1. The NF rules of conduct have been updated in response to the Xenforo upgrade. Please review them here.
  2. Please discuss and vote on the fate of the reputation system here.
  3. The forum medals contest is being extended for another month. Check this thread for more information.

Juubi's Eye

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives 2' started by MovingFlash415, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    So, the Juubi's eye has the ripple pattern of the Rinnegan, and the tomoe of the Sharingan, both overlapping...

    Spoiler:
    X


    For the longest time I thought it was what Juubi's eye looked like when the creature was alive, and perhaps it did...

    But then this came to mind...

    Spoiler: Naruto 501 page 08
    X


    When Madara stared into Kyuubi's eyes, briefly the bijuu's eyes reflected the Sharingan, then turned into a pupil neither the Sharingan nor its own normal slitted pupil appearance. But for that split second, we saw the Sharingan...

    Perhaps the above-most picture, that of Juubi with "ShaRinnegan", is one of those instances, where Rikudou Sennin is casting a genjutsu of some sort on the beast. And briefly, during that moment, the Rinnegan ripple pattern is featured in its eye.

    So IF THAT WERE TRUE, then that would mean that the Juubi's normal eye might be a Sharingan.

    Would that mean that somehow, Rikudou Sennin locked the malice of the Juubi into the ancestor that inherited the doujutsu? In other words, the "hatred of the Uchiha clan" that Madara said Sasuke inherited is, in fact, a parting gift of Rikudou Sennin that came from Juubi's malice itself?


    Thoughts?
     
  2. Nimander I has it

    Messages:
    9,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This is very similar to some theories that have been proposed in the past, but you've managed to elaborate on it more.

    So honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was the case.
     
  3. Amrun Doesn't want a Custom Title

    Messages:
    11,862
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This is totally plausible.

    I'm not sure why it never occurred to me.

    Good job, wifey. :hmm
     
  4. MinatoEMS Super Sayian Jinchuuriki

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    dude i agree 100% it makes sense because, lets look at it, it makes the most sense. we have also seen people inherit characteristics of the bijuu within a jinchuuriki parent, naruto's whiskers. Yes people he was born with them before he had the kyuubi in him. so it only makes sense the characteristics from the juubi could of been born to the eldest son. major rep to you ma'am.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  5. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    You just totally elaborated on the "somehow" part of my theory and rounded it out beautifully! Of course - that makes total sense!!! As a jinchuuriki himself, Rikudou Sennin might pass on certain characteristics to his children that came from his bijuu, in this case its malice and eventual eye appearance (the latter as a recessive gene since the first son inherited Rikudou's eyes instead - later the recessive gene might have been expressed as a Sharingan and the Uchiha clan began around that doujutsu). Just like how Kushina passed on Kyuubi's whiskers to Naruto... Thank you, and reps to you too, sir.

    (Oh by the way, I'm a girl. :) Like wifey said.)
     
  6. MinatoEMS Super Sayian Jinchuuriki

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    My apologies ma'am :)
     
  7. Winchester Gospel Taking a Break Advisor

    Messages:
    6,014
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ya, this has been mentioned a lot before. I prefer this theory, as it explains why the Sharingan can naturally control the tailed beasts while the Rinnegan can not.
     
  8. (510)THIZZ THE PUPPET MASTER/SNAKE SAGE

    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Damn! never thought of that, nice one.
     
  9. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hmm, I didn't think of that before... :hmm I just assumed that Uchiha could do it because the malice they inherited from the bijuu would become deadlier if honed by a human's disposition. Especially if the clan's been inbreeding for so long that the trait becomes dominantly expressed. :hehee

    But that's not really fair to not take historical circumstances into account too... :notrust Anyone would resent being called someone else's dogs... :nod

    smile-big No worries!
     
  10. UltimateDeadpool Steam Danger Tyrant

    Messages:
    17,127
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    48
    We also saw the Sharinnegan in Madara's Moon Eye plan, where he uses the Juubi's eye to cast the genjutsu on the world after becoming it's host, and we saw the Sharinnegan again in this chapter twice. It's no coincidence, the Sharinnegan is real.

