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Kishi Fucked Up The War

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by Eliyua23, May 4, 2012.

  1. Eliyua23 Active Member

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    It took me a long time to admit but this War has been done horribly, this is infact the worse arc since the penis arc in terms of character development, even the fights and the match ups have been lackluster so far but most importantly it feels rushed and it has failed to create any emotional impact.

    What this War Should Have Been About

    1. Naruto's growth as a leader

    2. Younger Generation Surpassing The Old

    3. Naruto Forming Bonds With Characters Across The Shinobi World


    If kishi knew all along that Naruto/Killer B would be involved in the war, why go thru with the bullshit plot of hiding him when the reader knew all along that they would enter, it just looks ridiculous Killer B/Naruto just running around doing thier own thing when Raikage/Tsunade could've sent an organized unit to capture Kabuto and end Edo Tensei.

    Here's How The Events of The War Should've Played Out

    1. Killer B Trains With Naruto

    2. After Training Raikage Tests Naruto's Strength and He Passes

    3. Naruto is Put In Charge Of a Unit of Young Shinobi To Capture Rikudo

    4. This includes Onoki's Granddaughter, Omoi,Karuai,Choujiro,Killer B,Sai

    5. Naruto Gives Awesome Speech To Rally His Troops

    6. Naruto's group encounters Deidara

    7. Sai vs Deidara Art vs Art

    8. Sai and Deidara fight a close battle no bullshit, but Sai eventually wins living up to the hype Danzo gave him gaining new fans

    9. Fodder in Naruto's crew gets raped by Zetsu

    10. Naruto's first time losing people in the War

    11. Break to Team 10 vs Asuma

    12. Darui vs Kakuzu, Gin/Kin stay the same

    13. Naruto group ambushed by Zabuza w Haku and a couple swordsmen of the Mist.

    14. Naruto and crew take a couple out

    15. Naruto leaves while Omoi,Karui,Choujiro stays behind

    16. Choujiro vs Zabuza w Haku

    17. This fight Choujiro shows some awsome shit this is a brutal sword fight to the bitter end, Choujiro wins Kamakaze style stabbing the sword through himself and Zabuza, Choujiro doesn't make it, this is the saddest most emotionally impactful part of the manga it sends grown men to tears.

    18. Naruto Killer B make their way to Gaara & Onoki

    19. Edo Kages enter the fray

    20. Naruto still one shots Muu

    21. Gaara/Onoki still takes on TrollKage , 4th Kazekage

    22. Killer B takes on 3rd Raikage

    23. Naruto moves ahead towards Kabuto's base

    24. Meanwhile Sasuke Takes off his bandages and leaves the base

    25. Sasuke is confronted by Nagato

    26. Naruto is confronted by Itachi

    27. Sasuke is getting his ass handed to him by Nagato in the worse way, Nagato mocks the sharingan as the inferior Doujutsu

    28. Itachi vs Naruto is similar to how it was close Taijutsu exchange, countering each others abilities, talking about Sasuke, then Kabuto exerts full control cutting off Itachi's personality.

    29. Sasuke activates stage 4 Susanoo and eventually activates the Tosuka sword, sealing Nagato similar to what Itachi did

    30. Itachi hits Naruto with Tsukuyomi, Naruto finally works together with Kurama to break it this is an emotional part of the battle.

    31. Itachi activates stage 4 Susanoo and Totsuka sword , Naruto activates BM and starts dodging , Naruto is hit with Totsuka

    32. Clone Feint, Naruto then hits Susanoo with Bjuudama , Itachi is disintegrated.

    33. Naruto then faces Kabuto

    34. EMS Sasuke faces EMS Madara

    35. Tobi faces the 5 Kages

    36. Kabuto tells Naruto How he idolized him and how he influenced him down his current path

    37. Madara mocks Sasuke teaches him about the history of the uchiha VOTE

    38. Tobi's mask is cracked by Raikage and his identity is revealed

    39. Naruto defeats Kabuto with that jutsu and Kabuto flashback, he's converted

    40. Sasuke defeats Madara with a combination of Izanagi/Izanami that surpasses Danzo/Madara's

    41. The five Kages combined with the rest of the alliance defeat Tobi, sad story revealed blah blah blah

    42. aftermath, dealing with the loses , Naruto gives another awesome speech,

    43. The End
     
  2. Nikushimi Savior

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    Tl;dr.

