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Just how strong was Jiraiya?

Discussion in 'Konoha TV' started by emilm, May 4, 2012.

  1. emilm Member

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    It's highly doubtful that Jiraiya fought Pain with his full strength because

    1) He had to conserve as much chakra as he possibly could because he knew absolutely nothing about Pain, while gathering information about him at the same time. - That's been stated that Jiraiya had to fight very carefully and conserve as much chakra as possible.

    2) Pain or Yahiko + Nagato was his student.


    I don't think we've seen how truly powerful Jiraiya is. I have no doubt that he would have beaten Pain if he knew what he did when he died.

    Now, the main part I'm trying to get at is Itachi and Kisame. Jiraiya seemed so confident in defeating them and was actually pretty casual about it like, "oh, I guess I'll have to kill these guys now" and they actually HAD to run away from Jiraiya. The only way they were able to get away was because of Amaterasu.

    It seemed like he would have been able to defeat both Itachi and Kisame at the same time.

    What do you guys think? How strong do you think Jiraiya really was?
     
  2. Tray Mοderator

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    He is a low-top tier in his own verse
     
  3. Ghost Active Member

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    :giogio :giogio :giogio
     
  4. droidsteel Probably offline

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    Ive always thought he was just below itachi. Umm I do think he was going all out against pain though.

    You might be right about him being able to beat pain with knowledge though, by finding nagato that is. As for the itachi and kisame incident, we know itachi wasn't really going to capture naruto, he just needed an excuse to abandon the mission :amuse
     
  5. Prince Vegeta What's the topic of discussion

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  6. EndersShadow Member

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    Jiraiya saying this was a bluff. Ninjas bluff all the time (ie Kakashi saying he'd have to stop Orochimaru when he was protecting Sasuke during the exam).

    Jiraiya knew the other two were in a very time sensitive situation. The longer they waited, the more Konoha ninjas would come. He knew they'd run if he put his foot down.
     
  7. JiraiyaForever Being Alpha

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    Jiraiya was the sensei of Nagato, Konan, Minato, and Naruto. He was asked to become the Hokage but he declined. Hanzo, Itachi, and Kisame both gave him unconditional respect.

    He was one of the strongest shinobi we've seen in this story, and one of the strongest we'll ever see.

    ~ JF
     
  8. Kanki KIG

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    Jiraiya vs Pain is a tough one to judge. Pain flat out admitted that if Jiraiya had knowledge on his abilities (like Naruto had), he would have won. On the flip side of that, Pain wouldn't have used his strongest jutsu in that location because it would destroy his own village. Also you have to remember that the fight turned once Jiraiya lost his arm, which again came down to the knowledge thing.

    Anyway, Jiraiya is one of the strongest characters in the series, and more importantly he's probably the greatest, all-round shinobi. What I mean by that is that he can do everything. Fight short, mid and long range, infiltrate villages, 'capture' people, spy without anyone knowing, teaching ect.

    I'm not too keen on the whole 'tier' stuff as so many fights depend on circumstance, but there aren't many who are stronger than Jiraiya.
     
  9. Antdawg Member

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    It was stated by Itachi that he would die or both if he fought Jiraiya which is why they tried to distract him when trying to capture Naruto.
     
  10. Nakiami Bounen no Xamdou

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    100% Agree.

    Jiraiya had an amazing Toad Techniques and his last moments was with a smile because he didn't want to kill Yahiko or Nagato as they were his former students.

    The strongest three - Jiraiya-sama, Minato, and Naruto.
     
  11. Chaos Control Active Member

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    I think he was fighting at his fullest strength. Because,

    1. He was prepared for dangerous battle, unlike many other battles where ninja are caught unprepared or at a bad time.

    2. He believed it was his destiny to kill Nagato and save the world. He spent his most of his life waiting for the moment to fulfill the prophecy and I have no doubt he had absolute resolve.
     
  12. shyakugaun Active Member

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    This again :giogio ? Itachi solo's, much less adding tailed beast kisame into the mix :giogio, :lmao
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2012
  13. Harbour I stole all bitches.

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    Weaker than villains like Tobi, Kabuto, Madara and Pain, maybe Hashirama. Plus main characters. Equal with Minato, Orochimaru and Itachi(stone-scissors-paper system). Stronger than everyone else.
     
