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215 Spoilers/Discussion

Discussion in 'Nanatsu no Taizai' started by ℜai, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:15 AM.

  1. Akira1993 Well-Known Member

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    It is exactly a conceptual since it works outside of Mel's own strength and doesn't have any kind of form which can be described lol, hence why the " conceptual " thing.
    For the " zero power " : http://mangalife.us/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-119-page-13.html
    " Full counter virtually uses zero power " aka again why this ability is called NLF in OBD.
     
  2. overlordpringerx Member

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    That's not exactly "conceptual" just hax. Disaster, Snatch and God seem to be closer to what you can call conceptual. Conceptual implies manipulation of the concept itself, on a ridiculously much higher level. JoJo's bizarre adventure has a lot of characters with abilities that can be considered conceptual. Like Okuyasu's stand "The hand" or Koichi's "echoes". Hell, in Medaka Box Kumagawa from what I know has a power that actually makes God look pathetic
     
  3. Akira1993 Well-Known Member

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    There is some ridiculous manipulation in Full counter too, you think it just reflects back the same attack alone? It reflects with much more power, there is some manipulation if the attack is much more powerful than before thanks to FC + the fact that it changes the direction of the attack itself, like a mirror.
    And counter vanish? It literally vanishes the attack itself in nothing and cancels it, don't want to continue with revenge counter.
     
  4. Akira1993 Well-Known Member

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    Well, come to this chapter, Diane seems to recover her memory ?
    There is a confirmation or not?
    Also, I can't wait to see their faces when they will see Meliodas still alive lol. Wonder if Dolor and Gloxinia will join them or not ?
     
  5. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    Bwahaha I fucking knew it, that she'd run.

    Looks like King's "wings" are going to grow.:LOS

    #shwing :lmao
     
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  6. Handsome Yak gefühlvoll und sanft.

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    I'm even more convinced now that there is a distant blood relation between Diane and Dolor.
     
  7. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    Looks like Dolor was looked down upon as a kid too, correct?

    And he's so cute too, but he didn't have an eye even back then? :dafuq
     
  8. FKS Active Member

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    Yep, he looked so out of place among the normal Giants.
     
  9. Handsome Yak gefühlvoll und sanft.

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    Not sure what the translation makes of it but he certainly was considered an outsider due to his abnormal physique. Much like Diane also was an outsider for her views about the giants' way of living.

    About the eye... I wonder if he actually was born this way. Could be a birth defect. Then again, all about him screams birth defect lol

    Amazing """handicaps""" tho
     
  10. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    So many similarities between Dolor and Diane. I always said that there's a possibility they're related.But some people were against that idea.
     
  11. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    I wonder where Karmadios fits in all this. Is he a giant too with an abnormal physique, or just a demon and they happen to come in that size and shape?
    What if Dolor is Karmadios' son? Making Dolor some kind of hybrid.:hm

    Ah it's fun to speculate about this kind of stuff. Too bad we didn't get to see the Gaia form. But we'll get to see it in the future I bet.
    Not sure what to make of Zel's ability atm, and if he really used God and not something else.
     
  12. Handsome Yak gefühlvoll und sanft.

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    You know of the giant's causeway in Ireland?

    Not that I expect it to ever be brought up but I wonder if the two of them are the last remnants of an ancient giant race that doesn't even originate from Britania. It could be they are actually from a different continent.

    Especially since some of the poses Dolor does during his dance are obviously influenced by Zen and Yoga poses so they might actually be of Asian origin. I don't know who first pointed it out but with his blue skin and the dancing there are also parallels to Shiva and the like.
     
  13. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    No but now I do.
    Aren't Fomorians, a race of giants, usually seen as raiders? That could explain their foreign origin, which is pretty similar to Northmen, or Vikings if you prefer.Maybe that is the real source of the myth behind giants.
     
  14. overlordpringerx Member

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    That still doesn't count as conceptual manipulation. That's just another effect. It's not even that uncommon in any action medium. It's just like mirror coat in the Pokemon anime. But it's still not conceptual. It may not rely on Meliodas's power, but it's BOUND by concepts, it doesn't affect the concepts themselves. By bound I don't mean it has limits on "how much can it affect" but "what can it affect", just so you know what I mean.
    That also isn't conceptual manipulation, just broken hax. If you want conceptual nullification, again, go to JoJo's.

