Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Eliyua23, Sep 23, 2012.
Knowledge : Manga
Location: Gaara vs Trollkage
Mu obviously obliterates him with Jinton after creating separation with his invisibility.
Mu doesn't really need his invisibility for this. Plus Gaara is one of the few shinobi who has a means of detecting him. It would be better for Mu to just fly in to the air and nuke Gaara from high altitude.
Gaara has no defense against Jinton
Doubtful he evades the sand long enough to get an accurate snipe, regardless of altitude.
Gaara can levitate and follow him, along with the sand, which followed Deidara around a city. Muu's flight speed is not superior to Deidara's feat wise, and Muu doesn't have exploding clay to repel several sand attacks. Going invisible and nuking at a high altitude is no different than invis nuking at base level, Gaara still loses.
Thus, he goes invisible before Gaara mixes the sand in the air to locate disturbances, and blindside nukes him from base level with decent separation distance.
Oh yeah, I forgot that Gaara makes for an excellent anti-air force. But I don't think it takes that long to charge up a jinton powerful enough to disinitegrate Gaara and the whole battlefield. He was using them against Onoki while flying.
But yeah, maybe he should turn invisible, although that leaves him open to detection from Gaara's contact sensor sand.
Edit: Wait, I always wondered but can Mu fly and use Jinton while invisible. I always had the impression that he can't (since he suppresses his own chakra) but I'm not totally sure.
Mu wins.He destroys Gaara with Dust style D:
Gaara probably wins this in the end. Gaara's sand allows him to keep track of move Muu unless he takes to the skies. The huge amounts of the sand he wields can probably protect him from the Jinton. Gaara not exactly easy to spot either. He is very good at switching his body with sand clones as Lee and Nidaime Mizukage found out.
Ultimately Gaara was able to stop an immortal, self regenerating, limitless chakra version of the man, Muu never could.
There aren't any practical defenses against Jinton.
Muu doesn't have single target abilities, so that's a rather futile option against Muu. HQ sent Onoki out to aid Gaara specifically because of Muu's Kekkei Tota. All of Gaara's sand would have been annihilated from subatomic deconstruction.
Pretty much Jinton GG. Gaara has no way of detecting, damaging, or seeing Muu do to his invisibility and he also has no defense against Jinton.
Gaara gets one shotted like anybody else who does not have genjutsu which covers whole battlefields, Rinnengan or Jinton
We know Onokii claims that only he can beat mu which more or less meant it took his KKT to fight mu's KKT (I think i remember their Dust release clashing and thus giving both sides a "defense" to the technique.)
However Onoki proved to be nearly useless in that fight.
Given the desert setting Gaara has all the sand in the world to fight mu. If mu is in close range he is detected and attacked. If mu is at long range to stay undetected then Gaara has plenty of time to react and dodge the dust release.
I'd give this to gaara by eventually corning him with sand. Dust release has yet to prove very reliable in killing anyone.
Knowing what they know about each other, Gaara would immediately try to drown Muu in sand. Being a sensor with great reflexes, Muu should be able to avoid this and he will immediately take to the sky. However, for fear of Jinton, he will immediately be pursued by large amounts of sand that will chase him around the sky to keep him from staying still. Given that Onoki's flight speed used to be much slower until he adjusted it to deal with Deidara, I don't think his pupil will necessarily have the speed to long avoid Gaara's sand, especially if gourd sand is thrown into the mix.
If Muu can make the sand too heavy for Gaara to manipulate in the air, he should be able to use Jinton: Genkai Hakuri. However, seeing this coming, Gaara should be able to pull off Kuusa Bouheki in time to intercept. I'd say there is a pretty decent chance that the size of this defense will stop Jinton even though it would be demolished. From there, Muu would probably get trapped with Sabaku Rou, although he could use Jinton to blast out in time. However, he could easily be caught immediately afterwards with Sabaku Kyuu and take a wound.
