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HoU Section Rules & User Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki Archives' started by Rinoa, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. hannah will not come back.

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    What sense does that make? Because people aren't nice? This is a public forum, no one is nice here.
    Also, just because some people are too sensitive you should not allow their self-victimization to run this forum.
    Pairing threads are half the fun in HoU. They are.
    You destroyed them because some sensitive little girl couldn't stop squealing and never mastered the ability of NOT READING what disturbs her period induced fragile feelings. Or to paraphrase, she fails at SKIPPING what disturbs her. Yet she is a little girl, skipping should be her thing.
    That lying little bitch. :notrust

    Or to compare your ridiculous actions to something just as stupid... People kill with them, ban all knives!
    People talk bad things, ban words!
    People fight on them, ban the streets! Let's all float in the air for a while...

    Makes. No. Sense.
     
  2. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    how about making character bashing punishable purely for pairing discussion? the anger and hatred and stuff stem from someone being personally insulted, which can be simply indirectly through a character. I agree with hannah that this sort of compensation is bad and taking away from a huge, possibly largest, avenue of discussion
     
  3. hannah will not come back.

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    I would disagree with this solution. :hmm Anyone can interpret anything as bashing and it would be bad to sit on mods' heads.
    They don't need a larger army of whiny spineless idiots.

    You see how cowardly they react to the army they have now.

    I think people should be able to bash any character they want if they follow reasonable forum rules like: no spam, spoilers, etc.
    They already do so actually. The fact that it is a part of a pairing debate does not change anything.

    HoU was fine the way it was before. Now it's restricted and thus grown more and more boring.

    Debating pairings with rules! xD
    What's next? Wiping your ass with rules?

    Pairing debates are brain junk food. To some they are invisible, to some boring, some pointless, others entertaining and to retards, a reason to cry and complain to moderators.
    But ultimately trying to regulate them is as if you are giving validity to something that does not deserve it.
    And as mean as I know I am being, this is not meant to insult, but state facts. Pairing debates go on because they require very little fact based deductive reasoning. They should not be treated as if this is not so.
    And they should not be spoiling the remaining part of pairing related entertainment for the rest of us.

    This forum need a new rule:
    Spine and brain, or GTFO.
     
  4. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    I don't think telling people to grow a spine is the answer. The basis of pairing preferences is projection; choosing an idealized relationship between characters and living vicariously through them. So basically an insult to a character functions the same as an insult to a person themself, why is why personally attacking a poster is unallowed. Because it acts as a trigger and you know the rest of the story.
     
  5. Jena E. Pluribus Anus

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    I'm sorry, but if you can't handle someone talking smack about a character or a pairing (to the point where it triggers you) then you need to avoid fandoms altogether or take a break from the internet.

    People are going to like and dislike different things and people are going to say bad things about stuff you like. That's just how the world works. Your sense of identity shouldn't be so entwined with a character or a pairing that you can't stand someone insulting it, that's just ridiculous.

    Plus that easily gets into slippery slope territory. If you ban insults directed at a character/pairing, what constitutes "offensive"? If people perceive criticism of a character/pairing as a personal insult, then it can turn into some kindergarden nonsense where everyone has to tiptoe around each other and say nothing mean or negative ever.

    Insulting a character is not the same thing as insulting someone directly. You're attacking someone fictional. While I think that people should phrase their criticisms better than "Fuck Character X, s/he's an asshole dickbag cunt," it should still be allowed. If praising a character/pairing is ok, then dissing one is too.

    EDIT: Note, when I say "you" I don't mean you specifically Let'sFightingLove. I mean "you" as in the general audience/whoever is reading this. English doesn't have a good pronoun for that, unfortunately.
     
  6. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    I...

    ...agree!?

    On a separate matter...