    I do agree about Rikudou cursing the Uchiha with the Juubi's hatred, even if it was inadvertent.
     
  11. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hmm ...but the thing that makes me wonder is, would Madara obtain an illusion another way? What if he used his Sharingan to cast a genjutsu on the Rinnegan eyes? Kind of a reverse technique? Sort of like what he did with Kyuubi... And he would just need to become Juubi's Jinchuuriki to amass that bulk of spiritual power.

    Spoiler:
    X


    Madara never said he would be casting an illusion on Juubi's eye. He said he would be making himself its jinchuuriki to use its powers to enhance the strength of his own eyes. I think he plans to use Nagato's Rinnegan eyes somehow to aid his own eyes in casting the actual illusion.
     
  12. UltimateDeadpool Steam Danger Tyrant

    Messages:
    17,127
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I'm not sure what you're saying, but I assume it's too elaborate.
     
  13. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Sorry, I added this in a second ago to my other post:

    Spoiler:
    X


    Madara never said he would be casting an illusion on Juubi's eye. He said he would be making himself its jinchuuriki to use its powers to enhance the strength of his own eyes. I think he plans to use Nagato's Rinnegan eyes somehow to aid his own eyes in casting the actual illusion.
     
  14. aiyanah buttplug and chill

    Messages:
    19,961
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It depends on when RS's sons were born. If it was after he sealed Juubi then it is plausible that the older son inherited the Juubi's hatred.
     
  15. IpHr0z3nI Active Member

    Messages:
    14,832
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Good theory prior to this chapter.

    X

    But we see the Jubi again, this time minus Rikudo Sannin, and it still has the same eyes.
     
  16. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

    Messages:
    15,464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I dont think the 'Sharrinegan' we see on the Juubi is the result of any genjutsu. That was his eye. Rikudo sealed the beast and gained retarded power levels along with the doujutsu. He then had sons who were blessed with an equal portion of those powers.

    I believe the tomoe represent the evil & malice Juubi held and when Rikudo became a Jinchuuriki the tomoe became suppressed due to Rikudo's good nature. The older son was, in a sense, cursed by the evil held deep within the the magic eyes and would later submit to that power and awaken the tomoe.
     
  17. Sniffers Ninja dogs ftw!

    Messages:
    8,739
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This.

    The theory has become unlikely at this point. Though to be honest I never thought it was likely. Such a flashback picture wouldn't show such a momentary thing.
     
  18. auem always a wind behind your back

    Messages:
    4,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    very much popular theory,many times stated previously...
    even after this chapter it is very much possible that jubi's eye was the original sharingan..
    we just see jubi sitting here,it could be rikodu looking at him/he is sealed inside rikodu already.....the image prove nothing..
     
  19. Nic .

    Messages:
    65,303
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It's really hard to know at this point although we do know that Rikudou had the shin'nregan himself and I'm willing to bet that was a product of becoming the juubi's jin. One thing that seems clear though is that he had the rin'negan before becoming the juubi's jin.
     
  20. MinatoEMS Super Sayian Jinchuuriki

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    thats the same picture we first saw of the juubi when RS was standing in front of him, all they did was minus out RS. that doesn't mean that the juubi had both those eyes without RS there.

    And for sake of argument, say the juubi did have those eyes, that would mean the only way for the juubi to have the rinnegan with his eyes is if the juubi was originally created by RS himself too, or the juubi used to be human before morphing some how. otherwise theres no explanation that i can think of
     
  21. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    why does everyone keep assuming that juubi's eye is some rinnegan/sharingan fusion???

    b/c of the rings??

    what does sharingan look like- a pupil with a single thin detached iris holding 3 tomoe.

    so add two more individual thin separate irisis each holding their own 3 tomoe and what do you have?

    triple sharingan-or EXACTLY WHAT JUUBI'S EYE LOOKS LIKE!!!!

