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Byakuya VS Halibel

Discussion in 'Bleach Battledome' started by Shir0saki, Jan 18, 2011.

Byakuya Vs Halibel

Poll closed Sep 9, 2011.
  1. Byakuya

    26 vote(s)
    54.2%
  2. Halibel

    22 vote(s)
    45.8%
  1. Shir0saki Trancendental

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    Byakuya's bloodlusted ( halibel kills Rukia )
    halibel is in character
    both start in base
    40 feet apart
    takes place in FKT
    GO
     
  2. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    Byakuya is bloodlusted?

    Well he loses either way but this is just a stomp.
     
  3. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Byakuya would win with mid to high difficulty at most. He beat her out in speed, intelligence, and abilities. He also excels at Kidou.
     
  4. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    He beats her in speed?
    Since when can Byakuya blitz the other Jr. Captains? He can't even blitz Ichigo until Ichigo's Reiatsu stomped.
     
  5. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Byakuya while using Utsusemi > Zommari > Halibel in terms of Shunpo and Sonido speed.
     
  6. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    Lolnothatswrong

    Byakuya while using Utsesumi dodged an attack from Zommari. Since when does that make him superior to Zommari? That doesn't even make him superior to Zommari's clones, considering he even needed Utsesumi to dodge that last attack.
     
  7. Greed You lose...Again

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    If Zommari's speed were truly greater, then he would've pressed the attack after Byakuya used Utsusemi. You know, without his clones, since they slow him down =/

    Anyway Byakuya stomps, especially since he's bloodlusted
     
  8. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    You know

    You really really can't say why didn't this character use this?

    If you'll make excuses then why didn't Byakuya use Utsesumi against Ichigo?

    There was really no reason for him to use Utsesumi against Zommari either. Prior to Utsesumi neither Zommari nor Byakuya actually moved.

    Your point is moot.
     
  9. Greed You lose...Again

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    He didn't have to use Utsusemi against Ichigo :maybe

    Zommari on the other hand, was actually trying to show his speed was superior to Byakuya's, he even touted being the fastest espada. Then you have Byakuya ridiculing his speed after he used Utsusemi

    The point isn't moot, you just can't explain it

    Besides, if Zommari didn't move before Utsusemi then he wouldn't have created any clones
     
  10. Excalibur Cana? Where are you!

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    Byakuya wins. Overall he's just the stronger warrior. I don't see how Harribel's water will even touch him when it didn't against Toshiro.. He has many options against her and the only real way she will win is in CQC.
     
  11. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Since Zommari basically said well there goes my speed advantage, so I may as well release, since he can just use Utsusemi.
     
  12. Ava Reduce All Creation To Ash

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    How exactly does Harribel win MB. I'm curious. :maybe
     
  13. Greed You lose...Again

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    He doesn't...

    MB's just trolling :maybe
     
  14. hmph Serious about fiction

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    Hum, still remember the last Halibel vs Byakuya thread when you stubbornly stuck to that opinion and everyone else said she'd win.

    And I still think she'd win. It'd be a fairly long fight, but Byakuya is lacking in strength and endurance compared to Halibel and her ability will just build up and overwhelm him.

    Utsusemi has nothing to do with raw speed. It's a trick for the purpose of confusion. A confused opponent will have their reactions slowed, which creates an illusion of speed advantage. However it is quite useless if the opponent sees through it. This also makes it useless at long range, and as Byakuya is a ranged fighter and Halibel will happily fight at range or melee, I doubt it will do much for him this fight.

    Also I don't think that Zommari is faster than Halibel. She was bluntly, though immeasurably, faster than Hitsu who seems more or less of the same speed as Byakuya.
     
  15. Ava Reduce All Creation To Ash

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    Bullshit .
     
  16. Greed You lose...Again

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    Utsusemi is a speed technique

    Harribel also wasn't 'immeasurably' faster than Hitsugaya, she couldn't even close the distance between him. The only time she did, was when she first released and even he said he didn't expect she'd get that much faster upon doing so... and she never did it again

    Sooooo... no
     
  17. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Utsusemi doesn't permanently increase speed but there's never been stated to be a limit to it's use either. It's not as if he just uses it non stop but I don't see why he couldn't use it enough to make a difference here.

    If Halibel tried fighting at a long range then that would just put her at even more of a disadvantage since Byakuya excels at Kidou and has a Bankai that works perfect for long range combat.

    Since Zommari was stated to be the fastest Espada I would put his speed above hers.

    I don't recall her being much faster than Hitsugaya, even if faster, and Byakuya is a good deal faster than Hitsugaya.
     
  18. hmph Serious about fiction

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    Ya know, I just told myself I would stop bothering responding to you, and yet here I am after this tempting little thing.

    X They go in a straight line, Halibel runs him down. It's very straightforward.

    Based on what? They have very remote comparisons, and are both captains that seem to prefer a mobile ranged combat style.
     
  19. Greed You lose...Again

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    Well, I'm gonna bow out of this debate seems like everyone else has it covered
     
  20. Ava Reduce All Creation To Ash

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    And yet she was forced to use a ranged attack because she can't actually touch him with her blade. Nice try.

