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Jiraiya vs Orochimaru

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Alex Payne, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Alex Payne a Char

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    X

    Restrictions: Kuchiyose no Jutsu of any kind
    Knowledge: Manga
    Battlefield: Gaara vs Kimimaro battlefield
    Starting Distance: 30 meters
    State of Mind : IC with full intent to kill

    X


    Summoning is banned entirely. That includes such variants as Gamaguchi Shibari and Mandara no Jin. J-Man is as he was against Pain. Orochimaru is as he was against KN4. Keep in mind J-Man's ability to use temporal Sage Mode without Pa/Ma.
     
  2. Soul Agent of Justice

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    Seriously AP?
    Are you that bored? Oh well...

    Orochimaru wins it, eventually; moderate to extreme difficulty.
    The thing is that Jiraiya is a bit more restricted, as, technically, Orochimaru can still use White Snake Mode.

    Also, Orochimaru's Oral Rebirth will give him a lot of chances of killing Jiraiya, while Jiraiya's offensive power is seriously compromised due the lack of Sage Mode. I see this being a battle of attrition, one that Orochimaru will win.

    Jiraiya can not use Sage Mode by himself.
    Unless, of course, you can prove me wrong.
     
  3. Alex Payne a Char

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    X He has a time/chakra limit and must stay still to enter it - similar to Naruto. But he can use it.
     
  4. Goose Feather of Infinity Administrator

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    This is basically a really restricted base Jiraiya against a slightly restricted Orochimaru. Without the support of Fukasaku and Shima, I see it being very unlikely that Jiraiya would resort to using Sage Mode due to the time needed to enter it and the fact he has trouble maintaining it.

    Despite being more restricted, Jiraiya has a lot more options to work with than Orochimaru as a large portion of his repertoire consists of snake based techniques, but I would still give the edge to Orochimaru. Orochimaru may not have a lot of jutsu, but there is nothing Jiraiya has that can actually kill Orochimaru. He does, as Soul pointed out, still have his oral rebirth jutsu. If he can survive having his arm torn off and being torn in half, what does Jiraiya have that can kill Orochimaru? Doton: Yomi Numa is the only thing I can think of, and even then Orochimaru can counter it by spitting his Kusanagi at Jiraiya. Either he maintains the swamp and is impaled or dodges and releases the swamp.

    In close combat or Taijutsu, Orochimaru still has the edge. He has a weapon to work with, a very sharp weapon, whereas Jiraiya is forced to fight unarmed. Jiraiya may have a defense, but it isn't going to soak the damage from Orochimaru's sword one bit. Moreover, Orochimaru can extend his limbs and twist around Jiraiya, making it harder to actually hit him. Although doing that would make Orochimru easier to hit with Hari Jizō.
     
  5. Tengu Kiuuby-chan

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    Orochimaru wins, Jiraiya can't use HM on his own:
    Spoiler:
    X

    While Oro can use Yamato no Orochi, since that isn't a summon, and Jiraiya has no way to kill it.
     
  6. Alex Payne a Char

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    First part was contradicted by Fukusaku later. About Hydra - how about Yomi Numa? :maybe
     
  7. Soul Agent of Justice

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    He can enter, but he has to gather natural energy and all that shit.
    And we know that Pa stated that you can not enter SM in battle if you take that long gathering the energy you need.

    You have a good argument, but I just don't see it happening in this scenario.

    Yomi Numa should work nicely against Yamata no Orochi.
     
  8. Goose Feather of Infinity Administrator

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    Not sure if it would sink something that big instantly, so I suppose he could try bashing Jiraiya with one of his many heads or impaling Jiraiya with his Kusanagi before he was fully submerged. :hurr
     
  9. Soul Agent of Justice

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    Maybe it wouldn't sink instantly, maybe it would.
    What we know is that Yomi Numa will be extremely effective in that scenario.
     
  10. Scorpion GET OVER HERE!

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    Come on OP just make no restrictions and it'll be a lot funner to debate.
     
  11. Phoenix Zoro First mate of Kaidou Pirates

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    Restricting HM puts it in orochi's favour, they are imo practically even when Jiraiya has HM, in base, he cannot beat orochimaru.
     
  12. WolfPrinceKiba WPKO OUTTA NOWHERE!

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    Its nice sometimes to have different conditions to matches that have been done so many times.
     
  13. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    I'm not sure if Yomi Numa would be effective on Yamata. If it sank the body, the heads would still be able to attack, and Orochimaru would (likely) be able to exit the mouth. However, seeing as how those doffer snakes were fast enough to break Jiraiya's leg and ribs, I think eight hydra-heads would do some damage.
     
  14. Sanbi Old School

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    I agree with WPK, having some neat restrictions like what AP did here puts a little flair in a debate that has been done a thousand times.

