To The Calcs & Likeminded - Naruto Forums
  • Free Naruto Games
  • Naruto Wallpaper
  • Want a Good Laugh Check out These Funny Pics
Welcome to the Naruto Forums. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Notices

Go Back   Naruto Forums > Konoha Sanitation > Konoha Recycling Heap > Outskirts Battledome Archive > Meta Battledome
 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-29-2012, 11:16 PM   #1
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default To The Calcs & Likeminded

It's truly amazing what you all do. Whether it's calculating the average density of the stone pillars in Hueco Mundo, disproving or validating FTL feats, or how much force is behind a Kamehameha it's astounding what goes occurs on this site and the OBD wiki.

One question that I have been asking myself over and over since I realized there was a dedicated calculation community is:

What do you think of the idea of fictional calculation software that makes this process very accessible to a non math person?

I'm asking because I'm interested in making such software. However, I have identified non technical issues surrounding such software that I want to address with the community before serious resources go towards its development.

Pride. I swear some of you are currently or could very well be science and math professors. James Kakalios would be proud. The point is that to do such involved calcs demands a certain level of skill and finesse. Exhibiting said skills can be a source of pride.

Would a program that makes such a process accessible to the masses infringe on this pride? Would I hear vet calculators scream from the mountaintops how such a program is ruining their community now that Newb Ownerton is coming up with density and force values out his ass saying he used the calculator?

Is This a Solution For a Real Problem? Meaning if I did go about and create the 'Ultimate Fictional Calculator' would people even want it? Would anyone give a damn? How many non calcs who use this site wish they had the time and/or skill to cross over to the hardcore math realm? Or is calculation more so a spectator event in which everyone likes to watch but no one wants to get involved?

What Would You Want? The only thing I am dead set on is accessibility. Aside from that, what would you like to see in this hypothetical fictional calculator? Built in indexes for averages? A graphical interface that resembles a 2D sidescroller? Let me know!

I just don't want to build something no one wants.

lihimsidhe is offline  
NarutoForums
        


Old 04-29-2012, 11:29 PM   #2
ChaosTheory123
Bored of Sanity
Kage
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The southern most region of Hell
Posts: 9,241
Blog Entries: 360
ChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is TranscendentChaosTheory123 is Transcendent
Default

Pride?

Nah.

I'm just here doing this for shits and giggles because its interesting.

If you want to make a program that can do this sort of thing, go ahead (not sure how you would. It'd probably just end up like a regular calculator with a multitude of equations and such built in I guess.)

Though, not sure why you'd suggest some of the stuff we do is inaccessible to the average person. I mean, Brohan cites doing this shit as a reason his math grade improved. I'm a psych major. I'd say we sort of represent the average non-math oriented person personally.

We just figured out how to count a bunch of pixels in an expedient manner and did a bunch of scalings. As long as you can do a bit of subraction and a small amount of division and multiplication, anyone can scale.

Still though, if you want to tackle this, feel free.

ChaosTheory123 is offline  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:39 PM   #3
Lucia
God of Shinobi
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,660
Blog Entries: 2
Lucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cuteLucia is pretty cute
Send a message via MSN to Lucia
Default

Doing calcs isn't that hard honestly. I've done a few myself. I just get bored halfway through. I let my nigga's GM and Chaos handle my light work

Lucia is offline  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:57 AM   #4
Lina Inverse
Lina Inverse Fanboy
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 6,610
Blog Entries: 1
Lina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is RapturousLina Inverse is Rapturous
Send a message via MSN to Lina Inverse
Default

you could prolly start by making a program that can read pixels in an image then translate it to, say, meters or feet based on input

good luck with that BTW

Lina Inverse is online now  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:04 AM   #5
jetwaterluffy1
Doesn't want a Custom Title
Legendary Ninja
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,602
Blog Entries: 25
jetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendantjetwaterluffy1 is Ascendant
Default

The only major problem with this is that you need to know where the numbers come from. If you got it to write this stuff out, you can hardly accuse someone of "coming up with density and force values out his ass saying he used the calculator". But if you get this to work that would be brilliant.

jetwaterluffy1 is offline  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:00 AM   #6
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default

I expected resistance towards this. I suppose I'm just paranoid. Anyways....

