1. The Konoha Kennel is back! As a subsection to the Chatterbox, discuss your favorite fauna-related topics at a fun and laid-back pace. From animals to zoos, it's your one-stop destination for critter lovers!

Im sorry but why did kid Madara suck so much skippin rocks across a river? And stats?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by Algol, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Algol Active Member

    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This is a dude who grows up to make giant armor come out of his eyes that can slice mountains in half, a kid who grows up to be able to pull down two meteors from outer space... and he can't skip a damn rock across a river??

    I mean, kids his age train to fight with swords, throw knives and giant stars while jumping through trees, fight in war and stuff... and he has trouble skipping a rock?

    ...

    And life expectancy of 30? Lol who's the leader of the Statistics Clan specialized in data anlysis jutsu that went around and conducted that study?

    "Excuse me, Mr. Uchiha. What are the names, ages, and gender of everyone Hashirama and co. killed today, if you don't mind?"

    Uchiha: "Fuck off! Katon: Goukakyu no Jutsu!"

    "Lol katon... Is this a bad time for you? I'll come back later."

    Uchiha: [sigh] "... sure."

    Spoiler:
    Just havin some fun on things that took me out a bit.
     
  2. Ricky Sen Member

    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    They probably kept exact records of their dead like most military groups attempt to in war times. If someone is found dead, or MIA for an extended period of time, then they are declared or presumed dead.

    When Konoha was founded the records were compiled and compared and eventually it became known that the average life expectancy for members of either clans at the time was 30.

    You don't need to do a census when your entire clan is a military organization that presumably keeps track of its soldiers like every other military organization going back to tribal times.

    Agreed on the rock skipping part though. I'm equally curious about Madara's woefully inept rock skipping skills. A young me would have done better and I can't kill a man 101 ways with a kunai.
     
  3. Herekic Deal with it

    Messages:
    3,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    We don't even know how old he was.


    Also madara has never been a phsycial powerhouse, it was his chakra and sharingan that made him so hax

    He likely can't mold chakra very well yet, and he has no sharingan

    so yea
     
  4. Big Bad Wolf El Jefe De Mundo

    Messages:
    7,914
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    OP made it sound like it's that easy for someone to skip a rock to the opposite side of a shore :maybe
     
  5. Anko-san Tokubetsu Jounin

    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I thought it was cute. :lmao
     
  6. Algol Active Member

    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yeah maybe not for us. But these are superpowered kids who shoot fireballs and fight wars that revolve around throwing knives and swords at each other. Jus sayin, seems funny to me he couldn't skip a rock that well.
     
  7. Skywalker Imperial Conqueror

    Messages:
    23,698
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Uchiha and rocks don't mix well.
     
  8. vagnard Active Member

    Messages:
    16,360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It's really stupid really and a plothole. 12 years old Sasuke was one shoting giant bears of severals tons with a single kick. All ninjas have speed and strength way above an average human. Hell.. the precision to throw a shuriken with their accuracy probably surpass by far the skill to skip rocks across a river.
     
  9. Kage

    Messages:
    18,474
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    do you know how hard it is to skip rocks across a river? :pek
     
  10. Namikaze_Minato Yellow Flash, Motherfucker.

    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    cos madara is a weak faggot. had to be taught by a senju on how to skipping rocks across a river.

    weak people are ugly, just like madara.
     
  11. UltimateDeadpool Steam Danger Tyrant

    Messages:
    17,126
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    48
    He held the stone like a kunai, so he was inadvertently trying to kill the water.
     
  12. Ezekial Does want a custom title

    Messages:
    6,555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Dude I can only do 3-4 skips, do you know how difficult skipping is! :uwah
     
  13. spiritmight High Frequency, Bitches

    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    The skill required for skipping a rock all the way across a river is probably different from the skill required to throw a shuriken into someone's chest.