    There's a reason why Harribel was desperately taunting Hitsugaya to fight her in melee...
     
  21. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    X
     
  22. Greed You lose...Again

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    That's not even Hitsu bro^
     
  23. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Based on him being able to out pace Zommari using Utsusemi while Zommari was faster than Halibel who was faster than Hitsugaya.

    That and the Data Book. So yeah I'd still give Byakuya the speed advantage.
     
  24. Ava Reduce All Creation To Ash

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    Whoa! She hit a stationary ice clone that Hitsugaya created to see the difference between her base and released form. Good for her.

    There's a reason why Harribel never blitzed Hitsugaya for the remainder of the fight.
     
  25. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    IIRC that clone was doing pretty damn well against a sealed Harribel.
     
  26. Greed You lose...Again

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    Lol@ Me actually defending Hitsu here

    Yeah, I'm outta this thread

    Peace :)
     
  27. hmph Serious about fiction

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    And yet, the data book itself says that Zommari's comment was a boast, not a proven claim.

    I don't buy much into the databook stats though. Consider the amounts of, say, Yamamoto, and how close he is to the other captains. Whereas his real power is vastly ahead of theirs. And then, say, Kenpachi is so far down when he seems just as capable as the other captains in general.
     
  28. Ava Reduce All Creation To Ash

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    No that was Hitsugaya himself.
     
  29. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    So he switched without Harribel noticing.

    X

    I call bullshit on your claims.
     
  30. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    1. Nonetheless there's no contradicting evidence and Zommari wasn't arrogant. So I'm still going with Zommari as having been the fastest Espada.

    2. I think the stats are accurate, however that doesn't mean the overalls give you a set ranking, since there are obviously categories not accounted for in the Data Book.
     
  31. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    Zommari has no speed feats.

    None. Other than Gemelos Sonido itself of course.

    Those clones dind't actually move.
     
  32. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    Well when you're fighting one of the fastest characters in Bleach who can use Utsusemi you aren't going to be in line for speed feats. :p
     
  33. hmph Serious about fiction

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    No contradicting word of mouth, perhaps. But Zommari was arrogant, "proud" of his sonido and clearly looked down on a generalized image of shinigami. And by all appearances Starrk was insanely faster. Particularly where Kenpachi lost sight of him yet never had trouble following Byakuya. Anyways, what it does is provide reasonable doubt on the claim.

    Well, okay, but compare Aizen and Komamura's strength stat. Do you really think they had the same strength, especially when one so blatantly overpowers the other in the manga? (actually IIRC Aizen had less)
     
  34. Ava Reduce All Creation To Ash

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    You do realize that Harribel was transforming in a big dome of water right? :maybe
     
  35. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    1. I respectfully disagree that Zommari was arrogant. Aizen made it clear that the Espadas > the Captains to the Espadas themselves. Yet Zommari went in with the state of mind that him and Byakuya were equal in power. Granted he turned out to be far weaker than Byakuya, but since he was told otherwise, he seemed pretty modest about it to me. Kenpachi has never seen Byakuya use Utsusemi. Plus I think he was just caught off guard by Stark's appearance and if I'm not mistaken he was also heavily battle worn. When Ichigo fought Byakuya the latter wasn't expecting such speed from the former so he lost sight of Bankai Ichigo in the first go around.

    2. Aizen's Reiatsu is much greater than Komamura's, and plus, Komamura was heavily battle worn. It's only natural that Aizen out powered him.
     
  36. hmph Serious about fiction

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    This is mostly fair, particularly about being caught off guard by speed. However I find Zommari portrayed as a counterpart to Byakuya, and for that an arrogant character. His overconfidence in his ability is portrayed this way. He went about explaining everything to Byakuya in a condescending fashion, such as calling his confusion X, X, and making presumptions about his motive. Byakuya was provoking him, yes, but for his calm and polite manner, he was being just as condescending in return.

    Well okay, but if you think reiatsu has a direct relation to stats and is not shown on the stats, do you think that is only in strength or does it apply to speed as well?

    As for being battleworn, I'll agree my first example was poor and simply present another example of the infamous scene of Komamura and Tousen being blocked by Kenpachi at the same time. Koma and Ken are both 100s, but Ken didn't even struggle to block both Tousen and him.
     
  37. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    water is transparent, you know that, right?
     
  38. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    1. Again though Zommari showed modesty through his view of the comparison between his powers and Byakuya's. It wasn't until Byakuya started talking trash that he started being more condescending. Byakuya was just plain mean to him. :(

    2. Well I do think Reiatsu plays some part in it in general. However it doesn't always play a huge part. It just plays a major factor if the difference in Reiatsu between opponents is great. This is alluded to in both the Ichigo vs. Kenpachi fight and the Aizen vs. Soi Fon scuffle. Plus there's the battle worn thing which you agreed with. As for the Kenpachi vs. Tousen and Komamura fight there are two things I could note here. For one Kenpachi's Reiatsu is most likely far greater than Komamura's. That and Komamura's physical strength might be including his Bankai, actually it probably is, and unfortunately we never got to see Bankai Komamura fight Kenpachi.
     