    But your general premise is something I agree with- Kishi rushed the war and it has turned out pretty bad so far. He should've dedicated more time to each fight and concentrated on using the Edo Tensei zombies more intelligently. I feel like we have seen them at their worst and have totally missed seeing their true combat potential.

    He also should have gotten his balls out of his purse and killed some important characters.
     
  3. jNdee~ MangSlayer

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    Too much power up
     
  4. Gabe Murim Grand Master

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    i disagree i like how the war has been so far. i think naruto facing tobi is the best thing they have been represnted as light and darkness for a while. they were meant to fight. plus he was responsible for the kyuubi attack where narutos parents lost his life naruto vs tobi was fated to happen. the kages facing madara is better as well it shows the old power/old leadership madara/shodai against the new power and leadership the kages. and i like itachi vs kabuto old spies of kohona that were used. also why would nagato face sasuke and not naruto, sasuke had no connection to nagato would not have made any sense.
     
  5. Imagine Unrivaled

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    Kishi fucked something up whats new. :giogio I bet Kabuto becomes an ally to Naruto also.
     
  6. narutored23 in konoha killin nin gangster

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    Omg you actually explained almost the exact same thing kishi just did in the war almost 60 something chapters ago only, because naruto wasn't in it like you wanted I don't see the difference, maybe one thing you almost just predicted and might happen for next chapter.

    Overall kishi just did fine in the direction he's going a lot of side character development.
    Garra being a lot stronger, kabuto using his triumph card, all of the edo kages, the young generation passing the older generation and the crow job.
     
  7. Ishi no Ishi 石の意思

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    X
     
  8. jNdee~ MangSlayer

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    :arg that's a totally retarded action if it happens
     
  9. taydev Active Member

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    Ohmygod, this! Especially #2.
     
  10. Doge Everything I say is serious.

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    Fixed.



    Kishi obviously doesn't intend for the alliance to have any issues. This manga is going to become a crappy series in which the hero wins every single time without an issue.
     
  11. tnorbo Active Member

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    heck if the bad guys crushed the good guys when they had the chance instead of playing around, this war would be ten times better.
     
  12. Bloo Shadow Shinobi

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    My main issue is that not a single main character died. I was actually excited when Onoki got shot by the 2nd Mizukage, not because I dislike Onoki, but just because it would be the first major death.
     
  13. ajinko pirate hunter

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    Edo Madara is the only one posing any threat.
     
  14. Crystaltiger Nuke-Nin

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    What I personally dislike at the war is, that people we haven't seen so much of, were sealed way too early. I was looking forward to see some Kimimaro action or some epic moves of the Kirigakure sword ninjas, but they were quite one-paneled, that's sad. There was more potential in this characters. Facing the fact that Itachi was revived without his illnes would imply that Kimimaro would be fit too and show some badass moves, but there were no such moves until now. And from 7 awesome sword ninjas only one is still alive, the rest was one-paneled...
     
  15. Rios Active Member

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    You gotta learn to appreciate the badness and just laugh it off.
     
  16. vinnycool sannin sage of the retards

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    i would of enjoyed the manga if it turned out as in op
     
  17. Girl I don't care Active Member

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    Fuck off Madara shits on all your younger generations and I'm loving it.
     
  18. Mantux31 Niekas nesupranta ka rasau cia

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    Kabuto has something up his sleeve with being so mysterious n shit
    IMO he's gonna betray Tobi in the midst of the war, but Tobi knew that Kabuto would betray him and does something accordingly, but then Kabuto knew that tobi knew that kabuto will betray him, so he made a plan, but then tobi would shock everyone by knowing that kabuto knew that tobi knew that kabuto knew that tobi knew that kabuto is going to betray him and destroys the world while naruto is facing sasuke.
     
  19. Kusa Well-Known Member

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    An important character has to die and Sasuke needs to show his real power,then the war is going to be fine.
     