    Even Hashirama noted that Madara was used to handling shuriken

    Throwing shuriken =/= skipping stones.
     
  14. Jizznificent Your unborn bro

    Messages:
    8,288
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    bitches don't know about skipping rocks. :capc
     
  15. metaXzero Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    We don't even know how old Madara was. We don't know if he was at that stage where he was making waves in the Uchiha clan.

    And maybe he just sucked at skipping rocks?
     
  16. Doctor Lamperouge The World Smith

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Obviously because rocks and Uchiha are mortal enemies. The rock instinctively knew it was being held in the palm of its archnemesis, so it willed itself to be heavier and harder to throw. Rocks like Senju though, which is why Hashirama was able to skip it across the river with ease.
     
  17. PDQ Meta-Debater

    Messages:
    11,661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Doubtful. Throwing accurately is nowhere near as difficult as skipping rocks across an entire river He could likely throw it across the river accurately, but that's different from skipping it. He doesn't even have problems skipping it, just skipping it the entire distance. Most people have a hard enough time skipping rocks period.

    Not to mention they'd likely teach you how to throw shuriken whereas skipping rocks is more selftaught.
     
  18. The Prodigy A glorious death ;)

    Messages:
    5,135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    skipping rocks is hard to do

    Hashirama is a master of rock skipping
     
  19. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh Advisor

    Messages:
    17,695
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The skipping rocks annoyed me last chapter but it was put into context in this chapter. Madara isn't some Naruto-like klutz; he has experience throwing shuriken, but he probably hadn't tried to skip rocks at all before that. And he mastered it by the next time he was shown.
     
  20. Closet Pervert Legendary Pervert

    Messages:
    7,976
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    No Sharingan.
    Good point. That parallels how Madara couldn't live in a peace time but had to wage war (except in caves:hehee). War is all he knew.
     
  21. TaskMaster Bedroom G

    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Skipping rocks is one of the hardest things to do in life.

    Hashirama "God of Rock-Skipping"
     
  22. Veikuri Master of Magnetism

    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    You people complain about every little thing.
     
  23. Algol Active Member

    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    yeah, basically my thoughts

    i forgot about this, good point. damn kishi and his clever foreshadowing!

    already showing signs of evil, at such a young age. no wonder tobirama chose water as his element, he's sworn to protect the rivers, the lakes, and the seas from the uchiha!

    waddya mean "YOU people"?!?!
     
  24. Grimmjowsensei True Hokage

    Messages:
    42,487
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Madara is not me obviously.
     
  25. PikaCheeka wants to believe

    Messages:
    22,414
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Average life expectancy comment made me laugh a little. If half the kids are getting killed at 7, as was implied, then the "average" age means that most people who do survive to adulthood live well into their 40s. It was one of those things that Kishi should have worded more carefully

    This.

    Skipping stones requires a certain trick to it, and Madara was just missing it.
     
  26. Edo Madara Kamui Dimension

    Messages:
    4,193
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Madara is Naruto of that generation, heck Naruto at that age is probably better than him at skipping stones :maybe
     
  27. vagnard Active Member

    Messages:
    16,360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    lol no. There are a lot of people in real life that can actually skip rocks but the accuracy of shurikens is inhumanly stupid in Naruto. Itachi was hiting bullseyes that he couldn't even see and were behind rocks. (he hit them with curve throws) We also have seen ninjas often countering shurikens and kunais with other kunais and dozens of them in few seconds. I'd like to see a human being doing that.

    Considering the level of arm strenght and skill of an average ninja, skipping a rock across that small river should be a walk on the park.

    Hell I did a little research. The world record are 51 times across a distance of 76 meters. That could be easily the distance of the stream we saw in the manga. If a normal human can do that then sorry... I'm not impressed with Hashirama and Madara.
     
  28. Antos Member

    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    your question is easy to answer and that is he's not itachi. but than agian you know uchihas rock>uchiha
     
  29. grinninggrizzly This is BAD NEWS!!

