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Edo Hashirama > Edo Madara

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by Zoan Marco, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Seraphiel Meem Magician

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    Viz translations are wrong more often than not, we have takL here a native Japanese speaker who when he gets the actual japanese jump goes over it and points out mistakes if there were any.

    Klue pointed out that takL a trusted native japanese speaker said that the Viz trans was wrong and that Madara said he couldn't use preta path or susanoo fast enough.
     
  2. 1Person Member

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    that scan makes it even more ambiguous, madara saying he couldn't absorb the jiton properly makes it sound as if he was still capable of using the preta path, just not "properly".
     
  3. Klue 輪廻

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    Why, because you have to purchase their work?

    Why not consider multiple translations, and when their is confusion, ask a translator to decipher directly from the original text?

    The fact that even you admit their not right all the time is reason enough to check other sources.

    Doesn't work for a debate.

    No, I'm not.

    For this example, I have read numerous translations from a few credible sources. Two interpretations exist:

    • Madara was unable to absorb the Jinton because of his Susanoo.
    • The clones Madara sent out with Susanoo are unable to absorb in time.

    VIZ supports the first line of thought, which clearly doesn't work. A reader can simply observe each panel and see that VIZ's explanation doesn't fit with what's going on. The original Madara was not using Susanoo. But his clones were using Susanoo, weren't they?

    Why would I give VIZ the benefit of the doubt?

    Furthermore, I asked takL to further clarify, to see if the clones was unable to absorb because of Susanoo or not - as it's not clear. One could argue that Susanoo was used to further describe the clones in which failed to absorb Onoki's attack, not necessarily confirm a conflict between the two jutsu (Susanoo and Preta Path).

    Though unsure, he believes that Susanoo wasn't necessarily at fault; Madara's words are pretty vague after all.

    But even if we assume that Susanoo prevented the clones from absorbing Onoki's Jinton, then why did the original Madara fail to absorb the attack, when he wasn't using Susanoo in the first place? He had no trouble either canceling Susanoo before absorbing or absorbing Susanoo along with Onoki's Jinton a few chapters prior (as I pointed out in a previous post).

    EmsXSusanoXUltimateSasuke, simply refuses to even consider alternatives for obvious reasons. And after flagging me for trying to bring further clarification (from data gained through text and art), he goes on to do the exact same thing: "Madara is affected by clones using Susanoo."

    X

    Ironic, right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  4. Closet Pervert Legendary Pervert

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    Yeah looks to me like Shodai would still kick Madara's ass. If old man Oonoki can survive a meteor while nearly dead already and save hundreds of people too, then Hashirama can survive the fricking Sun dropped on him.

    Kyuubi armored with PS is IMO clearly any Madara's ultimate jutsu (if you don't count Juubi). I agree Hashirama would still beat Madara. Madara may have some new abilities but Senju have 1000 jutsu. Hashirama doesn't even need Edo regen because he already seems to have Bijuu level chakra and can heal himself while fighting.
     
  5. Kaiser Well-Known Member

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    He did say his full power is perfect Susanoo and we got Hashirama's jutsu later in the flash-back that makes it look like shit, which already means Madara isn't capable to use that jutsu and the same can be said with other most powerful Mokuton techniques Hashirama is capable to produce

    Izanagi isn't really as good in battle as many people think it is. You really think alive Madara couldn't use Izanagi? Yet he didn't in his fight against Hashirama were he almost died. Do you know why? Because he would lose one of his sight, and without it, bye bye Susanoo, Perfect Susanoo or other versions, bye bye whatever the technique he has in his right or left MS sight he sacrificed for it.

    Izanagi is just a jutsu you use when you really is in desperate situation and has no other jutsu that can help you to survive. It's not for nothing that Izanagi users never(or rarely) use it in battles except if they are in desperate situation like Obito was against Konan. Danzo spammed it only because of the high collection of Sharingan he had and thought of the possibility of having new pair of eyes after his victory anyway(Sasuke's and Madara's), so he had nothing to lose in this case.

    But Uchihas only have one pair of eye. Sacrificing it just like this and fail in the end, and the fight is already lost without your main powers, the rest of your life is lost and you will die eventually sooner a later in one of your next battles. In short, you'll become useless
     
  6. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Active Member

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    You're using selective translation over actual logic.

