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Old 12-04-2011, 04:47 PM   #1
Turrin
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Default Why I believe Tobi = Obito has Some Merit

Intro


As most of you probably know I made a serious theory I while back that Tobi is in-fact the Juubi & than I made a not nearly as serious theory about Tobi perhaps being Uchiha Setsuna. Now I'd like to make one more serious guess at Tobi's identity being Uchiha Obito. This is a long standing theory so I'm not going to approach discussing this in the common way this theory is discussed, I.E. talking about the things listed in the above picture or how their name's are anagrams since I believe there are about a hundred theories where this information can already be found [Plus the provided above picture] & the potential counter points to it have already been addressed probably hundreds of times at this point. What I want to focus on instead is why Tobi turning out to be Obito may make sense from a story structure perspective.

The Puppet Master

One of the biggest elements of the story thus far is that Tobi acts as the main puppet master. He controlled Nagato who in turn controlled the Akatsuki organization, which is pretty much the source of the Naruto world's problems throughout much of the plot. Later when Nagato was "defeated" he took over the role as active leader, but also seems to be controlling Sasuke to eventually take Nagato's. On top of this Tobi was the one controlling the Demon Fox the night Naruto's parents died.

While there are hints that perhaps Uchiha Madara may be the ultimate puppet master even behind Tobi, Kabuto has shed some doubt on this when he tells Madara that Tobi's goals might not completely coincide with his own. Therefore other than the fact that Tobi & Madara worked together at one point & time it's unclear if they are partners or if one is using thee other. However until more information is revealed Tobi can be seen as the main puppet master & it's unlikely this will change before Tobi's identity is revealed, considering that the reveal of his Identity is hinted to be coming at the end of the current Naruto + B v.s. Tobi battle:



The Dramatic Reveal


Ever since Tobi's introduction Kishi has been baiting fans when it comes to his identity. At first Tobi was portrayed the comic relief of Akatsuki, used by Kishi merely to bring some light into the gloomy criminal syndicate that was Akatsuki, but than it was later revealed that Tobi's persona as Deidara's silly partner was merely him feigning stupidity and he was in-fact the mastermind pulling the Akatsuki Leader's strings. After that Kishi revealed him to be Uchiha Madara the embittered rival of the First Hokage & for a while there, there was some question about his identity being that of the Fourth Mizukage, until it was revealed that Tobi or Madara was simply controlling the real Fourth Mizukage with Genjutsu. Finally we are now told Tobi is not Madara & he claims to be no one, though readers are quickly reminded by Naruto that Tobi has to be someone:


So its clear that Kishi wants his readers to keep speculating on the identity of Tobi, he is not content with the option that Tobi is simply a no body in the story. After all Kishi has messed with readers when it comes to revealing Tobi's identity time & time again, there has been so many times where Tobi is about to take of his mask or his mask is about to break, but in the end something prevents this from happening, leading to an anticlimax. Even in recent chapters there blatant examples of this when Naruto headbutts Tobi & than the mask turn out to be adamantium [I guess???] or even more frustrating example of this can be seen in this scene:


Kishi would not toy with Tobi's identity & the Fans to this extent unless he was building up to a major climax, when Tobi's identity is actually revealed, & the only way to avoid Tobi's reveal being an anticlimax is to have Tobi be a character that is shocking & unexpected to readers, but at the same time is a known & fairly well developed character.

At this point I'm sure you guys are saying, "Ah but Turrin, what about Pain turning out to be the new character Nagato". This statement is true, but at the same time it's false. Nagato was a relatively new character introduced in the series, but by the time Kishi revealed Pain's true identity to be Nagato, Kishi had already spent several chapters establishing Nagato & giving him a voice and personality as a character via Jiriaya's flashbacks. On top of that while Pain's identity was set up as a major mystery for the character's within the manga, Kishi didn't nearly mindfuck with fans to the extent he has with Tobi. Pain's identity ever since the Nagato flashback & Jiriaya fight was heavily foreshadowed to be Nagato, there were some alternate theories on the part of the fan's, but the most compelling case to be made was overwhelmingly for Nagato to be Pain. This is not the case for Tobi, because Kishi wants fans to be more involved with the mystery of Tobi's identity than in the case of Pain.