    I am vocalizing it here and now. The Big 3 pairing thread is hypocritical. Now, if IIRC, the reasons SasuKarin and SasuNaru were excluded because they were not plausible...but the former, despite my personal thoughts on it, is back on the table so to speak; they should have a fair opportunity to make their case (and have it torn down...) as the "Big 3" do. Also I often see the matter of Sasuke and Naruto's relationship often being mentioned to be torn down in defense of another one, either that is cracked down on more, or you allow its fans the opportunity to defend such attacks. I always thought the excision of those two pairings was dumb to begin with, as it only seem to be in response to one particular group involved in the debate, and I feel it was a mistake to listen to those demands.
     
  7. hannah will not come back.

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    And growing a spine means to remove the trigger. That means...
    Grow a spine or GTFO the internet all together. How do you even turn on your computer genious? (Not you Let'sFightingLove xD)
    If anything, people should figure out a way to make those whiny little b****es illegal. Maybe mods should punish them for "unreasonable flagging".
    "My feelings are hurt" is NOT a reason and it never was.
    If we let that be a reason to restrict others' freedoms of speech, then we get... Well most of USA. :giogio
    And please don't tell me that's an organisation you want to model anything after.
    Again I don't agree with destroying whiners, of course. They have a right to whine, but not to moderators. Their right to wine does not precede anyone's right to bash or praise.

    The only remaining "issue" is: It gets out of control...
    Oh god forbid a forum topic gets a lot of replies. :quite
    Like I said, little girls have skipping powers. They need to use them. :amuse
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  8. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    you can flatter to ungodly extents but of course you can't fuck someone off or you'll be banned. what do you call it, a double standard or a convention taking all things into account? also insulting a character is the same as a personal insult as the current situation proves. people are extremely emotionally invested- there can only be one explanation, it affects them personally. also snide/indirect comments are easily perceivable.

    'my feelings are hurt' is maybe not a reason but a natural reaction to something perceived as personally threatening. also freedom of rights I agree with you, which is why I don't think my answer is perfect, but it is addressing the underlying cause or root of the problem.
     
  9. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    Sounds more like their own problem they need to sort out. I've seen it in the past and recently, a lot of people do take personally what is directed towards their favored character, but the last thing one should do is continue down this road of indulging in their victimization.
     
  10. hannah will not come back.

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    Oh do not worry. By all means I agree with you that is the cause of the problem.

    Well part of the cause.
    The other part would be the "kind" person who indulged this useless and unreasonable "natural reaction".
     
  11. Jena E. Pluribus Anus

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    I think people should be able to tell each other to fuck off, but that's a different issue.

    The internet doesn't exist to hold people's hands, though. And speaking as someone whose been involved in the whole shipping/fandom scene for close to a decade now*, the pairing debates on NF (even when they get out of control) are absolutely tame in comparison to debates elsewhere. NF coddles its users enough as it is. Adding some ridiculous rule that you can't be negative against a character/pairing is just stupid. Go to an FC if you don't want to hear people insult something.

    So, again, if someone is so wrapped up in a character/pairing that they get emotional every time someone insults it, internet debates really aren't the place for them. It's also not healthy to be that defensive over something. It's one thing to identify with and love a character and dislike when people insult them, it's another thing to be triggered to an emotional breaking point when people insult them.

    It would also render debates pretty much moot if "snide/indirect comments" wouldn't be allowed either. If you can't say anything even remotely negative about something, then everyone is just praising things endlessly and it's no longer a debate.

    * as depressing as it is to admit that I've been involved with this shit for that long
     
  12. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    why would it be the 'kind' persons fault and who is the kind person, can you elaborate? also i don't think this particularly applies to a select few, rather to everyone who cares about pairings. Like I said, it is the basis, the same reason you like pairings is the same reason you will take offense to these direct insults to characters/indirect insult to yourself. i'm of the opinion that If I insulted what pairing you support you'd take personal offense.
     
  13. hannah will not come back.

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    That is irony, because the moderator who would perceive themselves as "kind" for their stupid decision, is in reality anything but, for the reasons I gave you above.

    And I would not take personal offense at someone bashing a pairing I like. I would not get mad. I would not care.
    But then again, I don't have an intellectual and emotional development of a 13-year-old.
    Again not just insulting but stating the facts. Part of growing up is reaching an ability to keep your emotions in check and to learn to tell the difference from fiction and reality.