    RS HAS NEVER BEEN SHOWN W/TOMOES,UNTIL HE IS ,STOP ASSUMING HE OR JUUBI HAVE SOME FUSION EYE!

    nagato is the so-called third sage does he have tomoe?no on ly the rinnegan

    madara is the so called 2nd sage does he have rinnegan? no cause he WAS BORN AN UCHIHA already posseing the sharingan, IF HE IS THE 2ND SAGE why doesn he have he fusion eye
     
  22. MinatoEMS Super Sayian Jinchuuriki

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    he calls himself a sage cause he has both dna of the brothers as well as poession of the sharigang and rinnegan
     
  23. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    not exactly,he has sharingan(uchiha,elder bro bloodline)and apperntly somethng of senju(KG?,"body power"?,younger bro bloodline)

    aas of yet the only way he "possess" rinnegan is if he's holding nagato's eyes in his hand.

    and i thought his goal was to realize the true/full power of SHARINGAN. so does that mean that the ultimate form of sharingan is rinnegan?

    cause if so thst should finally prove rinnegan>sharingan,MS,EMS debate
     
  24. k2grey Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I'd like to point out that the Sage has not been depicted with the Sharinnegan. Rather, he's been depicted with a Rinnegan that has SIX tomoes on it (not 9). He is missing the third circle with 3 tomoes on it in the shot that has him holding one flame in each hand and the panel below that with a humongous symbol on it only has 6 tomoes.

    Juubi - Sharingan with 3 tomoes
    +
    Rikudou Sennin - Rinnegan + yin-yang symbol (Byakugan?) + 6 tomoes
    =
    Sharinnegan?

    DISCUSS.
     
  25. Shadow050 me wo samaseru...

    Messages:
    6,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    i said before...

    when doujutsu based genjutsu is used on a animal or beast, the doujutsu is shown in the eye of the victim, apparently.

    when madara claimed he'd do the eternal tsukuyomi, we saw that smae patterned reflected on the moon.

    maybe that pattered was in the juubi's eye because it was being genjutsued by rikudo.

    additionally, maybe this chapter seems to imply that each rikudo can possess different powers (yeah, doesn't make sense to me either, but just play along)

    madara clams to tbe 2nd rikudo yet clealry doesn't seem to have the same powers of the inital rikudo. and nagato's powers seem different from madara's as well.

    maybe the inital rikudo had a cracked out rinnegan with all the powers of the rinnegan, the sharingan and the byakugan in one.
     
  26. k2grey Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    IMO Rinnegan is the dojutsu of the Sage of the Six Paths while Sharingan is the dojutsu of the Juubi. Although Rikudou Sennin was able to split up the Juubi's chakra and blast its body into orbit some of the Juubi's power, which had passed into the Sage, was also passed down to his inheritors, the Uchiha clan. Experiences like emotional trauma, killing one's close friends, taking the eyes of one's own brother bring you closer to the negative emotions and hatred that make up the existence of the Juubi and bring out the power of the Sharingan. But at the same time, as you come closer and closer to true darkness so do your eyes until one day the light is completely gone.

    Unless of course, you get the EMS but what is the price that is paid for drawing out so much of the Juubi's power?... if its chakra is in the bijuu and its body is in the moon then where is it's soul? That's right, Madara is the Juubi and the reason why the darkness never came again was because he WAS the darkness. Now he's looking to become complete... over decades he manipulated events to create the Rinnegan as it was the only thing that could unseal what it had sealed in the past: his body, Gedo Mazo. He took over Akatsuki to gather his chakra, the tailed beasts back into one source, his body. And when that task is complete, so will the Juubi and he will use Rikudou Sennin's own creation, the moon to project his power over the entire world.

    How else does Madara know so much about Rikudou Sennin? If there was really a tablet in Konoha that could be read with the Sharingan, don't you think some of this knowledge would be public? Instead no one even knows whether the Rikudou Sennin existed or not. But Madara, being the Juubi which had resided in the Sage for so long, knows all about everything that happened in the greatest detail. Including what happened with the Sage's final moments. If he was really on his deathbed and was choosing successors to his will and making the moon and splitting the Juubi with Yin Yang Release do you think he really had the time to go write all about it on a tablet and then have it buried somewhere below a village which didn't even exist yet?
     
  27. Shadow050 me wo samaseru...

    Messages:
    6,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    why would the tailed beast be sooo susepctable to a doujutsu that their true culmination possesses?

    why would none of the beast display ANY eye powers what so ever if the sharingan wasa doujutsu of the juubi?

    to me, these issues make that theory farfetched at best...
     
