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Danzo vs Pain

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by bsteves33, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. bsteves33 Active Member

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    I was reading a thread about how danzo was supposedly = to pain in terms of strength. to me its ridiculous but I guess some people think otherwise.

    Location - VOTE
    Distance - 250 feet
    Knowledge - pain knows danzo is hokage, danzo knows pain is the leader of aktasuki.

    Danzo starts with his arm unwrapped and can use Kotoamatsukami once during the fight. Pain starts with all six paths out and fully functional.

    Note: if the six paths die then nagato will show himself and come out of hiding.

    Personally I think danzo could take out a few paths but in the end pain would win mid diff
     
  2. raizen28 I dunno

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    danzo takes control of one body while pain either massively ST CT or Gedo mazo danzo can put up a good fight but he only has kotoamatsukami and izanagi are his only chances ninjutsu can be absorbed and taijutsu is just soul rip pain can still use summons.

    Pain Mid diff
     
  3. Scorpion GET OVER HERE!

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    Pain wins with low - moderate difficulty. Danzo's most powerful technique, Koto-Amatsu-Kami, is utterly useless against Pain. He cannot actually control the individual Paths as they are dead and controlled by Nagato via chakra.

    Izanagi will only delay the inevitable. Danzo's re-spawn attacks can be dodged, especially with linked vision; Sasuke, who just fought the Raikage, Mizukage, and Tsuchikage, and used Susano'o (which causes pain on a cellular level) was able to evade Danzo's attacks. Almost all of his attacks are Fuuton, so this is where Preta Path and Deva Path will be the most important. The Paralysis Seal will be of little use as well, considering a large release of chakra will break it, and the Konoha ANBU commented on Deva Path's powerful chakra. The Baku Summon is dealt with easily by the bird summon or by Asura Path's Flaming Arrow Missiles. Deva Path can one-shot it via Shinra Tensei if necessary. If Human Path ever manages to grab a hold of Danzo, then Pain will practically gain full knowledge on Danzo's abilities, including his last resort Fuinjutsu. Even if Danzo manages to defeat the main bodies, Deva Path, Preta Path, and Asura Path, Naraka Path should be able to restore them without much trouble; Danzo has no knowledge, and will be preoccupied with the more offensive Paths and summons.

    If by some heavenly miracle Danzo defeats Pain Rikudo, he'll be in no shape to fight Nagato, crippled or not. By that time, he'd have exhausted nearly all of his Izanagi, and Shisui's eye will not be active for at least another 30 minutes - 1 hour. Nagato will destroy him with Deva Path and Preta Path. Gedo Mazo only ensures Danzo's defeat.
     
  4. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    It's not that ridiculous. At all. Danzō can't die for ten minutes, and if he uses Konoamatsukami on Deva Path, then he can win. One giant Shinra Tensei would frazzle the rest of Pain and Danzō is much stronger than any individual realm.
     
  5. Cole Electric Man

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    This battle can go either way, really.

    This is just a basic idea of what could happen; I haven't factored in Koto Amatsukami's effectiveness or Danzo's susceptibility to being sealed (a much debated topic).

    A) If Danzo can take out Naraka his chances of winning increase dramatically. The next ones he should take out are Deva and Preta (who can block Danzo's offense). The other Paths can only attempt to make Danzo waste Izanagi; otherwise they're not a threat. TL:DR Danzo wins if he takes out the Paths that can stall and block his onslaught.

    B) If Pain can stall long enough for Izanagi to run out (by keeping Naraka the hell away from Danzo), he wins.
     
  6. Scorpion GET OVER HERE!

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    How would Koto-Amatsu-Kami work on Pain if he has no mind? Nagato is controlling them at a far away distance, so controlling him is out of the equation as well.
     
  7. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    We've seen illusions work on Pain. Or, to be more accurate, Nagato himself, because the paths don't have minds. Both cases are a win for Danzō.
     
  8. Katana King Rogue Slayer

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    Konoamatsukami is useless as it would have to control Nagato to have any effect on the Paths. Pain easily destroys Baku with Cereberus and negates any Fuuton with ST or absorbtion.

