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Old 05-17-2011, 04:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by IpHr0z3nI View Post
The power of plot. EMS will grant anything Sasuke needs atm. Just like the sharingan.
This man speaks the truth.

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Old 05-17-2011, 07:35 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by icemaster143 View Post
It's just a perfected MS with a new jutsu attached.

Kishi isn't going to create an entirely new doujutsu when he hasn't even finished showing Sasuke's MS.

It's important to note that no one actually calls it EMS like we do in the manga. It is still refered to in the databooks and manga as MS. So any "transformation" isn't as large or grand as some would assume.

Sasuke's EMS will be powerful but kishi has already created a Rinnegan greater than all rule that seems to be important to the plot.
we've seen the rinnegan in action multiple times, but still haven't even gotten a teaser on the EMS. Seeing that, it should come of no surprise that the EMS will be super hax, yes even more hax than the rinnegan.

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Old 05-17-2011, 08:59 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by T-Bag View Post
we've seen the rinnegan in action multiple times, but still haven't even gotten a teaser on the EMS. Seeing that, it should come of no surprise that the EMS will be super hax, yes even more hax than the rinnegan.
Note ems was first introduced in 2008. Nothing much said back then aside from it being a "distinctly new ocular jutsu". We go on to 2010, when Sasuke get his new magic eyes. While the Rinnegan is being flashed around, Kishimoto still doesn't write anything about ems. Jan, '08-May '11 is 41 months. Sasuke himself has been out since getting his new eyes [March 25th 2010 - now = 14 months > 1 year]]. So it's like, yeah. How can you not expect it to blow away everything else when Kishimoto is deliberately keeping it out of the picture? Ems is even "rarer" now because it has 2 users and the Rinnegan has 3 users [Thanks Madara!].

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:28 PM   #44
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I've been doing extensive research on this issue. What exactly does the EMS do beside restore vision?

Let's take a look at various scanlations.

Scanlation One.

But that was only half the story. The transplant also gave birth to a completely new eye technique...

Obviously this "exchange" could only be done between clansmen. And simply gaining another's eyes didn't equate to gaining this power.

Scanlation Two.

And not only that; a further change occurred. Those eyes gave rise to a new special technique.

However, such an exchange could only ever take place between members of the same clan. Besides which, it was not as if just anyone could obtain new power in this way.

Scanlation Three.

But that was only half the story. The transplant also gave birth to a completely new dojutsu...

Obviously, this "exchange" could only be done between clansmen. And simply gaining another's eyes didn't equate to gaining this power.

I also took a look at Databook. Here is the entry for the Mangekyo Sharingan.

The Databook remarks that the powers are a "vast and unexplored territory", and that "these heavenly eyes have further special powers that have yet to be clarified....".

Reading those translations, my biggest question was whether Itachi meant that the EMS gives:

1) Access to a 4th jutsu in addition to the three MS jutsu
2) Access to a new eye evolution (with undetermined powers)

If it's option 2, then my guess is that Sasuke will still have his 3 Tomoe Base Sharingan (Stage 1). When he wants to use any of his 3 MS jutsu, his eyes will take on the EMS form (Stage 2). When he wants to use his new eye evolution (with it's unique powers), then his eyes will take on a radically different appearance (Stage 3). He'd be able to access any of the 3 stages at any time. Some people believe this new eye evolution is indeed the Rinnegan. Others think it's the eyes of the Elder brother.

Spoiler:



However, I'm much more inclined to believe that Kishimoto is indeed referring to option 1. Which means Sasuke's eyes will have 2 stages, and Stage 2 will have the new EMS seal. Stage 1 will be 3 Tomoe Sharingan. When his eyes are in EMS form, he will have the 3 MS jutsu + 1 EMS jutsu. He will no longer have his regular MS seal in his eyes.

This was also what Madara's eyes were portrayed as in both Itachi's story and Madara's flashback. Also, according to Itachi, the EMS was powerful enough to bring every clan the Uchiha encountered under Madara's control. Madara then became praised as the strongest shinobi in the world.

The regular MS only gave Madara and Izuna control over the Uchiha.

So clearly while the 3 MS Techniques gave Madara power just over the Uchiha, the "EMS 4th Technique" was powerful enough to give Madara control over any clan that fought the Uchiha, and it gave Madara the reputation of being the "strongest shinobi in the world."

