenten
    Yashamaru
    Shigure
    Konohamaru
    Maki
    Hanyabal

    1 — Low Genin
    Kotetsu
    Misumi
    Yoroi
    Kin
    Part I Sakura
    Rin
    Ms. Merry Christmas
     
  10. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    I have cleaned it up a bit.

    Players will have 182 points and teams must have at least 1 character from both verse:


    120
    Madara
    Nagato
    Mu
    Kisame

    108
    Unrestricted Kabuto
    Killer Bee (semi-restricted: no Bijuudama)
    Orochimaru (semi-restricted)
    Jiraiya
    Deva Realm Pain (unrestricted)
    Taka Sasuke
    Doflamingo (no Birdcage, Parasite or Awakening)
    Law (no Soul Switching, Room limited to vs. Smoker)
    Minato (double Shiki Fuuin and BM is banned)
    Kakashi (has only 1 MS)
    Oonoki (no Jinton lightsaber)

    96
    Itachi (semi-unrestricted)
    Naruto (semi-unrestricted)
    Deidara
    Luffy (no Elephant Gatling, no gear stacking, G4 limited to 5min)
    Magellan
    Pica (Max Golem Mass capped at Chapter 747 showing)

    84
    Zoro
    Ginkaku and Kinkaku with Version 2
    Hebi Sasuke
    Danzō
    Gai (no 8th Gate)
    Tobirama
    Ē
    Restricted Sage Naruto
    Jozu (no Full Body Diamond)
    Sabo (w/o Mera Mera no Mi)
    Kuma (can only repel himself/items up to 5km)
    Blackbeard (has both DF, Gura powers limited to Marineford, no tilting)

    74
    Gengetsu
    Sasori
    Kakuzu
    Restricted Kisame
    Boa Hancock
    Jinbei
    Blueno
    Cavendish
    Vergo
    Enel (w/o Raigou, Raijin, or Vertical El Thor)

    66
    Tobi (no Kamui)
    Mei
    Portgaz D. Ace (no Entei)
    Ivankov (no Revival Hormones)
    Franky (without General Robot)
    Perona

    58
    Sarutobi
    Sanbi Naruto
    Sanji

    52
    Marco (no regeneration)
    Unrestricted Gaara
    Itachi
    Kakashi (no Kamui)
    Asura Realm Pain (unrestricted)
    Danzō
    Konan (no Paper Ocean)
    Hanzō
    Smoker
    Jesus Burgess
    Crocodile (can not be on the same team as Gaara)
    Caesar Clown (no Shinokuni)
    Monet
    Punk Hazard Dragon (Large)
    Hody (Drugged)
    Gladius
    Chopper
    PX-4 (Unlimited)
    Sugar (memories are retained)

    44
    Tsunade (can not boost DF powers)
    Animal Realm Pain (unrestricted)
    Bartolomeo
    Trebol
    Diamante
    Oars Jr.
    Nico Robin
    Bellamy
    Yeti Cool Brothers
    Don Sai

    40
    Zabuza
    Rōshi (restricted to V1)
    Sakura (can not boost DF powers)
    Gecko Moria
    Senor Pink
    Chinjao
    Rob Lucci
    Kaku
    Jyabura
    Ideo
    Ikaros Much (drugged)
    Tayuya
    Lao G

    36
    Darui
    Chiyo
    Yamato
    Baby 5
    Part I Gaara
    Nami
    Usopp

    Foxy
    Inoichi
    Ino

    32
    Preta Realm Pain
    Human Realm Pain
    Machvise
    Miss Goldenweek
    Naraka Realm Pain

    24
    Absalom
    Mifune
    Kyros (1 Leg)

    20
    Hidan
    Jūgo
    Asuma
    Kimimaro
    Kankurō
    Chōji
    Kitsuchi
    Brook
    Elizabello II
    Hajrudin
    Mr. 1
    Zeo (drugged)
    Mr.3

    16
    Rosinante Donquixote
    Sandersonia
    Marigold

    12
    Shī
    Temari
    Part I Naruto
    Kidōmaru
    Shikamaru
    Neji
    Yugito (restricted to V1)
    Kurotsuchi
    Kin'emon
    Ryuuma
    Inazuma

    10
    Suigetsu
    Chōza
    Rock Lee
    Sai
    Kiba
    Karin
    Sentoumaru
    Dellinger
    Hyouzou (drugged)
    Hack
    Tashigi

    8
    Sakon/Ukon
    Shino
    Dodai
    Kurotsuchi
    Funk Brothers
    Kalifa

    6
    Torune
    Part I Sasuke
    Aoba
    Haku
    Jirōbō
    Omoi
    Ittan
    Caribou
    Blue Gilly
    Hina
    Dosun (Drugged)
    Buffalo
    Pell
    Buggy
    Wapol

    4
    Taiseki
    Gaiden Kakashi
    Shizune
    Mahiru
    Izumo
    Atsui
    Vander Decken IX
    Rebecca

    2
    Viola
    Zaku
    Obito
    Hinata
    Tenten
    Yashamaru
    Shigure
    Konohamaru
    Maki
    Hanyabal
    Hayate
    Kakkō
    Dosu
    Team Oboro
    Muta
    Sabu
    Akatsuchi
    Kanjuro
    Mr. 2

    1
    Toroi
    Kotetsu
    Misumi
    Yoroi
    Kin
    Part I Sakura
    Rin
    Ms. Merry Christmas
    Demon Brothers
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  11. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    How would Genjutsu work against One Piece characters?
     
