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Might Guy (Seven gates) Vs Kisame (Samehada fusion form)

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Brickhunt, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. Brickhunt Battle Franky 800

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    I'm sure that we had a few threads about Guy vs Kisame with Samehada after their final battle at Turtle Island, but I'm not sure if that one was brought up, and after a recent discussion in this X I think we hit a speculation point.

    Supposing that Samehada didn't defect Kisame for Bee and he did try to escape from the island with it, he's intercepted by Guy and after the exchange between Morning Peacock vs 1000 feeding sharks, Guy enters in seven gates mode, but at the same time Kisame fuses with Samehada and enter in his Kisamehada form and they continue their battle from here.

    Might Guy (Seven Gates) Vs Kisame (Kisamehada form)
    Battlefield: Turtle Island (same place and moment where the original fight happened)
    Distance, Mindset and Knowledge: The same ones of the original battle.
    Restrictions: Kisame did not absorb Bee's chakra because Samehada didn't defected him and took his chakra.
     
  2. Tyrell4life194 Banned

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    I believe this is a good match-up.

    Now, Kisame will have to create his Water Dome, in order to finish this Match pretty quickly. As we all know, Kisame's Water Dome takes a prep time of only 3 Panels to create. The 1st Panel shows the water flooding an entire area of masses of terrain, which is approximately the size of 5 Mountains. The 2nd Panel shows the water increasing in depth, height, density and overall size. The last Panel shows the water condensing and forming into a Dome, or more specifically, the Water Dome.

    Now, as we all know, while Gai is in his 7th Gate, he has the ability of repelling the water with just his green chakras. However, it's debatable whether Gai can actually repel the water, contained within the Water Dome. More so, it's debatable whether Gai can actually evaporate the water, contained within the Water Dome, with his Morning Peacock. If he attempts to do so, Gai will put himself under extreme danger. As we look into the Manga, the Water Dome is approximately the size of 1 Mountain by height. If he evaporates the water, he will plummet to his death. It's best for him to evaporate the water, contained within the Water Dome from the bottom of the Dome itself.

    It's doubtful that Gai will maintain his speed while contained within the water. However, I haven't seen Samehada enfused Kisame in much action, so it's doubtful that Kisame can severly harm Gai, especially whom is in his 7 Gates.

    Overall? It depends on whether the Water Dome can overall be weakened by Gai, enabling him to use his Taijutsu skills to overwhelm Kisame.
     
  3. LostSelf Forest Sage

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    Waterdome isn't saving Kisame since Gai's gates deflects the water around him, leaving Gai able to follow Kisame and hit him.

    Srsly Gai didn't beat Kisame because Kisame was without Samehada, Gai beat Kisame because he's a bad matchup for him.
     
  4. Tyrell4life194 Banned

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    As I've stated before, it's debatable. The reason why I say this is because we don't know the limit of how much water Gai can repel with his green chakras.

    Meh.
     
  5. Brickhunt Battle Franky 800

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    It was bad match up, but it was a bad match up that Kisame didn't had a weapon, healing and his transformation, even if Samehada couldn't absorb chakra from Guy it could still heal Kisame from damage from afternoon tiger, but that's not the point.

    This Kisamehada we are talking about, if he gets hit by afternoon tiger then he can use his own chakra to heal himself, if Guy is using his chakra to repeal the water, then it's very dangerous for him to go close combat with Kisamehada because he can drain chakra on physical contact, this is a far more dangerous situation than Guy faced originally.
     
  6. Tyrell4life194 Banned

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    Even so, Gai stated that it wasn't green chakra, but rather sweat. More so, iirc, Gai's chakra reserves are so small, he can't perform Ninjutsu.
     
  7. Kind of a big deal People Know Me

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    Kisame fused with Samehada can sense chakra. This very fact decides the match.

    With his sword, Kisame knows that Gai's attack doesn't use chakra, so he won't assume it gets absorbed. So he won't get in the attack's path.

    And thus Gai's single way to hurt Kisame is taken away.
     
  8. LostSelf Forest Sage

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    He can heal. But the thing is that Gai won't be standing up there. He'd keep hiting Kisame in gates, Kisame won't survive because of that.

    That's not his only single way. Gated gai is faster, Water dome won't do a thing to him because like i said, Gai's aura with gates repels water. Gai doesn't need Hirudora to finish Kisame, he can do it with morning peackock evading all Kisame's attacks with ease.
     
  9. Kind of a big deal People Know Me

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    Didn't even mention waterdome, dunno where you got that from.

