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luffy vs monet and CC

Discussion in 'One Piece Battledome Archive' started by zorokuma, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. zorokuma Active Member

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    wondering what would of happened if CC stayed and helped monet fight Luffy

    same situation with luffy against money except CC stays and helps in the fight.
     
  2. Coruscation Active Member

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    Luffy would probably lose in that instance since it was a somewhat small area and they both have techniques that subvert raw strength to a degree. If they were in a really huge place he could dash far away and use Elephant Gatling.
     
  3. Sentomaru Banned

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    Duct low diff.

    /thread
     
  4. Heretic Active Member

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    Depends how strong Monet is, but I'd say he would lose based on the latest chapter.
     
  5. Jouten Pochama

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    I don't think Luffy would've won in that situation. Monet can trap him in snow and CC can remove the air from there. He would've probably still fallen into that waste chute.

    Now with the knowledge of both abilities though, it might completely different. I don't think he would let himself trap by Monet again
     
  6. Whimsy .

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    No knowledge? Monet traps him/defends Caesar whilst Caesar chokes a bitch.
     
  7. vanhellsing PRAISE THE FALCON

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    the poor chosen one lose this one :zaru
     
  8. Typhon "The Roaring Tide"

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    Monet casually stomps Luffy as she would have won if not for Luffy running away like a little ***** :noworries

    Spoiler:
    Im serious too :maybe
     
  9. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    He could propably win with knowledge and if bloodusted, with high difficulty. They both have hax abilities and Monet is smart.
     
  10. Language of Life Break Time

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    Monet and CC mid difficulty. They have trouble with Luffy because of his obvious physical advantages, but eventually Monet captures him in a layered snow hut and CC voids the hut of oxygen. Since Luffy can't so easily get away, he either loses or falls through the floor. The combined hax is just to much for Luffy, despite the fact that he has far superior combat skills to both of them. Well i suppose we could still see some combat skills from Monet, but nothing to top Luffy.
     
  11. EndlessStrategy The Wandering Tactician

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    How is Caesar supposed to Help Monet in any way here? He can't cut off the oxygen with her around, and if Monet puts Luffy in the dome I'm pretty sure it's too compact for him to mess with that oxygen as well. It's pretty much the same as the first time: Caesar flees because he's useless, and Monet stalemates Luffy.
     
  12. Language of Life Break Time

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    I just disagree with the bolded. No reason she can't leave tiny spaces for him to suck the oxygen out of. Or if it is big enough, lock the both of them in there and caesar can do what he did to luffy in the second fight, just luffy has no where to go but down the duct.
    Caeser is not useless in this fight. He is the weakest physical combatant with the weakest defense. But his offensive hax gave him the win versus Luffy in their first fight, and this scenario he has Monet to help pin Luffy down so he can use that hax.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  13. David an accident

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    I find myself really hating the idea that current Luffy would lose to two low/mid-mid-tiers.

    On the other, he probably would lose to Monet and CC under regular IC conditions.

    Monet can just make several barriers, and in the time it takes for Luffy to break them, CC can sap away his oxygen.
     
  14. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    They are not mid-mid tiers, unless you think M3 are the weakest high tiers?
     
  15. Heretic Active Member

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    I could totally see Caesar sacrificing Monet to get at Luffy.
     
  16. Imagine Unrivaled

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    Monet and CC aren't mid tiers.
     
  17. redhawk35 Member

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  18. redhawk35 Member

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    caesar is weak as eff he hasnt even landed a blow on luffy on the other hand luffy would of easily ko him if monet wasnt there even if monet was der he would still woop der asses
     
  19. Imagine Unrivaled

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    He countered one of Luffy's attacks with a gastent and took multiple blows from him. Monet was able to block against one of his attacks. CC and Monet both have already got the best of Luffy before, they'd do it here too.
     
  20. Raid3r2010 Champion Of The OP 5th TourneY

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    Monet and CC most likely. :geg
     
  21. DoflaMihawk Blind Bandit

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    I can't imagine Luffy winning, since he had a good deal of trouble with both of them individually.
     
  22. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    Bloodlusted Luffy with knowledge wins, Red Hawk should one-shot both of them and definately Caesar.
     
  23. zorokuma Active Member

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    who is that guy in your sig? and yea Im thinking the same thing. was wondering why CC didnt just stay and finish luffy off with monet. though he would of probably just ended up goin into the garbage anyway.
     
