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Dragon wouldn't save Luffy if he was being executed at Marineford

Discussion in 'Ohara Library' started by Kaan, May 12, 2012.

  1. Kaan Well-Known Member

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    As absurd as it sounds I don't believe Dragon would save Luffy if he was going to be executed at Marineford.

    Reason 1
    The Revolutionaries aren't ready to take the fight to the World Government. Dragon isn't a man that would waste his Military forces just to save his son. If Dragon brings his forces to Marineford then the World Government will capture there territory and everything they've done since the start will have been useless.

    Reason 2
    Dragon is too important. If he dies at Marineford then the Revolutionaries will have no one to lead them and fall apart. Dragon wont risk going there and dieing which is likely since the Admirals will do anything to take his head. It will be a short term pain (Luffy) for a long term gain (overthrowing the World Government).

    Reason 3
    He doesn't like to interfere with Luffy's life. Sure, he saved him at Loguetown but that's a piece of cake compared to saving someone from Marineford. He knew Luffy would go to Marineford to save ace and didn't interfere and I don't think he would if Luffy was the one being executed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  2. Viper █▬█ █ ▄█▀ ▄█▀ ▄█▀

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    It's too early on to predict what kind of man Dragon is but he clearly cares for his son. Who knows, maybe he was prepared to take all risks just to keep his son alive.
     
  3. Kaan Well-Known Member

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    No doubt he cares about his son but from what we've seen so far Dragon is a smart man. Starting a war with the World Government when you aren't ready and have territory to defend doesn't sound like a decision Dragon would make.

    Revolutionaries vs World Government is a tactical battle right now, not an all out war.
     
  4. Viper █▬█ █ ▄█▀ ▄█▀ ▄█▀

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    He might use other means of attack. Knowing Dragon I'm sure he has thousands of allies. He would be willing to start a war but not as directly as WB. Rather than just a battle like Marineford, this would actually be a "war" (series of battles) with retreating, tactics, and the General (Dragon) only making his move when necessary while only giving out orders. They would eventually find a way to save Luffy without too much bloodshed on both sides (as stupid as it sounds).
     
  5. jNdee~ MangSlayer

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    You sayin' Dragon is a selfish bastard?

    no. not now, we can't tell it
     
  6. Kaan Well-Known Member

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    You're underrating the World Government here, there is no way to rescue Luffy without committing all of your forces. Just look at what Whitebeard had to bring there and it wasn't even close to being enough.

    Besides there's a time for the execution, the war you're talking about would be more suited for something like the final war, not when you need to rescue someone within a time limit.

    Saving Luffy would be the selfish thing to do.

    Overthrowing the World Government will save much more lives in the long run.
     
  7. DoflaMihawk Blind Bandit

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    Dragon's not the only one who cares about Luffy.

    It would be: Dragon and the Revos, Shanks and his crew, Ace and his division (possibly the entire WB Pirates) and Garp vs the Marines.

    In other words; the Marines are f*cked.
     
  8. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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  9. God Movement Admanistrator

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    He'd take down 25 Admirals and 100 Vice Admirals.
     
  10. Marcelle.B Yuh Dun Know Moderator

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    when ivankov thought ace was dragons son she implied that he would've went to save him and that it would make no sense to piss off both whitebeard and dragon lol so yes dragon would go to save luffy
     
  11. Raid3r2010 Champion Of The OP 5th TourneY

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    He cared about Luffy during the Logue Town arc so yeah ... who knows ? Dragon might be the current strongest man in the world.I dare to say noone have better hype than him. :maybe

    Son of Garp,father of future PK.Yeah ...
     
  12. Pimp of Pimps But prostitute to all

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    I think he would. Yeah, he didn't go to save Ace but also consider that he probably never even met Ace before. He had no connection to Ace.
     