  20. Prince Vegeta What's the topic of discussion

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    :oh Lmfao

    -----
     
  21. fullmetaljuzz New Member

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    While it isn't perfect, it could have been worse and definitely isn't screwed up, I mean the war against Aizen in Bleach was the effed up one. Some battles were interesting but it was an endless stream of fights and Aizen soloing with hardly any plot movement.
     
  22. Melodie ̣

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    So you're asking for the war to be ridiculously predictable?
     
  23. bloodplzkthxlol .

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    tobi started it, what do you expect? he's a failure through and through both as a villain and a character overall.
     
  24. Viper █▬█ █ ▄█▀ ▄█▀ ▄█▀

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    This war has all become about Madara.:giogio
     
  25. Whirlpool Triumvir

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    I agree with everything, except Naruto should kill Tobi. Tobi was the prolem for everything in Narutos life afterall, and we wouldn't see the whole bijuu brofist bla bla rikudo-sennin bla bla
     
  26. Chuck &#32

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    disappointed also with the lack of any major deaths on the Alliance's side, it's about time Onoki, Bee, Gai and Sakura :)maybe) died



    :rofl
    :LOS



    dammit, you pointed it out first :(



    this can be interpreted as a good thing :amuse
     
  27. Namikaze Naruto Sennin

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    There were about roughly 40000 shinobi who have died for this war alone, and yet people here is still craving for another death :notrust

    Two death can make a people like Iruka, in fact shinobi's world is losing almost half of its population, which is bold.

    However, I agree to some extent that Kishi is rushing this arc, and to be honest I don't know why'd he do that considering that many people guess this arc is the last, or second last arc at least.
     
  28. Saturday Hello, Wherever You Are

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    I think it cold of been done better. Some parts had me hooked up overall I'm disappointed.
     
  29. Ghost Active Member

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    Naruto should've met Zabuza and Haku...
     
  30. Chuck &#32

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    40 000 fodder, it's still not good enough :villa
     
  31. Narutossss Active Member

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    won't lie war's been shit, I happy the current flashback saved me from it.
     
  32. jNdee~ MangSlayer

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    we need to see a fucking kage die
     
  33. BroKage Active Member

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    If Naruto was only as strong as, say, Omoi at this point, that would've worked.

    Unfortunately he's overpowered now and if he had been included in the war earlier the Edos wouldn't have had any chance to show off. For example if he had been there for the Ambush Squad and Seven Swordsmen, those portions would've been over in a chapter and a half at most.

    Anyway, you left some of the most fan-detested parts of the war (Darui/KinGin and Naruto/Muu) the same which makes zero sense if you're trying to improve anything. :giogio

    This. Chojiro dying would be a waste since he's new gen. and the only official Seven Swordsman left.

    Kabuto and Itachi also have zero connection. By your logic that them fighting is ok because they were both spies, then Sasuke and Nagato fighting since they were both avengers who hated Konoha would've been just as fine.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  34. Girl I don't care Active Member

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    The only thing I'm dissapointed about is the seven swordsman.
     
  35. shintebukuro Active Member

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    This arc is a guilty pleasure. It's a gift from the author; non stop fights, with only the most necessary character development built into it (until it gets to the stuff about Naruto himself).

    No one wants to see Naruto get in endless fights anyway. You'll notice throughout the series that the author rarely gives a character more than one fight without giving them a powerup, and the reason for that is because without an increase, they'll just be doing the same shit as before.

    Umm, there was a pretty massive plot point involved there that established Naruto and Killer Bee as stronger than anyone else in the alliance. The 2 Jinchuuriki no longer needed to be protected, because the love they've received has empowered them tremendously.

    Naruto and Bee had to prove the stubborn Raikage wrong.
     
  36. αce Puahah.

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    He planned too much.
    He shouldn't have spotlighted characters that weren't going to get any attention.

    The only thing Neji was good for was being a Zetsu clone.
     
  37. Barioth Active Member

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    The only thing that are the threats are Trolls in the Manga. The war wasn't any special. The number thing I truly dislike is a lack of strategy.