    Especially since he has no knowledge Danzo will be hard pressed to find an opening to kill the bodies. Izanagi can easily be countered by Shared Vision watching all blind spots and if he gets stabbed with a Chakra disruption blade it's a non factor. Eventually Danzo sucumbs to Pain's overwhelmng firepower and gets soul ripped.

    Pain wins low diff
     
  9. Deshi Basara OUT FOR A FEW WEEKS, SEE YA

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    That's not necessary.Danzo doesn't have the means to take paths like Deva (that survived a beating from SM Naruto, 6 tails and Bijuu-dama) or Gedo Mazo.

    Also, if paths really need to be revived and Hell's out, Nagato can do it himself.
     
  10. Turrin 玄武

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    If this is a response to my thread I never said Danzo = Nagato + Pain Rikudo, I said Danzo is equal in strength to just Pain and under the circumstances were Naruto fought Pain versus the circumstances that MS Sasuke fought Danzo, I.E. the match up should look like this

    Danzo vs Pain

    State of Mind: Danzo has killer intent and Pain doesn't

    Distance: Ether Sasuke vs Danzo or Naruto vs Pain doesn't matter

    Knowledge: Danzo has full knowledge and Pain has none

    Conditions: Danzo starts with his seal undone. Deva is recharging and so is Shisui's eye, both will become active after roughly 10min

    Though I do believe that Danzo could give Pain a run for his money even given your conditions, but he would loose at Nagato for sure.
     
  11. PassionateStoic Dark Path

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    Danzo's biggest disadvantage against Pain is his lack of taijutsu. Without taijutsu Pain only needs two bodies, the Deva and Preta paths. Preta can absorb any Danzo throws at him and Deva can produce an offense onslaught while being completely protected. The reason Naruto was able to beat Pain was because he could dismantle one of Pain's bodies with a single blow, not having to risk his ninjutsu being absorbed.
     
  12. Scorpion GET OVER HERE!

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    Except Nagato himself didn't appear in the Magen: Gamarinshou illusion, nor was he directly affected.

    The most I can see Koto-Amatsu-Kami doing is overriding Nagato's control over a body and rendering it useless (since without Nagato its dead, so mind control won't come into play). However, Naraka Path can revive it and Nagato can simply re-boot it.
     
  13. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    His illusory appearance is irrelevant to me. His mind was speaking from inside the cube binding. Hence his mind was inside the cube binding.
     
  14. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    No, Nagato was speaking through the physical bodies of the Realms, just like how Orochimaru spoke in the physical world when bound by Magen: Kasegui, and Itachi and Kurenai when bound by Jibaku Satsu.

    If it was Itachi controlling the Realms, you'd argue to hell and back he was safe from the Genjutsu.
     
  15. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    Their physical bodies had their motor functions "completely X," which means they can't physically speak. That is distinct from the other two binding genjutsu, which make you perceive spikes or trees inhibiting movement.
     
  16. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    So it's a good thing they had someone else to speak through them instead.

    I don't see Nagato in there. And why does Nagato say Naruto got closer to beating Pain in that case?

    Right, I forgot. You're not really debating an honest point. You're trying to downplay a character you hate.
     
  17. bsteves33 Active Member

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    I don't see danzo beating or tying against pain unless the factors of the fight r heavily in his favor. pain is far stronger, he outclasses danzo by a solid full tier.
     
  18. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    So he physically spoke through their paralyzed vocal chords, tongues, and lips?

    Why does Nagato say Jiraiya would have won had he known the real one wasn't there? Probably because the genjutsu actually worked on Nagato, but was released prematurely when Jiraiya thought he had won. X.

    There is no need to be petty.
     
  19. bullsh3t Active Member

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    What will Kotoamatsukami do? Pain will FUCK DANZO UP!!! once Pain hits Danzo with one of these
    X
    Danzo will lose control of his chakara
    X
    LOL Pain with little-mid difficulty
     
  20. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    Bringing this in when as has been pointed out, Nagato did not appear in the genjutsu world, just the three Pains shown hit by it? Not only that, Orochimaru apparently spoke when 'wholly' paralyzed with giant stakes driven through him.

    Nagato can still fight. Oh, and Ma and Pa were never shown 'releasing' a Genjutsu with any kai , so by your logic he should still be trapped.
     