    Kisame doesn't fall for the same trick because he can sense chakra, and thus he knows it's not getting absorbed. He can go underground. Gai would have absolutely no idea where to attack Kisame, so opening the gates and being super fast goes to waste since he doesn't know what to do with all that speed. And he can only remain in 7 gates mode for a few seconds anyway.

    After that it's an easy kill for Kisame.
     
  10. Tyrell4life194 Banned

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    I've mentioned it.
    .......
    Show me a 100% Manga Scan of Kisame going underground. Kisame can go underwater. Yes. It's doubtful that Kisame can go underground, before Gai manages to land a hit on him. So, I want you to provide me a Manga Scan of Kisame managing to go underground, in order to land a surprise attack on Gai. Please and thank you sir.
    He can maintain the 7 Gates for longer than a few seconds.
    No, it isn't.
     
  11. Kind of a big deal People Know Me

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    Kisame underground? He has doton affinity, and swam through the ground to sneak up on team Gai. Going underground is/should be a casual feat for Kisame.

    Kisame managed to pull off a huge jutsu before Gai could hit him. So going underground when he's even faster than normal should be absolutely no problem.
     
  12. Tyrell4life194 Banned

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    I assume this is a Manga Reference. Thanks for the proof.
    I'm wondering whether or not Gai can sense the vibrations from the ground.
     
  13. Gin Ichimaru Active Member

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  14. Cole Electric Man

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    Even with Samehada, I don't think Kisame can win. Gai has already countered most of Kisame's moves save Water Dome, which is useless considering Gai has been shown to repel water with ease, even in the 6th Gate.

    Gai really is his worst nightmare, bar none.
     
  15. Corax Active Member

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    Water dome isnt useless. At least Gai isnt fast in it as it is on a solid ground+Kisame is a lot faster in the water than on land. I think this jutsu+samehada fusion and regeneration could have helped Kisame a lot. Still it would be a close match without any doubts.
     
  16. Donquixote Doflamingo Master Puppeteer

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    It stays the same for me kisame still will lose, i have no reason to believe Gai cant use more then one (After Noon Tiger) so after two maybe 3 kisame will be done for.
     
  17. Tyrell4life194 Banned

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    3 is pushing it. It's doubtful that Gai will add that much strain to his body. If he does so, all of his Muscle Tendons will be torn to shreads.
     
  18. Donquixote Doflamingo Master Puppeteer

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    Gai said himself its just a punch maybe he can do it in kick version too lol. Also i see no reason why he can't use Morning Peacock in seven gates mode, it should just be more powerful so for me gai wins.
     
  19. Haloman Fair and Balanced

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    Brick, I still contend that the battle would have gone similarly. Guy was going to go 7 gates no matter what, and Kisame was going to either fuse or not fuse with Samehada. It really doesn't matter to me. It becomes debatable whether or not Kisame would fuse and try to water dome and move in close or not, though. Though, it would be useless and just exposing him to point-blank 7 Gated Guy attacks.

    And if he did use the same attack with Samehada, Guy would still be using Afternoon Tiger. We know that AT was enough to finish normal Kisame, so what do you really think Samehada brings to the table? Do you think Samehada has an equal chakra capacity as Kisame? Samehada certainly isn't stronger than Kisame, so at best, he'd be doubling Kisame's chakra reserve. Meaning, he could tank two.

    And like I said before in that Telegrams thread, I don't think Guy was done. I think he could have easily made at least a second AT. The only reason he didn't was because one had already finished the job.

    So, no matter what, I think Guy was going to win that fight. And it really doesn't matter whether Kisame was nerfed or not.
     
  20. LostSelf Forest Sage

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    Was making that clear.

    If he can't dodge, he will. Hirudora is not the only jutsu Gai has, and Gai doesn't have to use it in front of Kisame either.

    Show me a scan of Kisame going underground. It's very OOC of him however, i don't see him escaping 7 gated Gai, and thus, if he can't absorb his chakra or react to him, he's losing.

    And not for a few seconds, he used the gates and started to pursue Kisame, he also started talking with Kisame before they fought, used Morning peacok and Hirudora and still after some time he was talking with Kisame.

    That's a long time.

    It's not an easy kill for Kisame, Gai's still his worst matchup.
     
  21. Goose Feather of Infinity Administrator

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    Debatable if fused Kisame could survive hirudora. In my opinion, the results would be the same, since hirudora is just a bullet of air, rather than chakra so the Samehada wouldn't be able to absorb it. If Kisame manages to survive hirudora and still be able to fight, he should win since the attack puts a massive strain on Gai's body and then he can just blitz Gai and take away all his chakra. Otherwise, hirudora would still immobilize him.
     
