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Did Minato Namikaze have Sage Mode?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives 2' started by PrazzyP, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    Minato had good links with the toads much like Jiraiya and now Naruto.
    so does that maen its possible that Minato knows sage mode too?

    Discuss.
     
  2. Thor Banned

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    He didn't need it.
     
  3. Divinstrosity Itachi: God Of The Gods.

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    I don't think he needed it.

    I don't get the feeling that Jiraiya and Naruto would ever have achieved overwhelming speed without Sage Mode. Of course, they could have trained like Lee and Gai and become gods - but I doubt Jiraiya or Naruto felt they were worthy of training with and becoming as great as Maito Gai.

    Anyway...

    Minato is a natural super-genius, who, according to Jiraiya, had a great work ethic to match.
     
  4. Dboy2008 The Genius of Konoha

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    I'm gonna say no
     
  5. Final Jutsu Best of the Best

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    No, Fukasaku stated Sage Mode was about Jiraiya/Naruto specifically. Due to their large chakra pools.
     
  6. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    whats to say minato didnt have a large chakra pool? :awesome
     
  7. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    the thing is though, SM was all about achieveing raw power and not so much getting speed.

    minato was already fast so him getting SM would have meant he became incredibly powerful too and his jutsu would have become much more prevelent.

    such as his rasengans becoming even more beastly :LOS
     
  8. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

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    Minato trained with the frogs, we know this since he had Frog summons...

    But, Fukasaku clearly stated that only J-man and Naruto were right for Sage Mode. :edu
     
  9. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    thats a shame :(
    i would have loved minato to hurl a hige rasengan at someone :awesome
     
  10. Naruto PORTUGAL CARALHO Super Moderator

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    :lmao

    What do you mean? Nobody "needs" to be a force-sensitive version of superman, but I fail to see how it would have hurt Minato, or anyone else, to have it in their arsenal.

    More than likely Minato wasn't suited to that type of training.
     
  11. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    While I agree with you that Minato did not have sage mode, I have to take exception to the idea that he did not need it. The beauty of sage mode is that its ninjutsu is not sui generis, it only enhances what you already have. If Minato had sage mode, he would have been able to (1) use MUCH stronger rasengan, (2) probably complete rasengan because of the chakra boost (3) automatically acquire high level genjutsu casting skills and genjutsu defense through Ma and Pa and (4) Be able to use kawazu naki in combination with hiraishin (insta-kill combo) and (5) become a greater sensor than he was

    A sage mode Minato would have been unbeatable. He could literally throw a kunai and purposely miss, teleport to the kunai via hiraishin, use kawazu naki phantom punch and you are dead.
     
  12. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    exactly my point!

    minato with Sm would have been almost invincible, which is probably why kishi didnt give it to him :LOS
     
  13. Hated Uchiha Pioneer to the Falls

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    did minato have his future foretold by the elder toad?
     
  14. Jiraiya4Life I Like Trains

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    He may have picked it up if he lived longer...but thanks to the whole entire plot of Naruto he had to die :/
     
  15. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    how unfortunate :(

    nothing would have been more badass than a teleporting ghost punch
     
  16. BraggZero Manga Colorist

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    X

    Minato needed to borrow chakra to transport the Kyuubi away, something that wouldn't be necessary if he had Sennin Mode.

    It has been stated that you need to have a huge natural chakra reserve in order to master Sennin Mode, something Minato doesn't have. Naruto inherited his stamina from his mother, not his father.
     
  17. Griever Omne ignotum pro magnifico

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    That's not really true.... Sage mode has a number of boosts for the user, makes ninjutsu stronger, allows for invisible punches, increases physical strength etc. Sure Minato was a strong shinobi and unlike naruto doesn't need such things in order to fight top class shinobi, but it never hurts to have something to fall back on just in case.

    Jiraiya was also a very strong shinobi without sage mode, but it didn't hinder him from learning it.
     
  18. tgm2x There is only despair.

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    No, Naruto>Minato at least in sage training, Minato would become toad. /thread
     
  19. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

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    Great point. :quite

    ...although, Minato could have been tired from the intense battle with Madara...:maybe
     
  20. ?  

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    He didn't have Sage Mode. He likely didn't have the chakra for it. Sage Mode doesn't fit him anyway (Though it would certainly be of big use). Minato wasn't a brute type like Naruto and Jiraiya. He was a finesse type of ninja like Kakashi and Itachi.
     
  21. Dboy2008 The Genius of Konoha

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    I don't think he's borrowing chakra. He's just focusing his energy and "powering up". Just like Jiraiya had to do for Ma and Pa
     
  22. Judecious Active Member

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    No, he likely didn't have the monster chakra like Jman and Naruto or he was more of the finesse type.
     