    There are several things that I still don't really know if full counter could affect. Like many of King's techniques. It could definitely affect Sunflower, but then there's stuff like Guardian which is kinda a magic attack... But at the same time not really... But anyway, since God isn't an "attack" per se, but a much more broken counter vanish as it seems, I doubt it would be affected by full counter. Which is perfect, because that could actually open up the possibility for a fight where Meliodas can't simply rely on full counter all the time, but had to actually use his skill as a fighter against an opponent on a similar level and fighting style. So far, very few of Meliodas's fights were actually satisfying for me, because a lot of times he could either just full counter the attack, or use counter vanish, or he was just way too powerful, or he would just happen to have a way to bullshit his way to victory.
    Seriously, Nakaba made sure to make him as unstoppable as possible so far. Full counter can't block physical attacks? Who cares when Meliodas is insanely tough anyway? Full counter doesn't work as an attack itself? Meliodas has several attacks even without full counter. So it's not like it actually matters. Oh, Ban stole Mel's strength, and will therefore actually be able to actually pose a threat to him! Wait, no, demon power up. and then all the inconsistencies regarding him and his powers. I mean, at least in the Lioness arc Full counter as broken as it may seem at least had ONE disadvantage: it required perfect timing and Meliodas needed actually face the attack, he couldn't just counter something that was behind him. But now he has Lostvayne, so that weakness is gone. Oh, also he can't die. And can block mind reading. He has about every advantage he could have in a fight, that's why his victories don't really feel that heroic compared to the other sins. Apart from Merlin (so far) every sin had some kind of handicap that made them vulnerable in some way or another.
    King: relies mostly on Chastiefol or other things he can use as weapons or shields, but is physically not very strong, though he is durable.
    Ban: is immortal and can steal his enemies strength, but he can still be immobilized or defeated in other ways, and Snatch has it's limits.
    Diane: strong AND durable, but she's an easy target and not the brightest
    Escanor: is only broken during the day unless asspull
    Gowther: invasion might be a very dangerous ability, but the real dangerous techniques can't affect more than one target.

    Overall I get the feeling that Nakaba at some points really just wrote himself into a corner several times and other times (or sometimes at the same time) decided to change plot points in the middle of the story. Like, I don't believe for a SECOND that octololi was always planned to turn out to be a male character, counter vanish feels like it was made up on the spot, given how it was introduced, and don't even get me started on the plot holes regarding Meliodas 10 years ago, or even worse, Merlin!

    I seriously hope they don't.
     
  15. Handsome Yak gefühlvoll und sanft.

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    Yes but Nakaba doesn't strictly keep to the lore. He's taking influences from all kinds of historical backgrounds. If you look how the entire giant clan's physique present in Britania over the ages is more or less the same, Dolor and Karmadios are weirdly different. Not just their size and the amount of arms. They skin colours, too. Karmadios tends to the red or magenta spectrum a bit, Dolor to blueish-green. They somewhat resemble Japanese Oni in that regard, so I assume they are supposed to be an amalgamation of different cultures and lore and he just happens to lump them in with the giants.

    I doubt he is ever really going to elaborate on it though since they are still fairly minor characters. But developing head-canons about these guys is pretty fun.
     
  16. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    Either they're hybrids, or they come from a now extinct race of giants.
    Or it's just another trope, like Red Oni, Blue Oni or something like that..
     
  17. FKS Active Member

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    This makes me think of this video:
     
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  18. Akira1993 Well-Known Member

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    " That still doesn't count as conceptual manipulation. That's just another effect. It's not even that uncommon in any action medium. It's just like mirror coat in the Pokemon anime. But it's still not conceptual. It may not rely on Meliodas's power, but it's BOUND by concepts, it doesn't affect the concepts themselves. By bound I don't mean it has limits on "how much can it affect" but "what can it affect", just so you know what I mean. "
    As I said earlier, I just extrapolate the fact at hand, it is a conceptual manipulation by the simple fact that it doesn't simple rebound the attack, it rebound with an extra gift which means it mess with the power of attack via amplification, that is the basic definition of a manipulation right there.

    " That also isn't conceptual manipulation, just broken hax. If you want conceptual nullification, again, go to JoJo's.

    There are several things that I still don't really know if full counter could affect. Like many of King's techniques. It could definitely affect Sunflower, but then there's stuff like Guardian which is kinda a magic attack... But at the same time not really... But anyway, since God isn't an "attack" per se, but a much more broken counter vanish as it seems, I doubt it would be affected by full counter. Which is perfect, because that could actually open up the possibility for a fight where Meliodas can't simply rely on full counter all the time, but had to actually use his skill as a fighter against an opponent on a similar level and fighting style. So far, very few of Meliodas's fights were actually satisfying for me, because a lot of times he could either just full counter the attack, or use counter vanish, or he was just way too powerful, or he would just happen to have a way to bullshit his way to victory.
    Seriously, Nakaba made sure to make him as unstoppable as possible so far. Full counter can't block physical attacks? Who cares when Meliodas is insanely tough anyway? Full counter doesn't work as an attack itself? Meliodas has several attacks even without full counter. So it's not like it actually matters. Oh, Ban stole Mel's strength, and will therefore actually be able to actually pose a threat to him! Wait, no, demon power up. and then all the inconsistencies regarding him and his powers. I mean, at least in the Lioness arc Full counter as broken as it may seem at least had ONE disadvantage: it required perfect timing and Meliodas needed actually face the attack, he couldn't just counter something that was behind him. But now he has Lostvayne, so that weakness is gone. Oh, also he can't die. And can block mind reading. He has about every advantage he could have in a fight, that's why his victories don't really feel that heroic compared to the other sins. Apart from Merlin (so far) every sin had some kind of handicap that made them vulnerable in some way or another.
    King: relies mostly on Chastiefol or other things he can use as weapons or shields, but is physically not very strong, though he is durable.
    Ban: is immortal and can steal his enemies strength, but he can still be immobilized or defeated in other ways, and Snatch has it's limits.
    Diane: strong AND durable, but she's an easy target and not the brightest
    Escanor: is only broken during the day unless asspull
    Gowther: invasion might be a very dangerous ability, but the real dangerous techniques can't affect more than one target.

