1. Miss Akihabara 2017: Preliminary Round: Nominations & Qualifications (inc. Naruto and one piece).
    Is currently being held in the Akihabara district, visit the thread here to find out more.

Kingdom

Discussion in 'Akihabara Library' started by Reznor, Jul 21, 2014.

Who do you want to lead during the first unification war?

  1. Moubu

    21.4%
  2. Kanki

    27.4%
  3. Ousen

    16.7%
  4. Tou

    34.5%
  1. Reznor Administrator Administrator

    Messages:
    25,986
    Likes Received:
    455
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Reputation:
    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here
     
  2. Saishin Hajimemashite

    Messages:
    12,702
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Reputation:
    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

    KINGDOM

    X

    Story and Art by: Yasuhisa Hara

    Genre: Historic/Action/War

    Published by: Shueisha in 2006 (on going)

    Magazine: Weekly Young Jump

    Volumes: on going

    X

    Excellent manga with a historical set,the story is thrilling and the characters are well defined.The drawings are very good and realistic.
     
  3. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    LOL. I forgot, haha.

    Also Shin said he views Ten as a sister.
     
  4. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Incest da besto anyway. :lmao
     
  5. Ichigo Ignis Fatuus

    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    Yeah, but Ten sees him like something more. Weird dynamic there.
     
  6. Dream forever flawless Administrator

    Messages:
    47,068
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I've been busy with other things and decided that it would be best for me to wait until I could read a large quantity of chapters at once.

    I read the bit with Kyoukai saying that she wants to have Shin's children. :hurr

    So, basically nothing much have happened on the romance front which is good I suppose. I doubt that anything will happen anytime soon there.
     
  7. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Yeah nothing has happened since then on the Shin-romance-field.
     
  8. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    I have to agree with you somewhat.

    I can accept the win, but it left a really bad after taste. Let's see what Ouhon had going for him that fight - they've basically implied that:

    1. Shihaku lacks the basic spear forms that forms the basis of spear use. I guess, experience would - using the basic forms - tailor and individualize spear styles among spear users. It seems Shihaku might not have had any formal training in spear use, but rather created his own technique from his experiences in the battlefield.
    Spoiler:
    X
    X

    This would explain why he lacks in the other forms, but brute strength pierces, as said in the manga "His is a spear that seeks the "power to bring down a foe with only with only a single blow". This is reasonable considering that that would be all he needed to kill the fodder soldiers that he had encountered for most of his life - single pierces. The point is reiterated with the fact that Ei Shi tries to break Ouhon's form using just brute strength. So to encounter a skilled adversary, who he could not kill with just one pierce, he was at a disadvantage as the fight progressed since the individuals defense and counterattacking advantage would eventually best him. Essentially skills that he would not have relied on or honed exclusively killing fodders (STILL NOT FUCKING PROPERLY SET-UP - GAY ASSPULL because they implied this NOW. Had they given us a hint of his lack of training, this would have gone a lot smoother. Again this is just a theory and an understandable one considering his stepfather wanted him dead). This still leaves a bad taste in your mouth if you reread their first fight - poorly done IMO. He had no problem deflecting and dodging Ouhon at his best health.
    Spoiler:

    X
    X
    X
    X
    X


    2. Shihahku fucked up by completely showing Ouhon his style. This allowed Ouhon to notice the simple nature of Shihaku's spear technique (PROPERLY SET-UP).
    3. Point 2 ties in with point 3. Shihaku's lack of desire to live (PROPERLY SET-UP)


    For those who believe Ei Shi was overhyped is a fool. Ei Shi is still all that:

    1. This man at an early age was thrown into hellish conditions time and time again, with the goal of ending him.
    Spoiler:
    X
    X

    2. He absolutely stomped Ouhon in their first enocunter.
    3. He's prolly lacking in formal training, yet bested 3 Fire Dragons - all men who were in Gokei's league in their respective strengths.
    4. Do you know why any of the above was possible? Because as it had already been said, he was a prodigy. Had the circumstances been any different, had he been raised in a different military household, Ouhon would have lost splendidly and resoundingly.

    Ouhon won on a mere technicality (points 1-3) - the odds were in his favour. Had this been Shin, he would have lost easily to Ei Shi as well - irrespective of whether he is using his sword or glaive.