  14. Owl Banned

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    Jiraiya was pretty strong, but still, he got raped by Pain from ass to mouth. He went all out on Pain during their bout.
     
  15. crisler Active Member

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    the OP is biased isn't it.

    you're saying jiraiya didn't fight at full strength yet ignore the fact that he was defeated by only 3 pains. remember, deva path is the strongest and he never used ST, or CT which was the main skills that destroyed konoha and almost captured naruto.

    the only skill that pain used against jiraiya was summoning and absorbing. he didn't even use machine guy, human realm to steal his soul, ST/CT, or any of those.

    i won't get to the specifics, because that's what pain chose to do, but the point is you can't simply make 'IFs' and say jiraiya could've won. both had handicaps, and the winner was pain.


    aside from that, we definitely know that jiraiya was probably somewhere close to orochimaru. he could be sronger, but that doesn't matter their roughly equals. and we also know he's weaker than minato, because...well because that's basically what he himself said.

    going by how the manga works, he's probably slightly stronger than oro. whether this oro is restricted from ET or not is vague: we just know that he was somewhat close to oro and that seeing as how jiraiya's got the WoF, he's slightly stronger.
     
  16. Minato4Namikaze Member

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    Jiraiya was old, and as you all now that chakra is lower, much lower, he didnt now any of Pains weakness either abilities.. he was fight and in same time finding their skills, there was 3 of them, all linked with different abilities.. even Naruto would have losed if the Kyuubi haven't reacted. So I guess Jiraiya was very strong, and pretty smart, he had to fight and still make a plan what to do next.. if he just new a little bit more, he would have won
     
  17. hitokugutsu

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    Jiraya is just as strong as his other Sannin teammates
     
  18. Minato4Namikaze Member

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    hm I dont think that Tsunade is up to his level, or Orochimaro, I somehow think he was a little bit stronger, but he didn't show it
     
  19. hitokugutsu

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    I always considered them equal, and if Oro vs Jiraya would happen, then I can see Jiraya winning due to WoF or something

    As for Tsunade, she hasn't gone all out yet (anime viewers only thread :LOS). But she is powerful, not to mention in DB she has the stats on par with the other Sannin
     
  20. emilm Member

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    I think Jiraiya is stronger than Tsunade.

    When Jiraiya convinced Tsunade to be the Hokage, he said to her something like, "If you turn your back on Konoha, I will kill you".
     
  21. Hazuki Legend

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    even his base form is stronger than tsunade

    i don't think anyone was aware about his sennin mod at that time

    i agree with op

    we need to understand that kishimoto had to ambushed jiraiya to kill him in a unfair fight

    everyone would have died against pain in that situation , but jiraiya still show an awesom fight , incredible resistance

    we still don't know how strong he is in a normal situation
     
  22. Ghost Active Member

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    Well, he isn't in the top 10.
     
  23. JiraiyaForever Being Alpha

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    well, you're wrong.
     
  24. Ghost Active Member

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    Itachi, Naruto, Minato, Tobi, Kabuto, A, Killer Bee, Nagato, Pain, Madara, Hashirama and Sasuke.

    12 characters who are stronger than Jiraiya.
     
  25. crystalblade13 hokage

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    I think Itachi or Kisame could beat jiraiya solo.

    Its not that the guys weak or anything, but his hype is way to inflated. I think he is around kisame / 7 gated guy level. if not slightly stronger than 7 gated guy and slightly weaker than kisame.
     
  26. crystalblade13 hokage

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    I'd put sandaime raikage, oonoki, all the biju, and by extention yagito nii/ yagura (their perfect hosts), and kisame (IMO) on there as well.
     
  27. emilm Member

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    HAHAHA SASUKE!?!?!?

    Sasuke is so weak. He is so FUCKING weak. I have nothing against Sasuke, but to me, he's not much stronger than Kakashi.


    Huh? Gai could easily beat Kisame, yes sure, he was his counter, but Gai stronger than Jiraiya? Don't think so.

    Kisame would never be able to get out of toad stomach as well
     
  28. crystalblade13 hokage

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    toad stomach gets countered by kisame throwing up a lake, and than using said lake to relentlessly attack it.