    Restricting summoning really puts a damper on both sides.

    Orochimaru still has his one futon, the kusanagi, his body modification jutsu, LAC, oral rebirth, and his trump card Yamata. Orochimaru has a pretty limited arsenal in terms of attacking here.

    Jiraiya, while still heavily reliant on summons, still has a decent sized aresnal without his toads. He still has his katons, Gamayudan, Yomi Numa, the detection barrier, Ranjishigami, Rasengan, his shadow jutsu, and most of all his short but sweet version of SM. Jiraiya still has really good attacks, good defenses and good supporting jutsu, and his SM is just the kicker.

    Only because of Orochmaru's limitations when it comes to attacks with no summons do I give Jiraiya the advantage. Otherwise both of them have decent chances at winning. Orochimaru due to his sneaky and resilient fighting style, and Jiraiya thanks to his diverse and dangerous arsenal of jutsu.
     
  15. Hazuki Legend

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    you mean the same jiraiya who was drugged with just enough chakra to summoned gamakishi ??

    also yumi numa would be a nightmare for yamata
     
  16. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    I'm pretty sure it was the same Jiraiya that used much stronger jutsu, with Gambabuta's cooperation, than he is allowed to use here.
     
  17. Sanbi Old School

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    Didn't Jiraiya break his legs and ribs from being slammed into the ground by Orochimaru, and not the snakes?
     
  18. Turrin 玄武

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    If Orochimaru is as he was against KN4, he's going to run out of juice much quicker, due to body failure. Jiriaya on thee other hand is much more limited due to the lack of summons considering that he can not use his triumph card SM, while Orochimaru can use Yamata no Orochi. And yes I am aware that Jiriaya can enter SM w/o the elder toads, but I do not believe its practical here since he can't summon allies to help him buy time to gather natural energy.

    This leaves Jiriaya in Base Mode, however because of Orochimaru's body failure he's not off as bad as he might typically be and this battle basically becomes can Orochimaru defeat Jiraiya before his body fails him. I'd say no Jiriaya can pull this off. Jiriaya has the same speed stat as Orochimaru in the Data-book, is actually better at Taijutsu, and can use KB more freely so I don't see Orochimaru overwhelming Jiriaya in close CQC. Madara no Jin would be countered with Yomi Numa and if Orochimaru gets ensnared by Yomi Numa he'll end up having to waste an Oral Rebirth just to escape. The only Jutsu I see Jiriaya having difficulty with is Yamata no Orochi, but I don't imagine that Orochimaru with body failure going on can hold that Jutsu long and even than Yomi Numa should be able to ensnare or slow down Yamata movements enough for Jiriaya fall back.

    So I think Jiriaya would survive to the point where Orochimaru's body fails, him, however Orochimaru won't just lay down and die if his body fails him rather he'll escape the body and enter White Snake Form. This is where Jiriaya could loose. If Jiriaya use Yomi Numa on Orochimaru, than Oro's doomed, but if Jiriaya blasts him apart with lesser attacks he'll end up poisoned and Orochimaru can than kill him. However if Orochimaru makes the mistake of trying to body transfer with Jiriaya, which he very well might because he'll need a new body, than I can also see Jiriaya with his will power overcoming the dimension and defeating Orochimaru.

    So I'd say the battle could go ether way, but I give the small node to Orochimaru, simply because he has a chance to kill Jiriaya before his body fails and than has another chance to kill him after his body fails. Furthermore overall Orochimaru seems like he is much less handicapped than Jiriaya. So Oro 6/10 times.
     
  19. Baroxio Unlimited Strategy Works

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    Under normal circumstances I would say that Jman rapes under these conditions. Summoning my be half of Jman's power, but it's like 90% of Orochimaru's power.

    Then I remembered White Snake form, who has HAXX poison. :zaru

    Orochimaru wins.
     
  20. WolfPrinceKiba WPKO OUTTA NOWHERE!

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    Funny since Orochimaru's best stamina display and one of the best stamina displays in the manga was his fight vs KN4.

    Which Jiraiya has a really good counter to, out of fortune.

    Doesn't mean their battle speed is the same. Sasuke and Deidara also share a 4.5 in speed in the databook but are definitely not equal in battle speed. Orochimaru has better manga speed feats(blitzing KN4) which was due to him seemingly increasing it with the use of nan no kaizou.

    Made up for by the fact that Orochimaru has a legendary sword on hand and has the durability to tank any attack base Jiraiya has and then land a counterattack.
     