ChaosTheory123 wrote:

"If you want to make a program that can do this sort of thing, go ahead (not sure how you would. It'd probably just end up like a regular calculator with a multitude of equations and such built in I guess.)"


You're mostly on the mark. However it seems to make this truly accessible a visual element of the forces at work would go a great way at explaining what's going on.

Lina Inverse wrote:

"you could prolly start by making a program that can read pixels in an image then translate it to, say, meters or feet based on input."

Counting pixels? I have to say that never even occurred to me in the slightest. So let's say the calculator counts pixels for a give scan... should there be a standard quality/DPI to go off of? Your standard TIFF image will have more pixels than the crappiest JPEG you can find for example.

jetwaterluffy1 wrote:

"The only major problem with this is that you need to know where the numbers come from. If you got it to write this stuff out, you can hardly accuse someone of "coming up with density and force values out his ass saying he used the calculator". But if you get this to work that would be brilliant."


So what I'm taking away from this is that the calculations that go on 'under the hood' should always be retrievable. Not only that but this does give me the idea that calcuations should be able to be saved along with all the relevant media that went with them.

"Oooh you want that Getsaga Tenshou calculation? From the Grimmjow first encounter fight? Yeah let me get that. I have the file here somewhere."

Like that.

I'm grateful for the respones I have gotten thus far. I'm not looking to create a fully featured calculator from the get go. I'm looking to put together a streamlined program with a minimum set of features that people (you calculatur minded) actually want.

From there I plan to iterate the product based mostly on feedback with a dash of my own intuition.

So again thank you.

lihimsidhe is offline  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:52 AM   #7
Nevermind
Evil Nihilist
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 6,531
Blog Entries: 135
Nevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is Elysian
Send a message via Skype™ to Nevermind
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
Counting pixels? I have to say that never even occurred to me in the slightest. So let's say the calculator counts pixels for a give scan... should there be a standard quality/DPI to go off of? Your standard TIFF image will have more pixels than the crappiest JPEG you can find for example.
That shouldn't matter much. The ratios should still be the same due to the image's perspective, so the scaling should be unaffected.

One thing you might want to take a look at is my calc tools blog.

There's a variety of calculators that we all have to use. Integrating them all into one program would be most helpful and save a hell of a lot of time.

Nevermind is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #8
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default

@nevermind: i've been skimming your blogs since yesterday. holy christ man....

okay i want my goal in this potential project to be clear. i am friends with several programmers that have the know how to do this. i also have a vested interest in what the debating community, and the calculation community in particular, wants.

i want to truly find out what you calculators would want to see in an ultimate all in one calculator, relay that to programmers, and get a product up and running.

so i'm not too savvy with all this insane math you are all doing. i'm good with logic, with art, with driving military vehicles through hostile and ridiculous terrain in afghanistan but all that stuff in your blogs? it's mind boggling.

so let me throw this out there and see what happens.

lihimsidhe is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:55 PM   #9
cacomixl
Doesn't want a Custom Title
Genin
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 120
cacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant futurecacomixl has a brilliant future
Default

The only value I see in this is in teaching people basic formulas:

when I click the "how fast?" button, it asks me for distance and time. Interesting.

But see, all that information has to come from the scan and the user still has to act as intermediary between the scan and the program. As soon as the input demanded becomes more esoteric, your target consumer will become confused and enter incorrect values. Those who understand what's being asked for will use a basic calculator instead.

Better would be a blog explaining scale and perspective and listing some common formulas. You could then show by way of example how to interpret various scans and extract numerical values.

cacomixl is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #10
Nevermind
Evil Nihilist
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 6,531
Blog Entries: 135
Nevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is ElysianNevermind is Elysian
Send a message via Skype™ to Nevermind
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
@nevermind: i've been skimming your blogs since yesterday. holy christ man....

okay i want my goal in this potential project to be clear. i am friends with several programmers that have the know how to do this. i also have a vested interest in what the debating community, and the calculation community in particular, wants.

i want to truly find out what you calculators would want to see in an ultimate all in one calculator, relay that to programmers, and get a product up and running.

so i'm not too savvy with all this insane math you are all doing. i'm good with logic, with art, with driving military vehicles through hostile and ridiculous terrain in afghanistan but all that stuff in your blogs? it's mind boggling.

so let me throw this out there and see what happens.
Well it's not that hard, as Chaos mentioned already.