  28. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    don't be so eager to dismiss his theory,it seems very well thought out,and although it may not be what happens it is very insightful.

    and the 1st paragraph is very much the most likely to the truth example i have heard in quite a while.

    and the very reasons you cite for dismissing it very well be the explanation as to why they are so susceptible to it.

    as in the sharingan is the representation of the power of the complete juubi,if it was in fact passed to the lineage of the elder son(uchiha) it makes sense that the individual lesser pieces of the whole would be susceptible to its power

    and as to none of the bijuu not having any eye powers if for whatever reason that juubis eye was transferred to RS and by proxy his son,then it makes sense that none of the pieces had it,none of the descendants have the level of chakra that any bijuu possess right?

    and both of these points support each other very nicely,think of it as 10 peices of a whole the bijuu splitting the chakra and in kyuubi's case the personality,hate,malice whathave you of the juubi and the sharingan is the 10th piece that eventually becomes manifested/represented in the uchiha clan.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  29. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I love this theory! smile-big

    This one too. :)

    The Juubi was split in parts in every since of the word, in my opinion. Just splitting its body from its chakra and then dividing up the chakras into 9 pieces ...it does not seem a process so neatly done. That the beasts differ in how powerful their chakras are seems evidence of that. I kinda doubt the Kyuubi took on ALL of the Juubi's malice. And it's too much of a clue that an Uchiha (be it Madara or Sasuke) can have malice that contends with that of Kyuubi. And that it overpowers Kyuubi's. Seems like two pieces of a puzzle meant to fit together. Coupled with the existence of the tomoe in Juubi's eye, it seems like it couldn't be a coincidence. :)

    If that were the case, then it seems to me that it could even be the foreshadowing of a failure in Madara's plan. His malice is very powerful, even if he were trying to harvest some of Hashirama's powers. Instead of being able to overcome Juubi's malice, his might synchronize with it when he tries to make himself its jinchuuriki. In which case, Madara himself might transform into the beast and be unable to bring himself back. Then they wouldn't be fighting with an in-control Madara, but rather with an enraged bijuu.

    Hmmm ...now if they're trying to imply that Naruto is going to become Juubi's jinchuuriki eventually, after he loses the Kyuubi, and then truly become the Messiah Rikudou Sennin's successor, then... :notrust

    I didn't read the manga for Naruto to become someone else's reflection. I read it to watch him become his own person, a Hokage unlike any other.
     
  30. Buwafi Sleeping with the opposite sex

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I'm going to have to disagree, the Juubi is all about chakra, no Dojutsu.
    You're implying that now Naruto's descendants will have whiskers as a new bloodline limit thanks to the Kyuubi.
    In the case of Naruto he received features of the Kyuubi probably due to the 9 months he spent in the hosts womb. That is a long enough time for the Kyuubi's chakra to have an influence in his features. But I'm not about to believe that Rikudou's sperm got Juubified and that resulted in one of the most powerful/feared/revered bloodline limits.

    The Rikudou Sennin had both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan as one Dojutsu. His eldest son inherited his eyes, his chakra and his spiritual energy. The Rinnegan half of the Dojutsu seems to have been a very rare occurrence but I believe that only those descendant of the eldest son, the Uchiha's and those distantly related, could possess the Rinnegan half.
     
  31. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    REALLY??? so are you denying at this point that its possible that juubi doesnt have some fusion eye but rather a sharingan with not just one iris ring holding three tomoe but 3 iris rings holding 3 tomoe each?
     
  32. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Hmm. Or is it possible that the Sharingan is the result of some of Rikudou Sennin's own ocular powers, but that its appearance was expressed in the same way that Juubi's eye was? An alteration, but nevertheless a recessive trait that was developed and expressed? Genetics mix and match all the time in parents, don't they? For instance you might have the eye shape of your mother, but the eye color of your father.