  23. PrazzyP HxH is life

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    what was so intense about that battle, it was just minato wtfpwning madara :LOS :zaru
     
  24. Mistshadow AwEsOmE

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    I think its a big possibility as fukasaku seemed to be very familiar with him. and he had a great relationship with all the toads.
     
  25. SageEnergyMode Active Member

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    Sennin mode is far more than raw power, it's a significant enhancement of literally every aspect of what makes a shinobi strong, including things like speed.

    Taijutsu is powered up.
    Ninjutsu is powered up.
    Genjutsu, if you even use it, that's powered up as well.

    It also makes your body far stronger, more durable, and significantly more resistant to Pain.


    Your level of perception, something that the Sharingan naturally boosts to much greater levels with its abilities, are enhanced to well beyond their usual levels thanks to Sennin Mode. Pa said this during Naruto's fight against Pain.

    X

    So, Naruto in Sennin mode can, in far superior fashion, much more easily recognize the finest of details and react to danger and oncoming threats than he can when he isn't in Sennin Mode.

    I'm surprised, it doesn't appear that many truly realize the significance of what really happened on these pages.

    X
    X

    Naruto's senses or overall perception ability was able to match that of the Six Paths of Pain, something that was very highly praised by Jiraiya and Fukasaku, and was on full display for how powerful it truly was in the fight against Jiraiya. It allowed Pain to flawlessly block and come up with the best possible way to defend against Jiraiya's attacks, even when they were coming entirely from his blind spots.

    Yea, only 5 Pains were looking at Naruto, and not all six, but it doesn't really matter. In the Jiraiya vs Pain fight, we saw just what kinds of things became possible when only one of the Pain bodies had their eyes focused on watching Jiraiya's movements. They were able to form perfect defenses for anything he tried.

    Taking away that advantage from Pain would actually become one of Jiraiya's primary combat strategies against Pain.

    Meanwhile, Sennin Naruto was, incredibly, able to match the perceptive abilities of a total of five combined Pain bodies, literally 5 times that of what Jiraiya had to contend with in much of his fight against Pain, and at its absolute worst, Naruto was, in that very moment, contending with greater than two times what Jiraiya himself had to contend with. The primary reason Naruto didn't directly connect with a punch was because, thanks to the other Pains looking on to aide Preta against Naruto, Preta was able to avoid direct contact with Naruto's fist. However, Naruto by himself was able to accomplish the exact same feat by not allowing Pain's weapon to make contact with him. Sennin Naruto was a match for the combined perceptive abilities of up to 5 pain bodies all sharing a field of vision to watch that very clash between Naruto and Preta Path.

    Even Kakashi, a Sharingan user, wasn't able to avoid getting stabbed by Pain's weapon in close range combat. That unbelievable increase in Naruto's perceptive abilities is also what allowed him to pull off incredibly skillful things such as this.

    X

    This is all when the strongest Pain body is coming right at Naruto and was focused exclusively on Naruto, that's mighty impressive indeed.
     
  26. Dark Red Z PROBLEM?

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    If Minato had SM, I'd think Madara would be more than appropriate to unleash it on, or if not that, to acknowledge to himself that it wouldn't work.
     
  27. Divinstrosity Itachi: God Of The Gods.

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    What I said had nothing to do with what it could have done for him. You give ANY shinobi SM and it would enhance what they have.

    However, power-ups are used to compensate for deficiencies in this story. Not necessarily SEVERE deficiencies, but Naruto nor Jiraiya would have been considered extremely fast or strong, BUT Kishimoto insisted on putting them up against shinobi who were superior.

    Imagine Jiraiya trying to fight Pain without SM. He would have been slaughtered. He may not have needed it against other high level shinobi, but SM closed the gap of power enough to make the battle competitive.

    Now...

    Imagine Naruto trying to battle Pain without SM. Once again, it would not have been pretty.

    Minato?

    The dude is powerful and talented enough to compete at an extremely high level without any sort of power-up to enhance his abilities. It's no knock on Jiraiya or Naruto really, because Naruto is chasing his father, and Jiraiya already considered him one of the rarest of shinobi.

    Summons and power-ups are used for characters who NEED assistance.

    Did Minato use a summon against Madara? No. Why? He didn't need it. It's that simple.

    Did he show up with a summon against the Kyuubi? Yes. Why? He needed assistance for something he could not do on his own - or without major difficulty.

    Why did Sasuke use CS against Itachi? He needed the enhances it provides to push him over the top.

    Why did he power-up against the Sound 4 with CS? He needed it.

    Why did Naruto and Sasuke power-up at the VoTE? They both needed the increase, otherwise one wasn't really going to defeat the other.