I've searched high and low to find out what this "4th Technique" was. Finally, Zetsu seems to have some experience with the MS.

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:31 PM   #45
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its said that it gave birth to a totally new doujutsu



now we are just not sure if its a new doujutsu as amaterasu, susanoo, etc

or a new doujutsu as sharingan, rinnegan, etc


so yes, expect something strong and new, even if its only one technique

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:49 PM   #46
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However, I'm much more inclined to believe that Kishimoto is indeed referring to option 1. Which means Sasuke's eyes will have 2 stages, and Stage 2 will have the new EMS seal. Stage 1 will be 3 Tomoe Sharingan. When his eyes are in EMS form, he will have the 3 MS jutsu + 1 EMS jutsu. He will no longer have his regular MS seal in his eyes.
I wouldn't be sure about the 3-tomoe sharingan remaining when Madara was never again depicted with it after his transplant. He sure wasn't seen with it when conversing with the Uchiha. Unless Sasuke will have the eyes activated immediately, Zetsu suggests they will be his one and only dojutsu in saying the world will be different. I believe that's what Kishimoto implied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanadius View Post
This was also what Madara's eyes were portrayed as in both Itachi's story and Madara's flashback. Also, according to Itachi, the EMS was powerful enough to bring every clan the Uchiha encountered under Madara's control. Madara then became praised as the strongest shinobi in the world.
Itachi was saying the senju clan was hailed as the strongest shinobi clan, not that Madara was the strongest shinobi; official translation.
Spoiler:

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:50 PM   #47
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sasuke ems will give him a full susanoo with legs, the ablity to remove himself from existence and the ability to fuse amaterasu with susanoo to create the burning god of combat

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:56 PM   #48
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Anyone ready to see the sages elder sons eyes make a return?(the spiral ones)

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Old 05-17-2011, 11:07 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Blinx View Post
Note ems was first introduced in 2008. Nothing much said back then aside from it being a "distinctly new ocular jutsu". We go on to 2010, when Sasuke get his new magic eyes. While the Rinnegan is being flashed around, Kishimoto still doesn't write anything about ems. Jan, '08-May '11 is 41 months. Sasuke himself has been out since getting his new eyes [March 25th 2010 - now = 14 months > 1 year]]. So it's like, yeah. How can you not expect it to blow away everything else when Kishimoto is deliberately keeping it out of the picture? Ems is even "rarer" now because it has 2 users and the Rinnegan has 3 users [Thanks Madara!].
Yup. Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinx View Post
[font="gill sans mt"]
Itachi was saying the senju clan was hailed as the strongest shinobi clan, not that Madara was the strongest shinobi; official translation.
Spoiler:
How's it possible the unofficial translation was so far off from the official one? They say 2 completely different things. Which one can you really trust? The unofficial translators often do a pretty good job, but it's hard to believe they messed this one up so badly.

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Old 05-17-2011, 11:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Blinx View Post
I wouldn't be sure about the 3-tomoe sharingan remaining when Madara was never again depicted with it after his transplant. He sure wasn't seen with it when conversing with the Uchiha. Unless Sasuke will have the eyes activated immediately, Zetsu suggests they will be his one and only dojutsu in saying the world will be different. I believe that's what Kishimoto implied.
Well, he wouldn't need to activate his Sharingan when conversing with the Uchiha. I see no evidence to suggest that he would lose access to his 3 Tomoe Sharingan. He can definitely deactivate the EMS to normal eyes.

Quote:
Itachi was saying the senju clan was hailed as the strongest shinobi clan, not that Madara was the strongest shinobi; official translation.
Spoiler:
The scanlation I provided made that claim. I don't have the official translations. But even the official trans you provided does tell us that Madara was able to conquer any clan he encountered with his EMS.

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Old 05-17-2011, 11:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Blinx View Post
Sasuke himself has been out since getting his new eyes [March 25th 2010 - now = 14 months > 1 year]].
Chapter 515.

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Old 05-17-2011, 11:57 PM   #52
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+5 Uchiha rage.

