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Old 01-14-2011, 09:10 PM   #1
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Default Might Guy (Seven gates) Vs Kisame (Samehada fusion form)

I'm sure that we had a few threads about Guy vs Kisame with Samehada after their final battle at Turtle Island, but I'm not sure if that one was brought up, and after a recent discussion in this thread I think we hit a speculation point.

Supposing that Samehada didn't defect Kisame for Bee and he did try to escape from the island with it, he's intercepted by Guy and after the exchange between Morning Peacock vs 1000 feeding sharks, Guy enters in seven gates mode, but at the same time Kisame fuses with Samehada and enter in his Kisamehada form and they continue their battle from here.

Might Guy (Seven Gates) Vs Kisame (Kisamehada form)
Battlefield: Turtle Island (same place and moment where the original fight happened)
Distance, Mindset and Knowledge: The same ones of the original battle.
Restrictions: Kisame did not absorb Bee's chakra because Samehada didn't defected him and took his chakra.

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Old 01-14-2011, 09:22 PM   #2
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I believe this is a good match-up.

Now, Kisame will have to create his Water Dome, in order to finish this Match pretty quickly. As we all know, Kisame's Water Dome takes a prep time of only 3 Panels to create. The 1st Panel shows the water flooding an entire area of masses of terrain, which is approximately the size of 5 Mountains. The 2nd Panel shows the water increasing in depth, height, density and overall size. The last Panel shows the water condensing and forming into a Dome, or more specifically, the Water Dome.

Now, as we all know, while Gai is in his 7th Gate, he has the ability of repelling the water with just his green chakras. However, it's debatable whether Gai can actually repel the water, contained within the Water Dome. More so, it's debatable whether Gai can actually evaporate the water, contained within the Water Dome, with his Morning Peacock. If he attempts to do so, Gai will put himself under extreme danger. As we look into the Manga, the Water Dome is approximately the size of 1 Mountain by height. If he evaporates the water, he will plummet to his death. It's best for him to evaporate the water, contained within the Water Dome from the bottom of the Dome itself.

It's doubtful that Gai will maintain his speed while contained within the water. However, I haven't seen Samehada enfused Kisame in much action, so it's doubtful that Kisame can severly harm Gai, especially whom is in his 7 Gates.

Overall? It depends on whether the Water Dome can overall be weakened by Gai, enabling him to use his Taijutsu skills to overwhelm Kisame.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:02 PM   #3
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Waterdome isn't saving Kisame since Gai's gates deflects the water around him, leaving Gai able to follow Kisame and hit him.

Srsly Gai didn't beat Kisame because Kisame was without Samehada, Gai beat Kisame because he's a bad matchup for him.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:07 PM   #4
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As I've stated before, it's debatable. The reason why I say this is because we don't know the limit of how much water Gai can repel with his green chakras.

Meh.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMan View Post
Waterdome isn't saving Kisame since Gai's gates deflects the water around him, leaving Gai able to follow Kisame and hit him.

Srsly Gai didn't beat Kisame because Kisame was without Samehada, Gai beat Kisame because he's a bad matchup for him.
It was bad match up, but it was a bad match up that Kisame didn't had a weapon, healing and his transformation, even if Samehada couldn't absorb chakra from Guy it could still heal Kisame from damage from afternoon tiger, but that's not the point.

This Kisamehada we are talking about, if he gets hit by afternoon tiger then he can use his own chakra to heal himself, if Guy is using his chakra to repeal the water, then it's very dangerous for him to go close combat with Kisamehada because he can drain chakra on physical contact, this is a far more dangerous situation than Guy faced originally.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:28 PM   #6
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Even so, Gai stated that it wasn't green chakra, but rather sweat. More so, iirc, Gai's chakra reserves are so small, he can't perform Ninjutsu.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:37 PM   #7
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Kisame fused with Samehada can sense chakra. This very fact decides the match.

With his sword, Kisame knows that Gai's attack doesn't use chakra, so he won't assume it gets absorbed. So he won't get in the attack's path.

And thus Gai's single way to hurt Kisame is taken away.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhunt View Post
It was bad match up, but it was a bad match up that Kisame didn't had a weapon, healing and his transformation, even if Samehada couldn't absorb chakra from Guy it could still heal Kisame from damage from afternoon tiger, but that's not the point.

This Kisamehada we are talking about, if he gets hit by afternoon tiger then he can use his own chakra to heal himself, if Guy is using his chakra to repeal the water, then it's very dangerous for him to go close combat with Kisamehada because he can drain chakra on physical contact, this is a far more dangerous situation than Guy faced originally.
He can heal. But the thing is that Gai won't be standing up there. He'd keep hiting Kisame in gates, Kisame won't survive because of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of a big deal View Post
Kisame fused with Samehada can sense chakra. This very fact decides the match.

With his sword, Kisame knows that Gai's attack doesn't use chakra, so he won't assume it gets absorbed. So he won't get in the attack's path.

And thus Gai's single way to hurt Kisame is taken away.
That's not his only single way. Gated gai is faster, Water dome won't do a thing to him because like i said, Gai's aura with gates repels water. Gai doesn't need Hirudora to finish Kisame, he can do it with morning peackock evading all Kisame's attacks with ease.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMan View Post
That's not his only single way. Gated gai is faster, Water dome won't do a thing to him because like i said, Gai's aura with gates repels water. Gai doesn't need Hirudora to finish Kisame, he can do it with morning peackock evading all Kisame's attacks with ease.
Didn't even mention waterdome, dunno where you got that from.