  22. LostSelf Forest Sage

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    ^They are asuming Gai WILL use Hirudora at the very beggining of the fight.

    First assumption baseless.

    They are assuming Samehada will tell Kisame that this is not a chakra based attack

    Second assumption very arguable and with no convincing proof.
     
  23. Goose Feather of Infinity Administrator

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    It's likely that Gai would use hirudora to start, or at least very early in the battle. However, I'm pretty sure the Samehada wouldn't tell Kisame hirudora isn't chakra based. It's likely that the sword can sense it, but there's no reason why it would tell Kisame considering it has 'switched owners' and doesn't seem to be able to even communicate with it's user.
     
  24. LostSelf Forest Sage

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    If you see in their fight, Gai attacked Kisame first and was trying to find the scroll, also, Gai needed to take Kisame with him to interrogate him and he couldn't waste time.

    Even Gai said he doesn't show that jutsu to anyone.

    Here is a diferent scenario, with waterdome or not, Gated Gai is pursuing Kisame, repelling the water around him (If waterdome if used, wich is Kisame's biggest advantage along with Charka absorption) and can kill him with punches and kicks or morning peacok.

    He could use Hirudora as a last resort too, or to completely finish him when he's on the floor and is recovering.
     
  25. Turrin 玄武

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    The same exact outcome as what happened in the manga. Fusion form wouldn't help Kisame against noon tiger
     
  26. Kind of a big deal People Know Me

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    Samehada doesn't tell Kisame anything, but when fused (one of the conditions in the match), Kisame can sense it himself. So yeah.

    Like I said, Kisame himself senses that Gai's powers are not chakra based, so he goes underground. Gai has simply no way of knowing where to attack so his gates go to waste since he can't use them indefinately.
     
  27. Hazuki Legend

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    ksame win

    without his samaheda , he still put a great fight against gai who was forced tu use 7 gate and his best move

    look at gai when the fight was finish , he was also knock out because of gate effect

    imagine against kisame with samaheda ,

    swordman like kisame , zabuza etc are much weaker without their sword

    with samaheda i'm sure kisame is much faster and resistant and he would beat gai or most likely gai would be ko because of his gate effect
     
  28. Brickhunt Battle Franky 800

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    Healing and chakra sensory, personally I stick with healing as the main factor that could change the outcome of the battle.

    The main argument I see that is used against Samehada not healing Kisame it's that he can only heal using chakra absorbed from his enemies, something Gai doesn't use in his gated form, personally I think that's is stretching too much, the moment Samehada absorbs chakra it becomes his own (and also Kisame, since their chakra are the same), if he can convert the opponent's chakra into a form usable for Kisame, the why Samehada can't sue Kisame's own chakra to convert him into stamina.

    He is a chakra monster, he should have more than enough chakra to restore his stamina and heal his wounds from afternoon tiger, V2 Lariat fucked Kisame far more than afternoon tiger, if he could recover from that then he surely can recover from afternoon tiger damage with less chakra.

    My point is: If Kisamehada tanks Afternoon Tiger, he's not idiot for falling for it again, he do surely would try to evade another and he can easily counter morning peancock with 1000 feeding sharks, and even if Guy can push water with his chakra or compressed air whatever, there's no way he can repel 5 mountains of water, he could avoid contact with the water but he won't move freely inside the dome, the water dome limits Gai's movements and increases Kisamehada's speed, it is still a factor.
     
  29. Chidori Barrage The Sennin

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    i have no idea what you just said.. But Water Release: A Thousand Feeding Sharks can be countered with Morning Peacock and Daytime tiger.
     
  30. Grimmjowsensei True Hokage

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    We don't know how durable Kisame can get with his fusion. So it is nearly impossible to tell. He might win if he becomes durable enough to tank Afternoon Tiger. But still, Gai in all cases will give him a hard time given Gai is a shitty match up for Kisame as Kisame is for Jinchiruukis.
     
  31. Brickhunt Battle Franky 800

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    What I said is that if Kisamehada tanks the first afternoon tiger, he'll know that it's impossible to absorb it and will evade the second tiger instead of try to absorb it, and if Guy tries to use Morning peacock on Kisamehada, he'll be able to counter it with 1000 feeding sharks.
     
  32. Chidori Barrage The Sennin

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    How can Kisame counter Morning peacock with 1000 feeding sharks?
     
