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'Gaia' scientist James Lovelock: I was 'alarmist' about climate change

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by baconbits, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. baconbits The Optimistic Pessimist

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    Interesting that he finally admitted that he was being an alarmist but also refused to acknowledge that the entire movement is trying to institute legislation based off of what have largely been uneducated guesses.
     
  2. Blue Administrator Administrator

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    Bacon, are you seriously trying to deny climate change

    what the shit dude
     
  3. Roman NO GA FURUERU

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    Yeah. He may not be saying the Earth's climate is changing at the break-neck speed he's been saying, but he's still of the mentality that people have the power to affect Earth's weather and health. At any rate, he still seems to think it falls on humans to "save the planet" when that's a very high and mighty if not arrogant attitude. Humans can't decide how well off the Earth is. The only thing we can do is look after our ecosystem, our way of life, and be mindful of our surroundings. We're as much a part of the Earth as anything, and it will affect us the way we affect our direct surroundings. Nothing more.

    Where has he said he's denying climate change? He's denying that it's happening at the rate the man in the article used to say, but not that it's not happening at all.
     
  4. impersonal Banned

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    Basically, you're saying that some guru, who is only popular due to a theory that has not been accepted by the scientific community ("Gaia") and is not a climatologist, but a "futurologist" and an inventor, changed his mind.

    How is that relevant to the public, informed, scientific debate regarding climate change? The funny thing is that the mass media will publish this bullshit information, creating the illusion that climate change is still a hotly debated issue and that there is no consensus.

    And then anti-science, obscurantist skeptics still complain that the media is on the climate change side.

    Yeah, I'm pretty mad right here.

    Yeah, I'm sure the scientific community cares a lot about what this guy has to say about global warming. I'm sure this is all completely relevant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  5. Mael Well-Known Member

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    ^Yet he had serious influence. Go figure.

    There is merit into admitting to being alarmist (and removing such alarmism), but I'm glad that Lovelock still hasn't completely rescinded his views on climate change. It's real, and very real, and preventative steps should still be taken. However, claiming it'll be Waterworld in 20-50 years is not the way to go about it. I still see zero harm in trying to make things more efficient for the sake of environment and money and Lovelock's influence and now modesty can still do that.
     
  6. Mathias124 Active Member

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    You have to be stupid if you hadnt already realized most the "climate professors" were giving outragously exaggerated numbers.

    Its true that climate change will happen, but if all the scientists calling for it always exaggerate their numbers im not going to listen to them.

    I live in Denmark and for us the global warming will be beneficial of us, i remember reading an article that stated all of scandinavia benefits, especially in the field of agriculture.
     
  7. impersonal Banned

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    It's amusing that everything you post is so incredibly false, every goddamn time. This guy is not a climate scientist. Try looking past the propaganda next time.
     
  8. Mathias124 Active Member

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    Still doesnt alter the fact that i've read lots and lots of them lie about their numbers.

    Nor the fact that he claims lots of climate commentators exaggerate as well.

    Or the fact that they were coming up with numbers well before they knew of the oceans ability to store Co2.

    Or when some scientists thought "maybe with more Co2 in the air the trees will grow more and then consume a little more oxygen".
    A variable nobody had thought of until a few years after Al Gore's scare video which led to this whole craze.

    I only see a shitload of uneducated guesses and alarmist scientists who "forget to mention" that the numbers they claim are worst case scenario
     
  9. Petes12 Active Member

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    that global warming is happening is a fact. scientists all agree, it's about as much a debate as evolution (in other words, only idiots think it's not real). this guy saying "well maybe 80% of us WON'T die in 90 years" doesn't really change that.
     
  10. impersonal Banned

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    I'm really not interested in having a larger debate about climate change with you, Mathias124. I'm satisfied with having shown that you were not able to use critical thinking on this particular story.
     
  11. Mathias124 Active Member

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    Funny coming from a guy named Impersonal.

    Even though he is not a climate scientist he still predicted climate changes and people listened.

