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Old 12-07-2012, 10:51 AM   #41
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Mei can force Mid ranged combat, where Tsunade will be in a disadvantage. Tsunade's only shot is to do a lucky punch, but Mei knows of it, so thats very unlikely.

Tsunade is on a very bad situation now that she's being cut in half, which is something lava can do.

Tsunade HAS being hit many times, however, lava basically desingerates your skin, I don't think theres much she can do here.

I mean Tsunade fans here are assuming Tsunade is invincible or anything, but she is bound to die out by the lava. If she jumps, Mei can shoot lava at her, and it will be impossible to dodge there.

Katsuyu isn't doing anything in a Kage class battle. Mei's lava burns her as well.

And the acid mist that was melting Susanoo ribs, how does Tsunade counter that? Or Katsuyu?

Tsunade was just more useful againts Madara due to healing and Madara not dishing out techniques like Amaterasu, but the lava would work somewhat like Amaterasu, and is being incredibly under-rated.

If it's a durability match, of course Tsunade wins, but it isn't now is it?

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:23 AM   #42
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I think it could go either way. People tend to forget that Byakugo takes chakra and one of it's weak points is that the bigger the damage, the more chakra it'll cost.

While Mei's justu execution is quite good and she is not going to be blitzed by Tsunade in any way.

But since Tsunade just needs one punch (easier said than done. Konohamaru just needs a Kunai in the throat to kill Itachi). I say 50/50 considering the full knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pirate on Wheels View Post
Very useful is this.

Mei is obviously very fast with her defensive suitons, (she combo'd her water spout into a water dragon like...instantly) but we have Tsunade's blitz beating her seals speed to the punch vs Madara's fireballs. So within a certain distance, Tsunade has the paneled feats to bum rush Mei and smack her before she can do anything.
That was an exhausted Mei while Tsunade was being completely healing herself with Byakugo. It's not a fair comparison.

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #43
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Byakugo doesn't remove fatigue.

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Melodie View Post
Byakugo doesn't remove fatigue.
In mi opinion, a jutsu that heals a sword through someone's body and a magatama to the face, taking out her fatigue is not too crazy to think.

But ignoring that, Tsunade was less fatigated due to her healing damage while Mei and the others were not.

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:00 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
Tsunade is on a very bad situation now that she's being cut in half, which is something lava can do.
Lava doesn't cut, it melts.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
I mean Tsunade fans here are assuming Tsunade is invincible or anything, but she is bound to die out by the lava. If she jumps, Mei can shoot lava at her, and it will be impossible to dodge there.
Nobody's saying she is invicible, but Tsunade is a terrible match-up for Mei because she can pretty much tank every offense she has.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
Katsuyu isn't doing anything in a Kage class battle. Mei's lava burns her as well.
We have seen Katsuyu on two occasions: in Part 1 versus Orochimaru, and in Part 2 against Pain. Last time I checked, both Orochimaru and Pain are established Kage-level shinobi.

The slug survived Shinra Tensei [1], Chibaku Tensei [2] and Naruto's eight-tailed form corrosive chakra [3], and you think lava would be her doom?

Also, did you already take the time to realize how big Katsuyu is? Or how she can just split into thousand of smaller slugs to evade the torrents of lava? Not to mention Katsuyu herself can spit acid as well. Does Mei have a counter to that? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
And the acid mist that was melting Susanoo ribs, how does Tsunade counter that? Or Katsuyu?
Sasuke was low on chakra, hence why his Susanoo wasn't at its best. Then again, that happened in a sealed room.

This particular scenario leaves plenty of space for both Tsunade and Katsuyu to get out of range of the acid; that's common sense.

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Synn View Post

The slug survived Shinra Tensei [1], Chibaku Tensei [2] and Naruto's eight-tailed form corrosive chakra [3], and you think lava would be her doom?
To be fair, the slug was below Naruto's clothes. Naruto's clothes tanked CT and Kyuubi's corrosive cloack, not Katsuyu .