    And we really don't know much about how a bijuu affects one's lineage. We know that Naruto inherited characteristics of Kyuubi, whether because he was in Kushina's womb while she housed Kyuubi or whether it was because he himself is a jinchuuriki... But the bijuu affects their hosts and their offsprings in various ways. The only evident person from Mito's and Hashirama's union that we know of is Tsunade ...does her brash temper have any relation to Kyuubi, perhaps? It does resemble Kushina's and Naruto's somewhat. In any case, I fully buy into the hatred being passed down to the Uchiha clan, not just from Rikudou's decision between the brothers but also as a result of the Juubi's own malice. Madara's and Sasuke's malice have too strong a connection with Kyuubi's own malice to overlook that. It seems like they have a special kind of malice, one that Kyuubi acknowledges and is unable to exploit.

    In any case, this is all speculation just for fun. For all we know, our theories might be more elaborate and enjoyable than whatever Kishimoto comes up with. Or some of them might be right. It's half guessing and half for my (our) own amusement. :amuse
     
  33. seventyGTO Emerald Archer

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I think its more likely that just as a sharingan is reflected in the eyes of a beast controlled by the sharingan, and the rinnegan is reflected in the eyes of a beast controlled by the rinnegan, that the sages eye would be reflected in the eye of a beast controlled by the sages eye.
     
  34. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    true howevr the sage has never been shown with tomoe in his eyes,

    he has rings,nagato who also had rinnegan and all of his summons and pain only had rings

    sharingan has 1 ring w/3 tomoe

    juubi's eyes have 3 rings w/3 tomoe each

    so although the ring aspect is similar, rinnegan is shown to have 3-6 rings only

    juubi's eye and sharingan are exactly the same, a pupil with a ringed iris holding 3 tomoe,the only difference being sharingan has one and juubi has 3
     
  35. seventyGTO Emerald Archer

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    X

    zoom in to 400%, looks like tomoe to me.

    j/k, like at that level you can tell the difference between a pen slip and tomoe.
     
  36. Lelouch71 Zero

    Messages:
    19,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Whatever the case I earnestly believe Rikudo had the rinnegan prior to fighting the Juubi. There is no way a normal man could subdue something that would make the Kyuubi seems chuunin level. Rikudo wouldn't also have access to any ninjutsu if he didn't have the rinnegan.
     
  37. Klue 輪廻

    Messages:
    58,241
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Assuming the Sharingan/Rinnegan's root lie with the Juubi, does anyone not find it odd, that not a single one of the 9 Bijuu possess eye powers, but are susceptible instead?

    Assuming the Sharngan/Rinnegan's root lie with Rikudou, does anyone not find it odd, that the Sharingan requires so much blood before it can reach its true potential?
     
  38. MovingFlash415 Chillen' in Haku's mirror

    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Not really. All the bijuu are, are giant balls of chakra. When Rikudou Sennin separated Juubi's chakras, I don't think he meant to include personalities or specialized doujutsu as a trait. Without a human host, they barely have personalities, if the state Sanbi was in when Deidara and Tobi captured him is anything to go by. It seems that contact with humans is what brings those "character" traits and coherence out (LOL: 'Shukaku' means drunk, so in the ichibi tanuki's case I'm not so sure about "coherence" :hehee).

    I just find it to be more evidence of a very unusual link between Sharingan and bijuu. Why is the Uchiha clan so special? Because, as others have noted, the bijuu are just chakra: a free-roaming beast like Sanbi has less control over its powers and less personality than one within its host. Humans can have power over tailed beasts. I think it's because most tailed beasts, with the exception of Kyuubi, don't have strong intent when they're alone.

    Intent and character, like chakra and body, were separated into pieces, I think. And because Rikudou Sennin's will overcame the creature, I think some mix of their heritage appeared in their descendants.

    I think it's interesting how susceptible they are PARTICULARLY around the full moon - when the moon is the original body from which all of them came.

    Once again, not really. Malice requires blood. In my mind, all this - Sharingan's bloody history, Gaara's increased bloodlust under the full moon, Sasuke's dogma, the clan's planned coup and slaughter, the feral state of Hachibi when it attacked Kumo, Madara and Kyuubi's attack on Konoha (on the night of the full moon), Shukaku's bloody nature from within sand - all relates to one very big thing: INSANITY. I think that Juubi demon is the demon of insanity, as well as blood and death. I think that's part of what made it so terrible and part of the real tragedy of Uchiha.