    I fail to see how him backing down on his opinion isnt noteworthy

    "By 2100, it predicts it will rise by another 2 to 11.5 degrees"
    And boom goes the dynamite, trying to predict 90 years into the future is nigh impossible yet still they try to scare us
     
  12. Banhammer Banhammer Science

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    So a witch doctor is bad at science
    Go figure

    bacon's terrible thread is terrible
     
  13. Petes12 Active Member

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    grasping at straws that are only there in your own mind
     
  14. baconbits The Optimistic Pessimist

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    I think climates are always fluctuating or changing. I'm not sure if it will have the catostrophic effects that some fear. (Can't tell if you're being serious or not.)

    There isn't really consensus. There is a lot of debate about how much the climate will change and whether the changes will really affect us.

    No need to be. I'm not pretending to have disproven your arguments. I'm just posting a news story because I believe many members of the cafe actually do believe in some of the alarmist theories.

    It is relevant. Read the story and see that many people do care what this man thought and that his thinking was celebrated by many environmentalist organizations around the world. You don't have to like the article but don't pretend it doesn't matter.

    All scientists do not agree that global warming is occurring or occuring at a meaningful rate.
     
  15. Blue Administrator Administrator

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    Oh my god Bacon, there is no debate. None.

    100% ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of scientists who legitimately use the scientific method to perform a climate change study have arrived at the same conclusion: It's happening, and it's happening to the tune of 3 degrees C a century plus or minus 1 degree, and will cause profound changes in global ecology and climate.

    This fruit wasn't a scientist, he was a futurist jackass. Being a conservative, you should know a few things about futurist jackasses, like these idiots who've been predicting we'll run out of oil in the next 10 years every year since 1950.

    "OMG we're all going to burn in a lake of molten rock." is not science and disproving him is like trying to battle a river flood by turning off your garden hose.
     
  16. Petes12 Active Member

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    all real scientists agree bacon.

    graduates of the rob patterson school of theoscience or whatever don't count :maybe
     
  17. erictheking Chopped + Screwed

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    If you're not 'alarmed' about the implications of climate change as described by a consensus of climate scientists, you've got your head up your arsehole. Nothing is in question but your abilities to think critically, at an elementary level.

    Largely the media's fault to be fair..
     
  18. baconbits The Optimistic Pessimist

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    I'm not denying that climates are changing, I just don't think it will have the dramatic effects that some fear. My problem with global warming is that to measure long term trends you have to rely on data that was collected when we didn't really have a reliable system do collect data. In other words if you measure trends from 1900 to 2000 you are relying on thermostats in major cities with no way of knowing what the temperatures over the oceans were.

    So yes, I think that its noteworthy that this man, who is not a leading scientist, is admitting that the facts don't lead to such catastrophie as he predicted earlier, but many people think things like "An Inconvient Truth" are absolute fact.
     
  19. CrazyMoronX Old Man

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    I knew it.

    Global warming is a myth. :C
     
  20. KidTony Bernie Bro (Not Sexist)

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    But what you think doesn't really matter, because you're not a climate scientist.
     
  21. hyakku Active Member

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    Violating my policy of not posting in stupid threads to heartily laugh at the stupidity in this thread.

    "Let's not worry about global warming since it'll benefit Scandinavia!
    Global warming probably won't be that bad!"


    :laugh good way to wake up in the morning. Carry on.
     
  22. Roman NO GA FURUERU

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    I believe everyone should be given an equal opportunity to speak their opinion. If you only want to hear expert opinions on the subject, why even come here? None of us are experts, but we're all here to talk about what we think of certain things. If you don't want to listen to someone who isn't an expert, don't reply to him, don't pay attention to him. That's your choice and there's nothing wrong with that.

    For instance, I stand by what I said earlier and believe it's foolish for a single person or a small group of individuals to think they have power over changing the earth's climate for the better. We can only ever influence our direct surroundings, so it is better to focus on that and urge others to do them same for their own benefit.