  12. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    In order to make a cross-verse match happen we established that DFs are splinters of the chakra fruit. Therefore:

    - people with DF would be affected
    - people WITHOUT DF powers would be immune to genjutsu (no chakra to mess with)
    - DF users with confirmed Haki would be able to resist weaker genjutsu (Tsukoyomi, Senpo: Mugen Onsa and Senpo: Gamarinsho would affect them but others would not)
    - affected DF users can be slapped back to reality
     
  13. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    This tier list looks really fun.

    Viola is this women http://hero.wikia.com/wiki/Violet_(One_Piece)
    She has super byakugan, mind reading, and can hold her own in combat. She should be moved up.

    So DF users are weak to Neji, Chakra disruption rods, genjutsu, and water? But non-DF OP characters are immune to those. is this a balancing mechanism because it seems a little fucked.

    Lets do a sample match to work out the kinks.

    Sasori - 74
    Sakon - 8
    Usopp - 36
    Nami - 36
    Naruto - 12
    Shi - 12
    Izumo - 4
     
  14. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    Since Seastone doesn't affect ninjas, black rods won't affect pirates.

    OK, let's roll:

    Blackbeard (has both DF, Gura powers limited to Marineford, no tilting) - 84
    Zoro - 84
    Dodai - 8
    Taiseki - 4
    Hinata - 2
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  15. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    Could you put the match up, I have to go to work. Also are the item tradeoffs included in prep like in the OP dome, or do the item tradeoffs have to happen in match like Naruto. Because there will be a lot of that in this tournament where each side has interesting weapons. I feel it would be more efficient and at the very least more fun to do it the OP way.

    One Piece has 36 locations. Naruto has 22.
    Out of 58 I pulled 53 off random.org for
    Iron Country
    Medium: The teams start an appropriate distance outside with the ziggurat between them. At Medium they start on the first rampart, and at Long they start onthe groundfurther out, each team with a rampart in front of them and one behind.Line of Sight: NO.

    Key Information: The ziggurat is abandoned. The chamber of pillars is as it was before Sasuke's battles damaged/collapsed it.

    http://www.[Blocked Domain]/naruto/457/17
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  16. DookieMonster Just a fan

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    I think you can/should trial it, but you'll prove why we shouldn't lol
     
  17. RemChu The Spice must flow

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    Catdank Faction:
    - people WITHOUT DF powers would be immune to genjutsu (no chakra to mess with)
    That's not how genjutsu works, smh. Pretty sure shinobi could cast genjutsu on non ninjas
     
  18. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    Everyone human in naruto is descended of the chakra fruit eaters so in universal everyone has chakra for that reason. They have the physcial combination of mental and physical energy.

    Also strategies are up in the test match and mine is quite a riot lmao
     
  19. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Yes, genjutsu should be allowed on non genjutsu users, however, there needs to be some terms on who and what can break them out. Outside of allies, tailed beasts, unhuman means (arguments for Sasori and Kakuzu), Sharingan users, nothing else can break a person out of genjutsu at this point (unless voters feel personally they are too strong to be caught).

    One Piece characters only have the first option.
     
  20. Dank0 Forgot how to forum

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    Alright rego is posted and it will last through the holidays. The matchups will be posted Janurary 2nd, and Round 1 starts on Janurary 4th.
     
  21. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    What is restricted Kisame restricted to?


    And Kisame can flood the area right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  22. Franky ★Frankformer★

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    So I didn't see it in the registration but I saw somebody bring it up here and it feels somewhat important.

    If I submerge a DF user in water created through Suiton would they becomes weakened/lose their DF?
     
  23. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    I would think so, personally. Although that makes Kisame even more valuable.
     
  24. Franky ★Frankformer★

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    Well like there's an argument to be made that Suiton user could just say that they're creating sea water, it isn't unbelievable
     
  25. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Reposting this
     
  26. Franky ★Frankformer★

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  27. Kuya God of the 5th Dimension

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    i always forget about this, feels guilty
     
  28. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    Can anyone answer my question above?
     
  29. KyuubiFan Active Member

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    No, he's not allowed to flood. Here's his Tier List emntry for you lazies:

    Kisame

    Databook Statistics (Out of 5):
    Ninjutsu: 4.5
    Taijutsu: 4.5
    Genjutsu: 2.5
    Intelligence: 3.5
    Strength: 5
    Speed: 4
    Stamina: 5
    Seals: 3.5

    Allowed Jutsu:

    Kuchiyose no Jutsu
    Sharks


    Doton Ninjutsu
    Doton: Dochū Senkō


    Suiton Ninjutsu
    Mizu Bunshin no Jutsu (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39905)
    Suirō (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39911) no Jutsu (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39912) [1 (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4313&pictureid=45936)]
    Suiton: Goshokuzame (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39916)
    Suiton: (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39917) Suikōdan no Jutsu (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4313&pictureid=45934)
    Suiton: Senshokukō (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=43786)

    Samehada (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39907)
    Chakra Sensing (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39901)
    Chakra Shaving (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39902)
    Chakra (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39900) Replenishment (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4313&pictureid=45939)
    Fusion (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39904) [1 (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4313&pictureid=45938)]
    Regeneration (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39906)

    Equipment:
    Samehada (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39907)

    Knowledge:
    Kisame has knowledge up until his death.

    Special Rules, Restrictions, etc.
    ? Kisame may not fuse with Samehada.
    ? Suiton: (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39914) Bakusui Shōha (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=3781&pictureid=39913), Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4313&pictureid=45940), Suirō Sameodori no Jutsu (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4313&pictureid=45941), and Suiton: Daikōdan no Jutsu (http://www.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4015&pictureid=42383)are banned.
     
  30. Franky ★Frankformer★

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