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Old 05-18-2011, 12:17 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Shaidar Haran View Post
When I say Sasuke has been "out", I'm not including few and far appearances like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bag View Post
How's it possible the unofficial translation was so far off from the official one? They say 2 completely different things. Which one can you really trust? The unofficial translators often do a pretty good job, but it's hard to believe they messed this one up so badly.
You go with the official one, since that's the one people are actually getting paid to do; Viz is partially owned by Shuiesha. I wouldn't put it past the company to have quality checks and second opinions on translations to make sure they're correct, and definitely doubt Viz would screw up royally on a translation. There were people who actually got it right.

http://mangahelpers.com/t/hisshouburaiken/releases/1100
http://mangahelpers.com/t/torachan/releases/2698

I generally don't trust anything he does anymore since he also has a tendency to add text and give readers the wrong impressions.


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Originally Posted by Vanadius View Post
The scanlation I provided made that claim. I don't have the official translations. But even the official trans you provided does tell us that Madara was able to conquer any clan he encountered with his EMS.
Well, the scanlation is not official i.e it'll always be wrong. I wasn't challenging the notion that he conquered clans, only that he was hailed as the strongest shinobi.

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Old 05-18-2011, 12:29 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Blinx View Post
Note ems was first introduced in 2008. Nothing much said back then aside from it being a "distinctly new ocular jutsu". We go on to 2010, when Sasuke get his new magic eyes. While the Rinnegan is being flashed around, Kishimoto still doesn't write anything about ems. Jan, '08-May '11 is 41 months. Sasuke himself has been out since getting his new eyes [March 25th 2010 - now = 14 months > 1 year]]. So it's like, yeah. How can you not expect it to blow away everything else when Kishimoto is deliberately keeping it out of the picture? Ems is even "rarer" now because it has 2 users and the Rinnegan has 3 users [Thanks Madara!].
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bag View Post
we've seen the rinnegan in action multiple times, but still haven't even gotten a teaser on the EMS. Seeing that, it should come of no surprise that the EMS will be super hax, yes even more hax than the rinnegan.
Sasuke has been out of the story because he has nothing to do with the current events in the manga not because Kishi is trying to build hype for him. Sasuke has no connection to this war arc other than knowing the participants.

As for kishi holding Sasukes EMS back I'll say your right. He is holding it back. He is holding it back in reserve for his fight with Naruto. Hell he didn't even finish showing the plain MS sasuke had. He teased it then moved on. All the buildup your talking about is from your own desire to see what it is.

I mean hell In story the ems powers have never really been touched upon other than the one time Itachi mention it.

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Old 05-18-2011, 01:22 AM   #55
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Sasuke has been out of the story because he has nothing to do with the current events in the manga not because Kishi is trying to build hype for him. Sasuke has no connection to this war arc other than knowing the participants.
How did you fathom that? Surely he has just as much connection to the current arc as Kabuto, Raikage, etc. etc.

His enemies are fighting on the opposing side. He want's to kill all of Konoha, might as well start early.

No seriously, it is rather silly to suggest he has no reason to be in the war, when his purpose is to kill all of Konoha. Isn't there Konoha shinobi fighting in the war?



Quote:
As for kishi holding Sasukes EMS back I'll say your right. He is holding it back. He is holding it back in reserve for his fight with Naruto. Hell he didn't even finish showing the plain MS sasuke had. He teased it then moved on. All the buildup your talking about is from your own desire to see what it is.
Actually the EMS has quite the build up, through Madara. The Kage's action and statements towards Madara, serves as hype for the mysterious Dojutsu; As they were maid in reference to him in his Prime. The entire shinobi world is united to fight Madara, that speaks volume.

Also further hype comes in it's position of revelation. The Rinnegan, supposedly the strongest Dojutsu, was introduced and shown fully (at least enough to display it's powers) before the EMS.

Also Kishi certainly didn't move on.

"Do you know this young man with such power in his eyes?"

"I can feel Itachi's power flowing into me"

"With this knew Dojutsu he was able take control over any clan he encountered"

"When you open your eyes you will be seeing a whole new world"

Kishi has hyped it directly on several occasions, the only one who wants to move on is you.

Quote:
I mean hell In story the ems powers have never really been touched upon other than the one time Itachi mention it.
Which is actually a good thing........ As it gives it no limitation.

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Old 05-18-2011, 10:50 AM   #56
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Ok let's say Sasuke and Naruto battle in issue 549 Naruto has Sasuke in the ropes he's really beating the tar out of him when Sasuke uses his new doujutsu:

S:"-You know I'd kill you with my new doujutsu but I won't waste it on you,it's too obscure you probably never even heard of it"
N:"-What a new eye-thing how many of those have you got,and what's this one gonna do against me the Chosen One the perfect Jinchurichi?"