The first thing we'd need is a calculator that can handle really big numbers. This is the one that I use. You can find them all in those tools and Fluttershy has expanded mine a bit. But pretty much all of the ones listed we'd need, since we need to calculate various shit- one for mass there, one for KE there, etc.

You can start small if you want, and add more stuff later.

Nevermind is offline  
Old 05-02-2012, 05:28 PM   #11
JayDox
Doesn't want a Custom Title
Special Jounin
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 689
Blog Entries: 4
JayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truthJayDox is an honorable bastion of truth
Default

Go ahead and make it. I actually had this exact same idea last night. Though I have a major question: How would it calculate speed? I get how it could calc destructive capacity using pixels and mass destroyed and energy released. But what about speed?

Oh and I would buy it

JayDox is offline  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:02 AM   #12
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default

cacomixl wrote:

The only value I see in this is in teaching people basic formulas:

when I click the "how fast?" button, it asks me for distance and time. Interesting.

But see, all that information has to come from the scan and the user still has to act as intermediary between the scan and the program. As soon as the input demanded becomes more esoteric, your target consumer will become confused and enter incorrect values. Those who understand what's being asked for will use a basic calculator instead.


i agree. not only that it's the direction i want to go. you may have something with a calculator asking questions such as ,"how fast?" and inputing values that anyone can come up with. at the same time i see a need for something more comprehensive. at the very least it needs two layers: one for non math wizards and one for the wizards populating this board with the option to go in between seamlessly.

nevermind wrote:

You can find them all in those tools and Fluttershy has expanded mine a bit. But pretty much all of the ones listed we'd need, since we need to calculate various shit- one for mass there, one for KE there, etc.


if you could be more specific, that would be great. for example upon launch i would like to have the means for the calculator to do simple stuff like time, distance, and rate via the question method cacomix suggested. however, if there were some must have formulas (think top three) then by all means list them.

jaydox wrote:

Go ahead and make it. I actually had this exact same idea last night. Though I have a major question: How would it calculate speed? I get how it could calc destructive capacity using pixels and mass destroyed and energy released. But what about speed?

Oh and I would buy it.


making money off this is not my main concern at the moment. learning from you, everyone in this thread, and the hardcore calculators that do this simply because it's an extension of their adoration for a given media most definitely IS my main concern.

what i have seen so far is a need for a pixel counter. i was able to infer that since this thread has displayed a desire for a pixel counter that there presently was none. a google search turned up no pixel counters like the one being discussed here although i did come across an interesting blog by the name of pixelcounterrr. oh and a suggestion to upload images into photoshop and get pixel data that way.

but i don't think that's what is being asked for.

so with that said, i already contacted the people i'll be working with and and we are now exploring how to go about creating a pixel counter. keep in mind that doesn't mean i'm done collecting feedback. i will NEVER be done collecting feedback. this is just the beginning.

believe it or not but we are going to be building this together.

please keep the suggestions coming.

lihimsidhe is offline  
Old 05-03-2012, 06:58 PM   #13
ChINaMaN1472
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,334
ChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is Celestial
Default

/rant

Though I've been absent for a bit, IIRC calcs tend to use pretty basic formulas - we rarely ever dove into complex formulas that required "higher" math at all. A quick google search can probably find you a calculator for velocity, acceleration, distance, range, energy, and physical properties (mass, density, etc.). You'd need a basic understanding of how these formulas work still.

What's hard is actually seeing how those numbers can be derived. Thinking in a specific panel, how big something is, how far away something, etc. Then thinking what's changed in the next panel, how close is the object now, how big is the object now, etc. That's what's challenging.

Though, I'd say it'd be interesting to see what your take on this is exactly. The tools are already available - if someone isn't willing to take the time to learn them, chances are they won't be able to utilize this program correctly. You'll need to literally take them step by step. As with any calculation, it's easy to simply plug and chug some numbers and get an answer. If you don't understand some of the basic formulas and what not, you won't really know if you get a right answer. It's easy to say "well, I plugged all the numbers in right, so the answer has to be right" despite the fact logical reasoning would invalidate the calc.