  24. blueframe01 Active Member

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    CC is a non factor for a blood-lusted Luffy. If he starts the fight being blood-lusted, I just can't see him lose this.
     
  25. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    Luffy would lose. He can't break out of monet's shell before CC chokes him.
     
  26. blueframe01 Active Member

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    An elephant Gatling would turn blow both Monet's hut & CC into smithereens. heck, it'll probably severely hurt Monet if she gets caught in it.
     
  27. David an accident

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    This could imply a number of things. And I personally think the M3 are high-mid tier. What do you think, and what are you implying?

    I think a serious Zoro would beat CC with low/mid difficulty, and Monet with mid-difficulty at most, though that we'll have to see.

    And so what tier do you think CC and Monet are?
     
  28. Imagine Unrivaled

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    CC and Monet are high tiers. Mid tiers aren't able to counter a attack from G2 Luffy and take multiple pacifista one shotting attacks from him.
     
  29. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    It seems David just uses different tier system than most people here.
     
  30. Nova Member

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    Luffy just need to be serious to beat both of them. If he is not bloodlusted or serious he loses.
     
  31. David an accident

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    Read the next chapter, and remember it was made apparent that Monet is above CC.

    Even if that's true, there are many cases where the majority is wrong.
     
  32. blueframe01 Active Member

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    Spoiler:
    Seems like Monet ended up being far weaker than most predicted :tomaflirt

    Based on the latest chapter, Luffy beats them in Mid difficulty at most.
     
  33. MakeEmum ...cause 7 annihilated 9

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    No, CC took multiple hits from Luffy that would decimate a Pacifista,

    "Daishinkan"(Great Dragon Movement), the move Zoro used to cut Monet was a Kendo downward cut, the most powerful type of strike you can do with as a swordsman, it wasn't some weak attack, it was probably >= Shishisonson and maybe one of his most powerful attacks in "base"
     
  34. David an accident

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    My point is that he is leagues and leagues above Monet.

    Enough a tier above her to frighten her into near defeat without even hurting her, by sheer intent alone.

    So yea, I was right. Monet's not a high tier. And CC's below her.
     
  35. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    Monet is strong, she was presented as stronger than Robin and Tashigi (though I don`t like that Robin does not have Haki and Tashigi learned it).

    Serious Luffy destroys them still.
     
  36. Coruscation Active Member

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    Monet is still a high tier but clearly everything that was "impressive" about her in relation to Luffy was just fake, shitty hype. Not half-assed Luffy KOs her with one punch and moves on to destroying Caesar
     
  37. Whimsy .

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    This.

    Really, really disappointing that it's the case.
     
  38. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    I do not think that Monet being a bit above Robin and Tashigi and not on M3 level is disappointing that much. It was obvious to me from the moment she admitted that Luffy is stronger and she has no chance in normal one on one fight. Did anyone doubt that Red Hawk would destroy her? Zoro's attack was also one of his stronger.

    What is disappointing is that Tashigi has Haki and Robin doesn`t, hopefully only a matter of time.

    I still have hope that Law will take Monet into his crew as Heart Pirates equivalent of Robin.
     
  39. tupadre97 Active Member

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    Luffy still wins.
     
  40. Opaste Member

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    It was unfortunate that she in the end turned out to be much weaker than many were hoping for, but I don't think her somewhat impressive showings against Luffy were just hype. Not completely anyway.

    Her little scuffle against Luffy quite reminded me of Luffy's fight against Mr3 back in Little Garden. Back then Luffy obviously completely outclassed Mr3, but Mr3's ability to very quickly cover his opponent in extremely durable wax was still troublesome. Luffy certainly had the the speed necessary to be able to dodge the Doru Doru abilities, but as soon as his concentration faltered but for a moment, Mr3 was able to tag him - and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that even the very strong may sometimes suffer from such moment's loss of focus (though I seem to recall you once mentioning that very same fight between Luffy and Mr3 as an example of a fight where the opponent never should have been able to tag Luffy at all, so I'd hazard a guess that you won't be agreeing with me :p)

    But the point is, Monet managing to trap Luffy in her Snowdomes was clearly something similar - Luffy's attention faltered for just a tiny moment, and Monet managed to trap him. Then she appeared out of a wall and tried to hug him, which I don't think Luffy even registered as an attack, and even if he did, the inside of the snowdome was too cramped to really dodge without just punching her in the face and taking her down.