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TheIronMan View Post
To be fair, the slug was below Naruto's clothes. Naruto's clothes tanked CT and Kyuubi's corrosive cloack, not Katsuyu .
Yeah, that must be it. >___>

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:25 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Synn View Post
Lava doesn't cut, it melts.
I know, and her lower half body can be melted away easily.


Quote:
Nobody's saying she is invicible, but Tsunade is a terrible match-up for Mei because she can pretty much tank every offense she has.
She won't be tanking getting melted, and she has never had such a feat of surviving a jutsu Amaterasu-like like lava.

Quote:
We have seen Katsuyu on two occasions: in Part 1 versus Orochimaru, and in Part 2 against Pain. Last time I checked, both Orochimaru and Pain are established Kage-level shinobi.
Orochimaru with his hands sealed, which means no jutsu. And Pain didn't really target Katsuyu directly. I'm sure as hell Pain would have no problem putting Katsuyu down.


Quote:
Also, did you already take the time to realize how big Katsuyu is? Or how she can just split into thousand of smaller slugs to evade the torrents of lava? Not to mention Katsuyu herself can spit acid as well. Does Mei have a counter to that? No.
Yes she does. She can dodge it, and use her Water Dragon.

The acid mist, however, has a much bigger range, and thus can be Katsuyu and Tsunade's death.


Quote:
This particular scenario leaves plenty of space for both Tsunade and Katsuyu to get out of range of the acid; that's common sense.
No one has ever "gotten out of the range" of mist attack. Not Kakashi, not Madara, not no one.

Mizukage wins due to versatility and overally Ninjutsu>Taijutsu.

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:36 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
I know, and her lower half body can be melted away easily.
What does this have to do with anything? Tsunade doesn't start this match cut in half.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
She won't be tanking getting melted, and she has never had such a feat of surviving a jutsu Amaterasu-like like lava.
Doesn't meant she can't for a short period of time. In fact, every little feat we have of Tsunade when it comes to tanking points to that. She can pull it off, trust me.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
Orochimaru with his hands sealed, which means no jutsu. And Pain didn't really target Katsuyu directly. I'm sure as hell Pain would have no problem putting Katsuyu down.
Doesn't matter if Orochimaru had his arms sealed or not. Manda was there. Katsuyu survived.

Katsuyu survived Pain's two strongest techniques at all ranges possible! Do you need more proof than that? I'm pretty sure that the slug is way more resilient than Tsunade herself, so Mei isn't killing it.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
Yes she does. She can dodge it, and use her Water Dragon.
A Water Dragon can be easily dodged at range... It won't put down Katsuyu, and I wonder what Mei would do when a thousand of small slugs are surrounding her, attacking from all angles.

If she gets her eyes off of Tsunade, she is dead. It's that easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
The acid mist, however, has a much bigger range, and thus can be Katsuyu and Tsunade's death.

No one has ever "gotten out of the range" of mist attack. Not Kakashi, not Madara, not no one.
Tell me why Mei didn't use the acid mist against Madara then? Because it was an open area, probably.

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by tracytracy22 View Post
Well the lava was able to stick to those walls in the kage summit place. And susanoo is completely different to skin you know.
Aren't walls completely different from skin as well? It didn't stick to madara's fleshed version of susanoo, I think that's a much better representation of how it would fair against tsunade then an immobile wall.

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Originally Posted by tracytracy22 View Post
Also, the lava that Roshi used against Bee is a different form of lava used by Mei.
how? Isn't lava lava? Doesn't the notion that lava will stick to tsunade come from the properties of real-life lava, which would apply to Roshi's lava as well.

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Originally Posted by tracytracy22 View Post
Your right about Tsunade having greater tanking feats then Zetsu, but the continuous burn of that acid and lava would drain Tsunade's chakra.
She isn't in an enclosed environment she isn't going to take continuous damage from the acid, and I think I've given a good case that lava won't stick to her nearly as long as most are positing it does.


