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Democrats Beware: Sanders ‘Movement’ Turns to Midterms

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Normality, Mar 20, 2017 at 5:38 PM.

Will groups like Justice Democrats make a difference in 2018/2020?

  1. Yes, they are organizing and look promising.

    25.0%
  2. No, their efforts will fall by the way side as have other movements.

    31.3%
  3. We'll see.

    43.8%
  1. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/de...eware-sanders-movement-turns-midterms-n735301 (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/democrats-vs-trump/democrats-beware-sanders-movement-turns-midterms-n735301)

    The establishment is salty and scared.:bookerskully
     
  2. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Yeah, this'll beat Trump and the Republicans. MORE divisions from Sanders and his cult.
     
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  3. Onyx Darkmatter Enigmatic Shogun

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    I hope that they're prepared for what's to come. Democrats need to get their shits together before Midterm Election, and if they can't oblige to any change, then they might as well as turn the political platform into a One-Party System. :catprone
     
  4. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    Wow, you are truly deluded. lmao
     
  5. Flow hahahahaha

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    Yeah! Keep snubbing your base Democrats! That will sure keep everyone within the party together! Unity!

    BREAK DOWN THE BARRIERS


    #I'mWithHer
     
  6. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    I'm not. I see the threat and all YOU guys want to do is continue to divide us in the sake of Left Purity.What makes you any different than the Trump side? Your so focused on ideological purity you ignore the literal enemies at the gates since as far as your concerned, your purity is the only thing that matters. Compromise is something you guys despise since again, it hurts your purity.

    Seriously, instead of working together to defeat Trump and the Republicans in the 2018 elections, you want to throw EVERYTHING under the bus in your selfish purity push.
    More like chose your battles, focus on defeating the Republicans before you want to change the Democratic Party.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 6:28 PM
  7. Orochibuto Well-Known Member

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    Democrats really need to give the middle finger to Wall Street and abandon identity politics.

    But I agree, defeating Trump should be the first goal right now.

    If Democrats put purity before getting him out, then they deserve to see ane be blamed for Trump becoming a dictator.
     
  8. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Exactly. Defeat Trump and the Republicans first, move on to these issues next.
     
  9. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    Did Bernie Sanders even have an actual plan for what he would do when he became President? Has Sanders himself ever talked about what he planned to accomplish in the long term other than "DEMOCRATS NEED TO REFORM!"

    If you want to reform the Democrats, then do so by earning the cooperation of the party itself. Don't set yourselves up behind an Independent who, as a Democrat only in name, has antagonized the Democrats over every set-back he has received.

    Purity is meaningless if you just hand everything over to the Republicans in the process. Beat Trump first, then focus on internal reformation in the party.
     
  10. GaaraoftheDesert1 commemorating failure

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    I ve already said in the other thread, that the democrats prefer to lose with someone like Hillary than win with someone like Sanders, because they are in the pockets of the big banks.
    Anyway I believe that some of Bernie's marxist ideas which were considered scary 30 years ago will prevail in the end.
     
  11. reiatsuflow Well-Known Member

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    Sanders' proposals were roughly as plausible as Trump's. That he seems to be a more intelligent, consistent, principled man is important. But I still want centrists like obama. Not these charismatic extremists.
     
  12. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Sadly, the people who are supporting these 'Justice Democrats' don't think that way. They want purity first, defeating Trump second. Does the Democratic Party need reform? Yes it does (though not as drastic as some of what Sanders wants). But right now, Trump and the Republicans are the literal greater threats. We're going to probably permanently lose for the foreseeable future:

    1. Medicaid
    2. Medicare
    3. Affordable Healthcare
    4. Public Broadcasting
    5. Gay Marriage
    6. Police Reform

    etc. All due to Sander's cult of personality pushing purity over what is actually happening. Seriously it makes them as deluded as Trump's voting base.
     
  13. Huey Freeman The Gent

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    SSM12 has a point but he presents his case poorly.

    You can't just appeal to far left because they aren't the ones you really need to win.

    You need the independents, moderates, blue color Dems and most importantly the Conservatives who swing their votes. Yes the far left is important but if you drive away the rest I mention then The Repubs still have a strong shot to win.
     
  14. Hozukimaru &#32

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  15. Kiba's Slut Boy World's #1 Kiba Inuzuka Fanboy

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    lol.

    At least you guys are optimistic about continuing to lose :mahbama
     
  16. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Trump's pick for the Supreme Court has already been an opponent for marriage equality.
     
  17. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    The Bernie hate squad in here. Keep hating :hestonpls
     
  18. Dragon D. Luffy You can only cry when it's all over.

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    Beware?

    This is a godsend.

    Democracts aren't winning jack shit without the left.
     