  13. Blunt Well-Known Member

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    There's no need for the entire Revolutionary Army to tag along. All he has to do is swoop in with his Wind Wind no Mi and save Luffy :LOS
     
  14. Johnny &#32

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    Ivankov seemed convinced that Dragon would act on Ace's situation, thinking he was Ace's father. We know Ivankov is one of Dragon's closest lietentants, so I think this gives us a fair idea.

    Dragon might not respond how Whitebeard did, but he would respond somehow.
     
  15. jNdee~ MangSlayer

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    Kung Fu dugongs will come too :hmpf WG is totally fucked
     
  16. Admiral Kuzan Former Marine Admiral

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    The WG isn't stupid enough to publicly execute Luffy, if they know how many connections he had there is no way they would risk it. They would just send him to ID level 5 or 6, and Ace, a couple WB commanders, and some allies of Dragon would try to save him and ID would get fucked up.
     
  17. MYJC Cunning Linguist

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    Everybody that happened to like Luffy wouldn't come out and save him.

    We already saw that Garp didn't try to save Ace, there's no reason to think he'd act any differently if it was Luffy. Garp would be sad, but he would NOT try to interfere. Like he said, Luffy chose to be a pirate.

    Shanks isn't the type of person to baby Luffy and interfere with his adventure. In fact Luffy would resent being babysat by Shanks and I'm sure Shanks knows it. I don't think he'd interfere.

    Dragon is hard to say. I'm sure he'd want to save his son but I don't think committing the entire Revolutionary Army to something like that would fly. After all, he's trying to liberate the world from the corrupt world government. I'm not sure the Revolutionaries would appreciate Dragon taking a chance on messing all that up just to save his knucklehead pirate son.

    Ace would definitely try to rescue Luffy, however I don't think it would be the entire Whitebeard pirates. I don't see the old man going to war to rescue someone he doesn't even know. Obviously Ace would try to rescue Luffy regardless, so I could see WB letting him take the 2nd division, but that's about it.
     
  18. Marcelle.B Yuh Dun Know Moderator

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    It's still his son though with garp he'd still have ace as a grandson but dragon would lose his only child unless he has other kids out there we don't know of.

    also inb4 close this thread is old as hell...
     
  19. Gunners .

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    It's like people overlook the very first lesson Shanks taught Luffy, it was a lesson in humility in case you forgot. He wouldn't leave him to die because his pride would be stung over him getting involved in his adventure.

    Dragon is not difficult to say. Someone who was close to him believe that he'd go to Marine Ford because the WG had his son, Ivonkov has seen far more of the character than readers who have only seen a few images of him looking like a badass and maybe a few choice sentences. You're also overlooking what forsaking his son would do for his cause.
     
  20. Wrath Mourning

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    Dragon probably would have been able to spring Luffy from ID.
     
  21. Sengoku センゴク

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    Dragon won't save Luffy if Luffy was the one who got himself into trouble. If it is a 1v1 fight (both are relatively around the same level) and there is no outside interference then he isn't going to save his son.

    Of course if the side is one sided, Dragon will definitely save him.
     
  22. Stannis Based

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    Ivankov clearly implied that Dragon will fight if his son was the one being executed.

    pretty sure Ivankov knows Dragon more than you do,op.

    Edit: necro :facepalm
     
  23. eyeknockout fear me, fodder

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    dragon definately would save luffy. even rivals like sanji and zoro would save each other so a father son bond like dragon who clearly cares strongly for luffy would definately come save him even if it means him having to solo 3 admirals and all the vice admirals. :LOS

    anyways if luffy was going to be executed you'd have

    shanks and crew, dragon and revolutionaries, whitebeard and crew, hancock and her island of women, silvers rayleigh all there to go save him...world government would all be dead before they even reached the battlefield this would be the greatest stomp of all manga time
     
  24. Juvia. Meow.

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    Dragon and co, Shanks and co, Ace and co, the SHs with maybe Rayleigh Garp, Jinbe and Boa vs MF... yea MF is fucked.

    The marines or the world government would be stupid to try ad publicly kill Luffy.

