Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Santoryu, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM.
Smacked and danced around all of the Bijuu
Embarrassed Naruto, Hashirama and co.
Still could use susanoo
Had hashicum to heal him
And had Sage sensing
most ninjas would be impressive with all those things
Blind Madara is just VotE Madara without eyes, he only 'embarrassed' Hashirama because he had rods in him from the previous fight and couldn't move.
he's VotE Madara with much stronger base stats and with Mokuton
hangs somewhere in the top of high kage tier (semi-god tier)
lul not even close
VotE Madara misses Hashi's DNA & SM
Strong enough to get smaked around by the Bijuu .
BM Naruto pinned him down with one tail .
The Bijuu clubbered him w/o using a single chakra based attack , and ripped off his arm .
Still , very strong , with SM , Mokuton , V3 Susanoo, and fast healing.
So why would Hashirama say that if Madara is so much greater than before? Here's the viz version:
Base stats wise at least, he seems to be 1:1 with VotE, Hashirama blatantly says this.
That was pretty much right after he was revived and used the Katon jutsu. Nothing cool really happened at that time that would show Madara's superiority to his VotE self.
When you think about it , Hashi's word made no sense at all , especially that Kabuto supposedly brought Madara back beyond his prime , so do we have a contradiction here or what ?
Also , iirc , Hashirama said that Madara is getting back his past strength, not that he already got it
Meh , Kishi will say anything to hype Madara up
No different than him with his eyes. Kishi gave him the asspull that he can use his jutsu like he can with eyes. So, really, I don't see the difference.
Think we can chalk that up to kabuto not having a clue what he was talking about when he referenced mads glory days.
By "beyond his prime" i always assumed kabuto meant he gave mads his rinnegan while in a younger body and near full use of mokuton, he gave mads a larger skill pallet than he had in his prime, not a higher skill/power level tho.
Then you consider the fact an edo body supposedly cannot be revived at 100% power and it becomes even more likely.
He's basically the same as his vote self with the added perks of Sage Mode and Mokuton along with Regen but he loses the perk of being able to summon Kurama which was some extra good firepower but meh.
Hashi's words makes no sense. It shouldn't come as a surprise, he does not know Kabuto, nor does he know that Kabuto is better than Oro.
Asspulldara was able to show all of his abilities, and that includes his strongest jutsu, PS. With the additional power of Hashi's cells, Rinnegan, regeneration and endless amount of chakra. How can he be weaker with all those shit added to him.
VotE Madara would have died from Sasuke's Amaterasu. Blind Madara also had the Rinnegan's body abilities and Hashirama's Mokuton. All in all, he was probably stronger than VotE Madara.
VoTe Madara would have never been touched by Amaterasu.
That scan is a good point actually. I never noticed that Madara pretty much shut down Kabuto's claim of knowing how powerful Madara really was.
Turned into a madara hate thread quick lol.
He definitely meant Madara's base stats such a speed, reactions, agility. When you're dead you're not going to care about these things as you cant die
With SM, rikudou chakra, a far greater chakra pool, Wood Release, much higher base stats, and hashirama regeneration he's the bridge to god tier
He has SM Hashiramas base stats with SM mokuryu being his strongest mokuton and V3 susanoo being his strongest susanoo
He is around EMS Sasuke and BM naruto level in overall power
That's Rinnegan Madara , not the blind one .
@Hussain , you got the GIF of the Bijuu clobbering Madara ??
Holy shit, he got attacked with so much force with no Susanoo on and he still suffered no injuries whatsoever.
He's even more of a beast than I thought.
The most retarded thing was him surviving Saiken's deep puddle of acid .
What the fuck Kishi ....
Because he's just too good. All hail The Great One
BM Naruto level
Um , no blind SM Madara is not a BM Naruto level.
With zero knowledge he might give BM Naruto some trouble thanks to Mokuryu absorption, but at that point in the manga , no .
Madara asked Kabuto if he knew him from his "Prime" to which Kabuto replied that he didn't and asked him to show him his power.
So maybe Kabuto simply did not know that Madara at his Prime used to be even stronger. Or thought that Hashi's DNA did make him as strong regardless of whether ET would bring him at 100% or not.
It's not acid, it's X.
Clearly he can harden his body with chakra
Yeah it's so clear that you had to wash it after you randomly pulled it out of your ass.