    ^Found the thread I was looking for. copycat123 captured pretty well what I was trying to say about how the moon = malice.

    X
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2010
  39. Kyuubi Ryujin Member

    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Spoiler: Naruto 501 page 08
    X


    I disagree. We clearly see the three tomoe sharingan for a second and then we see a cheap version of Madara's EMS-design. Do you see the three dots on the side, around the pupil? This is EMS-control.

    Your theory also loses it's essence when you say that Rikudo casts a genjutsu on the Juubi. That would mean that the Juubi only had a regular sharingan in the beginning. But why would six further tomoes develop on the ripple pattern?
     
  40. Buwafi Sleeping with the opposite sex

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I'm gonna have to stop you there. It's fine to say the Bijuu can have slight effects on the physical traits of the host, but personality? Please. That's not even logical. Life experiences dictate your personality, not some creature that was sealed within your super great grandfather...

    Let me present you with real evidence. It's not conclusive evidence when you look to point out no clear Sharingan in any of the Rikudou Sennin's pictures. The Sharingan is not passively active like the Rinnegan is and it's safe to assume the Rikudou Sennin would have had no opponent other than the Juubi who would have made him need to use the Sharingan. Which brings me onto the point about the Juubi's eyes. The Rikudou Sennin is facing the Juubi at the time that we see both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan reflected on the Juubi's eyes. We've already seen how the Rinnegan is reflected in the eyes of those that the user is controlling - Pain. The Sharingan has been depicted to having the ability to control the Bijuu and even the Juubi in this case. A logical conclusion would be that the Rikudou Sennin activated the Sharingan to control the Juubi and in that process his own occular powers, both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan were reflected onto the Juubi's eyes.

    Why i oppose this theory strongly is that there has been no indication what so ever, that any of the Bijuu have ocular powers. And the argument against this theory is completely logical and with proof.
     
  41. k2grey Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Juubi having ocular powers doesn't mean the Bijuu have to have them. It can just mean that the Bijuu only have the chakra of the Juubi, while the Uchiha clan has the Sharingan.

    The idea of Rikudou Sennin having the Rinnegan and the Juubi having the Sharingan settles many things, such as:

    1) Why one man would be born with TWO dojutsu out of nowhere (one gift from the heavens is enough)
    2) How Rikudou Sennin was able to overcome the Juubi
    3) Why the Sharingan requires so much blood to activate, and why it is self-sealing
    4) Why possessors of the Sharingan can control the Bijuu
    5) Why Nagato can't control the Bijuu even though he has the Rinnegan
    6) Why the Juubi had that eye in the picture: Rinnegan (Rikudou) genjutsu + Sharingan (Juubi)

    Also, again look at this picture:

    X

    Rikudou with a Rinnegan that has 6 tomoes. Where did the remaining 3 tomoes go?
     
  42. Buwafi Sleeping with the opposite sex

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    1) Because it's not two dojutsu, it's one... The Sharingan and the Rinnegan are two halves of one.
    2, 4, 5) These just support the argument against your idea. Clearly the Rikudou Sennin needed the Sharingan to gain control of the Juubi in the first place
    6) Read the above post

    #3 was simply irrelevant.
     
  43. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    you talk as if you have concrete proof that RS has some fusion eye?

    if you do please post it.

    cause all we've actually seen are

    RS w/rinnegan only in his eyes
    juubi w/ a triple iris sharingan &
    the elder bro w/ swirlygan
     
  44. Hamak Member

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    note that theres 9 tomoes in jubiis eye, maybe it's because of the 9 tailed beasts : )
     
  45. Buwafi Sleeping with the opposite sex

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    It's not concrete but it's certainly not a baseless theory. Let me break it down... again.