So whether it is here or earlier, I suspect he will have to split in order to survive and Gaara will take out one half. He will then need to become invisible, while Gaara will send sand particles for sensing. He will then eventually be caught and killed. Overall, I give this to Gaara 9 times out 10 with mid-high difficulty.
Damn it I like Garra.... He's my favorite none Uchiha, but Mu AOE potential is too much and Jinton is two much jutsu for almost any defense bar maybe the HIGHEST TIERS Susano and S/T counters.
I absolutely don't see the possibility of Gaara winning this battle; the manga have clearly implied that Gaara is the inferior kage. It had to take the effort of both Gaara and Ōnoki to compete against Mū, and they have X if it wasn't for Naruto's clone intervention. People might argue that it was because of Ōnoki's back pain, but that's not it. From the very beginning of the Tsuchikages confrontation, Mū stated that X to support Ōnoki.
I would say Gaara loses here.Muu can go invisible and fly around to get a good spot to hit Gaara with some dust and then its game over Gaara.
oonoki was having a hell of a time against muu (albeit muu is an edo). Oonoki is widely accepted as the strongest of the gokage, the manga pretty much depicts him this way. I don't think gaara is suited to fight muu.
Muu's clone easily dodged gaara's sand attack, sand clones probably won't work against a sensor like muu, and considering Muu could fire off a jinton before RM Naruto's chakra arm could propel him at muu, I'd think gaara's sand does not have the speed to disrupt muu before he unleashes a jinton with the attack power to fodderize susanoos.
I think Muu wins this mid difficulty.
Muu wins. Jinton is one of the few attacks that can actually overwhelm Gaara's sand defenses, and the manga implied it too. Both Gaara and Onoki were losing to Muu by himself.
Nope, Sand is not blocking jinton. period. The best sand will do is block mu's vision.
Throwing a desert's worth of sand at Muu is going to force him to use Jinton on the sand or be crushed from behind. It gives Gaara time to escape and drains Muu's chakra.
Yes he does. How do you think Nidaime Mizukage managed to fight him? Probably by distraction and use of clones to hide himself. Gaara can do the same, except Gaara has more chakra than Nidaime Mizukage.
It would exhaust Muu vaporising sand from all directions. Whilst it gives Gaara an opportunity to hide. Onoki was sent to help, but his back gave out. Gaara and Naruto took him out fairly quickly with little trouble.
I meant the sand would mean Muu would have to vaporise the sand first, given Gaara time to escape, whilst exhausting Muu's chakra.
Timing is everything in a fight. Naruto appeared at the right moment, and thanks to his arms extending, he managed to get his attack before Muu's.
Its was all situational, like most fights in the manga.
It doesn't mean Muu was weak at all.
Againts 2 Kage levels opponents he was winning, but a third appeared, had good timing, capitalized, and they defeated him, 3 vs 1.
1. Naruto's Rasengan was needed.
2. Naruto's chakra arms were needed.
3. Gaara's sand was needed.
4. Gaara was needed to seal him.
5. Onoki was needed to stop his Jintons and then seal his arms.
You make it sound like since they won easily 3 vs 1, that he was a weakling, if so, then Nagato is a weakling too. Muu was one of the strongest of the war next to Nagato and Madara.
He might be able to beat even KCM Naruto, his Jinton is that hax.
LOl. You vastly overrate Muu.
Onoki was holding him off perfectly fine by himself, but Onoki is old and got tired. Muu on the other hand had unlimited chakra.
Naruto's victory was really not that situational. He jumped in and Muu dodged, Gaara gave him a platform and then Naruto used superior speed to and range to finish him off quickly.
Muu and Nidaime Mizukage are on the same level. They fought each other several times and in the end killed each other. Muu alongside Onoki got a severe beating from Madara. Yes it was Madara, but he did not even use anything close to his full power. He didn't pull out perfect Susano'o and probably did not even use regular Susano'o but managed to thrash Muu in his prime handily.