    To tho's who say Garp would not as he did not for Ace, i'm betting any money here that he cares more for Luffy than for Ace and when Dragon saw Garp just sitting there not helping Luffy... well lets not get into that.

    If anything Garp would know what was about to happen and rescue Luffy from ID to stop the Marine forces from being obliterated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  25. CandyCocaine Crack Head.

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    Dragon is not selfish at all.
     
  26. Admiral Kuzan Former Marine Admiral

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    Shanks was being held up by Kaido, if the same scenario is with Luffy as it is with Ace, Shanks would arrive very late in the war so we cannot include him

    Dragon would not be stupid enough to risk entering the war himself, he would probably either try to break Luffy out of ID himself or send some of his commanders/generals or whatever to help him if were being executed. He cares for his son, but would not risk the chance of all his hard work being thrown at the window by starting an all out war with the WG.

    Ace would definitely come without a moment's hesitation, and WB would never allow Ace to go by himself, so he would probably send Marco, Jozu, and Vista into ID to save him, or if they were to execute him he would contact some of his allies and ask them. Whitebeard isn't going to war for someone he doesn't even know, even if he is Ace's brother

    If Luffy got captured before he went to Amazon Lily, then Hancock wouldn't have ever met him which means she doesn't fall in love with him, which pretty much means she isn't even going to the war because she would have never accepted the summons if it we'rent for Luffy.

    Hahahaha....no. He isn't coming. He's an old man with no ties to Luffy at all, he may respect him and care a great deal for him, but to risk having the WG on his tail again just to try and save him is just completely retarded. He saved him and his crew at SA because he was close enough inside their reach to give them a hand. Their bond wasn't that strong pre skip, I can see him doing it Post Skip though.

    No it wouldn't because most of the people you just mentioned wouldn't even be coming. Let's face fact, if Luffy got captured before he had a chance to make all those allies in Amazon Lily, and ID then he is pretty much screwed if he gets executed, but since the WG does not know any of his allies they wouldn't try to execute him, but just put him into ID. In which, Ace, Dragon, and or Garp could easily save him.


    As I said earlier, Dragon would not come directly, Shanks would arrive late, and Ace would come with probably only half of what WB brought. Rayleigh would not come, he's an old man who does not want to get involved in a war that has nothing to do with him, and Garp didn't raise a finger to save Ace, why would he Luffy? The Straw Hats are nothing, they would get completely wrecked by anyone with the rank of Vice Admiral or above.

    These are the people who struggled against a single Pacifista, while pirates from the NW were taking down Pacifists like nothing, they're like ants, just waiting to get stomped on.

    Not exactly, EOS Luffy definitely but Pre-skip Luffy was just a rookie. His connection were nothing, they knew WB wouldn't have come himself if they executed him, and Dragon is not stupid to come himself and risk ruining the Revolutionaries because of his son's mistake.

    He loved them both equally, if Luffy has his son and not grandson, then absolutely he would have done something, but he cared and raised them both. He may have more of an emotional tie with Luffy, but he wouldn't quit being a Marine and help Luffy out, because the consequences would not be worth it.

    I'll agree with this
     
  27. Juvia. Meow.

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    Why would Shanks come up late, Kaido would have no reason to attack WB as he would not know wtf is about to happen, also i am sure WB would know Shanks was going and Dragon (yes Dragon would go) and they could easily team up, if it's Luffy MF is doomed unless Garp saves him in ID.
     
  28. Admiral Kuzan Former Marine Admiral

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    Maybe not as late as he did during the war, but he would not show up as early as WB did. He was somewhere in the NW, WB already knew about the execution and already contacted his Allies to come and head out. I'm sure Shanks would come as well, but not as early as WB did.