    Lackluster of

    Ambushes -Jump the main camp.
    Deception - Separate the group. Gives lies where are the enemies.
    Use Weather (Rain/Mist/Snow/Drought) Not to be confuse as Weather Busting.
    Communication- Not to be confuse as TnJ or the It couldn't be!
    Use Terrain (Flood/Earthquake/Forrest/Plain) No to be confuse as Mountain Busting.
    MARKSMEN! (Exclude Sasuke Archery :giogio)
    TECHNOLOGY CLASHES! (Don't confuse to new JUTSU)
    FREAKING CALVARY! The height of badass in War. (Granted Closes to calvary is riding on Summoning jutsu)

    All these were fuse together to JUTSU. Ambush because it says so. Deception because it say so. I predict your move in 40 step because I say so. And etc.

    Overall its all right. Nothing to taken seriously or praise upon. 2.5/4 Even I am being generous.

    I have question. Either the Edo are OP/ Shinobi are Suicidal/ or Kage are just stupid. How the hell are you going to loose half of the army in the first day? To me I call stupid army. Even in real life if you loose that many. May as well kiss your ass as General goodbye.

    If you want enjoyable War Anime. Check Legend of Galactic Heroes.

    Edit: In short Sun Tzu says Know your enemy and know yourself and you will win over a hundred battle without peril. And I look at the army size casualty. :giogio
     
  38. Vash the end

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    I understand .
     
  39. Gabe Murim Grand Master

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    itachi himself told kabuto they are very similar both worked for rook and both have an interest in sasuke. kabuto wants to capture him and itachi want to save him. plus he promised anruto eh would stop edo tensei he has a great reason to fight kabuto. people just want things there way and think the author is always wrong.
     
  40. CCV Member

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    In a warfare, where gassing and nukes are allowed and with over half the soldiers being inexperienced - yeah, i can imagine losing half your army in one go.
     
  41. Barioth Active Member

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    Kill a commander > 40,000. Its the basic to military warefare. :zaru
     
  42. Melas Active Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in your scenario, Naruto plays no role in taking down the one who was responsible for his parent's death. I know Naruto is not about revenge, but that seems inappropriate.

    Also, what happens to the Juubi and the rest of the bijuus? What's the resolution for age old conflict between the sons of the RS?

    I might have my issues with a few developments, but I would take the Naruto/Tobi fight and the developments therein over your scenario any day. The RS falshback and its implications for Naruto as the real successor of RS are highly critical and awesome.
     
  43. Barioth Active Member

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    Well if you look at the flashback. Kurama try to kill infant Naruto. So............. some people will :facepalm Naruto and Kurama vs Tobi is like meh.

    About Bijuu realtion Killer Bee's brother wasn't revive so meh again. Other than Gaara's father.

    And one of the worst thing happens was Mangetsu was a master of all seven sword. Any fan of Seven Swordsman of Mist will point that straight out. By the way where are they? :hmm
     
  44. Johnny &#32

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    Simple fact is, the war focused too long on certain things to appease fags who complain about ''off-panelling.''

    Therefore, certain characters got too much time, meaning others got less. The balance was completely skewed.

    Ergo, the war simply felt like one boring-ass battle after the other. There was no sense of simultaneousness. Oh, and Ao randomly updating HQ on the comings and goings of the war is a shoddy replacement.

    That's why Itachi Vs. Nagato was fucking awesome. We saw most of Nagato's/Itachi's trademark techniques, the fight was fast-paced and radical, and it lasted hardly any time.

    Whereas Madara Vs. the Gokage is taking too fucking long and my Suspension of Disbelief as a reader has gone out of the window. Madara using new techniques to tease the Kages is boring shit.

    Highlights:
    Gedo Mazo rampage
    Killer Bee-Ei fight
    Kankuro schooling niggas
    Itachi Vs. Nagato
     
  45. G Felon Active Member

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    It took you this long to figure it out. This war was written horribly there was so much potential but Kishi decided to off panel some highlights and have the good guys always win
     
  46. Melas Active Member

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    Naruto has converted Kurama, as such he has dealt effectively with it. Him not confronting Tobi seems unjustified. You might not like the fight, but the most critical information has been and will be raveled in this encounter. As of now, Tobi is the FV, considering Zombiedara is Kabuto's bitch; as such, the hero not encountering him makes little sense to me.

    I was talking about the fate of the bijuus. Will they be imprisoned again in the scenario outlined by the OP?