    The RS was said to have tamed the Juubi and then made himself it's Jinchuuriki. We've been told that aside from Hashirama only the Sharingan could control the Bijuu, this is most likely due to his unique wood element chakra as Yamato has also displayed the ability to bring the Kyuubi under control. The image we have of the Juubi and the RS together show a fusion of the Rinnegan and the Sharingan projected onto the Juubi's eye. We've also been shown that the Rinnegan AND the Sharingan get projected onto the targets eyes while they are being controlled. In that photo the likely thing that's happening is the RS taking control of the Juubi hence why the Rinnegan is appearing on it's eye. But he needs to have either wood element or the Sharingan to do this. Wood element is something completely unique to Hashirama, even if RS was able to use all forms of chakra this does not include mixtures of those elements to form new ones otherwise Nagato would have displayed that ability. Therefore the only likely conclusion is that the RS had the Sharingan and the Rinnegan as one Dojutsu.

    Counter arguments include:

    - But he hasn't been shown with both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan.
    A: The Sharingan isn't a permanently active Dojutsu on those who are born with it unlike the Rinnegan, which completely explains why the RS has been depicted with the Rinnegan and not a combination of both.

    - Nagato can control people and creatures through the use of chakra rods
    A: This required him to merge with the Gedo Mazo, a process which left his body in ruin for the rest of his life. It is a possibility but it is very unlikely that the RS would resort to such a method and the effectiveness of the chakra rods control technique has been shown to not extent to Bijuu - When Naruto accessed the Kyuubi's chakra while in Sage Mode to counter Nagato's attempt at controlling him.

    While my evidence isn't concrete it's far more sound and lacking of holes than yours. In fact, when all my evidence is put together there are no holes at all, other than it not being canon, and is a highly probable conclusion.
     
  46. sinjin long THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    i see what your saying w/the tomoes being "called up" as RS need them but i still firmly believe that RS had rinnegan only and juubi was not under a genjutsu & did not have a fusion eye but rather a triple iris sharingan.

    we're just gonna have to wait and see.
     
  47. Buwafi Sleeping with the opposite sex

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Well that cool to firmly believe in your opinion. I just thought you were challenging me with some evidence or my lack of evidence.

    The Juubi having the Sharingan is a possibility i just think it doesn't have enough evidence to support it to be even called a theory.
     
  48. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

    Messages:
    15,464
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Juubi has been repeatedly shown with what looks like Sharinnegan. Rikudo has only been shown with rinnegan. To me, the evidence supports that Juubi had Sharrinegan.

    For anyone who doesn't think all doujutsu originate from Juubi, what do you propose Rikudo gained from becoming it's Jinchuuriki? A lot of Chakra and that's it?

    Or does it make more sense that he gained the Godly, yet Demonic, powers of Doujutsu from trapping the beast within himself?
     
  49. UltimateDeadpool Steam Danger Tyrant

    Messages:
    17,127
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Agreed. And Rikudou gave the older son "his" eyes, the Rinnegan, which eventually became the Sharingan. And both are able to read the secret message, why would the Juubi's eye be able to read it if only those with Rikudou's only intended those with eyes to read it?
     
  50. Buwafi Sleeping with the opposite sex

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    There is a logical explanation for all of that... If you'd read my above paragraphs you'll see how it makes sense that the RS has both Dojutsu yet the Juubi has been depicted with both projected onto it's eye.

    Also you need to understand that the Rikudou Sennin saved the world from the Juubi by managing to subdue and then seal it within himself. That is why he's remembered as a savior. His reasons for becoming it's Jinchuuriki were also stated, it was to ensure the worlds safety as simply subduing it was not enough. It was a selfless act with no hidden ulterior motive like gaining a new Dojutsu.

    I've said this before somewhere but the Rinnegan and the Sharingan are very alike and a perfect match were they two parts of one. The Sharingan grants the user great perception of chakra, the ability to watch, learn and imitate jutsu as well as gives access to unique Sharingan techniques. The Rinnegan grants the user access to all chakra element types as well as the 6th path which would be an extremely convenient tool to have in conjunction with the Sharingan. In fact, by having the Rinnegan one of the flaws in the Sharingan is solved - access to all elements of chakra. And vise versa, the Sharingan would allow a Rinnegan user to learn jutsu at a faster rate. Handy when you have the ability to use all jutsu. I don't believe this to be a coincidence but rather a simple truth. They are two halves of the same Dojutsu, the perfect Dojutsu worthy enough of the Rikudou Sennin.
     

Share This Page