    As for global warming, such a thing has been happening since long before the industrial revolution, which is when people were first beginning to develop methods to measure climate changes and fluctuations such that they could be recorded for future reference. How profound is the effect of climate change in the short period we've been able to observe and record? Ice caps have melted on occasion, yes, which says something about the matter, but it hasn't happened several times in succession in recent years as far as I know. If I'm wrong, do feel free to correct me. Seasons have been going into more noticeable extremes lately but how profound has that been on us? There haven't been such major events due to climate changes that show there could be far worse incidents in the near future (say 50 to 100 years).

    My point is that there's no way to tell how great the effects of climate changes will be in the future given the amount of information we've been able to record so far, which is what I think bacon is also trying to say. No one's denying that climate changes are happening and that there will be consequences. It's just a question of how serious the consequences will be, regardless of whether they will be positive or negative.
     
  23. Mael Well-Known Member

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    Ok so where do we pin the Jews to blame on this particular case? :pek
     
  24. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    We're listening to his views, we're just telling him how ignorant they are.
     
  25. Arishem The Final Shape

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    As a personal friend of a department head at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, I've had the chance to pick the brains of top scientists doing serious work, and the consensus in that particular group is that climate change is happening and is anthropogenic in nature. This group included climatologists, physicists, engineers, chemists, biologists, etc. An interesting fact was brought up by a geologist - we are supposed to be at the tail end of an interglacial warming period based upon previous cycles. Things sure as fuck weren't supposed to be getting hotter. Lo and behold, this warming trend coincides with the beginning of the industrial revolution, when we really started to pump carbon into the atmosphere. Hell, the reality is that we were ignorantly terraforming the planet when we first started building cities a millenia ago. At this point, without any major alterations to our behavior, the changes we are going to see will be drastic. Unfortunately, societal inertia pretty much guarantees that this is going to happen, so you guys should just sit back and enjoy the show. Worrying about your non-existent grandchildren is futile since nothing was ever certain anyway. If you're located in the Northern Hemisphere, you might even be able to enjoy the show as the rest of humanity devours itself.
     
  26. Descent of the Lion What 0Fear has always been

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    I laugh when I see how helpless people are when it comes to information.


    "teh scientist all agree derfor it fact!"

    This of course isn't a statement against the validity of "climate change"( a bit redundant).
     
  27. Arishem The Final Shape

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    It's more telling when millions can be persuaded by opinions from people with no relevant credentials or strawman attacks against Hollywood/doomsday novel climate change. What's more likely is a slow intimate strangulation than an instant beheading; though for those in the worse affected areas, there won't be much difference.
     
  28. The Weeknd Duke of Tits

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    SO WE WON'T SEE THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN 2012?

    :C:gun
     
  29. Saf The Fresh Prince of Konoha

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    It's importan to note that before the 1960's, there wasn't mathematics developed enough to truly analyze meteorology. Developments in computer science have led to an exponential understanding of chaotic systems, and abstract mathematicians write proofs delving into the relationships between measurement and existence.

    Ultimately climate change is undeniably obvious, but it's far less obvious how to quantitize certain meteorological concepts in a way that we can produce data for without sticking a balloon out there for centuries. It's unclear how to approach the infant science of meteorology, so I would be hesitant to condemn somebody for genuine scepticism in the name of scientific philosophy.

    It is also a heavily politicized study, which is interrelated with the scientific credibility; but also influenced by political modes of thought, moreso than conclusions developed in a laboratory. As an OP, I think BaconBits is an all rigt dude, so any conflict I can identify between our views seems mostly errors of judgement or understanding.
     
  30. Darth inVaders Whats Been Seen Cant Be Unseen

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    There is a clear and indisputable consensus among the scientific community that climate change is real, happening, and we are responsible.

    However how fast it is happening is debated, it might be a deadly problem now or it might be a deadly problem a month / year / generation / whatever from now - but that does not mean we should sit on our collective asses and not do something about it now.
     

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