"Narrowed It Down To The Guy I Recognize"

Due to Tobi being portrayed as the main puppet master and the author spending so much time building up Tobi's unmasking it's more likely that Tobi is a character that fan's will recognize. I'd also like to clarify that i'm not just talking about appearance wise, but recognize in the sense that his character has already been impart established to fan's. Now taking this into consideration there are not many characters that fit this bill. Uchiha Kagami, Elder or Younger Son's of the Sage, Uchiha Setsuna, etc... can automatically be ruled as unlikely. However it doesn't stop there; Uchiha Izuna & Fugeku can also be ruled as unlikely, since while we know a bit about them & their back story their characterization has not been well established within the manga cannon, I.E. we don't see any several chapter flashbacks dealing with their motivation as characters or personality, like in the case of Nagato. In-fact the same thing could be said about Tobi being Juubi, but not entirely & I'll get to why later.

Tobi being revealed as any of these characters would ultimately end in an anti-climax because none of the fans really know or care about these characters. Now I suspect people will be saying at this point two things:

1. "I Care about [Insert 1 of the characters here], because I'm interested in there character, techniques, back story, etc..."

2. "These Characters' personality & motivation can be established after the dramatic reveal of them being Tobi"

The problem with the first counter argument is that, being interested in a unknown character is not the same thing as caring about that character. I'm interested in that 45 year old Genin back from the Chuunin Exams, but I really don't care about what happens to his character, because there is no reason to care since his character hasn't been established. The problem with the second counter argument is that character's motivations can be exposed after there identity is revealed, but the character himself/herself is never exposed after the reveal. Again I'll use the Nagato example, Nagato's character was established before the reveal, while his motivation was established after the reveal. The same will likely hold true for Tobi.

The only character that Tobi could be who hasn't quite been established is the Juubi & this is because the Nine Bijuu are all part of the Juubi, so potentially the characterizations of the other Nine Bijuu such as Shukaku, Kyuubi, & Hachibi could all work as Juubi's own characterization.

Now with the suspects narrowed down, who fits the bill of a character fan's would recognize; pretty much the only characters that apply are Obito whose characterization was established in Gaiden, DB II, & partly through Kakashi, Zetsu whose character has been established throughout Part II of the manga, & Juubi whose characterization could be partly established due to the other Bijuu.

However out all three of these candidates it seems like Obito is the most natural fit. He has better characterization than the Juubi, yet is not over exposed to the extent that Zetsu has been. To use Nagato as an example again Obito fits perfectly into the same niche as him. Obito had a flashback establishing his character, but even after the dramatic reveal his past would still be interesting to fan's, since like Nagato one would wounder how Obito came to be Tobi. Basically what I'm trying to stress here is in terms of structuring the story to meet the end goal which in this case is a climatic reveal, Obito probably makes the most sense.


Last edited by Turrin; 12-04-2011 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:48 PM   #2
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Kishimoto's Ideal Villain


With talking about how Obito makes perhaps the most sense for the dramatic reveal aspect out of the way i'm going to talk about how Obito potentially makes the most sense thematically as well. Too be perfectly honest Kishimoto's ideal villain has become so easy to spot that you just have chuckle a little bit at Kishimoto's utter obsession with this villain archetype. This being the archetype where we have a team which parallels or in-fact is Team 7 & 1 of the characters in that team ends up going down the wrong path due to some tragedy and the guy becomes one of the main villains & is usually responsible for the death of his master. Who was the first big villain of the Naruto series: Orochimaru, Who was the next big Villain & is again to some degree: Sasuke, who was the next big villain after Part I Sasuke: Nagato. Who was the next big villain after Nagato: Danzo. We could even probably throw Madara into this category as well considering that Hashirama parallels Naruto, Madara's Parallels Sasuke, & I wouldn't be surprised if Mito paralleled Sakura.

So considering how consistent with archetype kishi is, it seems likely that Tobi was once a member of a Team that Paralleled Team 7 & probably caused his master's death. The character who best fits this description is Obito, since he's from a team that parallels Team 7 & if he's Tobi he would be directly responsible for his master's [Minato Namikaze's] death. Other than Obito's Team there really isn't any other Team left which parallel's Team 7, which hasn't produced a villain of some kind already, so i'm not seeing many options here for Kishi other than to make Obito Tobi, if he wishes to continue his pattern, which Kishi obviously believes is fairly important to the story since he was willing to make every single major villain have the same generic back story in this regard, in-order to maintain the pattern thus far.