The strongest Edo's were Madara, Nagato and Itachi.
sharingan only madara is pretty powerful. just look at the scale of X. itachi would be hard pressed to defend against that without susano'o
Yes, Onoki, another Jinton user.
Jinton can be countered by Jinton.
I'm not saying that Jinton cannot be countered, but it likely takes either chakra absorbtion, or the ultimate echelons of defense, like Susanoo, not Gaara's sand.
Jinton combines three elements, so it is at the peak of Ninjutsu mastery, and it even managed to defeat 25 Susanoos in V2, it is above Gaara's sand.
It was situational. Naruto tried to catch him off guard, and although he failed, he used that momentum to win. If Gaara's sand hadn't being there, Naruto would have being obliterated by the Jinton and you know it, so is not like Naruto could solo.
Even if Naruto fought Muu alone, since he wouldn't have knowledge, he stands a good chance of losing.
They have different fighting styles. Its more likely that Muu used his clam Genjutsu to trick Muu.
Gaara was able to win since he was told about Mizukage's clam genjutsu, otherwise he might not have even looked, and even then, gold lying there was also situational.
Even then, Gaara had a huge supply of desert at his disposal, but even with Onoki's help, he could not beat Muu.
1. Gaara would have being defeated if Naruto hadn't arrived.
2. If Gaara's sand wasn't there, Naruto would have being obliterated. Naruto can't dodge in the air.
Muu was below them, but above Gaara.
Maybe, but Itachi has Susano'o so would. Muu with the help of Onoki was utterly thrashed. Muu had no answer to Jokey Boy.
Gaara found a way around it.
Gaara can control sand and attack from multiple directions faster than Muu can use Jinton. Gaara can switch with clones. Gaara has been shown to be able to defeat a character Muu could not. In addition Nidaime Mizukage was actually a bad match up against Gaara, but Gaara still found a way to win.
yea of course, even the ribcage version should suffice.
but the point i was trying to make is that without some sort of high level defense, even madara's giant katons can win the match. so his trashing of muu/ young onoki shouldn't be that much of a surprise.
also i wouldn't say that muu couldn't counter jokey boi. if he couldn't he would have been dead on his first skirmish with the mizukage. and IIRC, didn't muu say that he was the one who killed the mizukage?
Naruto has created clones in midair to use their backs to leap off of them before. Against Gaara and later when learning to use Sage Mode. And we know he can create non RM clones in RM form since he created a sage clone against the Bijuu. He could have done the same here.
Oh Please don't draw straws to that extend. By the time Naruto would have done that, he'd have had a Jinton on his face.
Not to say that Naruto couldn't beat Muu, but not in that scenario.
Remember Naruto was raped by Nagato, so even if Muu is alot weaker than Nagato, he could still beat this Naruto.
Wait, so Naruto couldn't create a clone and jump off of it faster than Gaara could send a platform of sand? That seems a little farfetched. One of Naruto's hands were occupied by the rasengan, yes, but he has chakra arms.
oh please, do show me a scan of when naruto used clones/summons against edo nagato. oh wait, they were spread across the battlefield
Except it wasn't that simple at all in the manga until Naruto's clone showed up. Muu can fly and is more consistent than Onoki with his Kekkei Tota, not to mention Gaara was already fighting Muu with Onoki in that scenario. Three kages in HQ acknowledged that Onoki was the only shinobi there that could protect Gaara's division from another Jinton user. That's as simple as it gets in terms of comparisons here.
Nidaime has battlefield genjutsu for control and a reviving Joki Boy for numbers. Gaara's clones have no special properties to them, and his defenses are nothing before atomic deconstruction.
Gaara has never hid in any of his battles. He is about absolute defense using the environment's sand. In a primal contest between absolute offense vs. absolute defense, Jinton is a more complete and absolute attack than Gaara's sand.
One hand seal. That is all it takes. One hand seal and he could have replicated Gaara's sand platform. That isn't drawing straws. And in the meanwhile he could have held the Rasengan with his chakra arm.
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