    I said jiraiya was stronger than 7 gated guy, but not by much. hirudoa/ asakujaku is a hell of a thing.

    and like you said, kisame only lost to guy because guy was his counter (and kisame lacked samehada).
     
  29. Minatokun New Member

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    I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure he's one of the strongest characters throughout the series, just look at how many people looked up to him as one of the legendary sannin. That title actually meant something in part 1 I guess.
     
  30. JiraiyaForever Being Alpha

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    You're just being a hater, plain and simple.

    You're choosing to ignore Itachi saying if they fought they would both die, and Kisame saying he was out of his league.

    You're choosing to ignore Hanzo giving him clear respect and calling him Legendary after they fought when Jiraiya was 20 years younger.

    You're choosing to ignore Pain, leader of Akatsuki and user of the Rinnegan, saying that if Jiraiya knew his secret he would've won.

    You're choosing to ignore Jiraiya being incredible with sealing jutsus, including sealing the Amaterasu, supressing the kyuubi in Naruto, and flat out sealing the 4 tailed Naruto without harming him.

    You're even choosing to ignore the man has Sage Mode of all things...

    He wasn't fan hyped. He has hype because just about every strong badass in the series has said that Jiraiya is strong as shit!

    Man, you fail :datass

    ~ JF
     
  31. Blue Bomber Active Member

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    Why do people have to bring up the Jiraiya vs Itachi(/Kisame) topic? It never ends well. :giogio

    I swear you are my favorite poster in Konoha TV, you crack me up sometimes. :lmao

    Naruto and Sasuke are two sides of the same coin. You calling Sasuke weak means you consider Naruto just as weak. I hope you're aware of that.
     
  32. crystalblade13 hokage

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    Your being a fanboy. plain and simple. I personally love jiraiya as a character, his death scene made me feal manly man tears.

    However, I'm not gonna sit here and say he's stronger than he really is, just because I like him.

    I dont base characters strength on hype (such that you just did in practically all of your examples), I do it on feats, because at the end of the day, thats really the only thing that is 100 percent accurate.

    I think kisame is stronger because he can counter jiraiya and 85% of the verse with his chakra stealing abilities.

    -snip- about the 3rd raikage, I forgot this was the anime section.

    I think the biju's are stronger because he cant do a damn thing to hurt them and the biju's casually blow up mountains. yagura and yagito nii can become these biju at will.

    onoki is stronger because he can fly, molecuarly nuke, turn things to stone via touch, and throw islands at people.

    Im not being a hater, Im being rational and not letting character hype/ personal bias mess with my interpretation of a characters feats/ power.

    I dont fail.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  33. Kanki KIG

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    Kisame himself flat out atmitted Jiraiya was stronger. Everything else regarding Itachi/Pain/Jiraiya can be debated, but Jiraiya > Kisame is cannon.
     
  34. Chaos Control Active Member

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    That was so part 1.

    Now we know Jiraiya could barely deal with the 4-tailed Naruto while Kisame can take down Killer Bee with ease.
     
  35. Kanki KIG

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    That's ridiculous logic. Kisame is the master at capturing tailed beasts because his style revolves largely around stealing chakra. Yamato can hold down the 4 tails - is he stronger than Jiraiya?

    More importantly, Jiraiya was not trying to 'capture' or defeat Naruto, he was trying to calm him down back to a normal state. There's a massive difference there. Secondly we have no idea how that 'fight' went down, but we do know that Jiraiya wasn't going all out as he was still in base form. Why would Jiraiya try to hurt his student?

    The Akatsuki are designed perfectly in effect to take down tailed beasts. I don't know what the time skip has anything to do with it. Kisame admitted inferiority to Jiraiya, and he didn't even have knowledge on all his abilities. As I said, Jiraiya being stronger than Kisame is cannon.
     
  36. Santoryu way aye mate.

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    I do believe Jiraiya is stronger than Kisame, but using a part one statement to validate that point doesn't mean Jiraiya>Kisame, lol.

    We know a lot of statements were thrown around (Especially in Part 1) to hype up certain characters, I'm not saying we should disregard them completely, but in Part 2 Kisame showed some great feats.

    While I do believe Jiraiya is stronger, I don't think the gap is huge by any means, as it was implied in part 1.