    Just like how people would fixate on Nagato saying he couldn't on his own, yet ignore the two feats against Bee and the one against Naruto as well as his mini steps towards the Hell Realm summon.

    In this case you're choosing one translation which has been disproved, while ignoring the facts that Madara used the Preta Path with Susanoo active before and that Madara, the real one, didn't have Susanoo active.

    The scan stands in one view, but the view that's generally wrong. Viz's translations also suggest Itachi and Kisame ran because Itachi wasn't able to take on Jiraiya. Should we believe that over the countless translations which've suggested otherwise?
     
  7. Jυstin ♦ R E N E G A D E ♦

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    Stupidity has been described as - KNOWING the truth and SEEING the truth, but still believing the LIES.

    And that's infuriating. Munboy I know your pain. That line of Madara's in that scan doesn't quite fit with what's going on, with all things considered. Don't know why some others are having a hard time seeing that :/
     
  8. Quikdraw7777 Active Member

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    No offense, but this topic kinda falls under the "No Shit, Sherlock" category......:oh
     
  9. batman22wins Active Member

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    Madara said he let Oonki hit him. Wth are you guys arguing about?
     
  10. Zlad Rap is life

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    You are wrong, terrible wrong. In fact Madara and Obito are close and have many of the same powers because Madara thought Obito a lot [X]

    The difference is the mangekyo power and susanoo. But what use is something when it can't even hit? Obito was able to get behind Minato without him notice at the first and he is a sensor. Kamui, and it is over.
     
  11. T-Bag Blackbeard

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    zlad how old is u
     
  12. Dragon Sage Ash Active Member

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    More damn hashirama fanning!!! Apparently you forgot that Hashirama could not even kill madara with only his powers alone. Which is why madara got away, got what he wanted all along (hashirama's DNA) and lived on to harass the shinobi world creating such hate mongers a Obito, Nagato, sasuke, ect. So tell me again what you consider a defeat and a Win?

    Hashirama thinks he killed madara by only wounding him, but could not realize he was being duped and having his DNA stolen?

    Or?

    Madara getting wounded to achieve his goal and go on to almost realize his true plan...?

    Not to mention, I would bet that madara was forced to fight hashirama the way he did in order to exhaust his regeneration ability in order to actually make hashirama bleed. Because the regeneration is limited by two things.

    1). Dismemberment.
    2). Lack of chakra to perform regeneration.

    So by the first fight of uchiha vs senju, uchiha was not the weaker, only had a different goal. But, when you try and rationalize Edo hashirama senju>Edo madara/hashirama/nagato then you need to be committed.

    Even Edo hashirama vs edo madara with only the EMS would be madara's advantage due to the power ups of edo tensai.

    1). Instant regeneration.
    2). Unlimited chakra.
    3). Immortality.

    Three things hashirama was already known for and his power were already known for which made him the god like shinobi he was. But, by granting the same abilities to madara, hashirama completely loses his greatest advantage and doesn't become much stronger by gaining abilities he already pretty much had already.

    SO pretty much Edo tensai grants madara hashirama abilities with just the jutsu alone while giving hashirama abilities he already has which does not strengthen him. Although I would imagine the immortality power is actually greater then what hashirama had obviously, but still, hashirama is not really any stronger as an edo due to his already instant regeneration, almost unlimited chakra and immortality.

    Making EDO madara more powerful through edo tensai, but not edo hashirama due to him already having the advantages that edo tensai offers. Meaning that Alone EMS EDO madara>Edo hashirama. Much less Edo EMS madara/RG nagato/Hashirama>>>Edo hashirama.

    End thread/
     
  13. Imagine Unrivaled

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    Hashi > Madara period.
     
  14. Dragon Sage Ash Active Member

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    I call fallacy through ad hominem.

    Judging by the fact that hashirama did not actually defeat madara in a one on one head on battle as once believed 300 freaking chapters ago, only wounded him, but still allowed him to get what he wanted in order to become the next sage of six paths. Hashirama's DNA! There is no logical reason to come to this conclusion.
     
  15. shintebukuro Active Member

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    Klue, what sense does it make to say that Oonoki's Jinton was soooo fast that the original Madara himself, who was standing very far away, couldn't simply activate Gakidou in time?