    Kishimoto is consistent with his portrayals of characters....for the most part. As Jiraiya was not a genjutsu type, he gave him Ma and Pa who had a powerful genjutsu. That's why he used those summons so much. Jiraiya was a powerful shinobi, but against high level shinobi, he was not gifted enough to battle them on equal footing. It's not just a STYLE of fighting, it's used to compensate for lack of ability.

    Where was the summon against Konan? He didn't need it.

    When did he start using them?

    When Pain started to overwhelm him.

    Why did he use it against Itachi and Kisame? He realized that taking on those two without assistance would not be in his best interest.

    I said ALL OF THAT TO SAY, Kishimoto writes his story a certain way. It's clear that, while Minato would have benefited from SM, Kishimoto didn't feel like a shinobi of his caliber needed it. Now, if he had fought someone like RS, he would have to use SOMETHING to compensate for the gap. However, how many shinobi in this manga can say they're more talented than Minato?

    Very, very, few.
     
  28. Gentle Fist B-Rock's Homeboy

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    I feel like he would have used it against Madara if he had it, so no, I dont think he did
     
  29. Judecious Active Member

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    How would SM help vs Madara? Being strong physically is useless vs the guy so he used a ST jutsu(best way to counter him)
     
  30. Naruko Administrator

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    We never have seen any indication or mention of him training on Mt Myoboku and we *are* told the oil used in learning the technique is only available there and that Jiraiya himself traveled to MM between missions to practice.

    It's be neat if he had it, but he seems to have lived during war time so I don't know that he had the luxury to go off and train. Only thing I'm sure of is he had a frog contract, but I don't think he had sage mode. Every time Naruto did well with his training, he was compared to surpassing Jiraiya, not Minato.
     
  31. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    OK, let me show you why your argument is still flawed. You claim Minato did not need sage mode because he did not have severe deficiencies. However, that is based on ONE skirmish. During that one fight Minato does not show any genjutsu skills. He may well not have had any genjutsu prowess. Having sage mode would have fixed this. Minato was not a physically strong individual, having sage mode would have fixed this as well. What would Minato do if he fought Orochimaru or raikage? Orochimaru would keep regenerating from his attacks and raikage is arguably faster than him. Clearly sage mode would fix both these issues for him.

    Just because a character has top tier talent does not mean he has no need for summons or power-ups. Sasuke is top tier in ninjutsu, has strong genjutsu and above average taijutsu. He is strong enough to be a kage in any village. Yet, he needed a summon to escape one of Danzou's attacks. What jutsu one needs is determined by the opponent's arsenal not one's overall level. Minato for his godly skills would struggle against certain opponents.
     
  32. Divinstrosity Itachi: God Of The Gods.

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    Did you read what I said?

    Jiraiya and Naruto are not portrayed as great geniuses in this story. They are great DESPITE their natural abilities, because they worked hard and also found ways to compensate.

    Sasuke, on the other hand, is considered a great genius, and obviously would rely on summons a lot less.

    If you will notice, the most talented characters of this story relied a lot less on power-ups and summons.

    It's only when shit gets overwhelming do ANY character rely on some form of power-up.

    Why did Itachi pull out Susano'o when Sasuke used Kirin? He surely as hell wasn't going to block it any other way. Because he lacked the ability to block it any other way, he had to compensate by summoning a god that provided him a great defense.

    It was simply not Kishimoto's desire to portray Minato as a shinobi dependent on anyone but himself, with the exception of rare occasions(i.e. against the Kyuubi).

    Why do you never see one-on-one battles against fodder and a named GREAT shinobi? Because the bigger the gap in power, the more assistance is needed. That's why fodder roll in teams. The is true across the board.

    If you look back over the story, you'll realize that what I say is true.

    Edit: As for Minato's genjutsu defense? It's my opinion that Minato would have a defense for it. It's the type of character he is. He is the super genius type, and those types rarely have deficiencies in abilities or power. That's just the way the story is written.

    Madara was not a CLEAR superior to Minato, so he didn't need as much to defend against him.

    Why does Minato use Hiraishin? Imagine him trying to accomplish the same tasks with his foot speed. As fast as Minato was, he was not fast enough to duplicate the feats of Hiraishin, so he created something to compensate for what he lacked, relative to what he wanted to accomplish with the jutsu.

    Why did Nagato use Pain? Nagato was emaciated, but was also meant to be portrayed as an EXTREMELY powerful character. How does Kishimoto accomplish this? Provide him with a jutsu named Pain that is extremely durable, and ridiculously powerful. Pain was created to do what Nagato could not do on his own.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  33. Judecious Active Member

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    Pa seems to know Minato very well so it's likely he did train there.

    But you are right on that part.
     
  34. Sharingan-Uchiha I'm in your pocket

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    I don't think so, I don't think he had the chakra for it, can't be certain until there is concrete proof that he was(n't) able to use it.
     