    Now my believe that Ei Shi lacks any formal training is just a theory and I'll explain why:

    First is the parralel between Ousen - Ouhon and Ei Shi - preceding Ei Shi (P. Shi). Both Shi and Ouhon come from military households, so it would be natural to assume that they've had formal training provided for them. We just saw a glimpse of Ousen providing that for Ouhon, but the thing is, Ousen does not want Ouhon dead - P. Shi does. From very early on we've seen Ei Shi being thrown into the harshest battle fronts with the sole goal of killing him. Then it would make sense for Ei Shi's to never having received any training as a youngster. I mean, why would he get training for someone he wishes to drop dead. Then this would add further weight to the several times they've mentioned that Ei Shi polished his skills through his countless exploits - as in, he has learned to wield a spear through experience and self-training. It would also stand to reason that he never had much time to get a grasp of the basics as he was already thrown into the battlefield at an early age, and the earliest age we have on record is that of 15 years.

    Now if Shin wins his fight against Gaimou, then I can't accept this arc at all. Ouhon's win has already left a bad taste in my mouth. If Shin bests Gaimou through the use of mere tactics, but yet allows him to live, then I can give this arc my seal of approval.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
  9. JGr Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    I should of posted in here sooner. Love the series. Only thing that really bothers me is the dumbness of Shin and the pacing. Kingdom so much better in burst. My favorite characters are Kan Ki and Sei.

    As for this fight, it doesn't sit right me. Way too easy/early for Ei Shi to die
     
  10. Lord Genome Spiral King

    Messages:
    17,651
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    kingdom showing its shounen side :(
     
  11. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Regardless of the rest of your argument (which furthermore solidifies your point), this is exactly why I didn't mind Ou Hon's victory. It didn't feel contrived at all to me.
     
  12. Zhen Chan Silver Spoon Coon Hoe

    Messages:
    10,157
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
  13. Stevenh1990 Member

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    If we're going by the translation in this chapter by mangajoy, Ouhon was talking about the involuntary movements of protecting ones body (basically instinct imo).X
    What you're showing were all voluntary movements by Shi.
     
  14. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    I was referring to his spear form/technique.
     
  15. Veggie Knight of Ange

    Messages:
    8,747
    Likes Received:
    530
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Hmm so Ouhon wins, it was a good fight and the explanation given on Shi Haku's weakness made sense. Pretty solid Kingdom chapter, I still don't care about Ouhon. I'm more excited to see Shin's fight.
     
  16. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    Come join us for discussions. It gets pretty lively here at times.
     
  17. Stevenh1990 Member

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    So are you asking why Shi didn't deflect or defend against Ouhon's spear in this chapter?
     
  18. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    No, I wasn't asking.

    Before this chapter, they made Ei Shi's spear technique seem like a type of spear form. They introduced Ouhon as a spear user whose style focuses on accuracy, while Ei Shi's style focus on bringing people down in one blow - more of an emphasis on strength pierces. Now, I figured their pick of spear styles was simply due to personal preferences and experience, and that the reason why Ei Shi was able able to defeat the three Wei Dragons and Ouhon was because he was more skillful. However, we find out in this chapter that that isn't the case. Before this chapter, the 2-3 mentions of Ei Shi honing his skills made it seem like Ei Shi's mastered the spear through his extensive experience in combat. Even though it hasn't been explicitly stated, this chapter, on the other hand, makes it seem like Ei Shi's spear style was born solely off his extensive experience in combat, lacking any connection to formal and basic training. Why is this formal training important? Because, as it says in this chapters, it allows the individual to use different forms to counter an enemy. A different set of techniques appropriate for whatever situation. Since Ei Shi lacked this formal training, his entire style lacks any different forms (defensive, counter attacking, etc) and focuses entirely on strength pierces. A style of spear that is born as a result of his need to one-shot all of the fodders he seems to have been exclusively fighting - making the style less effective against more skilled spear wielders. I honestly do not like that. There was no build or set-up for this, it was just sprung up. All this has done is tarnish the name of Ei Shi, and demolish all the hype that was build up for the 4 Wei Dragons. Had there been a hint of Ei Shi's lack of training, all of this would have been a lot easier to swallow.

    Also, the reason why I made a mention of Ei Shi's first encounter against Ouhon is that he didn't seem like to be lacking any of these forms that Ouhon made a mention of this chapter. It just so coincidently "disappear" during this chapter. It is all about imagery and the way it is represented. The way Ei Shi was first represented greatly pales in comparison to the Ei Shi we saw today. I get the hype trope we've all been accustomed to, but that isn't something we've seen this manga. Almost all individuals have been consistent - except for Ei Shi...
     
  19. Zhen Chan Silver Spoon Coon Hoe

    Messages:
    10,157
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    Moe is usually a blowhard

    But on this one issue he is 100% correct
     
  20. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    That hurts. :cry
     
  21. Stannis Based

    Messages:
    10,212
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    spear forms and rejecting to survive :sag

    most. boring. kingdom. fight. ever. can we switch to gaimou already
     
  22. Roman ABSOLUTE JUSTICE

    Messages:
    15,656
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Chapter goes to prove that Hon is pretty bland when he's on his own :sag
     
  23. Sphyer ~

    Messages:
    14,839
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    The one thing I don't quite understand the most is how Earl Shi couldn't pierce through Ouhon here.