  21. Sadgoob Editing Specialist

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    Kasegui never claims to 'wholly' paralyze an individual. Hence your use of single quotation marks, as opposed to actual quotations. It is said to take away the general "freedom to move," because of perceiving spikes in the body.

    It's distinct from paralyzed nerves and not being able to move an inch.
     
  22. bullsh3t Active Member

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    Pain chakara disruption rods could fuck Danzo up.
    X
    Not easy controlling hashirama's power and Pain loves stabbing his opponents with those rods.
     
  23. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    Try talking when you have multiple stakes driven through you. Or a sword obliterating your chest. Sasori and Kakuzu may not even have vocal cords left
     
  24. Akitō Hokage

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    Izanagi wouldn't give Danzō any openings because of Pain's shared vision. It really comes down to whether or not Kotoamatsukami would work on Deva Pain, and through proxy, Nagato. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is, so I'm not going to declare a winner.

    I don't think Danzō's on the level of Pain, but he's definitely a top tier fighter. The real issue with fighting Pain is his relentlessness. Without knowledge, you could go the entire fight exhausting yourself just to incapacitate the five "fighter" bodies, only for them to all be revived within a few seconds. You may know of Pain's ability to resurrect now, but you've depleted your chakra reserves. Essentially, you're finished the very moment you decide to focus on the front-line paths.

    Danzō's got a similar ability in Izanagi, but his base skills aren't as good as Pain's. That's the main difference between the two. Against Danzō, you would be lucky to survive the first resurrection due to the surprise factor. Against Pain, you would be lucky to even reach the first resurrection.

    Kotoamatsukami makes things a little more complicated, but I'd still have to side with Pain. It's unbelievably effective when Danzō's pitted against a single individual, but that doesn't apply to when he's faced with a multitude of individuals. Moreover, Danzō can only use it once a day. If he's confronted by another fighter after its first use, like he was in the manga, then he's got to fight in an ordinary fashion.

    In a straight one versus one fight in which there are no interruptions, I'd say that Danzō's as effective as Pain due to Kotoamatsukami. If the circumstances are manipulated though, Pain's got the edge: he's the more versatile fighter (jutsu), so if he's matched with unusual variables, he'll fair better than Danzō would.
     
  25. Big Mom The Sweet Tooth Yonkou

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    I agree with this. However, I feel it all depends on if Danzo uses it from the start or if he waits a bit to see which Path is stronger. If he waits, then surely he will take control of the Deva Path. However, if he just uses it from the getgo, then he may not take over Deva Path and thus would take over one of the weaker Paths. Danzo can surely take out some of the Paths by himself, as without Deva Path blocking his ninjutsu with Shinra Tensei, that would only leave Preta Path, though his absorption couldn't absorb every single fuuton. Personally, I think Danzo would probably use Kotoamatsukami right off the bat, simply because he would know not to underestimate the Akatsuki Leader.
     
  26. Empathy Disciple of Thunder

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    Kotoamatsukami would accomplish nothing as the Paths aren't sentient, with individuality. They're just manipulated corpses, Nagato uses as a muse to attack.
     
  27. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    I believe an issue I see is that Kotoamatsukami works via implantation of suggestions in the mind. Itachi and Ao have both described it as making it so the victim doesn't realize they're being controlled and the mind control effective makes them commit an act they think is their own will. The issue is, as Empathy points out, is you can't really do that to the Pains. They don't have sentient brains on their own. Rather, they're meat puppets controlled by Nagato's chakra while Nagato is presumably long away from the range of any Genjutsu to be used.

    YOu can't make the Pains think anything as Nagato will just keep them moving.
     
  28. Step Aside Haters Banned

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    They're innately connected to Nagato, and the receives sensory information from them.

    The Pein technique is a rare exception to the rules of chakra - it's being transferred for miles. But just as the Moon Eye Plan has a loophole concerning distance, so Pein is a loophole concerning distance - and any sensory info is transmitted.
     
  29. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    Pain and damage aren't transmitted back. There's no reason to believe it transmits the enemy's chakra back like that for Genjutsu.
     
  30. Raisingfalcon Banned

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    Shared vision wont let an opening for izanagi. The paths are way faster. Preta abosrbs futton. Shusui eye dosent work as it controls a unit by free will but the thing is the paths are dead and they are being controled. Baku would get ceburus thrown at him. Pain wait out the 10 minutes then proceeds to win. Pain wins.
     