I'll go with the so much unclear theory that he's just really durable thanks to the SM durability boost, but thanks for the offer.
don't get offended, I just wanted to look cool for once
Did Mads have SM when when he was revived? Iirc he restrained Hashi and latter absorbed his SM, saying it was not impressive with his signature hubris.
Blind Madara is a troll. With SM is even more than a troll. He could even move better without his eyes than with them in Edo. Blind Madara (minus SM) was even immune to ninjutsu. Amaterasu didn't even burn him, and he had no eyes!!!! He blitzed Naruto (in SM) and Sai and got to Hashi, to even absorb his senjutsu.
yeah he's obv > VotE Madara in base stats by a solid margin
So is this BlindMadara without SM or with it. Few panels to even judge.
OP means SM version, look at the feats he mentioned
When SM runs out would he be that OP? I mean I assume he blitzed everyone at first to get to Hashi. There was a reason he didn't want to keep "dancing" and went straight for Hashi's wood senjutsu. It was necessary for him to be able to keep up against the rest, with senjutsu fairly superior sensing. I think he blitzed everyone at first cause Naruto and Sai barely moved so he had a fairly good idea where everyone was after he lost Rinnegan by Edo rebirth.
why wouldn't he be able to keep the SM on forever?
while he was still ET and Juubito became a thing, he was pretty sure he can take on him once he gets his hands on SM
it was never implied that he would have to hurry and do the job before SM runs out
chances are he understood the mechanics behind it pretty quickly and the Hashiboob would keep absorbing Natural Energy passively
imo he just wanted to get on with the plan since there was really nothing to wait for anymore
reason why he 'danced around' as an ET was because he couldn't become Juubi jinchuuriki as an ET anyways, so he had to wait for the perfect opportunity
once he was alive, we've never seen him waste time
no, Madara is a sensor
either natural or thanks to Rinnengan chakra
remember when he sensed Hashirama across several kilometers ?
Cause senjutsu isn't a auto-generated. I suppose he just grabbed the senjutsu chakra as Preta Path did, but since Preta path chakra parts (physical and spiritual energy) is below the absorbed natural energy(not in equilibrium), then heturned into frog statue. However Mad's when absorbed Hashi's natural energy, i think X. Maybe this could be hubris but Mad's fused with Hashi DNA had prob vast chakra enough for him to handle even a considerable fraction of Hashi's natural energy and Hashi's natural energy was turning low i assume, he already had that mode since Juubito.
He could have left hashi imprisoned with his jutsu by the rods and go towards the beasts. He already blitzed everyone else. However he still went to Hashi immediately after he revived to absorb his senjutsu.
To pin point so accurately even hits (Sasuke's) while blind is required either a pretty OP sensor or just senjutsu. I bet the cause is the latter. Which is the reason why he went towards Hashi first.
if he was the one absorbing it, why wouldn't the red markings of SM appear on his face instead of Hashiboob's?
because why not?
why dance when you can get a free power-up and go on finishing your master-plan?
I don't see what you mean here, it makes sense to me that Madara took SM as soon as he could
ofc after he got SM, most of his reactions should be attributed to SM
I am just saying that he has normal sensing and so he didn't have to remember Sai's and Naruto's positions since he could sense them as blind SM-less Madara too
Hashi's senjutsu is proper to him. Not everyone can master wood senjutsu. I doubt anyone could.
You are missing the point. Madara could have blitzed Naruto and Sai, Hashi was already restrained, and get immediately towards the beasts. But he went to Hashi first to actively absorb his senjutsu.
Every shinobi has some kind of sensing, but i doubt his sensing is as good as to even maintain a proper fight without senjutsu.
Doesn't explain why it appeared on the face
It's still just natural energy
If he didn't have Hashiboob, would it appear on his face? Or what
Yeah, and why wouldn't he do it? It takes him a second or two and gives him a power-up.
I wonder if you would run past a quick harmless power-up if you were preparing yourself to fight 9 strongest creatures in the universe at once?
True, then I don't get why you thought that he had to remember their positions in order to find them and send them flying back after losing his sight?
I never said that
Hashi's senjutsu is unique, has unique traits (which we still don't know as of yet). Can be attributed it only manifest to Hashi's DNA. So in that sense no, it couldn't have appeared in Mad's head. Nor can it be learned unless you have Hashi DNA.
Or he needed senjutsu. Specially to fight, it covers every basis he's lacking. His eyes.
It's one assumption. After all Naruto nor Sai moved. And Mads stroke them both and left towards Hashi.