    About Dragon, He is a very mysterious man and is the leader of an army that is directly trying to shake up the government. Why in the world would one of the most important factors of a possible war in the future show up at MF, with the possibility of being killed to save his son? He would definitely act is some sort of way, that's a given but I just cannot see a man like Dragon starting an all out war with the WG over Luffy. He even said that Luffy is a
    man now and can take care of himself, he doesn' need to be protected at every hard challenge by Daddy
     
  29. Zyrax Pasha انا انثى انا

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    Luffys allys can take out all of the Marines outside of High tiers. Hell shanks or Dragons CoC can do it effortlessly
     
  30. Juvia. Meow.

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    Dragon is the sort of man that stands for what's right, if i was in the OP i would join up within a second because i'm just like that, he's not going to let his own son be killed why he just stands by, sure his task is much more important than one boy but that wont stop a father from saving his son. If he dose a lot of his allies would leave him because he is not the man they thought he was.
     
  31. Admiral Kuzan Former Marine Admiral

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    How exactly do you all of this information about the Revolutionaries. They didn't even know he had a son, that pretty much tells that they don't know alot about their leader. I'm not saying he would let him get killed, he would send his strongest members, plus some of his allies to free Luffy from ID.

    If it's war then he would most likely send even more, MAYBE he would come if he knew that the other Yonkou were coming, if it were just by himself than that would be ridiculous, because as I said Luffy's connections are limited, nobody as of right now would start a war with the government like WB did. Shanks would arrive to stop the war, not Instigate it, and WB would not bring the amount of allies he did with Ace, because remember all of those Allies have met Ace and have friendly bonds with him. NONE of them have even heard or met Luffy.
     
  32. Kishido ...

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    Dragon would have come for sure. Iva even mentioned it after believing Ace is the true son of Dragon
     
  33. Juvia. Meow.

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    I know so much about the Revolutionaries because i read a lot about civil wars and hope there will be one in my life time that i can sign up to, civil wars happen in two ways, A the country needs a massive change so the people of that country make it happen (they normally win), B a power house with or without lots of money rises up to take control (they normally lose) Dragon is the A and a good man, you can see this even with the little panel time he has there is no way he would just let his son die.

    Also they will find out because at Luffy's execution the whole world would find out.

    Also i think you misunderstand the connection WB has with his crew m8s and allies, if Ace asked WB would have done it right away, that's the kind of man he is. I don't know what your problem is with connections but with what you've been given of it sounds like you have never really been THAT close to anyone before, if you had we would not be talking about this right now.

    WB would go with Ace and would bring everyone with him just because Ace was going to go.

    Shanks would go and he would not of gotten held up because the other yonko would not know about the opening because this time it would be Dragon and co that MF was targeting.

    Dragon would go becuase of the kind of man he is and because it's his own son that is about to die.

    Boa would go if Luffy had met her before hand, same with Rayleigh and Jinbe but Jinbe may go because of the WBs anyway and there connection.

    Hawkeye may join up with Shanks because of there connection if not then at least he would not fight.

    Garp may join the alliance instead of the Marines because it's Luffy and his son and Ace would be there and if not he would not do anything and just watch until Dragon faces him wondering wtf he is doing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  34. Admiral Kuzan Former Marine Admiral

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    I never said he would let him die, all I said was I do not see him starting a full out war with the government pre skip when they were still gathering allies. I think your reading too much into this, it's just a simple discussion.

    You realize that they found out about it when the war was ABOUT to start? There's no way the Revolutionaries could make it if they found out at that time.

    First of all don't bring my personal life into this matter, that has nothing to do with the conversation. We're talking about Dragon and whether he would save his son, WB is just an added bonus to the matter. Ace would come, I can agree with that, but you don't seem to realize the true intentions of WB and his crew. They are not heroes, they do not help people out the goodness of their heart, they're pirates.

    Perfect example was with Jimbei, Ace told Jimbei to watch over Luffy if he were to die, and Jimbei even stated that he isn't the type of guy to help people because of sibling bonds. He only helps people he respects, and if Luffy got captured before he got to ID, Jimbei couldn't have even come. The same thing applies with WB and his crew, they would only help Luffy if they respected him and held him in high standards, they haven't even met the guy so where do you get off telling me that WB would come right away just because Ace asked too?


