Discussion in 'Konoha Training Grounds' started by Daenerys Stormborn, Apr 15, 2011.
??? Match goes til 8p est
What beb said. Of course, we all know that Tobirama is (how did beb put it? Oh, yeah...) too stronk.
For real, though, Tobirama may need to go to 32. He, at least to me, feels like he out classes most characters. He's really good at just being a ninja. Plus, he has speed feats/hype that sit just under the likes of E and 6G Gai.
I won't be at a comp for 16-24 hours.
DLC undersold my Kin/Gin and/or oversold Tobirama.
Gin/Kin beat a fully unrestricted Tobirama at peace summit who knew they were coming and with Tobirama having (most likely) elite guard backup. 26 Tobirama lacks Infinite tag summons, ET, FTG and can only do 2 KBs (something he calls pathetic when he gets revived, suggesting he can do many, many more) while Kin/Gin lacked only their Kyuubi forms (which they may have well lacked at the time of summit attack, as kyuubi is mentioned at the end of the "epic of Ginkaku/Kinkaku, as told by Raikage" saga). Not to mention its stated Kin and Gin can use all the sennin tools, I don't know where "only so and so can use these tools" came from.
I'm not sure if the issue is overrated restricted Tobirama or highly underrated Gin/Kin.
EDIT: Lol, and that's how TLC ruined my life.
Kin/Gin don't have the feats to deal with Tobirama if they had trouble with Tobirama. I sincerely doubt Tobirama used massive AOE at a peace summit (to sign a treaty with the Raikage) as the collateral damage would be insane.
The biggest reason you lost, though, is because you didn't take into account the location. Jugo's orders to blitz (through a boulder) and Kin's orders to react to Tobirama's Suitons with Dotons means Jugo got himself killed in short order. If Jugo was alive I would definitely have voted for you.
They have some crazy and unmatched feats: stalemate with Kyuubi, mortally wounding Tobirama twice (once solo against him, Raikage and their backup elite guard and once with backup when Tobirama had entire konoha leadership as his backup which Tobi stated victory was absolutely impossible), and a few others.
So he let himself get nearly killed to avoid collateral damage? He was signing a peace treaty with another Kage, why would he throw his life away rather than give Raikage a heads up? This doesn't make any sense.
I knew about no LOS but we have Hinata and Juugo is blitzing and firing his chakra cannon from behind cover. For reference, the cannon easily decimated an enormous pillar at Kage summit, more than enough to get through some rock. Also, as Reznor and I discussed, the minor raiton addition isn't really doing much to combat my doton ring on a realistic scale. Juugo should be able to get plenty close enough to get a close range cannon off and if he can't get close enough, he beasted a couple of raikage hits, he can still launch his assault worst case.
Also, Doton counters Suiton.
I appreciate that and, as you can see, I structured me strat such that this would occur.
Thanks for voting, anyway.
They did not stalemate with Kyuubi. They got themselves eaten and could not get out of their own accord: they had to rely on Kyuubi shitting them out (or vomiting, IDK which). I'm actually unsure if they hurt the Nidaime: Tsunade only mentions that the Nidaime was mortally wounded, but not whether it was the Hokage or Raikage (both were at the summit).
And again, featwise the two are terrible. I buy feats>hype.
Kin/Gin where badasses, no doubt. However, they clearly where not on Tobirama's level, or they wouldn't have had to jump, and then mob up on him.
The twenty ninja he had to, not just fight, but also defend the weaker members of his team against, where all elite Kumo bounty hunters. These are dudes who, like Kakuzu, make a living hunting down the most powerful rogue ninja they can find. Even Tobirama would have trouble fighting that many ninja's of that caliber.
You also have to take into account that Tobirama couldn't use any techniques with high collateral damage during either of their encounters, because he wasn't fighting alone. Plus, I am of the mind that his explosive technique can't be used without being an edo. Not because it's a kamikaze technique (that's easily avoided by ET), but because I'm pretty convinced that the technique actually uses the paper scraps that come off an edo when they are damaged. If you X, it's pretty obvious he's pulling those scraps off of himself.
Also, it's not 26 Tobiramas it's 26 1/26-Tobirama's. The dude invented the technique, he's not going to risk stretching himself so thin.
They got eaten and then ate the fox's organs and caused so many problems for two weeks that he had to vomit them. They left with Kyuubi superpowers while the fox was nauseous and regenerating its organs. Calling that a stalemate is generous (to the Kyuubi).
It's pretty well accepted that the interpretation for this is Tobirama. I understand your point, but it would require some real evidence to point to the raikage rather than Tobirama. Tsunade would have said "Nidaime Raikage" if she meant him, only one person she is going to call "Nidaime" and that's Tobirama.
It isn't hype if we are told and shown it happened. GinKin pretty soundly stomp a good bunch of the 1st division and Darui's team. Darui only gets out of it and seals Gin because he lucks out.
