Hollows made from Shinigami -> Yhwach? - Naruto Forums
  • Free Naruto Games
  • Naruto Wallpaper
  • Want a Good Laugh Check out These Funny Pics
Welcome to the Naruto Forums. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Notices

Go Back   Naruto Forums > Bleach Avenue > Society Library
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-05-2013, 05:48 AM   #1
PDQ
Meta-Debater
Hokage
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 11,628
PDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is Elysian
Default Hollows made from Shinigami -> Yhwach?

I don't follow. How did he get from hollows fusing with his Shinigami powers to it being Yhwach pretending to be his Zanpakto?

Seems like a non sequitur

PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
NarutoForums
        


Old 06-05-2013, 05:52 AM   #2
Stevenh1990
Doesn't want a Custom Title
Academy Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 331
Stevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faithStevenh1990 is a guardian of the faith
Default

It's hard to understand because the translation was super shitty this week.

Stevenh1990 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 05:53 AM   #3
mana2000
Mistress of the Night Sky
Elite Teacher
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 994
mana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truthmana2000 is an honorable bastion of truth
Default

Basically, Ichigo's true zanpakutou is his hollow combined with Shinigami power, and Yhwach/Zangetsu only pretended to be his zanpakutou. How it happened.... just ask Kubo.

mana2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 05:53 AM   #4
Coldhands
A Thousand Eyes, and One
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 9,491
Coldhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareilColdhands est le sans pareil
Default

I really don't have slightest clue. Kubo better explain this.

Coldhands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 05:53 AM   #5
memocay
Doesn't want a Custom Title
ANBU Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bosom of Artemis
Posts: 1,463
memocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faithmemocay is a guardian of the faith
Default

Yeah even Ichigos new true asouchi looks like a hollow

memocay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:02 AM   #6
dark messiah verdandi
I found the soul
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,928
dark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDQ View Post
I don't follow. How did he get from hollows fusing with his Shinigami powers to it being Yhwach pretending to be his Zanpakto?

Seems like a non sequitur
Ichigo sees asauchi.

Wonders, Why does my zanpakuto look like my hollow?

Zangetsu is my Zanpakuto.

Niyama tells ichigo: No this hollow has always been your zanpakuto.

Whites attach themselves to shinigami powers and become the zanpakuto
(I.e, the arrancar method. Zanpakuto is inner hollow within oneself.)


If Whitey has always been Ichigo's Zanpakuto, as he attached himself to ichigo's shinigami self after birth, then obviously, zangetsu is a pretender.


Zangetsu is what his quincy powers looked like as they started to incroach on his shinigami powers. Whitey is the personification of his WHITE power...lulz.
Zangetsu is the personification of his quincy power.


In that effect, zangetsu has never actually been the one bestowing the shikai and bankai power, he highjacked it.
Ichigo's Zanpakuto powers have always been reminencent of hollow powers.


Getsuga tenshou in bankai is the same wavelength as Cero Oscuras.
He has a hollow mask.
Tensa Zangetsu looked like a Gillian-class menos.


dark messiah verdandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:08 AM   #7
Magician
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,322
Blog Entries: 1
Magician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is DivineMagician is Divine
Default

Waiting for mangastream's translation.

Magician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:09 AM   #8
jacamo
Kekkei Genkai Sama
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,846
jacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendant
Default

wait a minute... so every Zanpakto is actually a hollow?

not just Ichigo but Rukia, Renji and Byakuya as well?

jacamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:10 AM   #9
RandomLurker
Quick Brown Fox
Kage
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Trollhalla
Posts: 8,406
Blog Entries: 2
RandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is RapturousRandomLurker is Rapturous
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BD View Post
Waiting for mangastream's translation.
Mangastream is terrible at translating Bleach. They come up with their own shit when they don't like the words Kubo uses and have even had gross mistranslations and inconsistencies.

RandomLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:17 AM   #10
MS81
Supreme Jounin
God of Shinobi
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in your mom's room
Posts: 17,853
Blog Entries: 2
MS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is RapturousMS81 is Rapturous
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacamo View Post
wait a minute... so every Zanpakto is actually a hollow?

not just Ichigo but Rukia, Renji and Byakuya as well?
maybe, but it's more so of Ichigo and his link to Hollows.

MS81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:21 AM   #11
jacamo
Kekkei Genkai Sama
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,846
jacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS81 View Post
maybe, but it's more so of Ichigo and his link to Hollows.
ive always enjoyed Bleach but never been a hardcore follower

realising that every Zanpakto is actually a Hollow in sword form is just as much of a mindfuck as Juha = Zangetsu for me at this point

jacamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:32 AM   #12
Grand Cross
Funkiest Dealer
Legendary Ninja
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Naruki City
Posts: 4,213
Grand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is TranscendentGrand Cross is Transcendent
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacamo View Post
wait a minute... so every Zanpakto is actually a hollow?

not just Ichigo but Rukia, Renji and Byakuya as well?
Nope. Every Shinigami uses an asauchi to craft their Zanpakuto.