  21. Marik Swift Ƀĕĕń ĺȗȑǩiṋḡ ṧḯṉḉḕ '07

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    As stated by all before me, this is not really a restriction to Orochimaru at all. Jiraiya on the other hand is less than half his strength without his toads, and wouldn't find a opening to enter SM on his own without Fukasaku and Shima. While Orochimaru has the use of Oral Rebirth and pretty much all his techniques. Jiraiya's best chance is Yomi Numa, and even that could possibly be countered with Hiru Banshō: Bōka no Jutsu.

    All in all Jiraiya puts up a good fight but eventually Orochimaru will take him down, mid-high difficulty.
     
  22. Turrin 玄武

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    The only reason this is the case is because Orochimaru at full power never really fought all out in this manga.

    Most people have a good counter to, Yamata no Orochi. Really by feats Yamata no Orochi isn't all that impressive based on its current feats, it doesn't have any substantial speed feats and it hasn't shown any attack besides physically throwing its heads at the opponent. All it really seems to do for Orochimaru is give him greater physical strength and defense, but at the expense of making him a much larger target, I.E. its like a Bijuu but w/o the powerful attacks like Wind Bullets, Sand Tsunami's, Bijuu Bombs, and large chakra quantities to go with it.

    Kisame can absorb its chakra
    Deidara can bomb the shit out if
    Itachi has Amaterasu or Totusuka blade
    Jiriaya has Yomi Numa, Gamma Yu Endan, and Frog Song
    Naruto's got FRS or Chou Oddoma Rasengan Barrage
    Sasuke's got Amaterasu
    B's got Bijuu Bomb
    Gaara's got Sand Tsunamis
    Onoki's got Dust Release
    etc...

    Jiriaya is not the only one who has a good counter to the Jutsu.

    Sasuke has the Sharingan to augment his battle speed and a highly advanced Shunshin. Orochimaru does not have these things to augment his speed.

    That doesn't change that Jiriaya's Taijutsu is better. That just gives Oro other advantages, but Jiriaya has Rasengan, Hair Jutsu, Katons, and KB

    With this stuff aside, I agree that Orochimaru is more likely to win anyway, so I don't know why your arguing with me. I just think Jiriaya has some chance at winning as well and wouldn't get stomped.
     
  23. WolfPrinceKiba WPKO OUTTA NOWHERE!

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    I understand this though you make Orochimaru's stamina out to be bad in a way by bringing up that hes limited to what he showed vs KN4, which I'm saying is actually a great stamina showing, definitely enough to allow him enough time to beat someone of this Jiraiya's caliber and considering his own restrictions.

    Jiraiya's is tailor made to deal with large beings. Overall, it is a superior counter than the counters you listed for the other characters bar Totsuka due to it being ranged, quick and doing the job instantly. The same could not be said for a good deal of the rest, especially when Orochimaru and the Yamata are actually attacking back(sorry Kisame you're not sucking its chakra that easy).

    I already provided an example of him seemingly augmenting his speed with nan no kaizou.

    I'm arguing for arguments sake.

    I'd think it ridiculous of anyone to think he'd get stomped.
     
  24. Turrin 玄武

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    Not really I just said that he would run out of Stamina much quicker than he normally would due to body failure.

    Jiriaya is not really tailor made to handle anything, he is simply a very versatile Shinobi with the greatest amount of techniques to date in the manga. As for Yomi Numa being a good counter, yeah its a good counter, but I'm not sure i'd go so far as to say its thee best counter bar Totasuka and I also think Orochimaru is quite lucky in this match that Jiriaya's other counters to the jutsu like Gamma Yu Endan and Frog Song are not viable due to the restrictions. Jiriaya is without a doubt more effected and handicapped by the conditions considering he can't enter his strongest form and losses access to many of his strongest techniques (Food Cart Destroy, Toad Stomach, Gamma Yu Endan, Toad Guard Prison, Chou Oddoma Rasengan, Deep Fryer, Needle Barrage, Fusaku and Shima's techniques including Frog Song, and even the techniques he has access to like his Katon and Yomi Numa are not as powerful as they could be), while Orochimaru still has his strongest form and the only powerful technique he losses access to is Edo Tensei, which he doesn't always have access to under normal conditions due to the necessary prep-time needed to use it.

    Not really nothing says that soft body modification augmented his speed and there is nothing that states the jutsu is capable of such in the manga or the DB. Landing a blow on KN4 and than getting torn apart, is not that impressive as it does not seem like KN4 can move at all and certainly KN4 has no high speed movement feats.

    LOL
     
  25. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    I'm pretty sure he said Orochimaru's summons did it.
     
  26. Sanbi Old School

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    I just re-read it, and all he says at the end of the fight is that he broke a leg and a rib, and the only time I can think of that was shown during that fight that could cause a broken leg and rib, would be Oro slamming Jiraiya into the ground.
     

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