    Spoiler:
    X


    For a guy whose style is all about power, it just seems reallyoff that the one spear strike he gets on Ouhon in his chest area doesn't piece through him but when Ouhon is able to do the same to him, he pierces through Earl Shi here.

    Spoiler:
    X


    Spoiler:
    X


    Also adding onto the fact that Ouhon is not known (at least from my memory) to use such forceful blows in his spear technique, it makes it look even weirder. Like they both traded styles suddenly when they landed their hits on each other.

    I don't mind the fight but this is probably the only thing thing that really bugs me alot from it.
     
  24. Stevenh1990 Member

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    Turnip's scan is out.X
     
  25. Kanki KIG

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    Gonna read through this thread, but two quick things after reading the last:

    1. Someone said Shin beat Rinko easier than Ouhon beat Ei Shi...well forgetting power levels (as Shin/Ouhon are stronger than they were then), Rinko was only defeated due to a distraction. So I disagree with that.

    2. I've spent ages looking at previous chapters at Ei Shi's armor. Ouhon's spear penetrated through the one with a flower symbol on it, so I was trying (in vain) to prove that he wasn't stabbed through the chest.

    Remember when it looked like Kyoukai stabbed Houken?
     
  26. Kanki KIG

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    Now I've read the thread....

    1. First point - had Ouhon not won this fight, I actually would have had it down as epic. I really like the spear-style. Disagree with Boshi that this was boring. If this fight happened in 5 years time (or whenever the big war happens), I would probably call it one of the best fights of the series. Possibly 3rd. The only downside is that it's too early, as others have said.

    2. Where do we rank Ouhon now, then? He can't really be the best spear user in China already?

    3. Likewise, where should we rank Eishi? He's still one of my fave characters, tbh. I feel as if it's major potential wasted.

    4. Please god don't let Shin defeat Gaimou.

    5. If the FD's are all to die in this arc, it would have been so much better if Hara lowered their age by 20 years, and had the FD's be Wei's next generation prodigies.
     
  27. Muk Let's play a game, Ophelia

    Messages:
    27,586
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Spoiler: history spoiler

    from what i remember, qin destroyed wei in a 'previous' war, to the point that wei could not recover their war potential before actually going into conquer mode

    so if this battle is actually the fight where qin destroys all of wei's potential war capacity, i.e. any good/great generals that way may have had are pretty much going to die now, then i can understand hara introducing these FDs in this arc.

    cause in a year or two when qin actually is invading Wei's they must be so weak, it'll be a roll over.

    And that is from a historic point of view. I don't mind Hara introducing these 'legends' and kill them off so Wei actually has not war potential when Qin actually does the true invasion.
     
  28. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    Yea, TF confirms it was self-taught. They should have introduced this tidbit to us a lot sooner. This fight could have been a lot more epic. I mean even Bayou said that Ei Shi's technique was self-taught as if it was common knowledge.

    @KIG - I dunno. I had him 6th on the marital power list. If his technique is self-taught and he lacks some of the other forms, then I'll have to knock him down a place or two.
     
  29. perman07 Per ler mer

    Messages:
    5,477
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    What I find amusing about the latest chapter is how Ousen has on his entire mask gear on while watching his son training...
     
  30. Morglay .

    Messages:
    5,753
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    I thought I was the only person that noticed the strange nature of this. I was looking for differences in the set - in case it was lounge wear. Then I had the revelation it would still be fucking weird.
     
  31. JGr Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    Shouldn't experience trump the basics? Honestly they should of explain the notion of the basics/forms much sooner.
     
  32. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    It's not "just" the basics. It's like you guys think Ou Hon doesn't have any experience at all. Sure his is not comparable to Ei Shi in terms of experience, but it was explained the only reason why Ou Hon one is because he exploited Ei Shi's weakness. I don't understand how that makes it bullshit when he clearly wouldn't have won had he not been a literal genius.
     
  33. perman07 Per ler mer

    Messages:
    5,477
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Battling can be like rock, paper, scissors though. Think there's a boxing saying going something like "Styles decides fights", which refers to a simplification of how styles fare against one another like this one:
    Outboxers>sluggers, inboxers>outboxers, sluggers>inboxers using for instance Ali (outboxer), Frazier (inboxer) and Foreman (slugger) as the examples where Frazier has beaten Ali (though Ali beat him later), Ali beat Foreman, Foreman crushed Frazier. Obviously, individual skill is the most important factor, but when skills are roughly equal, styles begin to matter a lot.