    And if you think moderating a forum (or anything in this world really) should be done while conforming to immature whiny screams of children, instead of turning to people who have know how to use logic and reason, then you have a really lousy decision-making ability.

    Do I really need to repeat things I already wrote?

    I agree emotional investment of a child (not child in age, but in mind-or both) is the cause for all this idiocy.
    But it is not a justification. There is NO sane justification for this.
    Drop the empathy. It's not a valid argument here.

    If you're even debating at all, which I'm not sure... :hmm
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  14. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    then part of growing up would not be investing your time in a fictional pairing. perhaps the cause of this is a lack of maturity, which would tie in with what we've seen. and isn't it an adults job to remedy the cry of a child? also not justification for what exactly? what I'm getting is that it's stupid for your knee to jerk when a doctor hits it with that mini mallet thing?
     
  15. hannah will not come back.

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    You can invest it in digging a ditch for all I care. There is no specific set of actions that make you mature.
    The way you perceive things around you, regardless of what you are doing, makes you mature or immature. You can be on a Ferris Wheel, but your reasons for being on one and how you behave in the situation is what determines whether you are actually a child.


    Investing a time in a fictional pairing is immature depending on how you invest said time. Not by the mere fact you are investing it.

    no, adults must first discipline the child and teach it to shut up, before rewarding their behavior and showing kindness. Otherwise you get a self righteous brat on your hands.

    Do you distingush between concepts "justification" and "causation"?
     
  16. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    using pairings as a substitute for actual meaningful relationships seems extremely immature to me.

    your reasons for being there are exactly the cause of you being there aren't they?


    it doesn't depend on how you invest it, the mere fact you are investing in it is indicative of emotionally compensatory measures.[/quote]



    i agree completely, you've got to have the right balance. but I feel your balance leans too much on one side.


    come again? Can I ask exactly what you're talking about, I'm a bit confused
     
  17. Arya Stark .

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    couldn't you find another description for your problems?
     
  18. Kenneth

    I AM THE PANTS

    Administrator

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    We can't make it larger or it'll stretch the front page.
    When the global forum rules prohibit flaming and baiting, and the rules in the pairing thread merely expand upon what constitutes as flaming and baiting, what exactly is it that doesn't make sense?

    We literally have the most basic of rules in there. No flaming, no spamming, no spoilers without tagging them. Then we have the obvious rules for that thread only, which are: not using fanfiction or fanart to prove anything. Not using personal experiences to prove anything. How does that not make sense?


    That was discussed before (in Q&A). It didn't... Go very well.
    :geg Cowardly? Really now.

    That's correct, it's done pretty frequently in certain sections. Library, for example.

    >implying rules didn't exist before
    >implying flaming/baiting etc were not global rules in 2010, when you joined

    Did you quantum leap here from an alternative NF?

    Good god, a troublesome thread being regulated to prevent major shitstorms from happening, what will those crazy mods think of next, right?

    If you want to debate about pairings like there's no tomorrow, go to Tumblr.

    Kay. I wish everyone would not care about much of the bashing and flaming like you do. Unfortunately, that's not the reality we live in.
    I agree. It's being discussed.
     
  19. hannah will not come back.

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    Do we agree on this definition on flaiming/baiting, Kenneth?

    And second question: What is your job as the moderator in order to handle flaming/baiting?
     
  20. Kenneth

    I AM THE PANTS

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    Yes, though all you are proving right now is that you're able to use google.

    Deletion of the post. On a second offense, deletion of the post and handing out a warning. More offenses cause a ban to happen, which will scale every time the offense happens again after the first ban has expired.

    Discussing what happened and trying to find a solution or offering advice to the member that flamed or baited is also something I tend to do.
     
  21. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    was it only discussed kenneth or actually implemented?
     
  22. Kenneth

    I AM THE PANTS

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    It wasn't implemented. Take a look if you want to~ (http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=908724)

    While the title mentions "offensive slurs", the post does talk about character bashing.
     
  23. hannah will not come back.