Though having an "all in one" calc would be handy.

Also, I don't understand why you'd need a program for a pixel counter. MS Paint can already pixel count for the most part. The only math that's necessary are for diagonal lines, in which can use the Pythagorean Theory to get (a^2+b^2=c^2, where a and b are the length and height) the pixel count.


Last edited by ChINaMaN1472; 05-03-2012 at 07:14 PM.
ChINaMaN1472 is offline  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:42 PM   #14
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChINaMaN1472 View Post
/rant

What's hard is actually seeing how those numbers can be derived. Thinking in a specific panel, how big something is, how far away something, etc. Then thinking what's changed in the next panel, how close is the object now, how big is the object now, etc. That's what's challenging.

Also, I don't understand why you'd need a program for a pixel counter. MS Paint can already pixel count for the most part. The only math that's necessary are for diagonal lines, in which can use the Pythagorean Theory to get (a^2+b^2=c^2, where a and b are the length and height) the pixel count.
there is a feature of photoshop that creates a 3 dimensional grid that you can rotate on all axis. this grid feature helps a user conform a given media piece to the laws of perspective.

if you apply the same principle of a grid to a manga panel for instance and determine before hand that each grid square = x area then you could use this grid to determine distances with a great amount of accuracy. all you would have to do is align the grid with the perspective already present in the picture. if there were no clear vanishing points (such as a fight in the clouds or space) i suppose that's where human intuition would come into play.

so with the above solution in mind exactly why do calculators need to count pixels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChINaMaN1472 View Post
Though, I'd say it'd be interesting to see what your take on this is exactly.
I tend to be verbose (I'm working on it I swear!) so I will try to be clear.

I am interested in creating a calculator that can extract quantifiable data from subjective media. In other words what the calculator community is already doing on this site and the OBD Wiki. However, I want this calculator to be accessible to a non math person and useful to a math whiz just the same.

if this project actually takes off (simply meaning i get a lot of feedback because that's what i really need) i would love to implement a gary's mod type of feature done via NES era sprite graphics. however this feature would be to get a visual representation of the science at work or perhaps... just to mess around with.

lihimsidhe is offline  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #15
ChINaMaN1472
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,334
ChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is Celestial
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
there is a feature of photoshop that creates a 3 dimensional grid that you can rotate on all axis. this grid feature helps a user conform a given media piece to the laws of perspective.

if you apply the same principle of a grid to a manga panel for instance and determine before hand that each grid square = x area then you could use this grid to determine distances with a great amount of accuracy. all you would have to do is align the grid with the perspective already present in the picture. if there were no clear vanishing points (such as a fight in the clouds or space) i suppose that's where human intuition would come into play.

Interesting, didn't know photoshop had a feature like that. You have a link on that function, perhaps a tutorial?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
so with the above solution in mind exactly why do calculators need to count pixels?
I don't know, you were the one saying that you needed something to pixel count. I was simply saying that a simple program such as MS Paint can be used to pixel count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
I tend to be verbose (I'm working on it I swear!) so I will try to be clear.

I am interested in creating a calculator that can extract quantifiable data from subjective media. In other words what the calculator community is already doing on this site and the OBD Wiki. However, I want this calculator to be accessible to a non math person and useful to a math whiz just the same.

if this project actually takes off (simply meaning i get a lot of feedback because that's what i really need) i would love to implement a gary's mod type of feature done via NES era sprite graphics. however this feature would be to get a visual representation of the science at work or perhaps... just to mess around with.
Sorry for the poor wordage, I understand what you are trying to do. I'm just interested on how it will be done.

As I said, the biggest obstacle with calcs isn't the math part. The formulas, scaling, etc. is mostly arithmetic, rarely every going past Algebra or Geometry. What's hard is conceiving the concept that you can have this line of thinking...

The scenario: We see an object drop from an "unknown height" in one panel, and see it's relative position in another panel. Mr. Person moved some "unknown distance" during that time in some other panels. How fast is Mr. Person?

The thought process: We need to scale something and find how far the object fell, and the distance Mr. Person moved. Once we find the how far the object fell, we can use gravity to determine a time frame, and once we have a time frame, can determine Mr. Person's speed.

