1. The Konoha Kennel is back! As a subsection to the Chatterbox, discuss your favorite fauna-related topics at a fun and laid-back pace. From animals to zoos, it's your one-stop destination for critter lovers!

Byakuya vs. Soifon

Discussion in 'Bleach Battledome' started by Zaelapolopollo, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. Zaelapolopollo Master of the Fates of Arda

    Messages:
    15,817
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Scenario 1:

    Both start at base levels

    Scenario 2:

    Byakuya starts at Bankai, Soifon at Shikai.

    I just don't think Soifon's Bankai would ad much here...it would hinder her if anything. If you disagree, you may alter Scenario 2 so it's Bankai vs. Bankai.
     
  2. Waking Dreamer Dreamer King

    Messages:
    4,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Byakuya takes both at most with moderate difficulty imo.
     
  3. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Soi Fon probably beats him with Shunko in the first scenario but the second is nearly rape in Byakuya's favour.
    I don't think her bankai will help a whole lot, but at least she will be able to injure Byakuya so I guess it's moderate difficulty. How she is going to set up is what I have no idea of, though, since OP didn't specify the distance etc.
     
  4. Waking Dreamer Dreamer King

    Messages:
    4,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Idk. Soifons Shunko was way inferior to Yoruichi's who on the bridge stated at her current state (the one that Soifon still couldnt beat) couldn't defeat Byakuya...
     
  5. Aggressor .

    Messages:
    4,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Her base body alone is more superior than Byakuya, she has more speed and physical strength and I doubt Byakuya could handle her with shunko activated.
     
  6. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    well byakuya is one of the strongest captains, when soifon is quite weak compared to some of the other captains. byakuya would win the 1st scenario mid-hig difficulty and 2nd scenario with mid- difficulty.
     
  7. Waking Dreamer Dreamer King

    Messages:
    4,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Fair enough...but they only start in base form. With both at base I doubt Soifon can speed blitz Byakuya, and if she does go Shunko, Byakuya can always go bankai. Though not sure if OP wants them to stay in base for scenario 1 (does shunko equal base?).
     
  8. Aggressor .

    Messages:
    4,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    No he isn't, he was deafeted by SS Ichigo? Furthermore how is he better in base than Soi Fon? Soi Fon has better speed and strength and has far more maneuvers than Byakuya. Byakuya's swordmanship skills and hand-to-hand skills are not very good and I don't see him being able to land a major blow on Soi Fon.

    Even without Shunko she has far more better skills in base than Byakuya and Shunko is allowed, base simply means they cannot release.
     
  9. Sajin Komamura Death Dog

    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Bankai Byakuya can take out SoFail SoiFon in any scenario you can possibly think of even with shunkou. I will however say that I believe she gets a sufficient enough boost with shunkou to defeat Shikai Byakuya, but thats about it.

    Her Bankai hinders her chances of winning IMO.
     
  10. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Soifon's Battle Data. Offense (80), Defense (60), Mobility (100), Kidō/Reiatsu (60), Intelligence (60), Physical Strength (100). Total: 460/600.

    Byakuya's Battle Data. Offense (90), Defense (80), Mobility (90), Kidō/Reiatsu (90), Intelligence (90), Physical Strength (70). Total: 510/600

    and well obviously byakuya will loose to ichigo... zaraki lost to ichigo too and soifon would have lost too. byakuya is just all around a better fighter than soifon. and ichigo would have lost to byakuya if he didn't have the hollow transformation which he uses to win most fights.
     
  11. Aggressor .

    Messages:
    4,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    You have yet to answer my question, how is Byakuya better in base than Soi Fon and take note that databook stats are not approprriate when comparing base statistics. Additionally the databook statistics are not very accurate, Kenpachi has the lowest entry yet he should be capable of beating people like Mayuri(w/o prep).
     
  12. HargHarg Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Soifon wins the first scenario with mid diff, but loses the second one.
     