"Alike and Antithetical Adversaries"



"Humans are naturally social beings, and we can tell a lot about a person by knowing what groups they're a part of. What's more, we can tell a lot about a conflict depending on who makes up the given groups. Authors can take advantage of this to design the overtones of a conflict by engineering the groups at war into being homogenous (all alike) and/or heterogenous (all different). This can have up to four combinations* , as detailed below."

Considering Kishimoto's ideal villain as described above, it's not hard to imagine that Tobi will in a way be someone who aside from his Tobi persona acts as the antithesis to Naruto, the same way that Oro does to Jiriaya, for example. So far most of Naruto's enemies have been the Antithesis to him in the same sense that Sasuke is his antithesis, I.E. those who have some genetic inborn advantage that makes them a Genius, who starts out as an emo. What I find interesting about Obito is that if he is Tobi, he wouldn't be the a Sasuke type antithesis, rather he would be thee ultimate antithesis to Naruto considering that Obito was exactly like Naruto back in the day, yet something change him to the exact opposite - Tobi.

In terms of structuring the story where Tobi is the Final Villain whose pulling all the strings or if someone greater than him like Madara is pulling the strings this development suits the story really well. If Obito is the final villain than Naruto in the final battle is forced to defeat his exact opposite & ultimate state he would be reduced to if he were to fail. If Obito is merely the main puppet of the ultimate mastermind, it shows that whoever the final villain is, is dangerous enough where he was able to control & corrupt someone who had the same ideals and characterization as Naruto, which would make the final villain not only a physical threat, but a mental one as well.

So Many Questions, So little Answers

Kakashi Gaiden introduced use to many new characters & answered one of the more mysterious parts of the Naruto story: How did Kakashi get his Sharingan eye? However fortunately or unfortunately [depends on how you look at it], it did not answer all of our questions on Kakashi's past. Two of the biggest questions that Gaiden did not answer are:

1. What happened to Rin?
2. How did Kakashi transform his transplant Sharingan into Mangekyo?

Both these questions are clearly very important to understanding Kakashi's character, yet even hundreds of chapters after these questions were raised Kishi has still avoided answering them, which is interesting to me, because Kishi could have easily told Fans how Rin died in DB II & could have easily had Kakashi explain how he gained Mangekyo when he first used it in the first arc of Part II. The fact that all these events tied to Obito remain unanswered means Obito's reemergence would be the perfect plot device to brings exposition to these questions. Thus for a story structure perspective it makes sense that Kakashi would not mention how Rin died or how he got Mangekyo yet, if these things were being saved due to their connect to Obito, until the dramatic reveal of Tobi = Obito.


I Have Never Trusted Studio Pierrot


I have talked about how Obito makes sense from a story perspective for the manga, but I want to discuss how Obito makes sense from a production standpoint of the Naruto Anime. Kakashi Gaiden was a story that was told between Part I & Part II in the manga, but in the anime this story does not get told until mid Season 6 of Naruto Shippuden. Why would the Studio Pierrot wait so long to release this story line of the manga? Perhaps it was because they were waiting for a place where they needed filler to let the Cannon material get ahead of them again, but that can't be it because there was a massive filler arc (longest one in the series, I believe) before the release of Gaiden. On top of that the release of Gaiden seems totally random in placement, well at least until you do your research. Kakashi Gaiden was released a couple months after the chapter where Kakashi talking to the White Fang was featured in the manga.

It's clear that Studio Pierrot realized they couldn't keep putting off Kakashi Gaiden, because fan's would need to know the White Fan's back story to understand Kakashi's character development during the Pain arc. But why were they holding off Kakashi Gaiden in the first place? Could it be that they ether were told by Kishi or believed Obito was Tobi & they wanted to avoid casting the wrong voice actor? I wouldn't blame anyone who reads this & thinks i'm reaching here a bit & I agree to a certain extent this a is a big reach, but one has to agree that the timing of Gaiden is suspicious and how they held off releasing it until they realized they had to, was also suspicious.

"That's not true that's impossible!!!"