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Originally Posted by tracytracy22 View Post
I just dont see her being able to keep up her byakugou for as long as she was able to keep it up against Madara - the damage that Mei's lava and boil jutsu do are of a different nature than say Madara's susanoo swords and yasaka magatama.
The attacks being of a different nature shouldn't matter since tsunade's byakugo heals from both attacks in the same way: by replacing dead cells with new ones. It's all about how much flesh damage each attack does to her.

Also, I think its worth pointing out that while the gokage was fighting Madara, they were all being constantly healed and getting their chakra replenished by tsunade, so Tsunade's actual amount of time she can use byakugo should be noticeably greater than in the manga, and Mei's stamina should be noticably less.

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:24 PM   #51
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[quote=tracytracy22;45457351]But why would she need to spam her hidden mist and solid fog jutsu? Once the mist is up, its gonna stay their. Theres no need for her to spam it to maintain them. I guess she would use it to occasionally as a top up.

Your right about Tsunade's chakra reserves surpassing Mei's, but its not like Mei has a small chakra reserve. Her fighting style seems to involve spamming elemental techniques - its very taxing on her chakra, so she must have a pretty good chakra reserve to be able to fight the way she does.

Tsunade might be able to outlast Mei but Mei might end the fight much quicker than you think.


IIRC when zabuza was defeated his mist went away. So that implies to me that the user must use their chakra to keep it up because it is hard to believe that if mei died her technique would stay up. So yeah keeping two mist up would be taxing on her unless she has senju or bijuu level chakra reserves. It is not about spamming it, it is about keeping it activated which should take chakra. But you must forgive me using spamming was not the correct word.

Even if mei has a above average chakra reserve it would not be smart to use so many techs at once and then keep them activated while spraying lava because not only will she run out of chakra for techs but her speed, stamina, and other physical stats will falter from lack of chakra. Chakra=life force IIRC. It would just mei a easier target in the long run.

Mei will have to do some overpowered stuff to end tsunade. This women can regenerate for a lot of time and she is resilient to boot(plus she is durable). Mei mist are not one shot offenses and her lava will fail to melt tsunade unless mei's lava insta-melt things. So her regen is almost a absolute counter here. Add in katsuyu finding mei and spraying her with acid + setting up tsunade for the kill and mei is in trouble.

Mei would have to do some tricky shit to avoid getting killed..it will have to be something more efficient than spamming techs.

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Synn View Post
What does this have to do with anything? Tsunade doesn't start this match cut in half.
I never said that, but she will be melted away.

Lol. Your whole argument revolved around Katsuyu, which is honestly a fodder. She dissapears as soon as Tsunade gets killed anyway. Is it even IC for her to summon Katsuyu againts someone who doesn't use a boss summon?

-snip-


Last edited by Daenerys Stormborn; 12-07-2012 at 07:36 PM. Reason: edited to remove inappropriate comment
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
I never said that, but she will be melted away.
Needless to say you ran out of "arguments" rather quickly. I expected more of a challenge, honestly.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
Lol. Your whole argument revolved around Katsuyu, which is honestly a fodder.
You are quite funny, I'll give you that.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
Is it even IC for her to summon Katsuyu againts someone who doesn't use a boss summon?
When the intent is to kill, why not? But as I said in my first post, Katsuyu is a non-factor. Mei gets ripped apart as soon as Tsunade gets serious.

-snip-


Last edited by Daenerys Stormborn; 12-07-2012 at 07:37 PM. Reason: quoting edited post
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:31 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Synn View Post
Needless to say you ran out of "arguments" rather quickly. I expected more of a challenge, honestly.
You are the one naming Katsuyu, when her attacks can be lol dodged.