I don't see why Sarutobi was so "weak" or Danzou and the rest of Tobirama's team. He had been grooming Saru to be Hokage for over a decade and his team to be his support. Clearly this is one of, if not the single strongest, teams Konoha had to offer. This all ignores when they solo'd a dual Kage peace conference where the Kages had backup anyway.
Kinkaku and Ginkaku (presumably before Kyuubi powers) solo'd the raikage and Tobirama plus their backup.
This is the main point.
EDIT: See what you've done TLC? We've turned the discussion thread into a match thread lol.
What? That makes no sense. I'm going to drop this whole vs discussion, after this post, but that assumption really doesn't make sense.
Gin/Kin where under orders of the Kumo village when they fought the kyubi, as it was an attempt to capture the kyubi for Kumo, which makes it very unlikely that they where criminals at the time. You aren't going to send people who have already stabbed you in the back on that kind of errand.
Gin/Kin almost had to have kyubi their powers at the time of the coup, as the coup itself kind of disqualified them from participating in any official Kumo jobs in the future.
Don't fucking blame me, you were the one who bitched at my vote and started up this whole thing.
? When did I blame you?
Chill out man, I didn't even say what you're mad at me for "saying".
Bro, where has this explosive hostility been coming from lately? You seem more defensive than usual. IRL got you stressed?
I'm sure beb didn't mean anything by it. He's just fucking about.
Or maybe he was talking about someone else all together.
Right on both counts. Talking to Last Centurion and was joking around.
We should have KCL matches go a bit longer.
Like, you need two votes to win or something. The time table just doesn't work well.
It used to work well, but there's been an even more dramatic drop-off in activity here than in the KC at large, so you may be right. I like the idea of needing two votes to win rather than just making the matches run longer.
Heroes of the Leaf:
If you'd like, I will take you on with my Tobi team.
Tobi is a Good Boy
Still waiting for my team to try out from last page
I can play you, Cog.
Edit: Wait, your team is 106 points, not 82. Uhhh
Cog plays to fucking win.
There is no point value in the world of cog
I'll go edit it, I'm retarded in math
Was wondering why it was so epic
Here's a new one
Jiraiya (No SM) - 30
Darui - 24
Shizune - 4
Temari - 12
Dodai - 10
Obito - 2
I quadruple checked to make sure it's 82
Interesting team Cog. I want to test something anyway.
Tobirama - 42
Sanbi Naruto - 36
Kid Kakashi - 4
^Yeah, I'm pretty new at this, but from the looks of it, it's been a while since anyone started using the KC. Who was the last person to become a regular?
I am have started pretty recently myself but not sure if I am the most recent newbie.
Holy cow you have a low post count, is this the only place you post?
I always thought this was a dupe account or something, you really seem like you know what you're talking about.
It is the primary place I post. I do occasionally post else where but a vast majority of my posts have been in KC.
I gotcha, makes sense.
Well, I hope I get to go against you soon
Care to go against my Tobi team?
Saturday, April 19
Cognitios vs Kyuubifan @ Lightning-Cloud Gorge, Long
Tuesday, April 22
Dr. Leonard Church vs KaiserBunny @ Gaara vs Kimimaro Battlefield, Medium
Spoiler: Dr. Leonard Church
Tobi is a Good Boy
Crap tomorrow I'll be on a flight all day.
Lots of time to think about a strat though
@ cognitos I will take you on with this team. Match should be posted after your match with Kyubifan.
Why isn't our match up?
@nfcnorth k, sounds good.
Trialing this new team
will face anyone
@ cognitios same team for you as the one your using against kyuubifan or are you using a different one?
Let me try out this team first, then I'll either go against you with that one, or the one I went against Luffwaffles with.
sure just going to delay the match posting by a bit. I don't mind waiting though.
K, sounds good, you know why Kyuubifan and mine match has yet to post?
Probably just have to be patient.
Put together a team for Sloth's mid tier list.
I will take you on anyone
Rez: Respect that team.
Let's test some new guys out.
Include at least one of these guys on your team and make an 82 point team.
 Waraji & Zori
 Shibi Aburame
 Mangetsu (5/7 Swords)
 Kitsuchi (No Mountain Sandwich)
Spoiler: My team
Don't encourage them, Reznor. I expect better from you. Not all idea's are created equally. IF you're going to be having people run tests, at least widdle it down to valid suggestions. There are characters on that list that don't meet even the most minimum KC standards. Mangetsu is going to be like 100% voter interpretation. No matter what order you give Mangetsu, it can easily be argued that he can't do it, because he has never done ANYTHING.
Testing motherfuckers like Kurenai, and Mangetsu is a waste of time. Plus it sends a bad message to newer players that all ideas are equally valid and worth investing time into, and they're not.
I don't think they are all good adds, but I'd like to see them tried out.
I'd test them out with you Renzor.
I'll think up a team and get back to you
Gai - 36
Darui - 24
Hinata - 6
Shino - 8
Shibi - 6
Waraji & Zori - 1
Rin - 1
Separate names with a comma.