Discussion in 'Manga/Anime Battledome' started by Dark Evangel, Dec 25, 2010.
Adult Gon against current Luffy.
Who wins this?
Child Gon was hitting with hundreds of thousands tons-force by the Chimera Ant Arc: while it's barely comparable to even base Luffy prior to the timeskip, Adult Gon got an even larger boost in power (going from lower mid-tier to pretty much top-tier), and is physically superior to Yupi by a large margin, who in turn is at least physically stronger than pre-skip Luffy via calcs (IIRC).
Luffy's resistance to blunt trauma is going to come in majorly handy.
Adult Gon One-shotted a Pittou
Current Luffy a Pacifista
Close match, however Luffys resistance to blunt damage gives him this one (also his CoA).
Well, I would think that Gon's nen would bypass Luffy's defense, since it's more like 'shock' damage than directly blunt, but IDK.
Luffy would probably win, considering nothing impressive from Pitou was ever shown that would even put him against EoPre-timeskip luffy.
hard choice, I think its pretty even for now can't say for sure yet.
Not really. Luffy one-shots him, he (Gon, Adult or child) never tanked anything that a pacifista couldn't.
And Luffy's blund-damage resistance pretty much makes Gon's attacks worthless.
Adult Gon rivals pre-Rose Meruem by Pitou's own calculations.
Even post-timeskip Luffy is going to be pushed pretty badly, he's certainly not at a state where he can one-shot Meruem-level fighters
So the only thing going for Gon, is one statement that vaguely confirms his strength?
It was also claimed by someone that Pitou possibly could have been a match for Netero. Look how that turned out.
That was Netero himself, and prior to him "getting warmed-up" via the personal genoicide of hundreds of Chimera Ants in Nova's dimension room.
A few hundred fodder chimera ants made the difference between him and Pitou?
I'm not trying to disprove this, just trying to debate off what we've been given, and from HxH I'm kinda skeptical going purely by character statements. (Like the one that said that Cheetu wasn't even sound speed when lower characters then him are probably hypersonic)
I'd say it was Netero simply having to prepare himself for killing instinct (he's normally quite the nice fellow, but the Meruem fight demonstrates that he will be very bloodthirsty and aggressive in combat if need be), but also literally needing to flex his muscles around in his old age before he went out and kicked some ass
What? It wasn't specified.
Nice match up but im leaning more towards Gon
Its always off.
Gon take this.
Gon only has like 1 attack that will even hurt Luffy, Luffy is winning eventually.
Doesn't mean anything you think it means.
Adult Gon takes this. He blitzed Pitou, then twoshotted him like fodder. He also impaled Pitou's body with his own arm, so he'd tear through Luffy as well.
Then there's also the fact that Adult Gon was said to be capable of defeating pre-powerup Meruem who tanked tons of Netero's hilbusting Hyakushiki Kannon attacks without a scratch. He also tanked his ultimate attack, Hyakushiki Zero. The same Meruem then went on to survive the Rose point blank which is leagues above anything Luffy can produce.
Last time I looked, Luffy's durability and destructive power was cityblocklevel+. That gets him nowhere against Pitou, Meruem or Adult Gon.
Please. Luffy would one shot Pitou.
Since when was Pitou as durable as pacifista?
Pitou is only powerful with power-scaling, if we assume the royal guards are just a few notches below Meruem. However he doesn't have any feats that back that up, nor does Pitou have any feats of him being able to take on Netero.
And it should follow, that Gon (adult or child) is no-where near Meruem until he shows to be so.
Luffy one shots him.
I sense serious underestimation of the HxH side and overestimation of Luffy. Even if this is post-timeskip Luffy and people are ecstatic about him being stronger, he hasn't shown much of feats so far. Being capable of oneshotting a slow ass Pacifista doesn't mean he would beat Nef.
Luffy still isn't anywhere near faster than X who Adult Gon horrendously X to hell and back. Gon will have an even easier time hitting him. Then there's the fact that his best attack, Elephant Gun, has a snowballs chance in hell of hitting him because it requires several seconds of preptime. Preptime which he won't have against someone who is faster than he is anyway.
As Luffy hasn't shown increased durability feats so far, his durability is still cityblocklevel+ until further notice. Cityblocklevel+ durability isn't going to cut it against someone whose power is a threat to someone that can survive a nuke that killed 120000+ people when it exploded in a city. When has Luffy last tanked an explosion of X power? Even after the timeskip Luffy has to dodge building level X laser explosions to safe his life.
Nef did show some incredible feats:
- his nen is so monstrously huge that it encompasses several kilometers
- having enough physical to jump several kilometers instantly
- cutting trough Kaito and Adult Gons limbs with his claws
- having a metal like body that can withstand hits from Kaito who has a cityblockbusting attack, Netero who has a hillbusting+ attack and the strongest person in the HxHverse the Chimera Ant King of all people.