Kisame doesn't fall for the same trick because he can sense chakra, and thus he knows it's not getting absorbed. He can go underground. Gai would have absolutely no idea where to attack Kisame, so opening the gates and being super fast goes to waste since he doesn't know what to do with all that speed. And he can only remain in 7 gates mode for a few seconds anyway.

After that it's an easy kill for Kisame.

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Didn't even mention waterdome, dunno where you got that from.
I've mentioned it.
Quote:
Kisame doesn't fall for the same trick because he can sense chakra, and thus he knows it's not getting absorbed.
.......
Quote:
He can go underground. Gai would have absolutely no idea where to attack Kisame, so opening the gates and being super fast goes to waste since he doesn't know what to do with all that speed.
Show me a 100% Manga Scan of Kisame going underground. Kisame can go underwater. Yes. It's doubtful that Kisame can go underground, before Gai manages to land a hit on him. So, I want you to provide me a Manga Scan of Kisame managing to go underground, in order to land a surprise attack on Gai. Please and thank you sir.
Quote:
And he can only remain in 7 gates mode for a few seconds anyway.
He can maintain the 7 Gates for longer than a few seconds.
Quote:
After that it's an easy kill for Kisame.
No, it isn't.

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Old 01-14-2011, 11:13 PM   #11
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Kisame underground? He has doton affinity, and swam through the ground to sneak up on team Gai. Going underground is/should be a casual feat for Kisame.

Kisame managed to pull off a huge jutsu before Gai could hit him. So going underground when he's even faster than normal should be absolutely no problem.

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Old 01-14-2011, 11:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Kisame underground? He has doton affinity, and swam through the ground to sneak up on team Gai. Going underground is/should be a casual feat for Kisame.
I assume this is a Manga Reference. Thanks for the proof.
Quote:
Kisame managed to pull off a huge jutsu before Gai could hit him. So going underground when he's even faster than normal should be absolutely no problem.
I'm wondering whether or not Gai can sense the vibrations from the ground.

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Old 01-15-2011, 06:14 PM   #13
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:47 PM   #14
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Even with Samehada, I don't think Kisame can win. Gai has already countered most of Kisame's moves save Water Dome, which is useless considering Gai has been shown to repel water with ease, even in the 6th Gate.

Gai really is his worst nightmare, bar none.

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Old 01-15-2011, 06:50 PM   #15
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Water dome isnt useless. At least Gai isnt fast in it as it is on a solid ground+Kisame is a lot faster in the water than on land. I think this jutsu+samehada fusion and regeneration could have helped Kisame a lot. Still it would be a close match without any doubts.

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Old 01-15-2011, 06:53 PM   #16
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It stays the same for me kisame still will lose, i have no reason to believe Gai cant use more then one (After Noon Tiger) so after two maybe 3 kisame will be done for.

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Old 01-15-2011, 06:58 PM   #17
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3 is pushing it. It's doubtful that Gai will add that much strain to his body. If he does so, all of his Muscle Tendons will be torn to shreads.

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Old 01-15-2011, 06:59 PM   #18
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Gai said himself its just a punch maybe he can do it in kick version too lol. Also i see no reason why he can't use Morning Peacock in seven gates mode, it should just be more powerful so for me gai wins.

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:05 PM   #19
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Brick, I still contend that the battle would have gone similarly. Guy was going to go 7 gates no matter what, and Kisame was going to either fuse or not fuse with Samehada. It really doesn't matter to me. It becomes debatable whether or not Kisame would fuse and try to water dome and move in close or not, though. Though, it would be useless and just exposing him to point-blank 7 Gated Guy attacks.

And if he did use the same attack with Samehada, Guy would still be using Afternoon Tiger. We know that AT was enough to finish normal Kisame, so what do you really think Samehada brings to the table? Do you think Samehada has an equal chakra capacity as Kisame? Samehada certainly isn't stronger than Kisame, so at best, he'd be doubling Kisame's chakra reserve. Meaning, he could tank two.

And like I said before in that Telegrams thread, I don't think Guy was done. I think he could have easily made at least a second AT. The only reason he didn't was because one had already finished the job.

So, no matter what, I think Guy was going to win that fight. And it really doesn't matter whether Kisame was nerfed or not.

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of a big deal View Post
Didn't even mention waterdome, dunno where you got that from.
Was making that clear.

Quote:
Kisame doesn't fall for the same trick because he can sense chakra, and thus he knows it's not getting absorbed. He can go underground. Gai would have absolutely no idea where to attack Kisame, so opening the gates and being super fast goes to waste since he doesn't know what to do with all that speed. And he can only remain in 7 gates mode for a few seconds anyway.
If he can't dodge, he will. Hirudora is not the only jutsu Gai has, and Gai doesn't have to use it in front of Kisame either.

Show me a scan of Kisame going underground. It's very OOC of him however, i don't see him escaping 7 gated Gai, and thus, if he can't absorb his chakra or react to him, he's losing.

And not for a few seconds, he used the gates and started to pursue Kisame, he also started talking with Kisame before they fought, used Morning peacok and Hirudora and still after some time he was talking with Kisame.

That's a long time.

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After that it's an easy kill for Kisame.
It's not an easy kill for Kisame, Gai's still his worst matchup.

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