The hard part is connecting something in free fall to someone traveling. It doesn't have anything to do with math (well, it does, just not from a numbers perspective). I'm just interested on how you'll be able to make an app/calculator for "a non math person" to be able to relay that information with minimal error.

ChINaMaN1472 is offline  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:37 PM   #16
God Movement
Admanistrator
God of Shinobi
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Space
Posts: 21,648
Blog Entries: 141
God Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is DivineGod Movement is Divine
Default

This would be pretty cool.

God Movement is offline  
Old 05-06-2012, 06:01 AM   #17
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChINaMaN1472 View Post

Interesting, didn't know photoshop had a feature like that. You have a link on that function, perhaps a tutorial?
http://photoshopcafe.com/tutorials/g...ctive_Grid.htm

That gives you the basics on the tool. It's not comprehensive but it's enough.

http://www.lihimsidhe.daportfolio.com/gallery/142756#3

This is an illustration I did. Take note of the hexagon plane. To do that all I did was to create one hexagon in Photoshop, copy, paste, and align hexagons until I had eight or so looking like they were connected. Then from there I kept copying and pasting until I had a MASSIVE hexagon plane. I selected the plane and did a Free Transform on the plane until it was at the perspective I wanted.

I could easily do the same thing with squares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChINaMaN1472 View Post
I don't know, you were the one saying that you needed something to pixel count. I was simply saying that a simple program such as MS Paint can be used to pixel count.
This thread expressed a need for software that counted pixels. The programmer I'm working with already whipped up a prototype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChINaMaN1472 View Post
The scenario: We see an object drop from an "unknown height" in one panel, and see it's relative position in another panel. Mr. Person moved some "unknown distance" during that time in some other panels. How fast is Mr. Person?
I follow you. Until a mangaka comes straight out and states something it's up to us to speculate always knowing in the back of our minds that we'll never have THE true answer....

...but at the same time hoping we can arrive at A true answer.

Fans can do that if they have the tools to aggregate their work. For example if 1,000 hardcore Bleach fans all give different answers for the 'unknown height', 'unknown object', and 'unknown distance'... you can average those answers together.

And use that average as a basis for doing calcs.

And if someone doesn't like it or disagrees they can do their own scenarios based on whatever they like. If people like it then it will garner attention. Simple as that.

Because if you can't find any kind of truth in a given fiction's dedicated fanbase exactly where are you going to find it?

That's why I'm here after all. That's why we are all here.

lihimsidhe is offline  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:08 AM   #18
Tranquil Fury
Unlimited Fruit Basket
Final Villain
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 26,055
Tranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is DivineTranquil Fury is Divine
Default

This thread has my interest.

Tranquil Fury is online now  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:17 PM   #19
lihimsidhe
Likes to Debate-Kun
Genin
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 129
lihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hopelihimsidhe is a paragon of hope
Send a message via AIM to lihimsidhe Send a message via Yahoo to lihimsidhe Send a message via Skype™ to lihimsidhe
Default

So it seems that there's a fair amount of interest here but very little feedback. Why is that?

In all the books I've read on developing products and services one thing has always been clear: listen to what people want. I come here, put out my ear and I hear crickets for the most part.

So I think I'm just going to develop this on my own. If anyone would like to try out the prototype version I got done based on the very little feedback I got I'll have it posted up on my website soon.

lihimsidhe is offline  
Old 05-07-2012, 03:12 AM   #20
ChINaMaN1472
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,334
ChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is CelestialChINaMaN1472 is Celestial
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
http://photoshopcafe.com/tutorials/g...ctive_Grid.htm

That gives you the basics on the tool. It's not comprehensive but it's enough.

http://www.lihimsidhe.daportfolio.com/gallery/142756#3

This is an illustration I did. Take note of the hexagon plane. To do that all I did was to create one hexagon in Photoshop, copy, paste, and align hexagons until I had eight or so looking like they were connected. Then from there I kept copying and pasting until I had a MASSIVE hexagon plane. I selected the plane and did a Free Transform on the plane until it was at the perspective I wanted.