He should be able to use SM PS, but as always plot.
That is his full power.
natural energy is natural energy considering Kishimoto didn't differentiate them anyhow
Tobirama talked about Naruto's SM as equal to Hashi's and not as if it's a different mode
could be that. maybe.
No other instance of anyone learning wood sage mode. I think you are implying all of them behave the same which Hashi was shown to be an exception.
I'm pretty sure this is not equal as having the same traits since they are not. He's just comparing Hashi with Nardo, as many times different chars mentioned in the manga.
there's no thing as a wood sage mode. it doesn't even make any sense
how would they be able to differ from each other? they are both using the same energy
even when Kabuto named his SM differently, it still had the same attributes that frog SM has
it's just a sage mode unless you have a proof statement from a databook/manga
well I meant it more like that Tobirama simply said senjutsu and sage mode and didn't care enough to mention that it's a different mode than his brother has
In the gathering process, there should be different. Since they are instinctively different.
Well he knows it's a senjutsu mode. It's all about it. If he didn't mention the differences, well he didn't have to, he just needs to know he possessed senjutsu techniques.
What do you mean by gathering process
seems like it even works on the same principle
he immediately understood that Naruto perfected it, hinting that Hashirama's SM also had some negative effects before it was mastered that were visible on the first sight
basically Kishi did not care enough to speak through Tobirama's mouth and say ''His Hermit mode is almost like my brother's" or anything in that sense, nor did he make an individual entry for Hashi's SM in databook
and since Kishi did not do it, there's no reason why we should believe they function differently just because it's Hashirama
We only have one example of how natural energy is gathered. Which is Naruto's. There should be a difference in the process since all senjutsu modes are different. I assume in how Naruto gathers natural energy is how it influences in the mode he's going to get. If you absorb it mimicking how it felt the "frog oil" then u'll get the frog sage mode. Maybe the same for other examples which we didn't saw. Or in the contract they adquire a signature chakra to get the frog sage mode.
The principle as to gather natural chakra seems to be equal in that i agree.
It's really simple as to why Tobirama can pin point Naruto's SM is perfected. You can only achieve perfection on such technique if you balance physical energy + spiritual energy + natural energy in equal parts. Naruto might have all of them balanced equally and Tobirama being a sensor could not he perfected his SM. And no in that part he does not claim both sage arts were the same. Just that they are alike.
Hmm I don't get this. They all gather natural energy the same way, just by concentrating on the nature and letting it flow and mix with their own chakra.
If they are skilled enough, they can do that while moving since their concentration is much stronger (only SM Kabuto IIRC, Naruto came pretty close to doing this as well but he still had to at least close his eyes)
I don't see no difference here, actually it's one of the traits that is identical between all the different SMs
sensors can sense chakra as a whole, not individual parts of it (physical and spiritual energies) as it makes no sense to sense those
or can you imagine Tobirama being able to tell how much physical energy you have left without seeing you? he can only judge so from sensing chakra as a whole
I think it was more about seeing that Naruto can go into SM instantly&effortlessly and doesn't have any body modifications in SM just like Hashirama
hinting that Hashirama also had unperfected SM and it could have been perceived at first sight
There is so much unexplained but yeah i agree that trait is equal however how it's gathered, if summons gives you a different chakra signature so that your sage mode would be frog like. Or if you take Juugo's example, every transformation from different person is akin (dark skin, monster-like) probably induced by Juugo's enzymes, but also mutate differently on person to person.
But he sensed his chakra before the sage mode. So he has a measurable reference if his chakra balances are equilibrated or not.
I think the body modification occurs when you surpass the equilibrium, not otherwise. So absorbing low level of natural energy should be not enough for you to modify your body. That's why i think Minato's sage mode is not perfected in an strict sense. He doesn't have body imperfections but he can't build it up fast nor maintain it as long as even um perfected Sage modes like Jiraiya. There is a myriad of possibilities.
Tobirama never compared Hashi's SM with Naruto's , he just felt that fighting alongside both of them gave him the same feeling.
Stronger chakra = stronger senjutsu . Remember, body chakra + NE = Senjutsu.
Kurama chakra is much more potent than Hashi's, so when it is mixed with NE , it produces a stronger Senjutsu chakra than what Hashi's SM provided.
With the Six paths chakra being the strongest, makes the Six paths Senjutsu the pinnacle of Senjutsu power .
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