  39. hmph Serious about fiction

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    Well I'll have to disagree. But do you not find it suspect tha the 7th Espada would be the fastest based primarily on what is specifically called a boast?

    I honestly find that unlikely. Anyways I went and looked at that bleach wiki and it said Hitsu and Byakuya have the same stat for mobility anyway.
     
  40. Juri Active Member

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    Poor Harribel. Doesn't get any respect.
     
  41. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    1. Well to be totally honest I'm entirely skeptical on that anyways as I haven't even really seen the statements from the Data Book regarding this, so I wonder what the context was, as in was it stated within the context that it was hinted he was lying or was it just stated that he boasted the fastest Sonido amongst the Espadas? So that's one issue I'm having. Another is there's nothing more that Mangakas like to do than to force fans to debate, so I could easily see Kubo just writing that in there for the sake of debate, and couple that with no contradictory evidence and I can't help but stick with Zommari being the fastest Espada as I'm sure Kubo made him such to have him stick out since he was only the Seventh Espada.

    2. Well the way I see it is Komamura's Bankai would make his physical strength much greater there's no number past one hundred on a scale of 1 to 100. I always took that as more of an offensive category in general and not just pure physical strength anyways, but yeah, we can always agree to disagree if we have to. I forgot that Hitsugaya's stat in speed is actually 90 and not 80. Sorry about that. Well yeah their speed probably is on the same level then, although unlike Byakuya, Hitsugaya doesn't know Utsusemi as far as we know. So while Halibel's base speed might have been greater than Byakuya's the latter's max speed, although that max speed isn't constant, was greater than the former's.

    Hey I love Halibel. :(
     
  42. Millón Vasto Kubo nuff said

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    Halibel wins. Utsusemi or not zommari is an arrogant bastard and nothing more. Her reflexes will allow her to see through byakuya's attacks.
     
  43. Greed You lose...Again

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    Harribel wins

    Byakuya's sealed blade is as strong as his Bankai, so its not like his zanpakuto gets any stronger, and Harribel is as strong as unpatched Kenpachi :maybe

    Sealed Byakuya vs Kenpachi is a nono, so she takes this easy :lmao

    Seriously, why do I even bother =/
     
  44. Orxon shurorororo

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    Would it be asinine to suggest that a bloodlusted Byakuya can take this in base? Because in truth, he doesn't win because of his bankai, he wins because of speed and kido.
     
  45. LittleLamplightMassacre Monkeys dehyping one at a time

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    Lol.
    No he doesn't win of speed
     
  46. Whitebeard wew lad

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    Halibel wins, byakuya at most can take nnoitra so I don't see him defeating the 3rd espada :wink
     
  47. Orxon shurorororo

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    Why? You can make a case for Starrk but Harribel? She didn't come off as very as at all. Byakuya would outspeed her very easily.
     
  48. Aggressor .

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    Yes it would be, whilest Byakuya is certainly strong he hasn't illustrated any feats that would allow us to say that he has the ability to defeat Harribel especially unreleased. I feel that you are rather overestimating Byakuya's abilities and really underestimating Harribel's.

    Yes Byakuya's speed is highly regarded but I'm inclined to say that Harribel is the faster combatant or to the very least on par with Byakuya and this is not even considering reflexes. What leads me to believe this is that Hitsugaya (someone of whom I believe has speed comparable to Byakuya) was getting relentlessly outmaneuvered in terms of pure speed. Although she only landed one strike on Hitsugaya himself - she was able to make Hitsugaya release into X [X] [X] but also made him revert to ranged combat.

    Not only this but Hitsugaya literally used almost everything he had within his arsenal just to keep track on her movements. Also note that I haven't even been considering Harribel's reflexes, in my opinion sealed or with X [X] [X] [X] he will be struggling to even land one blow on her as she has the zanjutsu to handle anything he has in terms of close combat and the zanjutsu to be able to deflect almost all of his Bankai's blade fragments.

    In terms of Kido I truly doubt that he will be able to bind her through Bakudō. She most likely has the strength to get out of his middle level Bakudō techniques and he most likey needs to chant incantations with the Bakudō that would be effective against Harribel which he will not have the luxury of doing against her whilest she is bloodlusted. Not to mention I doubt he'll be able to even bind her reguardless of the strength of the Bakudō considering Harribel is not the type of combatant to stay still even for a moment especially whilest blood lusted.

    His Hado may give him some more fire power but with her mobility, I don't see him being able to actually land any attack on her. In my opinion Harribel can win this quite handily - I give this to her 8.5 out of 10 times.
     
  49. Greed You lose...Again

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    I agree, though I don't think he'd win in Base. He has to defend against her attacks after all

    :huh

    I think MB's referring to her reflexes being able to react to him, or at least I'd hope so

    But then again, she only barely dodged a hit from Hitsugaya. Since when has Hitsugaya been known to have fast attacks? :huh

    Anyway, yeah. Senkei is gonna be the last thing she sees. That, or Kido
     
  50. Aggressor .

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    Hitsugaya's ice is more or less around Soi Fon's speed.
     

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