- surviving hits from Adult Gun and then continuing to fight even after having his head chopped off.
Luffy's not going to beat him with what he's shown.
Lol no. Luffy calling a Pacifista laser slow easily puts him on the same level as Pitou speed-wise I'm afraid. So I really don't know why you're referring to the Pacifista's speed itself when it isn't relevant in this instance. Calling Mach 15 slow is by no means something you can just throw out of the window. I don't think you actually understand that one punch, just ONE punch from Luffy would take Pitou's head off. Do you? Not to mention this punch is one of his fastest attacks; Jet Pistol. It's not Elephant Gun, he doesn't need Elephant Gun because a Jet Pistol or two is sufficient in this case. The speed of the Pacifista isn't the reason the feat is so impressive, it's the durability of the Pacifista. The Pacifista is FAR more durable than Pitou.
Again, so? This means nothing here.
They're human flesh. Luffy pre-skip was tanking Rankakyu's, so I really don't see how Pitou is taking him out here at all. Or blitzing him for that matter especially with Luffy's pre-cognition, let's think realistically here Danchou.
Can I see this cityblockbusting attack from Kaito? Netero didn't hit him 99 times. The 99 hits together make 1 hillbuster. The King wasn't serious, and furthermore, the King hasn't shown offensive power on Luffy's level pre-nuke.
Nothing to hundreds of Pacifista busters is it.
Yes he is.
Luffy calls the laser slow because the laser can't tag him. That doesn't mean he can actually move faster than the laser. Only if he outruns the laser would that line of reasoning be valid. You can't honestly believe that Luffy moves faster than the lasers that Kizaru shoots from his fingers now.
I dare you to post ONE instance in which Luffy actually punched anyones head off. Saying Luffy can punch his head off is just you being facetious. He's not capable of beating Pitou until he shows more power than breaking through the Pacifista's cityblockbusting durability. Cityblockbusting isn't cutting it here.
That amount of aura is more than enough to guard against cityblockbusting+ attacks.
It doesn't? When is the last time Luffy ever covered several kilometers in an instant? I'd like to see a scan.
Just human flesh? When one of Reiza's volleyballs bounced off Gons body in Greed Island, it encased itself into several meters of solid rock/metal yet it merely left a superficial mark on Gons head. X X X X
Adult Gon is literally decades ahead of that and Pitou still sliced his arm clean off.
And yeah, while Netero didn't hit him with his Hyakushiki 99 Palms, Nef was still completely unphazed by his One Palm attack which is enough to X someone through several meters of rock. Likewise the fact that the King wasn't using his full power to kill Pitou still doesn't detract from the fact that him shrugging off a X from the strongest person in HxH with just a bloody lip is a serious feat. Except for the other Royal Guards everyone else he hit was pasted into unrecognizable chunks of meat. A X from the King leaves a large hole in solid rock so that's no surprise.
This shows even powerful hunters have to exert some effort to even damage Pitou yet Gon onshot him.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. As much as I know you wish for it, we haven't and won't ever see Luffy launching a gattling gun that destroys hundreds of Pacifista's even at the end of the series. After their introduction the Pacifistas were busy decimating Whitebeards forces. Even the Whitebeard Pirates and their New World Captains are seen ganging up to take out just one Pacifista.
Until we actually see Luffy oneshotting hundreds of Pacifista, we only know that Luffy can oneshot a Pacifista. Whooptydoo, so can Adult Gon. It took an attack of X magnitude to finish Pitou off for good even after he beheaded him. Gon is packing enough power to defeat the same pre-powerup Meruem that survived the Rose nuke.
X. That power difference means Adult Gon would murk Luffy in one hit. He also still faster than Luffy based on how he blitzed Pitou. Luffy has improved, but it's not enough to be put on the same tier as Adult Gon.
For any fictional attack, size =/= destructive power: unless you're seriously suggesting a ki blast from a Part II Dragon Ball fighter couldn't merk Meruem in a single shot, or that Aizen slashing through Captain-class shinigami means that he only has the effective power to slice through a wall?
Meruem clearly used his fist to create that hole, not his tail: the fact that the latter appendage can harm Royal Guards suggests that it does pack a similar punch, as it were, but that's reverse logic to what you're suggesting Danchou.
...I seriously hope you're not suggesting that the shown feat for Kaito constitutes a cityblock-busting attack in any sense of the word: for one thing, it doesn't even match the minimum range-of-effect required (200x100 metres), and it's done out in the open (a few thin trees at most), leaving virtually no damage to the ground and only harming fodder Chimera Ants with unknown durability levels.