    Overall I get the feeling that Nakaba at some points really just wrote himself into a corner several times and other times (or sometimes at the same time) decided to change plot points in the middle of the story. Like, I don't believe for a SECOND that octololi was always planned to turn out to be a male character, counter vanish feels like it was made up on the spot, given how it was introduced, and don't even get me started on the plot holes regarding Meliodas 10 years ago, or even worse, Merlin!
    "
    As you said yourself, full counter isn't really Meliodas's biggest power, that is his demon power and his hype of the " supreme " demon. Mel doesn't rely too much on full counter, when the attack is really too dangerous to tank, yes, he uses full counter, Mel is also unpredictable as a character, we don't know what he really think inside his head during a fight lol, but his fight is always epic and well choregraphed.
    Meliodas is the MC, that is how shonen manga works, Goku, the father of MC's shonen is also the same, he gets power up after power up.
    From chapter 1, I knew that Mel isn't the typical MC : " I am weak at the beginning but I will train again and again and I swear to be strong to protect you ".
    That is how 90 % of MC in shonen are, but Mel is different, he was stronger in the past, in BOS he is nothing but an insect compared to his past self. Nakaba revealed that he always wanted to create a MC which was strong from the very beginning, always young and cool.
    Doesn't feel heroic ? Like when he used his head against Hendrickson and finally defeated him with the help of his friends, isn't what a hero does? Defeating your enemy thanks to the help of your friends, being the main player and saving the day with a dangerous ability ( double edged sword ) is the definition of heroic thing. Please, don't start that shit now in this topic.
    Nakaba doesn't change anything, this stupid name " octololi " comes from the fans ( I know that you doesn't implied otherwise ), I always knew he was a " dude " due to his anatomy at the level of his sternum if you get what I mean. Also I had some experience from " trap " characters, I'm not a casual reader you know.
    Cain himself introduced the ability lol, proof that Mel used that attack several times in the past, what plot holes lmao ?

    " I seriously hope they don't. "
    Lmao how so ? They clearly are on the good side now, they helped Diane and King, both are in the side of Meliodas and against the ten commandments.
    Meliodas success to change them during their fight without any talk no jutsu, just as Dolor says.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 11:18 AM
  19. Blade Well-Known Member

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    mah nigga Zeldris kicked Dolor so bad that his kick was almost merged with Dolor's stomach




    :hestonpls
     
  20. Handsome Yak gefühlvoll und sanft.

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    He kicked his chest so hard that Gowther almost found a new heart in the future
     
  21. Blade Well-Known Member

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    Yak

    you mean finding THE HEART from Bleach even :hestonpls
     
  22. Handsome Yak gefühlvoll und sanft.

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    If only Ulqui had known

    there would've been a future for him too :gokuskully
     
  23. Roadagain Goat's Sin of Lust Retired Mod

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    http://readms.net/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/215/4201/1
     
  24. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    Zeldoris....

    Niggastream strikes again.

    So the demon king lend his power to Zeldris? That explains everything.
     
  25. FKS Active Member

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    And it's what they used in their early releases. I guess the old habits die hard.
     
  26. NoticemeEscanorsenpai Japan's national treasure

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    I need Dolor's face from when he pictures himself running as a wallpaper. That shit is just hilarious. :skully
     
  27. Onyx Darkmatter The Dead Scotsman

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    So that's all from the flashback.
    It's really been a great arc with great twists and characters.

    I find it interesting how Dolor was discriminated by his own race due to his odd appearance, and how Diane experienced similar manners.
    I also love how Dolor reacted to Diane's answer that she ran away instead of making the decision. :skully
     
  28. blackguyinpinksuit Well-Known Member

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    Zeldris still holding back immensely. Damn. At least i got an idea on how he stopped escanor's cruel sun from one shotting him and estarossa. Truly the strongest commandment.

    Liked the dolor focus and his face at the end lol.
     
  29. LordPerucho Well-Known Member

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    Was that the real Dolor the freaked out or Dianes in Dolors body when she decided to run away from Zeldris ala Joseph Joestar?
     
  30. Superman Man of Steel

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    "Whoosh!!! Peace! I am out!"


    LOL!
     

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