1. Fancy yourself a sleuth, evil mastermind, debating pro, and/or just plain love One Punch Man? If so, sign up for Akihabara Lounge's first Mafia game, themed on One Punch Man.

    LINK
  2. Hey you

    Yeah you!


    Have you always wanted to impress Gordon Ramsey with your culinary skills?

    Well you can't...

    But you can impress the NF community by joining the Cooking Contest in the Bento Box!

    And we promise we won't make you cry like him.
  3. Throwback Naruto : Hidden Village of Art has launched a new contest related to Naruto where Love and Spring is in the air, until next June 21.
    To know more click on the link: Spring Canon Pairings Drawing contest !!
  4. The latest NF Newsletter is out (June), read it here

Dragon ball super chapter 22

Discussion in 'Dragonball' started by Itachi san88, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Hazard Black♤

    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    THE MANGA WILL STAY UNNECESSERY!!!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  2. LordPerucho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,739
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:


    This made me chuckle.
     
  3. ensoriki Son Ganon

    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Wot it could've been anyone else.
    Vegeta also surpassed the gods. Vegeta sired the kid who time travelled. Hence the jab that Black stole the wrong body. In the present Goku interacts with Zamasu and infuriates him, but in the original set-up Goku didn't meet Zamasu before having his body stolen. It was all just done off that tournament, where if Hit or Monaka just as easily could've been snatched.
    Trunks was the time traveller who upset the natural order of things. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, etc are all supposed to be dead. Trunks fucked that up because he and his mother couldn't accept their fates and losses. He, like all the other saiyans, had surpassed the Supreme Kai's.
     
  4. SF latif King of Knights

    Messages:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    448
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Reputation:
    zamasu technically never met, vegeta before he took over goku`s body. and the reason he took over goku`s body is because he is the first one to defeat him as a mortal not vegeta.
     
  5. ensoriki Son Ganon

    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    That is his inspiration in the present timeline for taking Goku's body.
    However we know that Goku only goes to meet Zamasu in the present timeline because of Blacks appearance.
    Zamasu from the start wanted power to enact his plan and the original Black sees Goku who at that time in Zamasu's development has already fought in the tournament and can be seen amongst Kai's as a result of Godtube.

    As we know from the anime. Black already had knowledge on *all of the fighters* in Z. He already knew Vegeta despite not having met him, he knew about Trunks time travelling. He knew all these things because he did his research.

    Black himself could've been anyone that Zamasu saw to be strong. In the present timeline they *stop* Zamasu from becoming Black in the first place, and in the process nearly created him by having him face humilation from Goku.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  6. SF latif King of Knights

    Messages:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    448
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Reputation:
    goku was > vegeta
    so that`s another reason why he took goku`s body over vegeta`s. and second, black (I.E Zamasu) fought goku. as he said it himself. so yea, he fought goku before taking over his body
     
  7. Lapis Ravioli Emperor Time!

    Messages:
    15,839
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:

    You have things backwards,.

    Zamasu saw the U6 tournament and it was clear as day that Goku had the best performance, ergo was the strongest. It's really no different from what Ginyu did

    In the Anime, Zamasu is just fixated on Goku because he's Goku even thought Hit had a somewhat better performance and had a similar ability to adapt his powers. And are you really talking about lack of emotion in the Manga after seeing this chapter?

    The one where Goku challenges Zamasu's ideals, to the point where he tries to convince him he's bound to fail anyway? The one where the Zamasu's start falling out because of their seemingly perfect plan, is on the verge of failing? In the Anime, Goku Black is more concerned with being OP than actually carrying out his plan even.

    Hell, Gowasu seems more developed since he actually takes full responsibility for not knowing Zamasu as well as well he thought.


    See, these things you say are missing are still in the Manga, just not the way you expected it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Ningen x 1
    • List
  8. Hazard Black♤

    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    anime zamasu and anime black are in everyway possible more interessting and entertaining than in the manga.
    just like everything else.
     