  19. Dragon D. Luffy You can only cry when it's all over.

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    What USA calls "far left" is what the rest of the world calls "center".
     
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  20. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    And what we have now is essentially people (like Normality) who want to alienate the centrists and moderates in favor of pandering for the Far Left which isn't sustainable. And Normality, seriously did someone hack your account? You weren't this obstinate a few months ago.

    Edit: And let me guess, you two keep disliking my posts while having nothing to counter. You are so fucking sticking to ideological purity, you want to throw the entire nation under the bus due to your selfishness and immaturity.
     
  21. Dragon D. Luffy You can only cry when it's all over.

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    People aren't as ideological as you think. They want practical results.

    Trump won by promising jobs.

    Sanders was a competitive candidate by promising social policies.

    Hilary lost because she represented the estabilishment who has failed to convince people it can give them the results they want.

    The dems aren't winning unless they can convince they represent what the left actually means: reducing social inequality.
     
  22. reiatsuflow Well-Known Member

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    And we want to keep it that way.

    Spoiler:
    until the bitter end
     
  23. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Actually Bernie's fans are ideological purity pushers. They've became the equivalent of Trump supporters and the Tea Party for the Left.

    Sanders wasn't really competitive. He alienated African Americans and Latino voters, hell he alienated women voters too and talked down to them. And he lost overwhelmingly to Hillary in the primary, that's the simple fact there. Hillary lost since she focused on red states instead of shoring up support in Blue (She completely ignored Pennsylvania and Michigan, focusing on turning GEORGIA blue).
     
  24. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    What? No. Hillary won African-Americans over because of that Clinton name, and the same with most Latino Democrats. Hillary also fared poorly with young women, where Sanders did not. She did well against older women, yet again, a lot of this was due to her established national image, not Sanders alienating anyone.

    I.E. SHE ALIENATED VOTERS
     
  25. GaaraoftheDesert1 commemorating failure

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    Supersayiaman your argument is retarded. I hope you are getting paid for writing this garbage.
    Bernie literally destroyed Hillary in the swing states she lost like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, he didnt alienate shit.
    The one alienating people was Hillary with her corporate donors who were fucking over the middle class, her identity politics and her lack of real policies.
     
  26. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    No shit. Thats why she lost Michigan and Pennsylvania. I said Sanders alienated voters from voting for HIM, not voting for Hillary.
     
  27. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    But you're wrong. Hillary had estabilished cred, Sanders did not. That was the difference maker.
     
  28. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    So what did Sanders do to get centrist voters to vote for him then, Seto? What did he do to try to sway African American and Latino voters from Hillary? All over Primary Season, I only remember him trying to get the support from the Millennial crowd, and sticking mostly to white blue states.
     
  29. ~M~ Neuromancer

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    To start a movement we all need to become part of it
     
  30. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    He tried plenty, but they just were not going to come out for him compared to Hillary. A lot millennials are black, latino, and women you know? As a democrat he was going to win their votes if he was candidate, and he also did very well in the demographic that cost Hillary the election. So consider that too.
     
  31. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    I tore you a new asshole like 2 weeks ago over Bernie. That shit hasnt even healed yet and you're asking for more.
     
  32. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    But again, Sanders stuck to mostly white blue states.

    What cost Hillary the election were blue collared voters in Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Millennials didn't vote at all in overwhelming numbers (and hadn't voted in a way even during Obama's term). Sanders spent most of his energy on a voting block that is so unreliable he wouldn't have won the national election. He appealed only to Millennials and the Far left, he didn't offer anything to centrist voters while claiming he'd do a lot for blue collared ones, but he never really extrapolated well there.
     
  33. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    No you didn't. I even replied to you (after I got back from work) and you didn't address my counter. And newsflash Normality: I voted for Bernie in the primary, but I didn't join the cult like you did.
     
  34. Seto Kaiba God Hand Crusher

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    Yes. A demographic Sanders fared very well with.
     
  35. Nimura Furuta Super Peace

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    If the Dems win the election as they are now, they won't change. They'll think that they can keep getting away with the shit that they do.

    This party seems to be nothing more than a lost cause for now.
     
  36. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Which is why he only won one of those states I mentioned though, right? If he did so well with that demographic, why didn't he win Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan instead of just winning Michigan (which to be fair was a big unexpected upset).
     
  37. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    This is pretty much how the Far Right got started in the first place: extremists on one end gradually pushing away the center people and the moderates in favor of extreme ideologies. And while Trump was "make America great again", Bernie was "reform the Democrats". What makes the two different from each other is that they are on the opposite far ends of the political spectrum. Other than, there was little difference in how they styled their platforms.