Most of the people who are against the idea of Tobi being Obito hold the same counter argument's & those are:

1. Obito is dead
2. Obito has no motivation

These would be two good points in another work of fiction but unfortunately they fall short in Kishi's manga, especially in the case of Tobi. We have seen Tobi hanging out with guys who possess the Ranningan which contains power over life & Death and we have seen Tobi hanging out with Zetsu who is a creation made from Senju Hashirama's DNA and contains his enhanced life force powers. He also hung out with tons of monsters within Akatsuki that had mastered Immortality or regenerative type abilities. There are an infinite number of ways in which Obito's life could have been saved or he could have been brought back from the dead if he was indeed Tobi.

I'm sure that people will ask why someone decided to bring random Uchiha back to life, to which I ask why did Madara or Tobi give Rannigan to a random Uzamaki? The author in these cases probably just wants fans to assume that guys like Nagato or Obito have hidden potential that can be seen by others. For example like how Orochimaru saw the potential in Sasuke's eyes to surpass Itachi's during the Chuunin Exams.

Also Obito has more than a decent motive. Obito was in love with Rin & gave his life & birth right [Sharingan] to save her & ensure she was protected. We know despite this Rin died later in life. If you combine the fact that Obito nearly died because of war & Obito lost his love of his life due to war, I could see his ideology becoming twisted to believe the world is hopeless & should just be under his complete control, I.E. Darth Vader Syndrome.

Plus Kishi literally just did the same exact thing with Nagato. Nagato was shown in flashbacks to pretty much be a great guy as Obito was, but than there was some tragedy & he went insane. So logically Kishi can easily do the same with Tobi - Obito & in-fact there is a precedence for it.

Conclusion

Tobi being Obito has many pluses from a story structure standpoint: Obito is Kishimoto's ideal villain, Tobi being revealed to be Obito would be Climatic, his role as the ultimate antithesis to Naruto would add greater depth to the manga whether he's FV or FV's main puppet, & there may even be some hint in the Anime team's production of Shippuden that they at least consider Obito a likely option.

Ether way this was a long one, but I thought I needed to spend this amount of time to detail the reasoning appropriately since people seem to ether hate or love the idea of Tobi being Obito. Anyway Thanks for Reading, if you made it this far, and tell me your thoughts.


Last edited by Turrin; 12-04-2011 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:04 PM   #3
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At this point I hope there is a black hole behind that mask.

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Old 12-04-2011, 05:38 PM   #4
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The theory is great but to expected.

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Old 12-04-2011, 05:43 PM   #5
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I appreciate the time you put in this. What about Obito's age gap though? If Tobi fought Minato, it is impossible for Obito to be the attacker, especially when it was only a few years later.

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Old 12-04-2011, 05:54 PM   #6
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Is there a bandwagon Turrin won't jump on? First Tobi was Danzou, then Tobi was juubi, now Tobi is Obito? LOL

I don't have have to bring up the many reasons why Tobi is not Obito, I will leave that to others

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Old 12-04-2011, 05:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samehada View Post
I appreciate the time you put in this. What about Obito's age gap though? If Tobi fought Minato, it is impossible for Obito to be the attacker, especially when it was only a few years later.
How so? We saw Kakashi in that flashback and he clearly went through a major growth spurt, he's not as tall as Tobi, but people grow at different rates. For example Itachi even when he's very young pretty much looks the same as when he is 21 - 23 in the story. And a real life example one of my best friends went from 5.0 ~ 5.3 to 6.0 ~ 6.1 by the age of 12 ~ 13. Other than that there hasn't been much to gauge Tobi's age on since we have really only seen his eyes and his hands, which could pretty much apply to any age.

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:07 PM   #8
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I would question the time line aspect. Firstly, Nagato already had rinnegan during the thied ninja war. At that time, Obito would have been a little child; so how could he have a hand in giving Nagato the rinnegan? Secondly, Tobi's attack on Konoha seems only a few years after Kakashi Gaiden, would Obito have grown this much, both physically and in abilities? Thirdly, it seemed like Madara knew who Tobi was, and I don't think Obito would have been alive when Madara died as Madara's edo looks quite young.

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:13 PM   #9
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It just seems unconvincing to have someone who is mainly important to Kakashi to not only survived his fatal injuries(without coming back to Konoha), become evil, take over the world and be the main villain.