    In Part 1, Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest out of the five kages, despite being miserable compared to his prime. Who actually believes old Sarutobi is stronger than the current Raikage?

    Manga has moved on folks.
     
  37. crystalblade13 hokage

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    like the guy after you said, that was in part one before kisame had any impressive abilities shown.

    also, feats >>>>>>> spoken word.

    killer bee v2 > kn4
     
  38. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Jiraiya was as strong as Itachi.
     
  39. crystalblade13 hokage

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    care to explain how he deals with susanoo and the totsuka?

    I like jiraiya more than itachi btw. I just dont see him beating itachi.
     
  40. emilm Member

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    lolwat? such a lame excuse
     
  41. Kanki KIG

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    It wasn't an opinion from a 3rd party, it was a direct admission. There is a big difference between a shinobi saying "X is stronger than Y", and 'X' admitting himself that 'Y' is stronger than him.

    Power inflation, and Sarutobi was obviously old at that point. Your point would be valid if the 4th Raikage said that old Sarutobi was stronger than him. He didn't, so again it's a useless point.

    Explained all this above. Unless it is said that Kisame improved over the time skip, or Jiraiya declined, then this point is useless.

    And feats has Jiraiya winning also, though in a very tough fight as Kisame is naturally a bad match up for Jiraiya IMO.

    You have completely ignored what I said. That logic is ridiculous.
     
  42. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Care to explain how Itachi deals with Yomi Numa or Sage Mode? Both characters have techniques that can end each other.
    Given Itachi HIMSELF said Jiraiya could stalemate him?
     
  43. Chaos Control Active Member

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    Just about everything that ever came out of Itachi's mouth was a lie. Itachi was just putting on a show for Kisame.
     
  44. ueharakk Active Member

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    The way I see it he's in the same tier as itachi. Can probably beat any of the war-arc/edo kages 1 vs 1 when in sage mode.
     
  45. R00t_Decision ̣

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    I bet......
    If he was probably still alive, he would would most definitely still be in the top 5. He might have even mastered sage mode and went beyond it, as shounen law dictates.

    Anyone saying that Pain would violate Jiraiya a new one, doesn't know what they're talking about.
     
  46. R00t_Decision ̣

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    two of your twelve characters are the same entity.
     
  47. emilm Member

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    Thank you, this is an intelligent post from a neutral perspective. Very true indeed.

    Btw, what is shounen? or the law of shounen?
     
  48. CM Pope The Holy Father

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    Jiraiya went all out against Pein. He showed no hesitation in trying to skewer Animal Path like a boar, busted out Sage Mode, he busted out the Frog Song, he even fatally stabbed three of the Paths with gargantuan swords....

    He could've won had he known that Pein is essentially six separate fighters controlled by one man: Nagato even admitted as much post-battle.

    Itachi and Kisame retreated from Jiraiya, but keep in mind that Amaterasu was enough to bust out of Jiraiya's Jutsu. Kisame actually thought that Itachi could have done more in that skirmish. Basically, Itachi being a secret good guy helped in addition to the chakra drainage he may have experienced.
     
  49. DroxXodia New Member

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    Easily the strongest ninja in the Naruto universe.

    If not for the run in with Pain, he would lay the smack down right now on Madara and Orochimaru.
     
  50. Big Bad Wolf El Jefe De Mundo

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    That's just wrong. Obviously, he's not the strongest ninja in the Narutoverse or otherwise he wouldn't have been defeated by Pain. Can he defeat Oro? I'd give it a strong maybe. Can he defeat Madara?:laughNot even on his best day. Jiraiya could've bean defeated by a number of ppl. And since he already got ended by Pain, he most certainly will not beat Madara for a number of reasons, one of which is Madara being a Rinnegan user. Don't get me wrong, i think Jiraiya was great for his time, but no one in their right mind should go so far as saying he'd "lay the smack down" on Madara. It ain't happening even if he was given 1k tries:wink
    Gotta love the old "power inflation" excuse.

    P1= small picture
    P2= big picture

    Bottom line is the hype in P1 about someone is just that....hype. We know all the players who were around since the hidden villages' were founded up to now so there's no reason to hold on to the excuse of power inflation when folks in P1 who were nothing but hype turned out to not be as big as deal as originally though. Get over it already
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012

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