  13. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36

    well it says both START at base... but anyways. byakuya has shown great skill using kido, he is among the fastest kido users in bleach. he is also capeable of using high level hado and bakudo without incantations, this gives him a huge advantage, soifon has shown probably 1 bakudo which was Bakudo # 30 Shitotsu Sansen and she did it slower than byakuya when he used Bakudo #61. Rikujokoro and note the 31level difference in the 2 kido spells...
     
  14. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yeah but Byakuya also had bankai and Yoruichi seemed to leave her sword behind.
    If her shunko can't even make her beat base Byakuya then I can only facepalm at its power.
     
  15. Juri Active Member

    Messages:
    4,288
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Aren't they only good for comparing base statistics because abilities are not taken into account?
     
  16. Ava &#32

    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    ur just beggin' for a neggin' :giogio
     
  17. Sajin Komamura Death Dog

    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Sowy... I couldn't help it. :ano
     
  18. Excalibur Cana? Where are you!

    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Byakuya wins both scenario's with mid difficulty. Captain vs Captain are not easy fights, except for Yamamoto and Aizen. Byakuya can put together some kido with his shikai and pull the victory out although with trouble. The second scenario belongs to Byakuya with very little trouble I see.
     
  19. Ava &#32

    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    You best be trolling boy :giogio
     
  20. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yoruichi completely blitzed Byakuya on the bridge back then. Soi Fon is equal/faster than that Yoruichi.

    Soi Fon wins both scenarios through blitzing. Byakuya might be able to pull out a win in a Bankai vs Shikai fight though since the numbers of his Bankai could overwhelm, but it's not likely. In a straight up fight her Bankai is useless since if she tries to fire it from afar Byakuya could raise some petals on the way to him to cause the missile to detonate on collision before the missile even reached him.

    Soi Fon wins all scenarios put forth and would only lose Bankai vs Bankai
     
  21. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This is just plain wrong.
     
  22. Hamaru Semi-Active

    Messages:
    17,680
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I like Byakuya more than Soifon but he is not going to win this fight. Byakuya's main advantages are speed and Kido. It is highly hinted that Soifon is faster than Byakuya is so his real advantage would only be Kido in this fight.

    With that being said, his favored spell is his binding kido that only works on one target. We know now that Soifon can make a crap load of clones and then charge using her shikai. With her knowing how Byakuya is, I doubt she would go head on against him without a clone.
     
  23. Juri Active Member

    Messages:
    4,288
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Clone blitzing Byakuya is not as easy as you think. Zommari tried it and failed. His clones were tangible unlike soifon's which disappear when you catch the real her. Byakuya can just use Utsusemi to get out of hits.
     
  24. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    X
    X

    If you want to bring up the tag later on. Yoruichi completely led him on the entire time, not just that but she did it while carrying Ichigo with her (although that shouldn't mean much weight wise, it's still an inconvenience due to his size). Also Ichigo who reacted to Byakuya's Shunpo earlier and stated he could see every step was casually blitzed by Yoruichi when she input the drug into him.

    Soi Fon is slightly higher than Yoruichi in the speed department at base.
     
  25. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yeah, um, she did that while Byakuya wasn't looking... Likewise I can also say Hisagi blitzed Tousen.

    As for the carrying Ichigo part, yes she proved she's faster but that wasn't a blitz at all. The difference is pretty large you know.
     
  26. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    She proved she was a lot faster. If she wanted to attack at the time, she could've hit Byakuya before he could defend. The point is that she was focusing on escaping.

    To further support that point, Byakuya never even noticed her replacement technique. He wouldn't do anything against an attack from Yoruichi or Soi Fon.

    Soi Fon is faster than base Yoruichi.

    In the base vs base fight he's screwed anyways since if he tries to take his time to release he gets beat on and if he tries to go toe to toe with Soi Fon, he'll get beat on as well.

    Shikai vs Shikai would be the same except Soi Fon can easily use her two shot kill now. Byakuya doesn't have a lot of petals to form a decent defense in shikai so he'll get done in by the speed advantage again. Bankai it can go 50/50 since he has a lot more petals now, but I still say that Soi Fon takes it unless you want to argue that Yoruichi/Soi Fon are slower than Bankai Ichigo in SS arc.
     
