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Old 09-30-2011, 10:27 PM   #1
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Default Itachi vs Madara

Distance: 20 Meters
Location: Uchiha Massacre site (for dramatic effect)
SoM: Bloodlusted
Knowledge: Read Scenarios
Restrictions: None

Special:
Itachi's eyes are in perfect condition but will degrade as the fight prolongs.

This is Pre-Rinnegan Madara, he can use Izanagi once

Scenario 1: Manga knowledge
Scenario 2: Full knowledge

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Old 10-01-2011, 04:14 AM   #2
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Whoa... Er.. Simply because I'm an Itachi fan im going to go with Itachi. He has shown some epic feats in the current chapters and I dont think Pre-rinnengan madara can handle itachi who is actually blood-lusted. We have never seen Itachi actually wanting to kill the enemy, nor have we seen him ticked off enough to be considered blood-lusted. I think If itachi really wanted to, showing his feats, could take out madara with major difficulty.

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:35 AM   #3
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Madara is featless. Unless you mean Tobi? In which case, im going with Itachi, Totsuka sword, in theory, would seal him.

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:42 AM   #4
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Madara is a very bad match up for Itachi. As we have seen already he has a way to deal with Amaterasu,and more likely his intangibility ability can bypass Susano defense. This leaves only Tsu. Madara is a very proficient genjutsu user and has hashirama cells+uchiha blood so more likely that he can break it. Madara with some diff. His defensive-oriented skill set is just very good vs someone who lacks stamina (like Itachi).

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:43 AM   #5
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Scenario 1: Manga knowledge. madara.Madara has a move that can stop itachi amaterasu.madara also has the sharingon that can see though itachi genjutsu. Madara would kill itachi .

Scenario 2: Full knowledge. itachi should be able to take this unless he get warp away.

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Old 10-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #6
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Itachi. Madara doesn't even have feats.

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Old 10-01-2011, 09:48 AM   #7
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Itachi due madaras lack of feats. What he showed against Konan is not nearly enough.

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Old 10-01-2011, 10:36 AM   #8
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What people above said. And didn't Madara already said that with knowledge Itachi would have killed him or something like that. Ofc sometimes what characters say in manga are false. Example Jiraiya beating Six Paths of Pain with knowledge... Personally I don't see that happening or Jiraiya taking out Kisame and Itachi alone.

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Old 10-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #9
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I don't know about no knowledge, but I'm pretty sure Itachi could solo madara with an exploding bushin with full knowledge.

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Old 10-01-2011, 12:43 PM   #10
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I dont see how Itachi hits Madara.

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Old 10-01-2011, 02:06 PM   #11
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Is this healthy Itachi (the one who fought Naruto and B...minus Edo Tensei immortality) or sick Itachi (the one who fought Hebi Sasuke)? I think that makes a big difference.

Sick Itachi doesn't have a prayer of beating Madara except in the full knowledge scenario; even then, it's doubtful, because he doesn't have any stamina to waste while Madara's Izanagi has a set time limit that won't expire prematurely. Madara can presumably offer both eyes for Izanagi if he needs to, which- on top of his five minutes of intangibility -should be too much for sick Itachi. In the manga knowledge scenario, I don't think Itachi knew Madara had Izanagi (which would be what Madara meant when he described a certain "secret" saving him from Amaterasu), so there's a chance he could get shanked from behind when he thinks he's killed Madara, just like Konan.

Healthy Itachi, I think, stands an excellent chance of beating Madara in the full knowledge scenario. He doesn't seem to have any significant stamina issues- some people attribute this to Edo Tensei, but that's never been stated to be the case. His movements and reactions also seem to be improved a bit over what he demonstrated when fighting Sasuke- which Zetsu did make note of as being an underperformance. So with full knowledge, I would almost certainly expect Itachi to win. With manga knowledge, it's closer to 50/50, since it's hard to say how successful a respawn ambush with Izanagi would be; I think it would largely depend on Kishimoto's whim, so it seems appropriate to just call it 50/50.

I think one thing is certain, though: Whether sick or healthy, Itachi should have very little trouble landing a counterattack when Madara solidifies, just as Fu and Torune did. Amaterasu would probably be the easiest way to do this, although I think he could manage it with Taijutsu and weapons with some effort. I also think he's familiar with Madara's Jikukan Ninjutsu and its limitations, just like Konan was; it's reasonable, since he's been working with Madara for a long time.

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Old 10-01-2011, 02:20 PM   #12
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itachi solos in both scenarios
a little intangibility and izanagi is not enough to stop the uchiha genius

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Old 10-01-2011, 02:35 PM   #13
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When you say that he can use Izanagi once, what do you mean? Do you mean he can respawn only once, or that he can trigger it once with one eye - which lasts five minutes? That would make or break Itachi's chances.

Assuming the former, Itachi's exploding close is a good Madara counter, because Tobi has to materialize to touch-warp Itachi. Then, boom. The real Itachi could also hit him with Amaterasu or the Totsuka if Tobi is touch-warping a clone.

Assuming the latter, Itachi would need to rely on Susano'o for five minutes much like Sasuke did to Danzō. However, Madara has five minutes of unabashed invincibility to get to Itachi and can possibly phase through even legendary items.