Ichigo gained his Zanpakuto from White, a Hollow. He's a unique case.

Grand Cross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:38 AM   #13
PDQ
Meta-Debater
Hokage
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 11,628
PDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is ElysianPDQ is Elysian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark messiah verdandi View Post
Ichigo sees asauchi.

Wonders, Why does my zanpakuto look like my hollow?

Zangetsu is my Zanpakuto.

Niyama tells ichigo: No this hollow has always been your zanpakuto.

Whites attach themselves to shinigami powers and become the zanpakuto
(I.e, the arrancar method. Zanpakuto is inner hollow within oneself.)


If Whitey has always been Ichigo's Zanpakuto, as he attached himself to ichigo's shinigami self after birth, then obviously, zangetsu is a pretender.


Zangetsu is what his quincy powers looked like as they started to incroach on his shinigami powers. Whitey is the personification of his WHITE power...lulz.
Zangetsu is the personification of his quincy power.


In that effect, zangetsu has never actually been the one bestowing the shikai and bankai power, he highjacked it.
Ichigo's Zanpakuto powers have always been reminencent of hollow powers.


Getsuga tenshou in bankai is the same wavelength as Cero Oscuras.
He has a hollow mask.
Tensa Zangetsu looked like a Gillian-class menos.

If they're different, what was that whole thing with Shirosaki in the inner world saying he was Zangetsu? Was that not a White? He even merged with Zangetsu after one battle.

PDQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:41 AM   #14
jacamo
Kekkei Genkai Sama
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,846
jacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror Saber View Post
Nope. Every Shinigami uses an asauchi to craft their Zanpakuto.

Ichigo gained his Zanpakuto from White, a Hollow. He's a unique case.
are you sure? or is this some contentious issue that cant be proven?

i mean, what is an asauchi?

jacamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:47 AM   #15
dark messiah verdandi
I found the soul
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,928
dark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacamo View Post
wait a minute... so every Zanpakto is actually a hollow?

not just Ichigo but Rukia, Renji and Byakuya as well?
NONONO.

It is not that every Zanpakuto is a hollow.
Every zanpakuto is a spiritual construct, a homonculi if you will that has two forms. A manifest form, and it's form as a sword. It eats up the subconscious of the shinigami it is attuned to, and develops powers by itself based on those traits.
If anything, one could say zanpakuto are closer to hougyouku as they realize the desires of the soul, and manifest them.


ICHIGO'S Zanpakuto is a hollow.
Here is why. Because Aizen created the whites. Whites are Hollow that infect the bodies of those they bite with what you could call a spiritual virus. From that virus, it waits to infect a shinigami host, Retroactively changing the shinigami powers and the zanpakuto that is connected to it, into a hollow.


Now let us see what the White Virus did to it's best example. Kaname Tousen. He was an Arrancar/Vizard greater than them all, as he had the full suite of powers without any problem. Suzumushi was the zanpakuto gained from Tousen's best friend. After that he attuned it to his spirit, which knew darkness and abstention from senses. That is the passion that transformed that zanpakuto into suzumushi.

After he joined aizen, and Aizen turned him, with the white virus, His zanpakuto kept it's shinigami powers, but also gave him hollow powers, with the ability to manifest a mask, and the ability to use ressureccion.
This was not the method he used with the hougyouku, which turned arrancars at a 100% rate, without defect.


Ichigo is right in the middle because of this fact.
Niyama did not make his zanpakuto.
EVERYONE else in soul society has a zanpakuto made by Niyama. All of them are.
Ichigo created his himself. Who else has the ability to create their zanpakuto themselves?
Arrancar. As they are the masks, and nexus of power of the hollow stored in the form of a sword.

Ichigo is different than an arrancar, because arrancar do not have hearts. Even more interesting. Menos do not actually have a true self. They are an amalgam of everything they have eaten. A large corporation of souls with one dominant personality. Because of the nature of the hollow, and the fact that they don't have Niyama esque zanpakuto, They traditionally don't have hollow spirits. (The only hollow with a zanpakuto spirit is stark with lilinette )

For Ichigo, the hollow itself became the zanpakuto, AND the spirit residing inside of it, so it was the body of the hollow as well as the soul. This is because he is not a shinigami, he is a vizard type arrancar/quincy.

dark messiah verdandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:58 AM   #16
jacamo
Kekkei Genkai Sama
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,846
jacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark messiah verdandi View Post
NONONO.

It is not that every Zanpakuto is a hollow.
Every zanpakuto is a spiritual construct, a homonculi if you will that has two forms. A manifest form, and it's form as a sword. It eats up the subconscious of the shinigami it is attuned to, and develops powers by itself based on those traits.
If anything, one could say zanpakuto are closer to hougyouku as they realize the desires of the soul, and manifest them.