    I don't really care about the seven swordsman, so no comments there.

    The RS and his descendants are the crux of this story as well as the Juubi and subsequently the bijuus. I am reasonably satisfied with how their stories have been handled, ass-pulls notwithstanding. The rest is peripheral and essentially trivial to me.
     
  47. Saunion Active Member

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    Terrible fights aside the point is these deaths are completely pointless because they're unnamed characters dying off screen, so basically there's zero emotional investment from the readers. It's terribly done because it feels completely abstract and even a bit flippant, "oh by the way forty thousand people died" just casually dropped after a bunch of chapters where the Alliance had minimum trouble fighting against their opponents.

    It completely defeats the point Kishimoto apparently tried to make about the horrors of war earlier on with the characters of Itachi or Nagato, because it doesn't show the reality of war and how humans react to it. That's not even touching the extremely unfortunate implications of what the message ends up being, basically war is ok and even positive as long as you fight and kill really bad persons/inhuman monsters. But of course I doubt Kishimoto even thought about it. That's the guy who thinks Itachi is a hero after all.
     
  48. Eliyua23 Active Member

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    @Arcystus

    Naruto wouldn't be fighting any of the Edos except Itachi, That's why I had Sai vs Deidara, Choujiro vs Zabuza, ect.


    Kin/Gin were fine and so was Naruto one shotting Muu

    Choujiro is young and it would be shocking an emotionally impactful especially as we know he lacks confidence and wants to become heroic what better way than going out like a badass against Zabuza, he would be a Top 10 most popular character in the manga.


    @ shintebukuro

    Who cares about them wanting to lock up the jinchuriki, that whole plot point was irrelevant because we knew Naruto would enter the war, anyway, wha we want is character development, we want to see Naruto leading his own squad in the war learning what war is all about.



    @ Melas


    Tobi has caused conflict in the lives of many plus it would be symbolic everyone facing Tobi for Naruto sake it would show, Naruto despite being a Jinchuriki has the support of the entire shinobi world.




    The RS flashbacks would occur during his fight with Juubi where the tailed bests see that Naruto is infact, the next Rikudo.

    Kabuto is inspired by Naruto to become the person he is now, even back to the chunnin exams he had a weird fascination for him,it'll be cool to see them link back up


    @ G Felon

    I tried to give kishi the benefit of the doubt
     
  49. Barioth Active Member

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    Like I said, Naruto flashback reveals Kurama was going to kill Naruto to prevent from being sealed again. Naruto being finally be friends with Kurama is ridiculously unbelievable. Kurama tries to kill Naruto when he has the chance without the Seal. All Naruto did was TnJ. Tobi on the other hand shows he just wants to use it for Gedo Mazo. So I don't see the Naruto/Kurama vs Tobi. I see more of Kurama vs Tobi vs Naruto free for all. Granted Kurama and Naruto might take Tobi out first, but then turn one another. But I doubt Kishi will go for this route.

    Sorry if I misread. But since you put it that way look at Previous post on Naruto/Kurama. Naruto TnJ the 2 of the Bijuus. He may aswell say TnJ them for their freedoms.

    I mention it because it goes against the prior statement of Suigetsu.

    If the War is based around Senju vs Uchiha. Then it should be a short war. 2 days passed on the Arc so far. Granted 4th War may be a reminiscent of 1st War with the Alliance. Or as a final wrap up of Naruto. But that doesn't mean others are should be tossed aside as tossed half cut bread. They haven't deliver their half-purpose.

    The OP address Kishimoto made it harder for himself than he had planned.
     
  50. Melas Active Member

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    Sure Tobi has caused conflict for several people, but they are not the protagonist, Naruto is. The presumptive FV not directly facing the hero seems lacking to me.

    Naruto already has the support of the leaders of the rest of the word, as depicted by the faith show by the gokage.

    I am a little confused here. How did the Juubi get resurrected in your scenario? Did Tobi win?

    Why do you even need the entire alliance for Tobi?

    Sure, I have nothing against Kabuto facing Naruto, though not at the expense of him not facing Tobi directly.

    As I asked earlier, what happens to the bijuus? Is Sasuke redeemed without Naruto's intervention?
     

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