    Those domes pop into existence extremely fast, and seem to actually be much faster than herself or any of her actual attacks (not to mention they are massive domes which basically seem to grow out of her hands directly above you, there really not that much room to dodge...) Again, Luffy's incredible speed is still more than fast enough to be able to dodge them, when he isn't focusing on something else (like someone else's attacks). Then again, even if Luffy gets trapped, he can simply smash the barriers, surely he has powerful enough attacks in his arsenal.

    Of course Luffy will win this. The only question is at what difficulty. And considering that Monet can't take a hit, she will go down fast. The best she can really do here is try to keep her distance and by some time by assisting CC, but that's really not going to be enough. Luffy will quickly end them both.
     
  41. Coruscation Active Member

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    Except they were. All those explanations are meaningless because she only did anything to Luffy because Luffy was half-assing and not doing anything seriously to stop her, or in other words, it was fake hype. As fake as fodder tying him up with ropes. We saw what happened when Zoro actually fought as if he were serious. She was complete fodder. Luffy is just as strong as Zoro. Consequently, she is complete fodder to Luffy who isn't dicking around.
     
  42. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    I think using phrase "total fodder" is a bit too much, as Zoro was obviously using one of his stronger moves and that fear aura of his (likely Haki based) which was felt by Kaku back in Ennies Lobby.

    Monet is likely a bit stronger than current Robin. She is strong, Zoro and Luffy are just monsters.
     
  43. EndlessStrategy The Wandering Tactician

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    Yes, that's why he said she was only fodder when Zoro was going fairly well out. If Zoro makes a serious effort to destroy her, she can't even fight back. Luffy is probably stronger and definitely no weaker than Zoro, and he has COC Haki, which is likely what Zoro used to paralyse Monet. This duo doesn't stand a chance.
     
  44. Opaste Member

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    Sure, Luffy certainly can end her in one hit when he wants to, I have no doubt about that. I was mainly arguing that the defensive abilities she showed against Luffy (that being the Snow-barriers), where in fact quite impressive (at least compared to her decidedly less impressive other fighting abilities). Of course if Luffy had used the same level of speed that he used to dodge Caesar's explosions from point blank range, he could have surely slipped out before the dome was completely formed, but the fact that he would have needed to use such great speed I find to be quite impressive feat for Monet's barriers.

    Frankly, the only reason I even commented on this fight, is because after the last chapter and Monet's quite sad showing against Zoro, many people have come to the conclusion that Monet is simply completely shit, which I don't think is a fair assessment. She is probably a mid trio-level fighter, with some really useful abilities (anyone without the speed necessary to dodge her Snowdomes or capability to break out of them is basically fucked against her).

    But yeah, we both agree she has zero chance against Luffy.
     
  45. Coruscation Active Member

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    So why were the oh-so-amazing snow walls never used once against the Straw Hats, Tashigi or Zoro, besides blocking a doorway? That makes no sense whatsoever either. According to this logic she could just have trapped Zoro too. Oh sure, he could cut them down, but it would buy her time if they have such godly speed. You say she's a mid trio level fighter but mid trio level fighters don't force Luffy to use his maximum speed just to get away from their moves. Mid trio level fighters also don't track G2 and randomly have a move that they can make faster than a Jet Gatling. But Oda had Monet do that. And then revealed that she is fodder to Zoro. Hence, the "hype" was completely fake.

    She IS absolute garbage compared to someone like Luffy. Zoro proved that. Which is why Oda's decision to have Monet give Luffy trouble was completely idiotic. It was fake hype. Do you honestly think it's good writing when someone whose basic defensive technique stops a Hardened Jet Gatling goes on to be fodderized by Zoro?
     
  46. Opaste Member

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    The way I see it, there's basically two ways interpret the Monet situation: a) Oda made her scuffle with Luffy inconsistent as hell, and you don't really need that high speed to dodge her barriers (though to clarify, I didn't mean Luffy would have necessarily needed his maximum speed to evade them, just faster speed than he used now), and her barriers can't really block Hardened Jet Gatlings from a serious Luffy, and therefore all her feats from that battle are completely bogus OR b) Her domes are by far her most useful and powerful ability, and are actually quite a bit more impressive than her general level would indicate, so she would have done better against Zoro had she used those to at least by some time, and therefore it was pure PIS or CIS that she neglected to use them.