    Madara is extremely fast, has sharingan, and Gakidou doesn't even require handseals.

    Do you really think Oonoki's Jinton was that fast?


    .....

    I think the better answer here is that Madara needs to deactivate Susano'o in order to use Gakidou. He could not deactivate the Susano'os of his 25 clones fast enough to use Gakidou on himself, and that is why he got caught in the Jinton a little bit.

    He was able to absorb Oonoki's Jinton X because he knew it was coming, but more importantly because he only had to deactivate Susano'o on himself and not 25 others.
     
  16. Dragonus Nesha Le Rouquin Super Moderator

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    Is this from VIZ's weekly release or volume release?
     
  17. shintebukuro Active Member

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    Edo Madara stated Hashirama could stop him.

    EMS Madara would NOT have the advantage as an Edo because he was only able to pose a threat in the first place because he had Full power Kyuubi with him. Now, he doesn't have Kyuubi, and no Edo perks nor subpar Rinnegan and Mokuton abilities will make up for Full power Kyuubi.

    I'd suggest you start using actual statements and logic from the series to argue instead of living inside your head and posing the nonsense you dream of as valid reasoning.
     
  18. Waltz 鎧袖一触

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    Madara is able to to make 25 mokuton clones, all wielding the rinnegan and EMS not to mention respective abilities for each doujutsu but also the ability to act co-ordinately without madara's actual presence. Based on Mokuton's composition Pretapath will render it useless on contact and this goes for each clone. Madara has already stated that his EMS is able to see throuhgh hashirama's mokuton bunshin and also has the abilitiy to anticipate attacks.

    Given that he has his edo abilities, he is able to use all the jutsu he copied from hashirama and possibly to the extents of shinshuusenju as Senjutsu only acts as an amplifier for the technique, and Mokuton itself possesses similar biological function to that of Jugo; given it's composition of course. Added to this, the rinnegan is a greater potential threat in comparison with the kyuubi, which hashirama himself stated was overwhelming. At the end of the day, EMS renders Bringer of darkness useless and Hashirama has no arsenal to counter Madara and his mokuton//rinnegan wielding bunshins. Hashirama canonically bested EMS Madara in his prime at high difficulties. His Edo-tensei form however is far beyond what he was capable of at vote; Madara would take this quite comfortably as he canonically has full knowledge of what hashirama is capable of.

    Pertaining to the statement you've misinterpreted bear in mind that "Power" is the ability to do something. Uchiha madara based on power accomplishments; Perfect susano'o is technically his full power hence the statement but in this case the topic is his edo state, as in it, he is able to do much more and to add that it has been canonically stated that his edo-state is beyond his prime when he possessed this power, perfect susano'o. Which nullifies your argument.
     
  19. Dragon Sage Ash Active Member

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    No, you are missing the context. Madara said that hashirama is the only one who could POSSIBLY stop him compared to the level of the five kage's who do not have what it takes.

    LMAO, you idea of reasoning is hilarious and made me pee a little, thanks allot.

    Your idea is that the kyuubi which hashirama has the ability to control as easily as madara making it a very ineffective weapon against hashirama as it would be against madara>The power of nagato combined with hashirama.

    You have fun with that reasoning.

    Really, you are complaining about my logic and reasoning, but type out that turd of a repost which only proves how little you truly use reasoning and logic as well as clearly unable to understand the method of advantage vs disadvantage otherwise you would not ignore the fact that EDO tensai alone powers up madara, but does almost nothing for hashirama.

    Let me try one more time...

    Madara's abilities;
    : SG genjutsu, tsukuyomi, amaterasu, susanoo.
    : High level taijutsu, with high speed and brute strength.
    : Large chakra level, but limited as well as stamina.
    : (bijuu control) The kyuubi, but is as easily controlled by hashirama as it is against madara making it very ineffective and very likely to be turned agianst madara.

    Hashirama's abilites;
    : Huge chakra pretty much unlimited including stamina.
    : Immortality.
    : Instant regeneration.
    : Wood Jutsu.
    : Sage mode.
    : Bijuu control.

    EDO Tensai's advantage's.
    : Unlimited chakra and stamina...
    : Immortality
    : instant regeneration.

    Now, EDO advanatge's included.