Of course there are still a large amount of writing gymnastics needed for Kishi to fill out everything we know that Tobi has done from giving Nagato the Rinnegan, his relation with Madara etc.

It just seems odd all for the sake of perhaps a twist.

If you going to that far. Tobi might as well be future Sasuke who became disillusioned with the world.

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammarz View Post
I would question the time line aspect. Firstly, Nagato already had rinnegan during the thied ninja war. At that time, Obito would have been a little child; so how could he have a hand in giving Nagato the rinnegan? Secondly, Tobi's attack on Konoha seems only a few years after Kakashi Gaiden, would Obito have grown this much, both physically and in abilities? Thirdly, it seemed like Madara knew who Tobi was, and I don't think Obito would have been alive when Madara died as Madara's edo looks quite young.
1. If Tobi is obito one would assume it's the real Madara that gave Nagato the Rannigan

2. Itachi pretty much grew that much physically and in terms of abilities at a young age

3. Madara looks young due to Kabuto altering Madara's body so that it would be back to the way it was in it's prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaskedMenace View Post
It just seems unconvincing to have someone who is mainly important to Kakashi to not only survived his fatal injuries(without coming back to Konoha), become evil, take over the world and be the main villain.

Of course there are still a large amount of writing gymnastics needed for Kishi to fill out everything we know that Tobi has done from giving Nagato the Rinnegan, his relation with Madara etc.

It just seems odd all for the sake of perhaps a twist.

If you going to that far. Tobi might as well be future Sasuke who became disillusioned with the world.
Like I said in the OP Kishi already did the same thing with Nagato - Pain so I don't see why people think it's a stretch that he did the same thing with Obito - Tobi. & Future Sasuke come on now.

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrin View Post
1. If Tobi is obito one would assume it's the real Madara that gave Nagato the Rannigan

2. Itachi pretty much grew that much physically and in terms of abilities at a young age

3. Madara looks young due to Kabuto altering Madara's body so that it would be back to the way it was in it's prime
Well these could be plausible explanations if the author wanted them to be...

Edit: But didn't Tobi tell Konan that he spurred Yahiko to form Akatsuki and gave Nagato the Rinnegan. One can of course claim that he was lying (pretending to be Madara). But he was about to kill Konan, so I don't see a reason for him to lie and it also looked to me that he was telling the truth. But we can only know for sure only when Kishi finally reveals the truth.

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:33 PM   #12
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Rin is a big mystery.
Obito is meh...at this point. With Kakashi on the opposite side of the battlefield and seemingly unconnected to the Tobi story line.


Last edited by tanman; 12-04-2011 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrin View Post
How so? We saw Kakashi in that flashback and he clearly went through a major growth spurt, he's not as tall as Tobi, but people grow at different rates. For example Itachi even when he's very young pretty much looks the same as when he is 21 - 23 in the story. And a real life example one of my best friends went from 5.0 ~ 5.3 to 6.0 ~ 6.1 by the age of 12 ~ 13. Other than that there hasn't been much to gauge Tobi's age on since we have really only seen his eyes and his hands, which could pretty much apply to any age.
Touche mate, touche....

Does this mean you also support that Zetsu found Obito? We see that Tobi removes his hand when fighting Minato meaning he had regen powers from an early time. What would happen that would give Obito that ability? He must have had found Zetsu before the Kyuubi attack but that also must mean he had Hashirama's DNA before the attack too

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:39 PM   #14
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Turrin, answer these questions:

1. How and why did the Kyuubi recognize Obito on the night it attacked Konoha?
2. Where did Obito acquire Senju cells from?
3. How does he know so much about the Jubi, Rikudou Sennin, and Madara's personal life, considering his age makes it impossible for him to have even met the real Madara?
4. How does he know about the Mangekyou Sharingan, much less the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan?
5. How does he know about the Rinnegan?
6. When and where did he meet Nagato, and how could he have been the one pulling the strings in Akatsuki's shadow if the organization was founded when he wasn't even alive yet?
7. Where do his intangibility and space-time ninjutsu originate from?
8. Who was manipulating Yagura?
9. How did Obito prevent Itachi from finding out who he really was?
10. Why would Obito bother massacring the Uchiha?
11. Why does he hate the Senju, whose Will of Fire he died for, and why was he so intent on destroying Konoha?
12. Why would he concoct something like the Moon's Eye Plan?
13. How did Minato not recognize Obito's voice during the Kyuubi's attack, considering it happened only a year after his supposed "death?"