    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Oh come, you folks expect ninja to be good at everything. It was already stated that he just wasn't doing it right. Saying he was a skilled shuriken user is a moot point as it was implied that perhaps throwing the rock like a damn shuriken might have been the reason why he couldn't get it across the river. Being able to slice up mountains doesn't mean you can skip a rock across a river. There's a trick to it. If you can't figure it out, you'll naturally fail. Remember when Itachi took sasuke hunting? He sucked big time at the time too.
     
  30. ryz MOAR POWA!

    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    It's not the throwing, it the *HOW* to throw.

    If any body follows cricket, they will understand what I mean, Every bowler can throw a bowl across the pitch, but spinners have the technique to throw, make it bounce, and have it *spin* the way they want!

    Hence Madara. Madara throws a random pebble, sees it skip once before sinking. He goes "Hey! This skipping stuff is cool! I wonder if I could make it do it *all* the way to the river"

    But muscle memory is a bitch

    He keeps throwing like shuriken would, and it would sink after a few skips.

    But soon, he realises his folly, adjusts his angle and strength, and plink! it's across the other side!

    Remember, he wasn't free in the meanwhile, just like Hashi, he was doing missions and stuff.
     
  31. Seon Sero Master....

    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Not everything has to do with fighting lol. Hashirama probably can't play soccer but he was the fucking first hokage. Not everything correlates
     
  32. vagnard Active Member

    Messages:
    16,360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It depends on the situation. Probably Hashirama wouldn't know the rules. But if he kicked the ball he most likely could score a goal from any point of the field given his superhuman strength. We are talking about people who punches guys through walls since they are kids. Sasuke was kicking giant bears and being punched by Naruto through layers of mountains cliffs.
     
  33. Toby Well-Known Member Advisor

    Messages:
    12,754
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Context.

    Okay, so the reason they are skipping stones in the first place is the fact that they are kids. But Kishi wants to tell us something. What is interesting to note is that Madara learned to throw a shuriken before learning to make a stone skip. That's why he can't do it right yet.

    Pause. Think about that. It's because they are raised in a time of war. This is supposed to be their childhood, but instead they are being trained to be soldiers. So we can assume the time they get to spend playing with other kids is limited, and they treat one another with suspicion, and withhold their surnnames. This norm probably came into existence so that kids could lead a somewhat normal life. (Still it is concerning that kids are allowed to leave their territory to play, or that they have to sneak out in order to do so.)

    Compare this to your own situation. When you were a kid, chances were, you learned to throw stones before you even got permission to touch a knife. Not so in this world. That is the point of this. Second, making the stone skip across a moving current is harder than throwing a knife at a static target.

    As for statistics, this is quite normal. In ancient Greece and Rome, the statistics of dead, wounded and lost were recorded at the end of battle. This practice spread over the continent quickly thereafter. I am not sure about the practice in Asia, but statistics have existed for centuries in European history both for military and economic purposes of statecraft. As a statistics nerd, I think what matters here is that a large portion of children would have to be part of the fighting force in order to lower the average, since we normally assume that able-bodied men and women would be the largest component. Naturally, if you want to lower the average death of a combatant, you need to add a significant number of young combatants to the total fighting force.

    It is interesting that in Kishi's world, women, men and children have all been on the battlefield, leaving us to assume that what gender-divide ever existed in the past was exempted in times of extreme conflict. This shows extremely poor judgement on the part of tribal leaders obviously since you need to raise children in order for your society to grow and to maintain a trained force. We can only assume that the leaders were so desperate that they turned to irrational tactics. Later, in the great shinobi war, it is noted by Tsunade and the Sannin that the children were still involved in the fighting, albeit often indirectly as collateral.