  33. Qhorin Halfhand Strongest Man in All of China

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    Question: Suppose Guy uses as powerful Hirudora as he can. Considering that his gates are still active, can he use a second? What a bout a second weaker attack that is not Hirudora? Basically I am not sure that Kisame should only have Hirudora to worry about. Guy could use Hirudora, and then follow it with another attack as well until he achieves his goal to kill Kisame or knock him unconscious if that is Guy's goal.

    I expect at the end of the fight, Kisame to be dead while Guy is standing but after a little while Guy will be out of commission and in need of medical assistance. So I don't see Kisame's fusion changing the result.
     
  34. Gin Ichimaru Active Member

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    Spoiler:

    X
     
  35. Sferr Active Member

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    If Kisame tries to counter it like that, his 1000 sharks would be destroyed and Kisame will be open for second Morning Peacock :dupe
     
  36. Qhorin Halfhand Strongest Man in All of China

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    This match up is about what happens after the sixth gate and 1000 sharks are used, with Guy in the seventh gate against Kisame. I don't see Guy using Morning peacock with the seventh gate really, unless he really has to. But I don't see why he would have to, and he would use Morning peacock instead of his more powerful attacks. Unless he is unable to, somehow.

    In any case, I doubt Kisame after being hit by one Afternoon Tiger will be very mobile, even if Samehada fusion updates his durability.
     
  37. Gin Ichimaru Active Member

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    And he creates another 1000 sharks

    :dupe
     
  38. Sferr Active Member

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    He won't have time :nod
    And anyway, Gai can go through those sharks like a boss without caring about them while his aura disperses every shark that gets too close to him. :leepose
     
  39. LostSelf Forest Sage

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    Again. Why will Gai use Hirudora with Kisame watching?

    Kisame can't escape Gai. Gated Gai is too fast and Gai can kill him with hits just like Lee was playing volleyball with Gaara. Kisame will eventually die.

    And Kisame hiding from an oponent? Never. Kisame needs some special defense to escape Gai's onslaught and Waterdome won't be of much help.
     
  40. Kind of a big deal People Know Me

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    Why not? He escaped from Naruto when he saw it was too dangerous, didn't he? We all know he fights tactically rather than bloodlusted.

    As for escaping Gai's attacks: Gai isn't sensory in any way, so making sure he can't see you is a good way to do it, like going underground.
     
  41. Qhorin Halfhand Strongest Man in All of China

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    After taking one Afternoon Tiger hit, I don't see Kisame being in a position to be able to escape.
     
  42. MSAL At the King's shrine

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    Yes he can.

    He can use Kuchiyose no jutsu for instance.


    He just prefers and is more adept at taijutsu.
     
  43. Blade94 Banned

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    You are correct Mangekyo Sharingal. Gai usually trains in the art of the "Strong Fist." He rarely relies on Ninjutsu, unless absolutely necessary.
     
  44. Blade94 Banned

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    Can you explain my friend?
     
  45. Tandaradei &#803

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    Q: Why did Gai win in the Manga?
    A: Due to the blue sweat Kisame thought that "afternoon tiger" was a chakra based attack and tried to tank/absorb it.


    Q: Would he try to absorb the attack if he knew that it was not chakra based.
    A: No.


    Q: Does Kisame have chakra sensing abilities?
    A: Yes, in his fused form Kisame/Samehada can sense chakra.


    /thread
     
  46. Sferr Active Member

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    Q: Did he have a way to escape an explosion that huge?
    A: No
     
  47. Kind of a big deal People Know Me

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    A: He had time to do a Great Shark Missile ninjutsu.

    So, logically he would also have the time to use a doton and go underground.

    At the very least, the impact damage would be significantly smaller than taking it head on.
    And at best, Gai will miss completely/have not idea where to shoot at.
     
  48. Sferr Active Member

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    Doubt he would have had time to go doton. And by the way the panels went, he used GSM faster/at the same time as Gai used Hirudora.
     
  49. Tandaradei &#803

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    speed is a terrible argument.

    gaara can stop a super high speed chakra enhanced kage level kick in a split second with his sand...

    ...and kisame is not fast enough to dodge a jutsu that is fired at him from 50 meters away?




    fights in naruto are rarely decided by speed, what counts are chakra and shit.
    and kisame has WAY better feats than gai, who just had the luck of kisame not having his chakra sensing abilites



    gais attack is not an area effect. the tiger actually shrinks a lot while moving and fucuses in a small point.
     
  50. DremolitoX roody-poo

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    It all boils down to whether Kisame can run away from Gai. The answer is no. Anything a fused kisame can do gai can overcome/do better.
     

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