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Old 12-04-2011, 07:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by vagnard View Post
At this point I hope there is a black hole behind that mask.
Seconded

My main beef with the Obito theory is that it cheapens Obito's death. He died for a cause and now he's back to do....what exactly? His love for Rin and wanting the world to be peaceful? Are we forgetting the panels where Tobi jizzed at Karin getting piereced, does that sound like a man that dislikes wars? It would not be climatic, it just wouldn't make sense.

And why would Madara (a power whore) bother with someone as weak as Obito? There is also a timeline dilemma that Madara died when Nagato was just a child. In order for someone to continue Madara's plan that person had to be an adult and Obito should have been very young when Madara died.

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Old 12-04-2011, 08:36 PM   #16
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This is a thread I agree with. I agree with your other theory that Tobi could be the Jubi in human form, but I think Obito is the most likely theory.

However, I don't think at first it was solely Obito. I feel there is a good chance that Madara was possessing and controlling Obito. However, Obito's personality started coming out more and more

EDIT

Madara seems like a cautious man and believe he left part of his soul in Obito. However, Obito at some point managed to regain control.

He never got the chance to live the life he wanted and his eye of the moon plan is a chance to live the fantasy he wished. He was rebuilt with the parts of Zetsu/Hashirama made him a Rikoudo like Madara.

This can further tie into the Uchiha story since he has a resemblance to Shishui.

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Old 12-04-2011, 08:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by silenceofthelambs View Post
[font="Courier New"][color="Blue"][b]Turrin, answer these questions:
Okay

Quote:
1. How and why did the Kyuubi recognize Obito on the night it attacked Konoha?
The kyuubi was most likely going off power & not appearance, because well how could he have recognized Tobi by appearance. Kyuubi probably assumed Tobi was Madara just like everyone else assumed this, or the Kyuubi met Tobi at some other point.

Quote:
Where did Obito acquire Senju cells from?
Madara or Zetsu, since he clearly knows both of them

Quote:
How does he know so much about the Jubi, Rikudou Sennin, and Madara's personal life, considering his age makes it impossible for him to have even met the real Madara?
Why does it make it impossible for him to have met the real Madara? But we have already been told between Itachi, himself, & Nagato he had all the tools to read the tablet at the secret shrine or Zetsu told him.

Quote:
4. How does he know about the Mangekyou Sharingan, much less the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan?
Same as above. Though why you would even ask about the Mangekyo when Itachi was part of the organization he ran is kind of funny.

Quote:
. How does he know about the Rinnegan?
Same as above or again laughable question due to Nagato being in Akatsuki

Quote:
When and where did he meet Nagato, and how could he have been the one pulling the strings in Akatsuki's shadow if the organization was founded when he wasn't even alive yet?
1. When did Nagato meet Hidan, Kakuzu, etc...
2. Because ether he was entrusted with it by Madara or Zetsu, or he took charge of it pretending to be Madara

Quote:
Where do his intangibility and space-time ninjutsu originate from?
His Sharingan obviously. In-fact his Space-time Ninjutsu is a plus for him being obito if you consider the powers obito's other Sharingan.

Quote:
Who was manipulating Yagura?
Tobi or Madara

Quote:
How did Obito prevent Itachi from finding out who he really was?
How did Tobi trick Itachi & just about everyone else that he was Madara? Because he is a clever SOB.

Quote:
Why would Obito bother massacring the Uchiha?
Why would Madara bother massacring the Uchiha? & don't tell me it was just for grudge. Tobi's reason for massacring the Uchiha could be as simple as him wanting there Sharingan.

Quote:
Why does he hate the Senju, whose Will of Fire he died for, and why was he so intent on destroying Konoha?
I already explained Tobi's motivation in the OP no need to repeat myself.

Quote:
Why would he concoct something like the Moon's Eye Plan?
Did he concoct it or is he merely following Madara's blue print? But yeah we were already told this & it's because he has given up on the world.

Quote:
How did Minato not recognize Obito's voice during the Kyuubi's attack, considering it happened only a year after his supposed "death?"
When is it stated to have only happened a year after? As for the voice, how did Kisame not recognize Tobi's voice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
One year after Obito died, Tobi attacked Konoha.
Where is this stated?