    Either way it's bad writing really. You simply seem to believe the first interpretation is correct, whereas I'm leaning towards the second one.

    Frankly, the whole time I was reading Monet's fight in the Biscuit Room, I was wondering why someone so seemingly smart fights so stupidly. Even if it turns out that the domes don't appear nearly as fast as they seemed to in the Luffy fight, they are still really durable structures, that she herself can basically effortlessly swim through - it would be in her best interest to simply jam the whole room (and all the hallways if necessary) full of the super-hard snow. They wouldn't hinder herself in the slightest, but everyone else would have to try to break their way through, not to mention she could sneak around the snow barriers unseen. But no, she simply had to try to fight Zoro in close combat (though to be fair, it wouldn't have been very fun to read Zoro just slicing snow barriers to pieces for 2 chapters while Monet keeps replenishing them :p)
     
  47. Coruscation Active Member

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    It just doesn't make any sense for the domes to be so disproportionately strong, though. If it was a case like Mr. 3's wax where it's naturally that hard then OK, but it's not. The domes are only made up of snow. And the density of the snow, which must have been so insanely extreme it's not even fun to think about it to stop a Hardened Jet Gatling, depends completely on how well she can control her DF ability. It's not a case like with say, Caesar, Foxy or Magellan where an ability is simply naturally hax. Snow on the surface isn't a very intimidating Logia and normal snow is easily smashed apart. A snow barrier that stops a H. Jet Gatling must be densely packed beyond belief, and that in turn could only be done by creating an absolutely outrageous amount of snow in the blink of an eye. Maybe you'll say I'm digging too deep into it, but I honestly don't think so because what else would the logic behind the technique be? Walls of SNOW of all things can't just be naturally that strong. Monet even went as far as to say that not many pirates could break that wall or something.

    In comparison it really does make more "sense" that her hype was all fake because, and only because, Luffy was nowhere near using full strength when they clashed. On top of also neglecting to raise a finger against her pretty face, that is. It's not like it would be the first time.
     
  48. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    Hmm.... didn`t that Jet Gatling destroy her wall though? So she could delay mid level attacks from Luffy (his high level attacks seem to be Elephant Gatling and Red Hawk) that were not directed at her. And sorry, there is not much hype in being able to trouble the opponent who does not even raise a hand against you while admitting that he is stronger.. I think that Luffy was confused by her comment that Joker will kill her if she falls and she did not even fully trigger as "enemy" on his radar.

    At the end of the day, Monet was maybe slightly misused, but it is not nearly as bad as Hyouzou. She is nothing more than Mr 5/Miss Valentine or at best Mr 3 of current Saga. Still I hope that this is not the least we see from her, she is one of my favorite post-ts characters.
     
  49. Coruscation Active Member

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    Only after it withstood the initial impact. Caesar was shielded. And please don't tweak descriptions to make it sound better than it was. "Mid-level" attack? That's not what it is. If this is mid-level then G2/Hardening Rifle etc. is low and everything else Luffy has used besides EGG/RH doesn't even register on the scale? That categorization doesn't make any sense. Do you even realize how strong a Hardened Jet Gatling is? Remember how a single, non-G2 Bullet sent Hody flying so hard he exploded hundreds of feet of rock? How one Hardened punch from Smoker opened up a nice wound on Vergo's "Iron Man" head? This was G2, and dozens of punches. Consider that for a moment. Think logically about the relative strength of attacks here. Oda went way, WAY overboard having Monet's wall stop that when she in actuality is absolute fodder to Luffy's level of power. It makes no sense at all.

    The only thing about Monet that was poorly handled was her introduction against Luffy. If you removed that, she's perfectly consistent. Oda wanted her to give a good impression, I get that, but he went ridiculously overboard (like many times before). That one scene is the outlier here.
     
  50. Lord Melkor Active Member

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    You may have a point over me, I may be trying too much to justify stuff while your analisys is fairy thorough. Monet's fruit powers were presented as very good in defense compared to her overall level of power. I also do not think she could use it against Zoro at the end, because of his aura which I agree may be type of COTC Haki.

    Oda was never that accurate in portraying levels of power between characters if one of them is not going all out. For example Miss Sunday could disarm Arabasta arc Zoro (though I think that at that time she was closer to M3, who left her further behind in further arcs, in particular Ennies Lobby).
     

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