ICHIGO'S Zanpakuto is a hollow.
Here is why. Because Aizen created the whites. Whites are Hollow that infect the bodies of those they bite with what you could call a spiritual virus. From that virus, it waits to infect a shinigami host, Retroactively changing the shinigami powers and the zanpakuto that is connected to it, into a hollow.


Now let us see what the White Virus did to it's best example. Kaname Tousen. He was an Arrancar/Vizard greater than them all, as he had the full suite of powers without any problem. Suzumushi was the zanpakuto gained from Tousen's best friend. After that he attuned it to his spirit, which knew darkness and abstention from senses. That is the passion that transformed that zanpakuto into suzumushi.

After he joined aizen, and Aizen turned him, with the white virus, His zanpakuto kept it's shinigami powers, but also gave him hollow powers, with the ability to manifest a mask, and the ability to use ressureccion.
This was not the method he used with the hougyouku, which turned arrancars at a 100% rate, without defect.


Ichigo is right in the middle because of this fact.
Niyama did not make his zanpakuto.
EVERYONE else in soul society has a zanpakuto made by Niyama. All of them are.
Ichigo created his himself. Who else has the ability to create their zanpakuto themselves?
Arrancar. As they are the masks, and nexus of power of the hollow stored in the form of a sword.

Ichigo is different than an arrancar, because arrancar do not have hearts. Even more interesting. Menos do not actually have a true self. They are an amalgam of everything they have eaten. A large corporation of souls with one dominant personality. Because of the nature of the hollow, and the fact that they don't have Niyama esque zanpakuto, They traditionally don't have hollow spirits. (The only hollow with a zanpakuto spirit is stark with lilinette )

For Ichigo, the hollow itself became the zanpakuto, AND the spirit residing inside of it, so it was the body of the hollow as well as the soul. This is because he is not a shinigami, he is a vizard type arrancar/quincy.
thanks for answering my noob questions

jacamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 07:06 AM   #17
Cromer
Doesn't want a Custom Title
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Loading the rocket fuel...
Posts: 8,267
Blog Entries: 4
Cromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareilCromer est le sans pareil
Send a message via Skype™ to Cromer
Default

Dark messiah verdandi, you utter beauty! Makes perfect sense.

Cromer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 07:06 AM   #18
dark messiah verdandi
I found the soul
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,928
dark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysiandark messiah verdandi is Elysian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDQ View Post
If they're different, what was that whole thing with Shirosaki in the inner world saying he was Zangetsu? Was that not a White? He even merged with Zangetsu after one battle.
Spoiler:

Now we know the answer is "I am your zanpakuto".

The thing we need to keep in mind of is that Zangetsu Isn't actually the name of Juha Bach.
Zangetsu may as well be the name of the hollow. Cutting moon? What does whitey's hollow hole look like? A moon. What did his hands look like? Knives. Zangetsu is the name of the Hollow, not of Bach.

The thing is, Bach started to fuse with Zangetsu to the point where he became zangetsu.
We were originally under the impression that bach-Zangetsu represented the shinigami powers, and that Shiro Zangetsu represented the hollow powers.

This was our mistake. Ichigo is not a Shinigami from the start. He was always a Vizard. So Shiro Zangetsu represented the totality of his powers.

Bach-Zangetsu NEVER represented the shinigami powers. He represented Ichigo's QUINCY powers. Ichigo's Shinigami/hollow powers were perfectly in balance from the start. He was born a vizard, as the White Virus transmitted from Misaki to Ichigo. Perfect balance.


It was the quincy powers that caused unrest in his soul. Those had been trying to absorb and take over Shiro-zangetsu, who started to fight back. Moreso, he had more influence in bankai form, where BACH did not have such a strong effect.

If anything, it was TENSA Zangetsu that represented Ichigo's Shinigami half, and Shiro that represented the Hollow half and the Shikai.

The truth was, Ichigo, Not actually Going to see Tensa Zangetsu was unaware that they were ORIGINALLY one being, and that they were being split in half. Tensa Zangetsu is the true form of the hollow residing in ichigo's zanpakuto.


Bach-zangetsu is a totally different dude.

dark messiah verdandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 08:08 AM   #19
jacamo
Kekkei Genkai Sama
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,846
jacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendantjacamo is Ascendant
Default

this thread should be stickied for dark messiah verdandi's posts

Tensa-Zangetsu and Bach-Zangetsu are different guys as well?

i mean god damn

jacamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump
Quick Style Chooser


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.    

Design(s) Provided By: Neado Designs

Lifetricks.com Bestlifehacks.org Ben10-games.org
Spiderman-games.com Buyanewcase.com Addicting Games