  27. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    How do you know that? He escaped from Zommari similarly, for one thing. Besides, Yoruichi herself admitted she wouldn't be able to beat him at the time.

    Yoruichi/Soi Fon are slower than bankai Ichigo in SS arc IMO, yes.
    Besides, even if they weren't, what good would that do? Soi's shikai isn't fit for doing what Ichigo did to Senbonzakura.
     
  28. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    That was a Yoruichi who had just returned to a human body after several years and she still outpaced Byakuya. Irregardless of whether or not she could beat Byakuya at the time on panel feats show that she was not only faster than Byakuya but could also move faster than Byakuya could react as she was always literally one step ahead of him.

    Speedwise: Ichigo >= Byakuya < base Yoruichi < Soi Fon

    Ichigo was a lot closer to Byakuya in speed than you're assuming.

    Yoruichi and Soi Fon do have the ability to deal with Senbonzakura swarms, through Shunkou. Even Soi Fon's incomplete Shunkou should protect her enough to swat away a Senbonzakura swarm. Also, she only has to deflect the globe swarm. She can deal with individual blasts through dodging. After she moves into close quarters combat Byakuya can no longer use globe swarm in any case, and Hand to Hand he's not going to beat either of the two.
     
  29. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Setting the speed comparison aside (I'm lazy, believe it or not), Soi Fon's shunko sucks. She went from beating Yoruichi to being raped by her once they both used it, so she is nowhere near her level. Which makes me question the possibility of her breaking the Senbonzakura defense, to say the least, especially since Shunko needs some preparation.

    I'm not sure what the globe you're talking about is. Gokei? It's needed, neither would it probably work in the first place. But the outcome is the same, Soi Fon's shikai ability is completely useless and her shunko can't be compared to Byakuya's bankai.
     
  30. hmph Serious about fiction

    Messages:
    4,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    A speedblitz argument. Why I am not surprised. Every thread with Soifon there seems to be one. "Oh Soifon speedblitzs Byakuya, oh Soifon speedblitzs Kenpachi, oh Soifon speedblitzs Nnoitra, oh Soifon speedblitzs Halibel, oh Soifon speedblitzs Grimmjow, oh Soifon speedblitzs Yamamoto because Omaeda said she's the fastest captain."

    No. Yoruichi used a trick and fooled Byakuya. By the same logic that tricks are speedblitzs, Zommari blitzed Byakuya and Byakuya blitzed Zommari at the same time.

    Anyways, not so sure on the shikai battle, Soifon's shikai is worse in a straight fight than a normal sword and Byakuya has far better ranged attacks in kido/can use hado #4 in cqc. But Soifon is more agile and stronger, and can use shunko to widen the gap a bit more. I'd think Soifon would win purely through stamina advantage.

    I think anyone who thinks Soifon's bankai makes her weaker is definately underestimating it, but Byakuya should survive 2 shots if he shoots it down with kido/bankai and makes a wall with his other petals. He'll probably get hurt, but he should survive. Alternatively, Soifon could try to get as close as possible and activate it at point blank with no barrier for a double kill.
     
  31. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It's not really a specific technique of his, it's just that he sends out Sanbonzakura to close in on the opponent from all sides, which is the one Ichigo deflected.

    Yes her shunkou is pretty weak, but Byakuya's petals aren't exactly the epitome of strength either. The petals on offence were blown away by Shikai Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou. Only the wall of petals that he concentrated in front of him blocked it.

    X

    Shunkou enhanced Soi Fon can definitely react to and deflect his offensive petals.

    Yoruichi didn't just use a trick, she consistently moved faster than Byakuya in that little tag thing, unlike the Byakuya vs Zommari fight where Byakuya pulled it off once.

    Soi Fon isn't the fastest Captain. (Shunsui, Ukitake, Yamamoto, Aizen and Shunkou Yoruichi are faster than her) She is considerably faster than Byakuya though.
     