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    Of course you have basic rules like no flaming and spamming or spoilers. I was not talking about those rules they are desired.
    As for the second set: "not using fanfiction or fanart to prove anything. Not using personal experiences to prove anything. "

    Using what then? A subjective interpretation of a manga? That's just as ridiculous as using a fanfiction! :facepalm
    Face it, pairing debates make no sense. Because if they did make sense there would be nothing up for discussion.

    Yet you not only isolate them and force us to only have them as a form of pairing related topics, but you set rules that are suppose to make anything posted "credible".

    Look. I am not saying we should forbid pairing discussions. Merely that your second set of rules "that build upon..." make as much sense as pairing debates.

    I don't have a problem with those rules. I was not talking about them when I said it makes no sense. Because I don't care about them.
    What I have a problem with is the fact that you set them as if to give the thread value and credibility and ON TOP OF ALL THIS, you make it the only thread we are allowed to enter when it comes to pairings.



    I'm apologize Kenneth. I insulted forgetting you're a single person, not an idea I'm addressing.


    I did not imply either.

    1st I don't want to debate pairings.
    2nd I mock your rules, not the original rules of NF. Those make sense. The "build upon" is silly. Not because it is illogical, but because it implies there is logic in the topic it describes.



    So what is the answer? Conform to every cry? Every discomfort?
    Limit topics I am allowed to post, things I am allowed to say and basically forbid me from using this forum the way it was originally meant to be used, because not everyone has a brain?
    Come on Kenneth, you can back up your choice with something better than that can't you? :giogio


    Please understand I am not here to discuss pairing debates. (For which I do not care in the first place.)
    I am here to discuss all pairing threads in general. The fact that you forbade us from posting them outside your boring topics even if we are not interested in debating.
    The fact that you close down threads if people flame and bait on them, instead of modding fairly and dealing with the people themselves.
    The fact that you put under your control an entire section of HoU because you people get hurtful. By that logic, why don't you just make entire NF into one big topic you can control, so no sensitive spineless little child is ever hurt by something people might say here?


    So basically what you are telling me even though you are completely clear on definition of flaming and even though your job is to deal with members and posts in question and nothing more.

    You choose to delete ALL pairing threads that anyone ever creates and you force people to use only two topics with new rules made by you, so you can control them with less effort?

    Don't you see what is wrong in this picture? :giogio

    Also you mentioned to go to Lybrary. Library says to go to HoU if you want to post anything pairing related. :notrust
     
  24. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    'I don't care about pairings' Isn't that what every pairing fan starts off with in their thesis?
     
  25. hannah will not come back.

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    I never said that.

    Edit: And I forgot to mention Kenneth. I was also talking about mere existence of those two topics. Not just their rules.
    If people want to chop up their debates in different topics that don't always cover everything, why let crybaby complaints stop those debaters?

    I know it's harder to mod... But isn't that kind of point of having a moderator? To oversee the forum?
    Not shape the forum by himself and then force his wishes upon others, because just overseeing is not as good anymore?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  26. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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  27. Kenneth

    I AM THE PANTS

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    What does the first part have to do with the second part? Also, you asked me how I deal with flaming, you didn't ask me what my "job" as a moderator is so would you kindly... Not throw in assumptions like "nothing more"?

    I mentioned "go to Tumblr if you want to debate without restrictions". To my knowledge, Tumblr is an entirely different website.

    Because having 454635 threads around, about the same topic, would give us a ton of work, a ton of threads (and duplicate threads aren't allowed in a lot of sections either, so what are you even arguing about) to look after and it would result in more flaming/baiting. It makes things easier for us. If you feel the need to create a thread about a pairing, go ahead and post the OP in the pairing thread. The result will be the same.

    Who in their right mind would ever use fanart or fanfiction to prove something about a pairing? If you want to discuss a pairing from a manga, then you'll use the evidence found in the manga. The idea of allowing fanfiction and fanart to be used as actual proof of anything in the manga is what's ridiculous.

    Personal experiences have nothing to do with the manga either, though, I can agree that those may be used as a way to clarify certain arguments. I do not delete arguments that successfully use these.