    Tell anybody else in this forum that, I'm sure they would agree with me. Everyone of WB's allies are from the NW, a place Luffy hasn't even stepped in. You think, all those pirates from the NW would start a war with the government over a rookie that has no presence in the NW? Are we reading the same manga?

    We don't even know if Dragon would come himself, so your point is invalid. I'll agree that Shanks would come, since he came for Ace's execution.

    We've been over this several times, I said he would try to save his son before he got executed, like a raid on ID or break him out on the Marine ship that is carrying him.

    That scenario isn't possible. Luffy would have to get captured before he went to Amazon Lily in order for there to be an execution. Jinbei again, if Luffy never goes to ID, then he does not free Jinbei which means he does not respect Luffy, which equals no assistance from him.

    ROFLMAO. Mihawk is a Shichibukai genius and had no hesitation to strike down Luffy in Ace's war. If there was war to execute Luffy, Mihawk would obviously be on the WG's side, but if Shanks interfered he would step down and leave, jut like he did in Ace's war.

    Garp would try to bail Luffy out before the war happens. You need to realize that he raised both Luffy and Ace the same and loved them both equally. He would not leave the marines and directly help Luffy out, that would be completely out of character. Garp has been a marine hero for decades, why would he risk being called a traitor and targeted by the marines to help his grandson who chose to be a pirate.

    I don't where you keep getting all this connection crap from, but it's completely irrelevant in the OP world. Respect > Connections in OP. Look at Luffy, he helped all those people out not because of his good heart, or connections, it was because he respected and liked the people he met on the island. Connections are great, but if they don't respect or acknowledge you, there's no way there going to war for you.
     
  35. Juvia. Meow.

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    The WB pirates and allies would not go for Luffy they would go because Ace was going, allowing Ace to go on hs own would mean his death WB would know this so he would go as well and ask allies to go to, the allies would not say no because they would know it would means WBs death, it's not about Luffy it's about connections that have connections.

    Same with Hawk Eye, he would not help Luffy because of Luffy he would help Shanks save Luffy.

    Dragon is probably a lot like WB in this regard WB did not raid ID for some reason probably plot and the same would happen with Dragon.

    The people Luffy would not have met i would give you but Jinbe would probably still turn on the WG at the BF because WB was there trying to save Luffy as well.

    Connections that have connections, that is what Luffy has.
     
  36. tupadre97 Active Member

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    Yes he would, but too many ppl would want to save Luffy so the Marines would just kill him on the spot.
     
  37. Dark Active Member

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    @Thread poster

    It is not wrong to assume that Dragon has what it takes to be a good leader, so what I think is that you're seeing Dragon from the prospective of being a successful leader who wouldn't risk the lives of thousands of his revolutionary army in order to save on life, even if it was his son.

    But you see we don't have enough proof or evidence to decide that for sure, which is Dragon sacrificing his own son for the sake of the better which is overthrowing the World Government.

    I am not gonna say what happened in Louge town was enough to say that Dragon is the type of man who would wage a war with haste and without enough planning, but still you can't say for sure if he wouldn't.


    Yeah, that's true but you don't really know if the entire Whitebeard pirates in addition to their alliance would come for Luffy's sake, yeah sure Ace is a commander and has his influence on the Whitebeard pirates but still if you remember Jinbei's refusal at first to save Luffy if Ace were to die so unless they have known Luffy and his personality/spirit/his "will" that will change the whole world and be the most influential pirate on the new era.

    So other than Ace I can't decide for sure who would have come to rescue Luffy from the Whitebeard pirates.

    Coming to Shanks, some asshole Yonkou might use this chance to have their revenge against him so he might not make it to the execution platform in time. It is good to note that what happened between him and Kaido was different because they didn't go all out and it was probably settled between the two captains like with Shanks and Whitebeard but more violently of course.

    I doubt Garp would actually fight against the marines, sure he won't fight against Luffy and his allies but I am not sure if he is willing to spit on the face of the justice which is part of his pride.
     

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