I could easily do the same thing with squares.
Cool beans, I'll have to try it out and see how it compares with other methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
This thread expressed a need for software that counted pixels. The programmer I'm working with already whipped up a prototype.
And yet, MS Paint can do the necessary function if you can drag a mouse. Converting the pixels so you can scale it would be the tool I'm hoping he's whipping up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
I follow you. Until a mangaka comes straight out and states something it's up to us to speculate always knowing in the back of our minds that we'll never have THE true answer....

...but at the same time hoping we can arrive at A true answer.
You missed my point with the scenario. It was to convey the thought process behind doing a calc. If all you're given is an object falling and someone moving a distance, how would you find the speed? THAT'S what's challenging about doing calcs.

Doing calcs is about finding an answer with what the mangaka shows us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
Fans can do that if they have the tools to aggregate their work. For example if 1,000 hardcore Bleach fans all give different answers for the 'unknown height', 'unknown object', and 'unknown distance'... you can average those answers together.

And use that average as a basis for doing calcs.

And if someone doesn't like it or disagrees they can do their own scenarios based on whatever they like. If people like it then it will garner attention. Simple as that.
A Fanbase can and will likely have bias. And it's easy to overestimate when you like something and look at it less objectively - because people (on forums) tend to favor their preferred fiction over fictions that display similar power tendencies (for instance, One Piece vs. Bleach vs. Naruto).

Averaging 1000 calcs is meaningless, if all 1000 calcs are done incorrectly. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right, and just because something is right, doesn't mean it's popular. Now, if the tools are used correctly, then most of the calcs should come pretty close anyway.

For instance, I've seen other forums where the consensus are putting Ichigo in the same league as Goku - based on feats shown, mostly due to the artistic style of Bleach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
Because if you can't find any kind of truth in a given fiction's dedicated fanbase exactly where are you going to find it?

That's why I'm here after all. That's why we are all here.
You find truth in people who can objectively look at the data and analyze it correctly. Doing calcs, and churning out a number is only part of the process. Analyzing whether that number makes sense is the other part.

It's difficult for most people to wrap their heads around what Mach 15 ACTUALLY means, and applying it to the given scenario. It's easy to say "oh yea, these calcs put Character A at Mach 13 and these other calcs put Character B at Mach 11. Character A would probably blitz" because it's just being reduced down to a simple number. And yet in reality, Character A probably wouldn't blitz. He'd have a speed advantage, but it wouldn't be an outright blitz.

Another is assuming the speed of a particular object or person, and then churning out a number based on that speed, which rarely ever works because the resulting speed ends up being multiple times faster than the assumed speed, which makes the scenario completely illogical. But it's easy to come to the conclusion and accept the answer because the formula(s) used were all correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lihimsidhe View Post
So it seems that there's a fair amount of interest here but very little feedback. Why is that?

In all the books I've read on developing products and services one thing has always been clear: listen to what people want. I come here, put out my ear and I hear crickets for the most part.

So I think I'm just going to develop this on my own. If anyone would like to try out the prototype version I got done based on the very little feedback I got I'll have it posted up on my website soon.
It's probably because understanding how to do calcs requires filling in a gap of education. Once you realize how to do calcs, all the tools are already available - probably just inconvenient. If you don't know how to do calcs, well, it's tough to figure out the tools that you need.

Here's a question: A cannon ball flies through the air and is intercepted by Mr. Person from what looks to be a 45° angle. How would derive Mr. Person's speed? What tools do YOU need to figure that out?

Because from what it sounds like, that is what you're looking for in this thread - at least for a specific scenario.

I can lay out my thought process and it'd probably help you formulate an idea of what you'd need, but the reason why you're probably getting crickets is because people that don't know how to do calcs don't know how to approach the problem. People that know how do to the calcs proceed to do it like it's second nature. See my example from before - that thought process happens pretty instantaneously for the seasoned calcers.

It's similar to the gap of education in fixing in a computer. A majority of people don't understand how a computer works, and use it because it functions, but can't fix it when it breaks. The people that do understand it can practically diagnose it blindfolded and do all the steps without really thinking about it.


Last edited by ChINaMaN1472; 05-07-2012 at 03:32 AM.
ChINaMaN1472 is offline  
 
Thread Tools
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump
Quick Style Chooser


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.    

Design(s) Provided By: Neado Designs

Lifetricks.com Bestlifehacks.org Ben10-games.org
Spiderman-games.com Buyanewcase.com Addicting Games