    Edo madara;
    : SG genjutsu, tsukuyomi, amaterasu, susanoo.
    : High level taijutsu, with high speed and brute strength.
    : Large chakra level, but limited as well as stamina.
    : (bijuu control)
    Plus...
    : Unlimited chakra and stamina...
    : Immortality
    : instant regeneration.

    Edo Hashirama; Still the same!
    : Huge chakra pretty much unlimited including stamina.
    : Immortality.
    : Instant regeneration.
    : Wood Jutsu.
    : Sage mode.
    : Bijuu control.

    Because Edo tensai grants advantage's that hashirama already has, ET does not really power up hashirama at all. But, with madara who does not have any of those advantage's. Madara is powered up given almost all of hashirama's abilities other then wood jutsu with just the Edo tensai jutsu alone making Edo madara already much much more powerful while hashirama is still pretty much the same.

    Translation: Edo EMS madara>Edo Hashirama if EMS madara was too much for hashirama to actually defeat even with a bijuu he could easily control and turn against him. Much less the addition of wood jutsu and RG jutsu
    combined with EMS madara's abilities.


    EDIT: And again, in case you missed it. The Kyuubi was not an advantage against hashirama due to his ability to control it too. In fact, because hashirama could control it too, it became a liability which madara was forced to protect with his susanoo, not something he did to strengthen himself due to the fact Perfect susanoo already surpasses the bijuu including kurama.

    So wrapping kurama in susanoo is like madara wrapping a lower level of susanoo in perfect susanoo which is unnecessary.

    EDIT#2:
    If you think that an Edo hashirama with no extra advantage's except true immortality, but something he already pretty much had is> to Edo madara who Gains all three advantage's that hashirama had, plus his abilities including the RG abilities making madara a true sage of six paths, but without the juubi.
    And yet somehow some of you actually think that hashirama will stand a chance as if half the sage's power>all the sage's powers.

    Yes,^^^ that is your reasoning here.
    Just because Madara had the kyuubi before means nothing. The kyuubi is power hashirama can control just as easily as madara thus use against madara in combat as already seen making it an ineffective weapon against anyone with the ability to control a bijuu like hashi and mad's...
     
  20. shintebukuro Active Member

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    You're reading a shounen manga. "Full power" means it is the absolute best he has to offer.

    All the extra things Madara has gained are weaker than his Perfect Susano'o. His Mokuton are not Hashirama's level, or else they'd be his "full power," and his Rinnegan techniques (all 2 of them) are also weaker than his Perfect Susano'o.

    The statement about being "beyond his prime" is something you've misunderstood. Kabuto stated he completed Madara's BODY beyond his prime. It is a reference to the fact that Madara has Rinnegan in a young body. There is no reference made to strength.

    You are twisting the context. Madara says the Kage stand no chance at stopping him, and only Hashirama is the person capable of doing so.

    He never says "possibly." He states he can be stopped, but just not by them.

    Madara makes the Kyuubi fuse with his Susano'o, and Hashirama needed to fight it head on instead of trying to control it himself.

    And all those extra powers Madara has gained have not added up to anything.

    It's all speculation. It's all theory.

    None of it ever stated or implied.

    The manga does not suggest any of this. Hashirama tried to neutralize Kyuubi with his Mokuryuu, failed horribly, and that's why he decided to fight it head on.

    There is nothing suggesting that Kyuubi was a liability.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  21. Pirao Trollslayer

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    Lol. That's exactly what he did.
     
  22. Dragon Sage Ash Active Member

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    Then why did madara gain hashirama DNA, achieving his goal then going on to plague the shinobi world creating such hate monger as Obito, Nagato and sasuke while ahcieving his goal of becoming the next sage of six paths while hashirama did what? Oh yea, he just died soon after...

    If you consider hashirama landing a single blow to wound madara while madara whooped up hashirama so much that he was even able to make hashirama with his instant regeneration bleed, thus gaining the DNA he was after to achieve his goal, as a win. Then your idea of a win of severely flawed.

    Getting DNA from hashirama with his instant regeneration is a feat alone. The amount of punishment and how far madara had to push hashiama to actually make him bleed enough to blood to take and experiment on is really amazing... I mean, getting through susanoo and the SG's defenses is a hell of a feat too, but actually getting DNA from hashirama who should not even bleed much less be physically injured is such a hell of a feat that it explains how strong madara truly is considering his goal was to gain the DNA alone, as opposed to just annihilating hashirama.
     