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Old 10-01-2011, 02:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
Is this healthy Itachi (the one who fought Naruto and B...minus Edo Tensei immortality) or sick Itachi (the one who fought Hebi Sasuke)? I think that makes a big difference.
LoL,

It is pretty much a given that they have no stamina issues. Edo's can go forever. Until their sealed. Itachi still has shity stamina issues. Just because that is his drawback to fucking bad every one has their drawbacks.

I believe Madara could win. If you give him the chains that he fought Minato w/.

He is very proficient at using his st jutsu. He fought 2 root ninjas, 1 of which is pure taijutsu.

I think it was stated that altoghter Madara can be invincible for 10 mins. If he uses he 5min Phase, and 5mins for izanagi, of which he don't need the phase ability while in so he should be able to go for another 5mins Phase.

At all the time be phasing in doing whatever of an offense he can put up until Itachi starts to tire.

Amaterasu-Don't work
Tsukuyomi- Highly doubt that he will catch Madara in it, Madara isn't stupid and has shown to be highly intelligent in the sharingan techniques and even about Susanoo.

Madara can't do it straight up, w/o no ninja tools he has no suitable offense to be shown. So far all he has shown are defensive techs. Give him a sword or a his chains.

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Old 10-01-2011, 02:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchLiebe View Post
LoL,

It is pretty much a given that they have no stamina issues. Edo's can go forever. Until their sealed. Itachi still has shity stamina issues. Just because that is his drawback to fucking bad every one has their drawbacks.
There is no confirmation at this point that the zombies have infinite stamina because of Edo Tensei. The only thing we know is that they can't be killed and will keep regenerating.

Quote:
He is very proficient at using his st jutsu. He fought 2 root ninjas, 1 of which is pure taijutsu.
That was pretty much their only fight, so we have no idea how good they were. Madara did kinda toy with them like children, and it was only because he got touched when he warped Torune that he got injured.

Quote:
I think it was stated that altoghter Madara can be invincible for 10 mins. If he uses he 5min Phase, and 5mins for izanagi, of which he don't need the phase ability while in so he should be able to go for another 5mins Phase.

At all the time be phasing in doing whatever of an offense he can put up until Itachi starts to tire.

Amaterasu-Don't work
Tsukuyomi- Highly doubt that he will catch Madara in it, Madara isn't stupid and has shown to be highly intelligent in the sharingan techniques and even about Susanoo.

Madara can't do it straight up, w/o no ninja tools he has no suitable offense to be shown. So far all he has shown are defensive techs. Give him a sword or a his chains.
Swords and chains can be blocked with Susano'o, or simply dodged.

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Old 10-01-2011, 02:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketh1995 View Post
Whoa... Er.. Simply because I'm an Itachi fan im going to go with Itachi. He has shown some epic feats in the current chapters and I dont think Pre-rinnengan madara can handle itachi who is actually blood-lusted. We have never seen Itachi actually wanting to kill the enemy, nor have we seen him ticked off enough to be considered blood-lusted. I think If itachi really wanted to, showing his feats, could take out madara with major difficulty.
You don't think he would have killed Madara had he been capable of doing it?

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Old 10-01-2011, 03:30 PM   #17
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This match is very interesting. Pre-Rinnegan Madara's feats never were too
many but the ones he had are good counters to Itachi's powerful arsenal.

Lets analyze this fight on both scenarios.

Itachi would have to administer very well his chakra on using Amaterasu,
Tsukuyomi or Susanoo, given his chakra reserves are less than Madara i
would say, we saw how Madara summoned and was controlling Kyuubi.
I think the 3 big ones would be some options but not necessarily.


Another option is that he probably could hit him using a combination
of distractions, but i agree it would require great effort, recall how Hiraishin was
needed to achieve this, although there are examples of fights like the one of Fu and
Torune, so it could be possible.


While it is true that Madara can be intangible, it is also fair to ask ourselves
the question of how Madara is going to physically hit Itachi, in my point of
view he does not have the speed to do it (correct me if i am wrong). So the
only way is to warping away him to another dimension.

If Itachi has Kotoamatsukami then it's over for Madara i would say. No
restrictions right ?, why wouldn't it work. Then probably Madara finishes
eating Ramen in Konoha.

Genjutsu: I do not think is working on a MS user (assuming he has MS),
because we have never seen his MS eye.

Amaterasu: everyone is suggesting that Izanagi is the answer for this.

Susanoo: great deal for Itachi, could be used to seal Madara, but again,
we have the problem of intangibility, and that Madara could
warp away Susanoo. Unless Totsuka is very fast and surprises
Madara.


In conclusion, i would say Madara has greater probability to win this, but i would not
give a definitive opinion.

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
You don't think he would have killed Madara had he been capable of doing it?
Being able to best Tobi in battle and being able to prevent him from escaping and kill him are two different accomplishments. In this scenario, Tobi isn't phasing away for reinforcements. In the manga, for Itachi, that option was always available to him.

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:30 PM   #19
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Fair enough.But I still think Madara is too much for Itachi to handle.

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Old 10-01-2011, 06:53 PM   #20
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Is that based on perceived levels? If Itachi beats Kabuto, then would your opinion of his "level" change, since Kabuto's trump card stopped Madara from attempting to kill him?

Or do you mean ability-wise? Because I would argue that any highly intelligent clone user with very fast offensive jutsu is in a splendid position for Madara's highlighted stylistic weaknesses.

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