Sasuke uses the technique and the chapter end on a cliffhanger.

Next week everybody buys Jump to read Sasuke ch 550 when in the arc's villain and former secondary protagonist Naruto is defeated.Next issue in Sasuke 551 the heroes are congratulated by the 5th Hokage Orochimaru and the romance subplot is tied up leading man Sasuke finally winning the heart of the leading heroine Hinata.
In other news Kubo is the recipient of the first ever Nobel prize for manga,also on some forum a single Sasuke hater declares the EMS's space-time ninjutsu i.e create alternative universes and wonders why it wasn't used in the final battle.

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Old 05-18-2011, 12:57 PM   #57
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Ok let's say Sasuke and Naruto battle in issue 549 Naruto has Sasuke in the ropes he's really beating the tar out of him when Sasuke uses his new doujutsu:

S:"-You know I'd kill you with my new doujutsu but I won't waste it on you,it's too obscure you probably never even heard of it"
N:"-What a new eye-thing how many of those have you got,and what's this one gonna do against me the Chosen One the perfect Jinchurichi?"

Sasuke uses the technique and the chapter end on a cliffhanger.

Next week everybody buys Jump to read Sasuke ch 550 when in the arc's villain and former secondary protagonist Naruto is defeated.Next issue in Sasuke 551 the heroes are congratulated by the 5th Hokage Orochimaru and the romance subplot is tied up leading man Sasuke finally winning the heart of the leading heroine Hinata.
In other news Kubo is the recipient of the first ever Nobel prize for manga,also on some forum a single Sasuke hater declares the EMS's space-time ninjutsu i.e create alternative universes and wonders why it wasn't used in the final battle.
Why would Sasuke want Hinata over Naruto? Her eyes are ugly and creepy. Meanwhile Naruto can become a harem of gorgeous women trained by Master Jiraiya.

Seems like Sasuke is losing out on that deal...

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Old 05-19-2011, 08:05 AM   #58
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Ya know the more i think about it Sasuke with EMS would be Extremely Haxx. Truthfully I'd say it would shit all over RM. Hell the only way Naruto would even hope to stand a chance is KN6-8 or even full Kyuubi or (RSM). I may dislike Sasuke but even I have to admit he'd do ALOT of damage with EMS.

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Old 05-20-2011, 04:35 AM   #59
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Okey.. plz help me, what is sasukes MS genjutsu right now? From all i can tell its nothing special at all, nothing more than an everyday genjutsu.. he can make people see stuff that isnt there.. it neither traps you like kakashi vs itachi, nor does it break you mentaly like itachi´s genjutsu, nor like the frog song you stunned you? So what does it do more than trick your eyes for a very short time'?

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Old 05-20-2011, 04:55 AM   #60
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Okey.. plz help me, what is sasukes MS genjutsu right now? From all i can tell its nothing special at all, nothing more than an everyday genjutsu..
It isn't everyday. All MS genjutsu are unresistable by their nature. That means without outside help, the mangekyou genjutsu cannot be broken by singular efforts. If Hachibi was not inside of bee, he would have been paralyzed until sasuke or someone else broke the genjutsu.

See? MS genjutsu is REDICULOUSLY powerful. It is basically permanent hypnosis. If someone suggested you to hop on one foot for the rest of your life, the genjutsu would remain until your chakra was disrupted by someone.

On another note, if you were a giant beast, someone could tell you to obey for as long as they wished, and you would be unable to refuse.


Quote:
he can make people see stuff that isnt there.. it neither traps you like kakashi vs itachi, nor does it break you mentaly like itachi´s genjutsu, nor like the frog song you stunned you? So what does it do more than trick your eyes for a very short time'?
Well, one of them made a ninja unable to tell lies, another paralyzed bee, and the last one was a MAGEN, a demonic illusion. Those mess with people's perception of the five senses.

The thing about Tsukuyomi is it changes temporal comprehension, which is the understanding of time passing. Itachi torturing kakashi could have been done with any magen, since they control the basic five senses, but torturing for what seems like days in one second is what makes tsukuyomi powerful.

It is basically like mixing a magen with a time/space jutsu to make it seem infinitely slow while actually completing itself at light speed.
I think that is actually what it is.

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