  23. Tengu Kiuuby-chan

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    Another translation of that pic:
    Spoiler:
    X

    Makes more sense, if you ask me.
    Not saying Madara>Hashirama though, have to wait to make up my mind.
     
  24. Pirao Trollslayer

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    The manga said he lost. Manga canon>>>what you think.

    Madara wanted to kill Hashirama and destroy Konoha. Getting Hashirama's DNA instead was a consolation prize. The plan of becoming a new rikkudo and putting the world in a genjutsu was started AFTER he had been whooped by Hashirama.

    Lol at you. Instant regeneration means that you get healed instantly. How does that dificult getting DNA exactly? Just drive a sword through him (like he did against Tsunade) and you have your DNA, even if the wound heals afterwards.

    Uchihatards now trying to rewrite manga history, amazing.
     
  25. Killacale85 Member

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    Living Hashirama> edo Madara...Juubi edo Madara> Edo Hashirama
     
  26. Ablaze Karasu

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    Other most powerful mokuton techniques?. Please, apart from Shin Sūsenju which it hints to needing sennin modo, all the other techniques hashirama has used can be used by madara. Also we have no idea what Shin Sūsenju does. For all you know it may be another form of gedo mazo, a technique which is to seal or gain control of a bijuu.

    Thanks for the update on izanagi :notrust.
    Madara could use izanagi when he was alive, however he didn't have hashirama dna before the fight, meaning his izanagi would be incomplete. While an incomplete izanagi is still useful it obviously doesn't rival, the complete version. Also if he did sacrifice his eye, it backfires on his plan, which was basically to gain the rinnegan after getting hashirama's dna, and i do not believe madara liked the idea of awakening the rinnegan in one eye, he'd like to awaken it in both

    We have yet to see. If you believe PS is current madara's strongest technique that i am certain you are wrong. It makes little sense for him to show his best technique early on. It defeats what he will be able to offer later. Its obvious he has more up his sleeves


    We know enough of izanagi, however i am certain with the rinnegan he will not lose his sight. In fact in the near future ill create a thread explaining why

    He has all the ingredients to use whatever technique he wants


    Erm no. We were to exclude kurama, the 6 path's techniques are stronger and more effective than what we have seen from ems madara

    Madara beside rikoudou sennin, is the true heir of the rinnegan. He will not reach, rikudou sennin level, however he will surpass nagato, when it comes to its usage

    Madara claimed he will teach obito the 6 paths technique, yes you are right though, madara knowing the basic's as you call it to the 6 path's technique isn't an indicator for him mastering the rinnegan. What is an indicator is what he has learnt and achieved.

    With the rinnegan he was able to read the final writings on the tablet, this information obviously contains many secrets and perhaps jutsu even. Example here he claimed he was able to unlock a seal and summon the outer shell of the juubi [X].

    The rinnegan as we know grants the user the ability to use both yin and yang. Madara claims this is what allowed him to create zetsu. He later claimed he will teach obito the inyouton jutsu which translates to yin & yang [X]


    It makes absolutely no sense for madara to be brought back for hashirama to solo him again, its almost pointless if this happens. It makes more sense to assume that this madara is stronger than hashirama. Its already stated in the manga that he is stronger than in his current state than when he was at his prime.

    Finally what people need to understand is that they keep on saying PS is madara's strongest technique, now we can dispute that forever, but for now ill give that to you. However just because PS, is madara's strongest technique doesn't mean that he has nothing to offer when it comes to hashirama and mokuton.

    His mokuton might be inferior to hashirama;s though nothing suggests this. After all hachibi claimed that, the strength of Mokuryū rivals hashirama's. Secondly preta path, is something that while we still do not know how it would affect mokuton, majority agree that it will cause it problems. If we were to assume he can use the other path's, that means tendo's abilities. Chibaku tensei, a technique that so far im still not sure how hashirama can get past.

    Hashirama might have instant healing however all that fails before Ningendo's soul removal
     
  27. Killacale85 Member

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  28. Waltz 鎧袖一触

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    Nonsense.

    Deva path which created the moon and sealed the Juubi > Perfect susano'o as well as specific attributes of the other various paths, i thought this was obvious as the Rinnengan was stated to be a doujutsu superior to Eien no Mangekyou.