    So there has been some improvement in the ninja world's ethical code of war, but clearly those assumptions apply to villages with a stable society, since the country of rain was, and remains, a failed state where children are still considered valid targets in war. There are also several examples of an honor-code which lead adults to think in a strongheaded way even while their children are rational actors. This is pretty telling in the case of Hashirama's encounter with his father.
     
  34. ImperatorMortis Active Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Can you skip a rock across a river? Also it may be hard to believe, but not being able to do something at 7 years old or whatever =/= Not being great at other stuff when you're an adult.
     
  35. Yakkai Domming Your Mom

    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I think it was just to show that Madara wasn't born as a supreme lord of badassery, he was a stupid kid once like everyone else.
     
  36. Sorin R.I.P. Johan Cruyff

    Messages:
    6,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Passion bro. Madara lacked it.:maybe

    There's always the popular: he ain't 'bout that skipping stones across a river life.
     
  37. Neelix Don Poucho

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Look at him now, skippin' bijuudamas across the sea like a baws.
     
  38. Klue 輪廻

    Messages:
    58,082
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I thought he said that the average shinobi reached 30 years of age, but that number was reduced by the number of children killed?
     
  39. Toby Well-Known Member Advisor

    Messages:
    12,754
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    That is what he said but maths is illegal for some peeps in nf. generally speaking if half or a third of the fighting force were 7 then the numbers do add up.
     
  40. BatoKusanagi NaruHina: The Last Movie

    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This the correct answer.
     
  41. NarutoShion4ever Active Member

    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Hashirama and Madara are skipping stones like ordinary humans, instead of the super-powerful humans they are.

    Good post.

    That's probably why Hashirama and Madara are skipping stones with an ability closer to ordinary humans.
     
  42. AreYouOkDannii away fighting dragons

    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Cos it's a rock.

    Rock and Uchihas are two things that don't mix.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  43. Jagger Active Member

    Messages:
    12,087
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    You guys complain a lot. :giogio

    They're just kids. Some people are good at something while others are not. Besides, it's not like throwing some random rocks to reach the other side would save his life at some point of something.
     
  44. Raiden I'm with <b><font color="#ff6600">COCO</font></b>

    Messages:
    36,488
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Kids usually do things like skip rocks. But what we saw was that the norms of childhood clash with the realities of the ninja world. That's why he can fight but not necessarily do normal things.

    Also you know that rocks usually troll Uchiha :pek.
     
  45. Bumi Jedi Knight

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Rocks are the natural enemies of the Uchiha. Of course, Mads couldn't get it to the other side of the river. The rock was actively working against him.

    Seriously, though, it was a storytelling device. You have to admit, it was good metaphor. And as for the stats thing, I'm sure the clans kept up with their own soldiers internally. They didn't need a 'census', and they probably all knew each other, so it wasn't hard to keep up with which of your friends/family died.
     
  46. Lelouch71 Zero

    Messages:
    19,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Madara was just the Naruto of his time. He can't do everything right the first time unlike the genius Hashirama.
     
  47. iJutsu Active Member

    Messages:
    7,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    If you think about it, the rock saved Madara's life. If he hadn't gone of missions and practiced nonstop after Hashi showed him up, he would've died instead of his brothers. :maybe
     
  48. Karyu Endan Smilies = Not serious

    Messages:
    1,331
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    That's because when first starting out, Madara was throwing the rock the same way he'd throw a Shuriken. Hashirama thinks as such. And it's probably because Madara had thrown Shuriken so much his body was subconsciously making him throw all small objects like Shuriken... which makes the situation about child soldiers even more horrible than it looked in the chapter on first glance. Madara later learning the proper technique to throw a rock, thus getting it to the other side of the shore, is symbolic of his attempts to break free from the endless war in his era.
     
  49. vagnard Active Member

    Messages:
    16,360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    From what I remember Madara was stated in Tobi's flashback to be a genius since he was a kid. This isn't the NaruSasu dynamic. Both guys here are geniuses. (Hashirama probably even more but that's not the point)
     

Share This Page