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Old 12-04-2011, 09:06 PM   #18
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Turrin, answer these questions:


4. How does he know about the Mangekyou Sharingan, much less the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan? He was an Uchiha, right? I'm sure there was some sort of b.s. lore behind it somewhere.

5. How does he know about the Rinnegan? same ^^

6. When and where did he meet Nagato, and how could he have been the one pulling the strings in Akatsuki's shadow if the organization was founded when he wasn't even alive yet? You assume he wasn't alive.

7. Where do his intangibility and space-time ninjutsu originate from? His eye of course.
8. Who was manipulating Yagura? The other dude, pain buddy Madara.

9. How did Obito prevent Itachi from finding out who he really was?
This would be answered with the REAL TRUTH behind the Uchiha massacre.

10. Why would Obito bother massacring the Uchiha? Because his ideals about the greater good. If you look at Obito's character, he's basically a jacked up Naruto. Naruto wants to end terror in the ninja world, Madara wants to end pain, but by a different method. I attribute this to his crushed right side. He saw how bad the Ninja world really is.

11. Why does he hate the Senju, whose Will of Fire he died for, and why was he so intent on destroying Konoha? He hates the shinobi world, not specifically the Senju.

12. Why would he concoct something like the Moon's Eye Plan? Again, to reform the ninja world..

13. How did Minato not recognize Obito's voice during the Kyuubi's attack, considering it happened only a year after his supposed "death?" That's a really silly question, seeing as shinobi can transform into person they want to with their henge.



Although, I still stick with my idea about Danzou being Madara.

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Old 12-04-2011, 09:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silenceofthelambs View Post
Turrin, answer these questions:

1. How and why did the Kyuubi recognize Obito on the night it attacked Konoha?
2. Where did Obito acquire Senju cells from?
3. How does he know so much about the Jubi, Rikudou Sennin, and Madara's personal life, considering his age makes it impossible for him to have even met the real Madara?
4. How does he know about the Mangekyou Sharingan, much less the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan?
5. How does he know about the Rinnegan?
6. When and where did he meet Nagato, and how could he have been the one pulling the strings in Akatsuki's shadow if the organization was founded when he wasn't even alive yet?
7. Where do his intangibility and space-time ninjutsu originate from?
8. Who was manipulating Yagura?
9. How did Obito prevent Itachi from finding out who he really was?
10. Why would Obito bother massacring the Uchiha?
11. Why does he hate the Senju, whose Will of Fire he died for, and why was he so intent on destroying Konoha?
12. Why would he concoct something like the Moon's Eye Plan?
13. How did Minato not recognize Obito's voice during the Kyuubi's attack, considering it happened only a year after his supposed "death?"
I'm not Turrin but

1. Kushina was the Kyubi jinchuuriki. Obito must have met Kushina, being Minato's student. This actually serves as more evidence for Tobi = Obito

2. Madara gave him Hashirama's cells. He's the one that most likely saved him. You might as well ask where did Tobi get Hashiramas cells.

3. Madara taught him most likely. Who says Madara died before Kakashi Gaiden? Madara probably met Obito after he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. I mean, if he knew Tobi at that time, why not just give him the Rinnegan? Also we see from Nagato that the Rinnegan can reverse aging when absorbing chakra.

4. Madara taught him

5. The ramen guy.... jk Madara

6. It was originally Madara who was pulling the strings

7. We see that Kakashi also has an incredibly similar space time jutsu, so that's a silly question

8. Obito was manipulating Yagura

9. Tobi is a master of disguise, he tricked the whole world into thinking he was Madara

10. Idk, Kishi could explain, all i can give is a made up fanfic

11. Same as 10. Maybe it had to do with Rin dying though

12. To bring peace

13. Good point... Most likely Minato didn't even think of the possibility that it could be Obito, or Obito changed his voice, idk.


Last edited by TobiSamoht; 12-04-2011 at 09:33 PM. Reason: more readable
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:32 PM   #20
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'Darth Vader Syndrome' as an explanation for a complete character reversal would be a headbanger for me, personally. I don't think these arguments, which while fairly self explanatory are expounded upon at great and somewhat tedious length (which strikes me as a form of self persuasion), are particularly compelling.

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