I personally think your analysis of the Luffy laser feat is incorrect, but I don't have the sufficient patience to argue that point right now, so I'll leave it at that.
And that Reiza feat is extremely vague: you couldn't even gather centimetres of penetration from that angle and distance.
Yes it does, what the fuck are you talking about? Zoro dodged the laser pre-skip.
The Pacifista's lasers are not as fast as the lasers Kizaru shoots from his fingers. Top tiers haven't even dodged those. His finger lasers are lightspeed until disproved. The Pacifista's clearly are not.
So you want me to post up a scan of Luffy punching someone's head off in a manga where the author purposely makes it so that such gory things never occur? The only reason Luffy's punches haven't taken off heads is because Oda won't let it happen. If Luffy was to even punch Kuro in his current state, it wouldn't do any more than knock Kuro out-cold, when in actuality, someone with building level durability like Kuro should get his whole body turned into mush just for being on the receiving end of one of those Pacifista busters. The fact that you would actually use artistic preference as a way to defend Pitou in this match is hilarious. Luffy has definitely shown the required power to take Pitou's head clean off his neck.
Doesn't need to. G2 focuses on crossing short distances at high speed. Crossing large distances doesn't automatically make you faster than someone who dodges lasers with ease. It just shows you can maintain that speed over a larger distance. Luffy can easily hang with Pitou in the field. As a matter of fact, calculations show that Luffy is straight-up faster than Pitou.
Yes. And? Arlong's teeth could crush cannonballs. Didn't do much to Luffy's arm. Zoro could cut steel in Arabasta, Rankakyu >>> Zoro's Arabasta level slashes. Luffy tanked Rankakyu. We're dealing with cutting force here, from what we have seen of Pitou, it has shown nothing that points towards it being superior to Rankakyu in cutting power, so it isn't cutting Luffy.
We're dealing with cutting force here. That isn't a cutting force durability feat.
That's nothing to Luffy's current Jet Pistol buddy.
Nothing to Jet Pistol, again. Pitou gets pasted.
What the hell? All Gattling Gun is, is hundreds of Pistols. That's all it is. If one punch can take down a Pacifista, a barrage of them can take down several Pacifista's. It's logic if anything. Current Luffy is WAAAAAAY stronger than those fodder New World Pirates. No point comparing Luffy to fodder if he's stronger. No established Whitebeard Pirates even encountered Pacifista, so only god knows what you're on about now.
No. We know that one punch can one shot a Pacifista and that Luffy can launch hundreds in quick succession. We also know Pitou has no durability feats that put him on the same level as a Pacifista. So he gets one shotted.
So because Luffy didn't want to get hit, he now has small building level durability? Those laser explosions are deadly because of the heat. They melt steel. He's not doing his best to dodge anything. He flipped backwards in style with a bag full of food on his back. He's not "doing his best" at all.
Since when have explosions been anything to Luffy?
Never I say. Stop trying to downgrade Luffy durability wise so Pitou and Gon actually stand a chance against him. Gon hasn't shown small island splitting level power physically so he can't even damage Luffy for starters, the same goes for Pitou cutting power wise. And I'm only really discussing Pitou here. Luffy would oneshot Pitou, there's nothing to debate there.
Personally, I wouldn't say that a concentrated Jet Pistol only equates to one generic stroke of a Jet Gatling, but otherwise I pretty much agree with GM on this one
I think you'll need to demonstrate far better feats or calcs for the HxH side Danchou, in order to match at least the destructive capacity/physical strength/physical durability of Luffy.
Danchou, what are pitou durability and tanking feats? I don't recall many of them. You mentioned Meruem in your first post alongside pitou, but c'mon, Meruem actually has outrageous durability feats, pitou has nothing of the sort...
You're bringing up a Px's speed to try to discredit Luffy?
Px don't dodge,they tank and Luffy was always able to hit them.
So you can't actually prove Gon is faster than Luffy other than saying Gon is faster than Pitou? Gon got hit by Pitou by last time I checked. We really have no idea how Pitou's and Gon's speed compares.
Has Gon? Was Gon even cityblock level beforehand?
Gon was interpreted as a threat by Pitou.
Thats an asspull of a powerscale to say Gon is anywhere near the level of that nuke in power. Especially when the King was hit once by that nuke and would have died had he not be saved.
A possible threat does not equal one shotting.
Cause dodging moves now means you can't tank them?
Zoro tanked Px blasts even while still hurt from Kuma.
who knows how durable they are.
-metal is nothing to Luffy at this point
-kaito never city blocked, his attack is below Kaku's non-complete spinning attack that is just below a cityblock
-one hit from Netero is not hill busting
That was his special ability, that doesn't mean much when you are using Pitou to powerscale.
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