Quote:
When the intent is to kill, why not? But a I said in my first post, Katsuyu is a non-factor. Mei gets ripped apart as soon as Tsunade gets serious.
With what speed? She's a slow poke who Kabuto dodged like 30 times in Part 1, which was his worst field, but Mei will make her play her game which is using the Mist and throwing Lava, keeping her at distance and at bay. Theres nothing Tsunade can do to avoid that since the mist has a much more wide range than any of Tsunade's techniques, oh wait, she doesn't have any.

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Old 12-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #55
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Lol. Your whole argument revolved around Katsuyu, which is honestly a fodder.
Even people who hate and/or under-rate Tsunade as a whole almost universally accept the power of the immortal Katsuya- to the point where some of them wonder if Katsuya isn't a kage above her. Even for someone with an extremest out-look, your views are way out of sync with the community.

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Old 12-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
You are the one naming Katsuyu, when her attacks can be lol dodged.
I was just replying to your posts, since you seem highly misinformed.

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Originally Posted by KyuubiYondaime View Post
With what speed? She's a slow poke who Kabuto dodged like 30 times in Part 1, which was his worst field, but Mei will make her play her game which is using the Mist and throwing Lava, keeping her at distance and at bay. Theres nothing Tsunade can do to avoid that since the mist has a much more wide range than any of Tsunade's techniques, oh wait, she doesn't have any.
Why do people tend to bring Part 1 facts, when they have already been surpassed in Part 2? In case you forgot, Tsunade had hemophobia at the time and wasn't fighting him seriously or at her best anyway.

As for your speed question, The Pirate on Wheels already covered that in his previous post, so I'll just link you to that specific page again.

Tsunade is faster than Mei. It's a fact, deal with it.

Also, what good would it be for Mei to keep Tsunade at bay? You are making this a durability match with that statement, and you already admitted that Tsunade can outlast Mei in a previous post, not to mention Tsunade's chakra pool is colossal compared to Mei's (who would run out of it much faster).

Regarding Mei's Futton: Kōmu no Jutsu, she implied that its effects are maximized in a sealed, enclosed area [1]. Since you failed every attempt I gave you to link me to a single page of Mei using it against Madara, in an open area, I assume you completely ignored that part, hence proving me right on not having anything to debate with.

Lastly, rest assured that I already reported your previous post for your terrible attitude, which you just proved again by posting another baiting comment.

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Old 12-07-2012, 05:54 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ueharakk View Post
Also, I think its worth pointing out that while the gokage was fighting Madara, they were all being constantly healed and getting their chakra replenished by tsunade, so Tsunade's actual amount of time she can use byakugo should be noticeably greater than in the manga, and Mei's stamina should be noticably less.
If im not mistaken (I might be since i don't remember very well), Tsunade only healed then before using byakugo. After that she didn't. While Mei, Onoki and Gaara were fighting long before her.

If i'm right, there's no proof that she healed them off panel.

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Old 12-07-2012, 06:00 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TheIronMan View Post
If im not mistaken (I might be since i don't remember very well), Tsunade only healed then before using byakugo. After that she didn't. While Mei, Onoki and Gaara were fighting long before her.

If i'm right, there's no proof that she healed them off panel.
She healed Onoki and Gaara as soon as she got on the battlefield [1].

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Old 12-07-2012, 06:04 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Synn View Post
She healed Onoki and Gaara as soon as she got on the battlefield [1].
Yes, but i meant after she used Byakugo and started to fight. Or a bit before using byakugo.

If she didn't, all of them fought in the same starting conditions (with no damage) and lasted almost as much as her with byakugo. That is, counting from the point where she used Byakugo to fight.

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Old 12-07-2012, 06:07 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TheIronMan View Post
Yes, but i meant after she used Byakugo and started to fight. Or a bit before using byakugo.

If she didn't, all of them fought in the same starting conditions (with no damage) and lasted almost as much as her with byakugo. That is, counting from the point where she used Byakugo to fight.
Which sounds more tiring to you: standing on the same spot shooting lava and water from your mouth, or throwing kicks and punches left and right, occasionally healing others and replenishing their chakra pools?

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