  9. Lapis Ravioli Emperor Time!

    Messages:
    15,839
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:


    Believe it or not, most of that has to do w/ the voice acting

    In terms of being written, they're not characterized all that differently
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
  10. Transcendent Samurai Celestial Sword Style

    Messages:
    2,714
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    He technically wasn't beating Black in SSJG since he was switching to SSJB every time he attacked. It was to conserve energy. But that in and of itself didn't make much sense. Super Saiyan God is supposed to utilize near perfect ki control, and I find it hard to believe that SSJB would counteract their efforts in that to the point where it's like SSJ3 in ki usage. This bullshit essentially started when Vegeta somehow exhausted all his ki switching to Blue in the manga U6 tournament, which honestly felt like a plot device to have him lose to a far weaker version of Hit so that Goku could fight him. Now Toyotaro feels like he has to stick with the concept, even though it never made sense to begin with.
     
  11. The Strawberry Carrot Top I Threw It On The Ground!

    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Vegeta runs his mouth and would normally and canonly get smoked afterwards but the manga is basically his own spinoff so he's safe from that. Ssg goku > ssg vegeta. Black in the manga was a scrub. I can't recall any good showing from him. You could very well say black jobbed in the manga. Ssg vegeta's feats against black can't be compared to ssg goku's anime feats. I also fail to see how vegeta can master ki quicker and better than goku by training a couple of months in the hyperbolic time chamber.
     
  12. Lapis Ravioli Emperor Time!

    Messages:
    15,839
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    SSJB isnt SSJG

    Simple as that
     
  13. Transcendent Samurai Celestial Sword Style

    Messages:
    2,714
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    SSJB utilizes SSJG and SSJ at the same time. That's why it's original name was "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan," even if they changed it to Blue because that name was too long.
     
  14. ensoriki Son Ganon

    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    You are aware that Goku and Gohan spent the remaining week mastering Super Saiyan because it wasn't simply Mastery of base = mastery of SSJ -_-.

    Vegeta spends months to master the prerequisite form, going back to the basics and people can't comprehend it.
     
  15. Transcendent Samurai Celestial Sword Style

    Messages:
    2,714
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I can comprehend that fine. The part I have problems with is the claim that SSJB drains ki as fast as SSJ3 when it has been stated to utilize SSJG, which is centered around ki control.
     
  16. Lapis Ravioli Emperor Time!

    Messages:
    15,839
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:

    Think of like chemistry, even though it comes from two basic components, it's likely SSJB is unique in it's own right. Meaning jut because they have mastered SSJ doesnt mean SSJB is also mastered. In other words they have to put on their training wheels yet again to optimize the use of SSJB

    Which is basically what Vegeta does
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Ningen x 1
    • List
  17. ensoriki Son Ganon

    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    SSJG is centered around a magic ritual, access and manipulation of God Ki.
    Whis has them go through training to raise and hone their ki. Hell in the anime they don't even do their training in SSJ for a reason, because they know they have to improve their basics.
    SSB's drain just showed as them being tired but still holding the form with diminished strength. Hell in the anime, it burns out the flipping Potara fusion.
    In SSJ3's case Goku fell out of the damn transformation.
     
  18. Transcendent Samurai Celestial Sword Style

    Messages:
    2,714
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    I still don't see how that would nullify their prior mastery of ki control, which is a skill independent of any of their transformation masteries. Even disregarding that, think back to the Cell Games. Goku and Gohan spent a year mastering the basic Super Saiyan form so that they could maintain it indefinitely. Then Gohan goes SSJ2. Is SSJ2 initially inferior to FSSJ? No, of course not, because even unmastered, it's still a higher form. You don't see Gohan having to stay in FSSJ and then switch to SSJ2 in the moment that he attacks Cell, because even if the form is unmastered, the initial transformation isn't so ineffective that he can only maintain it for a couple minutes. But that's basically what Toyotaro did with SSJB, despite, again, their newfound mastery of ki control in general.

    Does Vegeta ever go through that ritual? I don't think he does. Which simply means that SSJG and manipulation of God Ki are both gained through training to raise and hone their ki if the ritual is not utilized. SSJB is SSJG + SSJ; it always has been.
     
  19. Hazard Black♤

    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    they did them better in the anime.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  20. Hazard Black♤

    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Reputation:
    lol ok.
     
  21. XImpossibruX the absolute madman

    Messages:
    3,978
    Likes Received:
    680
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    So mad how Black is portrayed in the manga.

    What the actual fuck.

    i'm so mad.
     
  22. xenos5 Objectionable Objection

    Messages:
    5,851
    Likes Received:
    586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    Yup. So much wimpier.