    Irrelevant.

    What is the difference to you? You get to discuss pairings and pseudo threads in there, we have less threads to monitor.


    To be clear, you believe fanfiction and fanart are valid arguments/proof in a debate that's about what will happen in this manga?

    That's like using a game of Dungeons and Dragons to prove Gimli will end up with Gandalf at the end of LOTR. They are irrelevant, they add nothing besides a few chuckles to the grand scheme of pairing things. If you're so eager to debate about the possibility of a pairing becoming canon, then you will use canon material to prove your claims.


    Assumptions aren't going to do much here. The rules are there because that thread has been problematic for years now, and we had to remind people about the rules every few posts. Think of it as a huge disclaimer. The second set of rules came into being when I wasn't around, so there's not much I can say about why they were added, though it should be obvious. You'll have to wait for Rinoa or Hiro.





    That's okay.

    You mean the ones about fanart etc? Check the above paragraph.

    Where do you see me doing this? In fact, where do you see any mod doing this? You are venturing into a territory that you don't know of, right now, or you're at least willfully blind about what we do.

    Notice how one of the global and most common rules (on pretty much every forum) also states that duplicate threads are not allowed. Then think about how your "limit" on topics you're allowed to post doesn't actually exist because you can still discuss the pairing. Nothing has changed except the fact that you have to stick to one thread. The limit you speak of is self-imposed.

    Forbid? This is not the only section on this forum. If you want to use fanart and fanfiction as evidence, go to the fanclubs, find the appropriate fanclub, and knock yourself out.


    I have, can, and do.


    You effectively just want to return to the days where pairing threads sprouted out of the ground in a scary pace, the days when moderators would have to spend hours just because a couple of people wanted to create the umpteenth thread about SasuSaku, NaruSaku, NaruHina. No. We do not conform to every whim and whine, tear, cry, and demand, as you previously suggested we do. That's why we make things easier for us while still allowing you to talk about those pairings, albeit in a single thread.

    If we were the evil dictators that you say we are, the freedom-snatching mods that prevent you from talking about a topic, we would shut those threads down and abolish any talk about pairings.

    The thread was closed down once, and it was after 3 days of constant baiting and flaming. We have been very patient and eventually, allowed people to post in it again.

    We're mods, HoU section mods. You'd think that yes, we should have this section under control. But you're making it look as if we're oppressors while all we did is put all of the pairing talk in one thread. You are pretty much arguing that the rules which have done fine work, are to be removed so that the section can once again become a chaotic nest of dupe bait threads.

    No.

    You're exaggerating a whole lot in here. Stop that. It's like you truly believe we're after your freedom while we go out of our way to make sure that every topic remains open to talk about. The rules are there because they're needed, not because we enjoy adding more. It complicates things for us as well.

    I have been for the idea of merging both those pairing threads so all things can be covered. I have been for the idea of adding two more pairings, at the very least, to this "big 3" thread.

    Again, I was not around when these changes were made or when these rules were added. I'm giving you an explanation of why I believe they exist.

    And you think that it's fun to oversee the forum. That we're machines, or scripts that run in the background. That we exist outside of time. That efficiency should be sacrificed. We're humans too, Hannah. Try to keep that in mind.

    Forcing what wishes... You're being incredibly obnoxious right now. We don't force wishes upon anybody by adding rules that prohibit using fanart as proof, because fanart is NOT proof. Fanfiction is NOT proof. It proves absolutely nothing. Personal experiences are NOT proof. They are not hints, they are not canon, they are unofficial and should not be used in a discussion that's all about official matters. You do not go into the Court as a lawyer, to argue about one's sentence, holding a copy of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban while nonchalantly throwing a few lines from the book to prove your client's innocence. This is what you're trying to do.

    Those two topics exist because duplicate threads of duplicate threads of duplicate threads ad infinitum, and the immense amount of work that came with them, was an incredibly inefficient way of moderating.

    It's that simple, Hannah.
     
  28. hannah will not come back.