    In that sense, Hillary was arguably the closest to the Center compared to Bernie and Donald.
     
  38. Cyphon Brotherhood of the Beard

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    It seems to me like they need to find a balance.
    I seem to remember Sanders giving up the mic for 2 black women to get on stage and say something and IIRC he went into a black neighborhood, to a black barber shop, and had a 1 on 1 with a rapper named Killer Mike. It doesn't get much realer than that. Meanwhile Hillarys pandering ass tells a black radio station she always has hot sauce in her purse.

    Not saying that is the end all be all but Sanders seems like the realest candidate we have seen for a long time and this is coming from someone who doesn't even necessarily support him. Seems to me like people just didn't get comfortable enough it time to make the switch from the status quo (specifically on the left between Sanders and Hillary) and so Sanders still struggled. His machine just wasn't big enough to compete. Obviously I can't speak for the black community but this comes from what I saw and what I got from discussions with my black friends. Not a single one of them liked Hillary.

    I kind of rambled there I guess but the point is, I feel like when Sanders got his message heard he definitely connected with those communities. Way more than Hillary in fact. Like I said though, people know the Clinton name and her political power is so much bigger than Sanders.
     
  39. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    because it was full of trash and points that I already refuted.
     
  40. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    No you never refuted it. Normality you've become an extremist in such a short time, I really think your account has been hacked. This isn't you.
     
  41. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    ....you need to take your meds.
     
  42. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Says the person who was doing and acting a lot differently all up until a few weeks ago, then you started jumping on Bernie's dick and professing your love of the Far Left.
     
  43. CrazyAries Truth Hurts

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    Wow, this article is just dripping with sarcasm and contempt.

    The last paragraph:

    Cenk Uygur was already involved in politics. Hence his network, his appearance on MSNBC, and the Wolf PAC.

    And wasn't the "Rally for Sanity" a satire of a Glenn Beck Rally?
     
  44. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    it is and its hilarious.
     
  45. Normality The best that ever lived :3

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    You must seriously be on another planet. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A BERNIECRAT. I ALSO HEAVILY CRITICIZED HRC AND ONLY VOTED FOR HER BECAUSE I WAS FORCED TO ESSENTIALLY. Stop telling me what is normal for me when you clearly dont bother to pay too much attention. jesus
     
  46. CrazyAries Truth Hurts

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    It will be should the progressive wing in the party prevail.

    For the record, I hope they do. I have looked at Justice Democrats' platform and I have a "Wait and See" approach to it. But I would like to see Democrats like Joe Manchin out. He needs to go because not only does he have contempt for Bernie, he has contempt for the voters who have taken him to task for voting for Jeff Fucking Sessions, among other things.

    Also:

    I don't usually agree with Cyphon on politics, but he has a point here.

    Like Seto said, the main draw to Clinton (for black folks) was the name recognition.

    As more people are exposed to Bernie, more have tended to like him. He doesn't talk about race-specific issues, but he doesn't need to. He just addresses the most important issues to a large swath of Americans.
     
  47. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Up until the election, you were speaking sense and were defending HRC a hell of a lot. You were also a lot more tactful and respectful to other people then. Now? You're essentially attacking anyone who isn't far left and who doesn't worship Bernie Sanders as their sacred cow. I get it, you're 21, you've been swept up with this thinking its the best thing in the world. But even when you're pointed out that EITHER extreme, far left or far right, is bad, you get angry that people want centrists who can actually work to form compromises. You don't want any compromises, do you? Its your way or the highway right? How is that any different from a Trump voter on the Far Right? How is that any different from a Tea Partier?
     
  48. Death Arcana XIII. The Death

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    Hilary and the establishment dems lost to fucking Trump. They failed epicly and now it's time to get out.
     
  49. SuperSaiyaMan12 The Seventh Hokage's arrived.

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    Right now, we all need to stand together to resist Trump. Not divide upon divide. 'A house divided upon itself cannot stand', has anyone who supports this bullshit ever heard of that quote? Not only that, you have some pretty fucked up priorities if you want to practically kill the progressive movement due to petty infighting and ideological purity.
     
  50. Catalyst75 Well-Known Member

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    The main problem with Sanders is that he is more a philosopher-king than a politician, in the same sense that Trump was a demagogue. The problem with a philosopher-king, I would imagine, is that they could become individuals who "command" people to follow their ideologies, if said ideal is far enough to one side of the political spectrum, rather than being like an actual philosopher who "guides" and "Teaches", much less the philosopher-king of Plato's original vision.

    This is what is going on with the Justice Democrat: they are demanding the need to "purify" the Democrat party, effectively dividing it to the point where they cut away anyone who does not share their ideology, with Sanders being their "philosopher-king".
     

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