  31. Empathy Disciple of Thunder

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    No, they're corpses which are manipulated through Nagato's Chakra. They don't have individual minds or thought process, so that can't be manipulated, if it's not present to begin with. If they were connected to Nagato innately then he would have been shown within Magen: Gamarinshou. They don't have individual minds, or minds to begin with, let alone linked or not, because a manipulated dead body has none of these. And what isn't present to begin with, can't be manipulated.
     
  32. joshhookway Better than Kage

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    Danzo can use Koto on Nagato and win
     
  33. Lightysnake Niku still has bad taste

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    Nagato's nowhere in range for that
     
  34. Turrin 玄武

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    Pain or rather Nagato is a poor match up for Danzo because of how he fights, I.E. using multiple corpse bodies while Nagato is safe miles away hurts the effectiveness of Kotoamatsukami a-lot. Just because Danzo can't beat Pain doesn't mean he is a full tier bellow him, we have to look at how he'd perform against other opponents. Danzo like Pain can pretty much beat everyone in the series so far with the exception of Madara and Kabuto [with edo Tensei]. In-fact Danzo would have a better chance of beating Kabuto than Pain considering that he could use Kotoamatsukami to mind control Kabuto into releasing Edo Tensei.

    So while I do believe Nagato + Pain Rikudo > Danzo, I think that Danzo is nearly as lethal of an enemy as Pain to face in battle for most Ninja
     
  35. joshhookway Better than Kage

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    Nagato has to be near Pain to control them. If Danzo finds out, he could control Nagato
     
  36. Corax Active Member

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    Pain is a bad match for Danzo. They have no mind (so cant be affected by mind-manipulation) and their collective teamwork/physical attributes/summons and jutsu strength are way greater than his. Pain with med diff.
     
  37. Googleplex Banned

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    Too much against Danzo.

    Logistically Kotoamatsukami should be utterly useless against Pain, they have no mind to control nor does Genjutsu chakra travel back to Nagato- meaning Danzo is bound to waste Kotoamatsukami trying to control a dead being.

    Pain should put Danzo near death constantly, shared vision should prevent any sneak attacks on Danzo's end.
    Danzo will run into trouble no matter what he does:
    - his summon could be tackled by Pain's own.
    - his Fuuton aren't very useful with the Preta Realm around.
    - Kotoamatsukami is useless.

    So his only hope is to tag a curse seal on Pain, now this depends on a few things, can Danzo touch Pain in hand to hand combat with the shared vision factor? Further, Danzo will be constantly under pressure due to the depletion of Sharingan eyes on his arm.
    It may get to the point where Danzo has to sacrifice Shisui's eye, which would be dangerous as he'll have no more 'lives' left.

    On top of that, if Danzo does manage to get through Pain, he will be tired and exhausted: Nagato would do the Shinra Tensei he used to handle Bee, Naruto and Itachi to shortly handle Danzo.
    But going by the nature of Pain Rikudou's battle with Danzo, imo, Danzo won't make it to Nagato.

    Pain wins.
     
  38. Danzo123 Member

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    Danzo could win this very easily if i am correct. His genjutsu would affect Nagato directly, and here is why:
    The paths are much more than just puppets. Nagato can see trough them and hear trough them. Also when he fought Jiraya, if Nagato himself wasnt affected by the frog genjutsu then why was it shown that the paths were incappacitated? If they were just mere wooden puppets Nagato could have still used them. However, he didnt so this indicates he was himself affected by the genjutsu.
     
  39. Raisingfalcon Banned

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    Shared vision kills any suprise attacks from re spawning with izanagi and he can just be killed over and over with asura and deva. Lazer blast or drag and pierce. His futtons are microscopic in comparison vs preta and baku would suck vs any other summoning in pains aresenal like ceburus.

    The only way i see Danzo winning is if he uses Shusui's eye( if its allowed) it might have the same effect it had with endo tensai and over right Nagato's control over the paths of pain. It can cause them to shut down and danzo wins by default but its a long shot.
     
  40. Tomaru Hatake Mastermind of Akatsuki

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    Yeah I agree with those above Pain wins he just outlasts danzo old ass
     

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