  32. hmph Serious about fiction

    Messages:
    4,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Uh huh. But a speed advantage is not a speedblitz. A blitz is where the opponent can't react at all to the speed of their enemy. Differences as large as the one between Byakuya and Renji, the one between masked Tousen and Hisagi, and the one between Ulquiorra and Ichigo isn't enough to blitz. Its enough to make victory almost impossible for the slower, but still not enough to blitz. And the only instance where Byakuya wasn't able to react was when Yoruichi used a trick to blindside him, and that is not about speed.
     
  33. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Everytime he turned to swing at her or attack her Yoruichi had already moved away again. He could still keep track of her somewhat at the time, but he wasn't doing anything about her.
     
  34. hmph Serious about fiction

    Messages:
    4,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yeah, she ran away until she determined that speed alone wasn't going to get her past Byakuya on that narrow bridge and then used utsusemi. How again does this translate into Soifon, being a bit faster than rusty Yoruichi, attacking so fast Byakuya can't defend against it?
     
  35. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Where was it determined that speed alone wasn't getting her away? Please provide a scan to back up that statement of yours. She never relented her advantage in speed. After she pulled the replacement trick she appeared behind Byakuya, taunted him then jumped up the building behind them. She spoke to Byakuya before Shunpoing away, after which Ukitake states that they've gotten away.

    Your argument would be valid if Yoruichi had instantly high tailed it after using the replacement trick. Which she did not.

    I already pointed out earlier that during this Yoruichi didn't focus on attacking. but on escaping. If she had attacked she would've moved closer to Byakuya. She already showed getting behind his back was no problem on two occasions.

    By the time she fought Soi Fon she had 3 days to get used to her human body again. Not enough to get back to normal but definitely a lot better than the state she was in when she fought Byakuya (right after disposing of her cat disguise)
     
  36. Aggressor .

    Messages:
    4,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Well she was out of combat for hundred's of years and seemingly didn't have her zanpakuto during that whole arc. It just means Byakuya>Base Yoruichi.
     
  37. Excalibur Cana? Where are you!

    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yoruichi did not blitz Byakuya on that bridge. The moment she had to use Utsesumi means she could have not outpaced Byakuya. But later proved her speed is still greater then Soifon's which tells me Byakuya isn't slower then Soifon the way some think he is, If Soifon's speed was that impressive against Youruichi she would have needed Utsesumi or anything else against Soifon also.
     
  38. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    That was Byakuya's shikai. I'm not arguing against Soi Fon beating shikai Byakuya (though I'm pretty sure Ichigo's shikai GT is about as strong as her shunkou), but she won't do that to Byakuya's bankai.

    I can't believe you are still arguing with hmph about the Utsusemi. You are probably the first person ever to call it a speedblitz, your Rider set is your only saving grace :pek

    I don't see what this has to do with what I said... If anything this supports it :oh
     
  39. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yoruichi being faster than byakuya is irelevant because yoruichi was also faster than soifon. and yoruichi stopping byakuyas bankai is also kinda pointless, because she basically ambushed him.

    Also Byakuya is still one of the fastest captains, yes granted hes slower than soifon but not that much. I think many are underestimating byakuyas speed. :tomaflirt
     
  40. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    This makes little sense.
     
  41. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36

    why? it has been stated he is one of the fastest captains. Soifon IS faster but not by much.
     
  42. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It was never stated.

    Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake and Shunsui already make 4/10 captains, now add Soi Fon... Yeah.
     
  43. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Byakuya is probably best known for his usage of shunpo. Although having been taught by, but never beating Yoruichi, he is still easily one of the most proficient users of this skill in all of Soul Society. And he is still one of the Few that know Utsusem

    Utsusemi: It allows for a movement at great speed, leaving an afterimage behind. X X


    and i don't know why you put unohana in your list...she has never show any incredible speed feats.