    @ the red: your speculation, isn't fact so i'll disregard that.

    @ the blue: You lack the ability to understand simple vocabulary? You've never used a dictionary? Madara's prime state, as the word implies was during the time of greatest strength, vigor, or success in his life; when he fought Hashirama. Only an incompetent individual would fail to realize that he is indeed beyond his prime as he now possess not only unlimited entities but Mokuton-no-jutsu as well as the Rinnegan and it's varying attributes.
     
  29. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Active Member

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    Madara was just chilling and watching the battles. Then he got hit because of that. Another X X suggested the clones were not fast enough to absorb the Jinton which had bad consequences for Madara.

    How do we know Susanoo was deactivated? From your link, I looked at the next page and saw X. That suggests that Susanoo wasn't deactivated in time, yet Madara managed to absorb it.

    An alternative explanation to "Susanoo needs to be deactivated to use Gakido" and "Jinton was that fast" is Madara expected his clones to absorb the Jinton, however they - like himself - probably thought the Gokage were finished and as a result were all surprised with the Jinton.
     
  30. Dragon Sage Ash Active Member

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    The manga says allot of things, but they change as the "truth" is revealed.

    example;
    : Originally thought the kyuubi was the strongest bijuu, but it turned out to be the juubi.
    : Originally thought that the MS was the strongest doujutsu then it turned out to be the RG and now the sharinnegan.
    : Originally wind infused weapon was said to be the most powerful piercing tool, but then KB with his raiton weapon was said to be the strongest piercing weapon.
    : It was said that the RG evolved from the SG, but it turned out that the SG devolved from the RG.

    You cannot take what the manga says as "truth" considering how much things change and since it has been confirmed that Madara fought to gain hashi's DNA and not annihilate him in order to take over the position of Hokage and taking over konaha as it originally said.

    Wrong, it was madara's only goal to gain hashi's DNA to become the next sag eof six paths as explained by Obito who knew everything about madara and his goals, learned form madara directly.

    You are just ignoring what has actually happened and living in the past manga 300 chapters ago when everyone thought hashirama simply beat madara, the end. But, turns out that is not exactly what happened. As explained and shown by the manga.
    Then you go and completely make up the part about "becoming a new rikudou" as a secondary goal which is BS and has been confirmed to be madara's Only goal and the reason he fought hashirama at the valley of the end too.

    Have you ever seen tsunade bleed while using her instant regeneration jutsu? NO? Ok then!
    Simply using a sword to get blood is easier said then and with susanoo, there is no sword to use so hashi had ot of been beat down and pushed to such a level that his regeneration lowered to such a level that he was able to bleed in order for madara got take some, put it i a test tube, fake his death then run off.

    Projection much!?!?

    Hashiramatard's completely ignore logic and reason in order to fan the shit out of thier ubber god Home Depot Kage...
    I mean saying that EDO hashirama>EDO Madara/Nagato/Hashirama explains Enough about the level of reasoning and logic you fools use.

    Actually believing that half the power of the sage>the whole entire power of the sage... LMAO!

    Wait wait! You think that madara needs the kuubi to beat hashirama? WHY? Madara with only the EMS and the kyuubi which hashi could easily control himself was too much for him to actually kill madara and end him, only wound him at best, but still not stop madara from pushing him so far that he bled even with instant regeneration.

    Yet, with the combined power of his, hashirama's power/abilities plus Nagato's as well would make no difference to the point hashirama could actually beat madara and kill him which he could not even with only the EMS and bijuu he could control himself.

    No, RG madara alone would annihilate hashirama. With the RG, not a single hashirama jutsu can work.

    Ninjutsu will not work because of HG realms ability to seal them away.
    Taijutsu and genjutsu will not work due to shared vision with summons.

    Using Deva realms abilities alone, madara could beat hashirama. a SHinrei Tensai to blow away him own forrest creation, pollen flowera with pollen and buddha.
    Bansho tenin to draw in hashirama directly to a combo attack of summons and him.
    And CHibaku tensai would draw him and his jutsu in and crsuh him to the point not even the regeneration would help.

    Yet somehow all the RG jutsu+EMSjutsu+Hashirama jutsu and abilities<Hashirama abilities...

    Amazing reasoning.