  35. Senjuclan Mori No Senju Ichizoku

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    I read what you said. Unfortunately, it does not make sense though. You do not need to be a genius to need summons or power-ups. Orochimaru was a genius and his whole fighting style revolved around summons and kinjutsu using external powers. Hiruzen was a genius and he ALWAYS fought with his summon. So, DESPITE their genius, they needed summons or external powers to fight with them. Same could be said about Kabuto and nidaime

    How much one relies on summons is not a matter of genius but fighting styles. Orochimaru is a genius and almost always relies on summons while raikage who is not a genius does not rely on summons at all. Your argument simply does not hold water

    Sure. The creator of the strongest jutsu did not relie on summoning dead shinobi. Hiruzen, who was so taltented he could learn 1000's of jutsu without a sharingan was not said to ALWAYS have Enma with him. Orochimaru, a once in a decade genius, was not shown to almost always summon.

    Plus, what do you call power-up? Is the mangekyou sharingan a power-up, yes or no? If it is, Itachi, your hero always relied on it. Without it, he was jounin level.

    Sure, tell that to Hiruzen and Orochimaru.

    Again, this is why your whole argument is invalid. You are saying that under some circumstances, even top tier ninjas need power-ups to compensate for their base skills. Yet, you turn around and claim that Minato did not need sage mode. That means that you think Minato was not deficient in ANY category, which is clearly wrong

    Irrelevant to whether or not he needed sage mode.

    I have shown you that what you say is wrong. Being talented or strong is a question of fighting style. Nagato had magic eyes that allowed him to learn any jutsu he chose. Yet, he relied on dead bodies to fight for him. Orochimaru was praised as a once in a decade genius. Yet, he relied on summons to fight. Same thing with Hiruzen.
     
  36. Karpatti69 Rank should be shown, not told

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    Allow me to set the record straight. Yes, it is possible for Minato To have had Sennin Mode. He probably didn't, but I would not be suprised if he did. The teleportation technique he used required high amounts of chakra, so yes, he did have a lot of stamina, but that doesn't mean he trained with the toads.
    Now, about Madara. He. Is. Dead. Get over it. Tobi is Obito[/I], not Madara. Maybe Madara has integrated himself into Obito like Orochimaru did to Kabuto, but I don't think Tobi is just Madara. Feel free to comment and share your views.
     
  37. Chibason Sofa King Fresh

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    ^Check it out. A rare 'Tobitoist' has appeared. :nuts
     
  38. Larry Uchiha Elite

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    Doesn't Sage Mode take a lot of time to gather the energy, time Minato didnt had.
     
  39. Wrath Mourning

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    He almost certainly didn't have it, or else Naruto would have been directly compared to him when he did his training as he was to Jiraiya.

    But that's not to say that he definitely would not have attained it in the future. As Jiraiya's apprentice and someone familiar with Ma and Pa, he probably would have completed Senjutsu training eventually. He died awfully young, after all, and we don't know exactly what age Jiraiya was when he became a Sage.
     
  40. bug_ninja Bug

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    I don't think so, simply because he didn't need it and a genius like Minato probably liked to rely more on himself and use his own original jutsu.
     
  41. King Scoop Active Member

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    Minato was still young, and he had been fighting in the 3rd ninja war. He probably didn't have time to truly train. Besides they thought he'd have decades left to live, so there was really no rush. He most likely went through the basics of trying to gather natural energy, but no further than that. But if he had lived, he would have mastered it by now.
     
  42. Brawnie Member

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    when naruto stood before the Six paths of Pain,
    The little toad fellow Fukasaku said: 'Did you see those Frog-Fu Techniques, On that matter naruto has passed those who came before him'.
    And then you see naruto with a reflection of both jiraiya as Yondaime..
    Proving that minato (yondaime) HAD sage mode, but weaker then naruto's..

    EDIT: reason he didn't use it often was probably because just like jiraiya he needed a lot of time to summon the elder toads and thus not being practicle in battle.. Its probably minato's ultimate move and he doesn't use it that quikly.. Besides it doesn't really fit his fighting style.
    BUT he DID have the technique, no doubt about it
     
  43. gawsome sexy no jitsu expert

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    Didnt need it some people are saying?

    Eh? Sensing powers, uber strength, superb resilience, amplification of all jutsu? Speed increase - OK he has Hiraishin but that does have weaknesses and Im sure a base speed increase will never go amiss.

    In addition, he may have been able to complete his rasengan with sage mode.

    And Minato wouldn't have the problem of staying still for 5 mins, or whatever, in the middle of a fight to gather natural energy. He could Hiraishin to safety, enter SM then Hiraishin back - harder, better, faster, stonger.


    But no he didn't have it, in my opinion. Due to the aforementioned conditions for use of SM - Jiraiya and Naruto's huge chakra pool.
     

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