    Yes i agree Yamamoto is easily the fastest,second fastest is shunsui and ukitake (they seem to be quite equally fast), after them soifon and close after that byakuya. i mean during the whole manga Byakuyas speed has been the amazing thing about him, Zommari who was the fastest espada was still not fast enough to win byakuya.
     
  44. Sajin God Tier

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    She has zero feats whatsoever, but she's a senior captain and implied to be very strong. It's pretty obvious going by hype.
    And even if it wasn't 5/10 isn't the fastest. And I doubt he's faster than Hitsugaya, anyway.

    EDIT: Lol at Zommari being the fastest. Nnoitra must be the strongest.
     
  45. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    why would hitsugaya be faster than byakuya? Hitsugaya is fast but not eaven near byakuyas level.
     
  46. Lord Stark King of Winter

    Messages:
    10,942
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Keeping up with the third Espada.
    Being able to switch out with his clone.
    Dodging Harribel's counterattack. (One that he wouldn't have expected, I mean who knew she was ambidextrous)
    Putting up an ice shield before Cascada shredded him.
    Dodging Ola Azule, and La Gota.
    He has speed on par with or greater than Byakuya.
    The DB confirms that.
     
  47. Rene Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It was his Bankai:

    X
    X

    I do agree that Soi Fon's shunkou probably isn't stronger than Shikai Ichigo's GT. It should be an adequate strength level based on her usage of it against Yoruichi.

    Main reason I'm still argueing about speed is that speed is the entire thing it comes down to in the end. :p It's something Soi Fon heavily relies on when using her Shikai, so it's sort of relevant to the debate. I'm not saying she'll outright speed blitz him, but I am saying that her speed would be the deciding factor against Byakuya's bankai.

    I'm saying she wins a fight with Byakuya's bankai with her shikai 6/10 with high difficulty.

    Also, props on liking Rider. :LOS

    X
    X
    X
    X

    She's not much faster, but she is faster than the Yoruichi that played tag with Byakuya on the bridge.

    Shunkou Yoruichi is the one that is faster than Soi Fon.

    Anyways, I'm gonna go with Sajin on this. The speed argument is getting tiresome.
     
  48. PandaBot Kamishini no Yari

    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36

    give me the proof of that being sed in the databook and i shall belive you.
     
  49. ShadowStep The Flying Dutchman

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Soi Fong being faster in shikai is irrelevant...she loses purely because of her crappy bankai that'll slow her down to the speed of a turtle. And I don't see her winning with just shikai with Byakuya's Bankai.
     
  50. kitten320 Member

    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I duno who would win, it could go either way... I say they are equel for several reasons...

    1. Byakuya is better at swordmanship but Soi Fon at close combet hands to hands. In thise case he wins in swordmanship or she somehow knocks the sword out of his hand s or something and uses his as punching back. The filler episode where Soi was knocking Ichigo would be an example of a what if scenario. So yeh it is two sided here.

    2. Soi Fon is faster for several reasons. She was stated to be the fastest captain many times and then comes the Yoruichi who ot speeded Byakuya yet Soi had left marks all over her body and Yoruichi definetly didn't allow it on purpose. But Byakuya has shikai which would allow to keep Soi at distance.

    3. But his shikai is not really that fast and dengerouse... so here comes kido. He might trap her but Soi'f shunko might be powerful enough to break free. If no then she will lose if she will get caught.

    4. If Byakuya goes bankai, Soi still has shunko which has a chance of blowing away his petals. Maybe not for a long time but the instant blast of power might distract him enough in order for her to get closer. Then comes the clone thingy, if that was Ichigo's like clone than she obviously out speeds Byakuya a lot and has a lot of opportunities to stab him. If those were just dummies, they still can work as a good distraction. Soi was able to create 15 of them in worn out state, there is possibility that she might make more.

    So as I said it completly depends on the situation, how each one of them will act and which of those things will be affective enough.

    Also about Shunko, it might not be as good as Yoruichi's but there was pleanty of time in order for her to do some improvements by now. So yeh, once again depends on time and ability.
     

Share This Page