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    Fine, you are all powerful? :huh

    Why would I go to Tumblr?

    No it will not. Forming and editing a OP of a thread is not the same as making a post in a very boring and a pointless topic.


    That's my point. You choose what evidence is in the manga. You interpret what you like how you like to advocate what you feel.
    That's basically core of every pairing debate and it makes as much sense as using fanart.

    I don't care.


    Very relevant for someone who wants to post a pairing related thread and NOT debate on them.


    You seriously don't know the difference??? :huh
    I do not want to discuss pairings and provide "evidence" that something WILL happen. Yet your topics are meant for just that.
    For example I had a thread "Pairing popularity thread" with a big poll. Would that work as a post in a paring debate topic? :notrust
    Also if someone were tho chop up the discussion and post a thread just asking something like "Which Naruto girl would be the best cook for Choji?", they should be able to do so. A part of the topic in a separate thread has a purpose. When you stuff it all together it is just one big blob of lame, based on OP you made.


    No. I believe that no argument is valid. They are all worthless. And interpretation of manga "evidence" is as worthwhile as fanart, or even "feeelings", or colors.... -_-
    It's not fact based deductive reasoning. It is interpretation based bullshit.
    But each their own.

    You skim trough my text don't you? You have no idea what I wrote? :notrust
    Like talking to a wall. :oh

    I. Don't. Care.

    How is this not sinking in yet? :nuts


    No, not ones about fanart. :facepalm

    Enlighten me about this dark territory, please.
    When I say limits on what I can post, I do not deny rules of NF that make sense. First original rules that were here before your topics.
    Stuffing everything into one topic is not one of those rules.
    Forbidding any new pairing thread is not one of those rules.

    You are not protecting NF and making things simpler.
    You are protecting yourself and making things boring.




    Fine, make debates in a single thread. But you delete all pairing topics. Not just debates.
    Why?
    Because people start debating on non-debate topics.
    That is not the fault of members who don't debate. That is not the fault of the OP. But you do not mod. You do not discriminate. You just delete.
    If you say it's hard to monitor debaters so you need them for your debate topic, fine. Make the debate topic. That has as much sense in it as dividing the NF in subsections.
    But not everything pairing related is a pairing debate. And if you actually read the text I write, you'd respond to this part.

    Make it fair. Not easy for moderators.
    If the rules of NF allow people to post certain topics and don't allow double posting. Handle it fairly. Delete the double posts and punish the double posters.
    Not punish the entire HoU. Not delete all threads.

    You did.
    You left us only the debates. I repeat. They suck.

    One thread? How about half the threads?

    And what you are basically saying. We are HoU section mods. We don't want to mod HoU. We want to make everyone post in one topic.
    Stop making us look bad. :notrust

    Thank you for clarifying my mistake. Here I thought you did it for the users. But really you did it for yourselves.


    I still don't care about those threads. They are for debates.

    Again, I was not around when these changes were made or when these rules were added. I'm giving you an explanation of why I believe they exist.

    So I should just forget the dysfunctional conditions you created because you are human... That's a low. Appealing to my sympathy, while refusing work you originally took on.


    And this is inefficient too.
    I did not say you force your wishes upon users by adding some silly fan art rule.
    I said you are enforcing your wishes by refusing to let people to post topics.
    Make stronger rules for duplicates. Ban, kick out. Punish the culprits, not the community.

    I am sorry modding is so hard for you, but not modding is hard for the rest of HoU. So if you don't want to mod, just give the job to someone who wants to do it as hard as it use to be.
     
  29. Let'sFightingLove Banned

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    hannah you are one of the most self-important, bitchiest people ever; the amount of times you use 'I' in your posts is astounding- I kind of like it.
     
  30. hannah will not come back.

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    I am here talking about what I think is wrong. Using the word "I" serves the purpose of standing in front of the things I say.
    I don't want hide behind "we" or something general like "it should", as if I'm a little child.

    And if you consider me bitchy for taking responsibility for my own words.. Fine.
    It's not up to me to redefine concepts in your head.
    Use google.
     

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