    Also. I think Goku's mistake here in the manga is actually much dumber than the anime :lmao . Simply forgetting a seal>>>mistaking a fucking coupon for a seal.
     
  23. Gogeta Shape shifter

    Messages:
    6,668
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    Not that i necessarily disagree, i also much much prefer anime Black, but calling the manga a spinoff just because it didn't go the way you wanted it to?

    What if the manga came out first and it was with Vegeta shitting on Black? Would you have said "Fucking Toei ruined Vegeta in the anime"?

    No?

    Then sit down.

    Also, how can he master ki quicker? Did you not see him spending 6 fucking months in the time chamber? Is that not a good enough explanation? 6 months is way too short for you? 6 months that Goku didn't get to have?

    I realize Manga Black is much worse. But that's not just because "FUCKING VEGETA UGH", but because he didn't beat anybody really. The threat wasn't there. Look at the anime. They went there, they got fucked. They went there again, they got fucked. They went there a 3rd mother fucking time and still lost and had to resort to Zeno. The manga is worse cause there is no suspense and no feel of threat, unlike in the anime.

    If Goku and Vegeta's roles in the manga were swapped with everything else staying the same, i'd be equally disappointed.
     
  24. Lapis Ravioli Emperor Time!

    Messages:
    15,839
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:

    Black did fuck them up the second he unlocked Rose tho, the difference is this time around they only went back a second time because they had a plan


    Honestly the only difference between the Manga and the Anime instead of the 3rd times the charm it's the second.

    The only suspense in the anime, is cause of by Plot Conveniences in favor of the Villains
     
  25. Gogeta Shape shifter

    Messages:
    6,668
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Reputation:
    Wasn't it due to Zamasu's healing?

    Whatever heights Black reached in the anime, it was pretty much all due to himself. Zamasu had no healing abilities in the anime and they won through teamwork/coordination, rather than Zamasu healing Black and being effectively useless in all other ways.

    Even IF (and that's a big if) that was the only way they showed suspense, i'd still take that over no suspense.

    I am in the minority when i say i overall like the manga. It's done some things better than the anime and some things worse. I see it as a different version and am fine with both. But you can't disregard issues with the reasoning "WELL THE ANIME DID IT BADLY TOO". Great, then critique both.

    I don't know why people tend to take sides and usually just defend one to the death and hate the other. You all care more about "winning" the argument rather than being right.
     
  26. Lapis Ravioli Emperor Time!

    Messages:
    15,839
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Reputation:
    Catdank Faction:
    That doesnt make it better,in the anime at best he's Black's meat shield while Black gets plot powerups that werent even properly explained.


    Your opinon I guess
     
  27. The Strawberry Carrot Top I Threw It On The Ground!

    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    The author is clearly biased towards vegeta from what was shown in this arc. Not having Goku fight black even once, having him upstage trunk's. Having black be afraid of him. It just seems like the guy's a biased fanboy. Why did black have to be afraid of vegeta? Because he looks like goku. Why did vegeta have to stomp black? Because he looks like goku. It seems like he's pandering to some kind of inner fanboy that so wants vegeta to be stronger and more badass than goku and that can only happen in the manga where the I believe to be a vegeta fanboy is in control of.
     
  28. The Mathemagician Headshot Productions

    Messages:
    3,865
    Likes Received:
    592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reputation:
    I don't really mind Vegeta being center stage in the manga version. Hell I don't even mind Vegeta shitting on Black as I like manga Vegeta, but it has made no effort to make me care for Black. Not to mention him shitting on Black was funny. But Goku never fighting Black once and Trunks getting sidelined in his own saga are pretty big downers for me.
     
  29. The Strawberry Carrot Top I Threw It On The Ground!

    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Honestly if the manga was first and vegeta got stomped in the anime that would've made sense because vegeta getting stomped showed black to be a threat and made him credible as a villain. Black getting treated the way he got treated is unacceptable. If goku gave him the hands it would still be unacceptable. Instead of having goku and vegeta team up in the manga it was basically just the vegeta show. Seeing vegeta get clowned every time he gets full of himself is way funnier imo.
     
  30. The Strawberry Carrot Top I Threw It On The Ground!

    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reputation:
    Vegeta can't hold a candle to goku. The anime shows were he belongs. In terms of relevance.
    He's second best and would never be able to replace goku.
     

Share This Page