    In this context, a methodical dude like Ouhon could beat an instinctive fighter because his patterns were too obvious. Other people were just not skillful enough to rely on a style-advantage.
     
  34. JGr Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    It is the execution of how Ouhan won that is upseting.
     
  35. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Care to explain?

    I wish the fight would have lasted one more chapter just to lengthen it, but other than it being compacted into one chapter, I didn't see anything wrong with the logic the fight followed.
     
  36. Quuon eh

    Messages:
    2,826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    Really intrigued in how the Shin vs Gaimou battle is going to play out now.

    It's been made clear that Shin is not a master of the glaive, and Gaimou should be much more "complete" than Earl Shi in terms of martial might.

    Shin is going to have to do some crazy shit to win. (If that's his goal.)
     
  37. JGr Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    The basic/forms should of been explained sooner imo. Feels like it came out of no where. Ouhun winning the fight make sense, just could of been handle better.
     
  38. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Yeah I feel like if it had been explained maybe after their first confrontation or at least slightly foreshadowed it would have been better but I don't think what happened was bad though.
     
  39. conorgenov skeptical theory genorator

    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    i noticed this AS SOON as i saw him wearing the armor, "lol ousen wears his armor EVERYWHERE" I like to think he does anyway, even when showering or having sex you will NEVER catch him with his pants literally and figuratively down :maybe
     
  40. Robin Overdrive

    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    these fights by Shin and Ouhon are total shounen BS, sorry guys. Usually when fights like this happen it's a major growth opportunity for the MC's and major supporting char's. An upgrade, another gate opens, an extra tail appears, suddenly you figure out a technique, that sorta thing. None of that happened here. I didn't buy the whole "self-taught" vs "trained" at all, it has never been compared in the series before. The author also hasn't explained much of the spear technique as well as he's versed in the technique of war. I read a lot of sports series, and love how authors explain the dynamics of this and that technique, be that sword play, tennis, boxing or karate. They are usually meticulous with diagrams, anatomy and such, and especially in a major fight like this of "national" level.

    So my conclusion is to use these fire dragons (who we haven't heard of before) as fodder for Shin and Ouhon's hype. So both their fights are cheesy and won cheaply without major upgrades/new battle insight etc. Fame and hype building, hype for China not for us.



    in 99% of the cases it's the other way around. Shin didn't know that Ten was a girl until she joined his unit though.
     
  41. Donquixote Doflamingo Master Puppeteer

    Messages:
    21,006
    Likes Received:
    342
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Reputation:
    Only reason Sasuke beat Deidara was cause Lightning element.

    Only reason Sasuke beat Danzo is because Danzo can't tell how much time left he has on Izanagi without looking at it directly.

    Only reason Sasuke beat Killer bee is because he got healed multiple times in the fight.

    Only reason Naruto beat pain is because hinata and minato helped him.

    ect ect.

    All these are legit reasons as to why X beat Y. Does not make said fights feel any less of a cheese victory or disappointing.(Not to say a hate all the fights i just listed, just examples of stuff that people are not super happy about in those fights)

    Earl Shi not being able to adapt to Ouhons style of fighting is a load of shit also i must say.
     
  42. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    Not really, but if you see it that way, so be it.
     
  43. Kanki KIG

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    If......BIG IF.....Shin does not beat Gaimou, then I will agree to this being a reasonably well written arc.

    Hara is making me live off the edge :D:

    If me manages to make me realise that Eishi is not dead, and proves it by showing the panels that were shown today were not straight through his chest (take a look Moe!), then I will bow down to his eternal glory.
     
  44. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    You're just mad that you were wrong. :D:

    If Shin does beat Gai Mou I will be pissed though.
     
  45. Robin Overdrive

    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    you're right that would save it big time and we're all freaking out for nothing here.
     
  46. Kanki KIG

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Reputation:
    I should also add that if this is the case, then Eishi will enter my top 5 characters. I love that dude.

    don't care enough to edit!
     
  47. GIORNO Banned

    Messages:
    13,603
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reputation:
    You know what would be GOAT.

    If it didn't kill him and I was right about him just sustaining a serious injury and then they fight in the Wei unification arc where Ei Shi gets char dev. :33

    I'm on board for that.

    Ou Hon's win + a future opponent. :LOS

    Or Ei Shi injures Ou Hon and they "tie" + a future opponent.
     
  48. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    X
    X

    I'm sorry, but it looks like Ouhon did not miss. Damn you for giving me hope.
     
  49. Robin Overdrive

    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
  50. Moe Active Member

    Messages:
    5,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Reputation:
    I know. I actually really enjoyed Ei Shi as a characters, and his role in this arc.
     

Share This Page