    Sorry to be such a dick, but come on, this is just ridiculous.
     
  31. takL unfit 4

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    whatever see my sig. it was stated by Madara as if a universal truth.

    i dont know what he meant tho. maybe hed be too happy to keep going if he could beat hash for once. or he meant like
    maybe he as an edo has hashs mokuton and rinnegan in his arsenal, but he doesnt have hash's brains.

    as a side note, he would've been finished off by lee with 9b chakra if he wasnt an edo
    X
     
  32. Killacale85 Member

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    Until I see madara using HIS rinnigan on nagato's level on top of his already strong EMS then no I don't see him beating Hashirama. Just my opinion. Also when are we even going to see his EMS jutsu ? Personally I don't believe it's amaterusa and tsukiyomi.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  33. batman22wins Active Member

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    Nagato was using Madara rinnengan.
     
  34. Killacale85 Member

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    I know. What I'm trying to say is how the hell can someone use his eyes better than him? Makes no sense. But I guess he hasn't been pushed hard enough to use it since he is Edo.
     
  35. Querix Member

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    His mokuton was said to be exactly shodai's level
     
  36. Shinobi no Kami Active Member

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    PS was stated by madara himself to be his full power. i dont know where you people got the wild idea that edo madara is stronger than ems madara power wise. edo madara is the same madara that hashirama fought with a more complete body. there is no difference between the full power of edo & ems madara. edo madara was never implied to be greater than ems madara power wise.
     
  37. Querix Member

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    :huh what's this got with what i said?
     
  38. Shinobi no Kami Active Member

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    my point is that madara mokuton isnt on hashiramas level. shinsuusenju>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all of madaras mokuton.
     
  39. Klue 輪廻

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    Spoiler: Kabuto Ch.560



    Spoiler: Kabuto Ch.575



    :geg
     
  40. Shinobi no Kami Active Member

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    the entire topic is on madaras body & how his body has been completed beyond his prime. power was never the subject. madara having that powers he obtained late in life in a youthful have no bearing on PS which is his full power.

    madara is just talking about how he put hashiramas cells into madara. what are you trying to prove?
     
  41. Mistshadow AwEsOmE

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    versatility does not equate to more power.


    if we gave naruto the ability to use those wind techniques that danzo used, or even chidori, would he be more powerful than he is now? not necessarily because his trump card is still kyuubi transformation biju bomb atm.
     
  42. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

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    Honestly, I think Edo Madara is being portrayed as stronger at this point, considering his Mokuton power-up.
     
  43. Querix Member

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    Madara hasn't shown shinsuujen, therefore madara's mokuton isn't on the same level?

    That's a fallacy considering Shinsuujen is a sage art wood jutsu.
     
  44. Mistshadow AwEsOmE

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    Just goign through my old thread, I dont feel like reiteratin it all again. Hashirama>ed o madara
    part 1
     
  45. Mistshadow AwEsOmE

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    part 2 of my old posts
     
  46. Mistshadow AwEsOmE

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    final part,

     
  47. Ezekial Does want a custom title

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    Do people forget how powerful the Rinnegan is? It's the ultimate doujutsu of Rikudo beyond even EMS only a fool would think Hashirama is still on par with Madara... Also Madara now possesses Hashirama's power, Mokuton, the power that led him to the pinnacle of Senju, naivety is everywhere
     
  48. Zlad Rap is life

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    People completly forget that Mito helped Hashirama. If she wasnt there then the battle would have gone different.
     
  49. Klue 輪廻

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    He pushed Madara beyond his prime/when he was alive by giving him more power: Mokuton and the Rinnegan. A reader cannot possibly read that passage and believe anything less. Edo Madara is stronger/greater than VOTE Madara.

    You're reaching horribly.
     
  50. Mistshadow AwEsOmE

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    yes, rinnegandoes give him the potential to be stronger than hashirama, key word being POTENTIAL.

    but his mokuton does not, because he DOES NOT have sagemode, which from what we are seeing, is the trump card that put hasrhiama over the edge of being much better than madara alone. he took down kyuubi even alongside naruto with pure force.

    madara lost that pure force he had, and now has versaility on a lower level.

    There's a reason the first thing he did when res was try to bring back the kyuubi, and also why he is no impressed with being an edo and wants to be human.
     

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