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Go Back   Naruto Forums > Konoha Sanitation > Konoha Recycling Heap > NF Archives > Konoha Library Archives 2
 
 
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:09 AM   #1
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Default The Juubi eyes, the Nature of Genjutsu, and the Portioning of Its Powers.

I know, epic title right? I'm going to make it pretty short and sweet though.

*I'm using OneManga simply because the image doesn't fuck up-not for translation purposes*
Spoiler:

Should I bother stating the obvious about those eyes? They look like a fusion of the Rin'negan ripples and the Sharingan tomoes, no? Well, that can't be right though? Didn't Rikudou possess the Rin'negan before becoming the Juubi host? No, not necessarily-and here's why.

The commonly held notion is that the Juubi was placed into a genjutsu to stop his raging and give Rikudou time to perform the sealing jutsu. I'm not going to speculate on the speed of the jutsu, but I don't think it took excessively long-given that Minato performed quite a bit in his last hours and with a raging Kyuubi to contend with(sure, he had a S-T jutsu that didn't hurt).

What I am going to contend is that Rikudou never placed the Juubi under a genjutsu, and those distinct eyes are in-fact the Juubi eyes. How? It's simple-Kishi shows an entity under genjutsu(usually with a sharingan) only as a plot device, to show the readers it's under genjutsu. I don't think it's stated anywhere that it actually manifests the eyes of the caster. Regardless, if that were the case-why is it not completely Rin'negan eyes?

It's not completely Rin'negan eyes because it was never under a genjutsu in the first place. Those are the eyes that the Juubi possessed and those are the powers that Rikudou received. Now, here's where things get dicey.....
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I think Rikudou seperated the Light and Dark(yin/yang thing) side of the Juubi-only using the Light side. I think the Juubi, as an all encompassing entity, possessed the powers to create and destroy-the Rin'negan/Sharingan hybrid. Not to say that the neither can do the opposite-just that they were more suited for those purposes.

This is also why he gave the younger son the title and not the elder-who believed in strength, because he feared he would tap into the darker side of his eye power-the sharingan. I believe his elder son did in fact tap into that power, and that is why his descendants became the Uchiha clan-a clan mired in conflict and bloodshed.

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Old 05-12-2010, 10:14 AM   #2
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Id think the Juubis eyes is a combination of the rinnegan, sharingan AND byakugan...
since
Byakugan = The general eye
Sharingan = Tomoes (There are 1 for each tail, if you count the middle one as one aswell)
Rinnegan = Lines

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Old 05-12-2010, 11:39 AM   #3
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Nice theory but how does Nagato who had a Rinnegan fit into this?

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Old 05-12-2010, 11:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaskedMenace View Post
Nice theory but how does Nagato who had a Rinnegan fit into this?
Nagato had the Rinnegan?!

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Old 05-12-2010, 11:53 AM   #5
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Just to clarify: "The Rikudou used an Illusion Camp," believe Rikudou possessed the Rinnegan and the Sharingan, the combination of which, was reflected in the Juubi's lone eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkMan View Post
What I am going to contend is that Rikudou never placed the Juubi under a genjutsu, and those distinct eyes are in-fact the Juubi eyes. How? It's simple-Kishi shows an entity under genjutsu(usually with a sharingan) only as a plot device, to show the readers it's under genjutsu. I don't think it's stated anywhere that it actually manifests the eyes of the caster. Regardless, if that were the case-why is it not completely Rin'negan eyes?
Suigetsu was able to see the Sharingan coated over top of Manda's eye: Chapter 363.

That's where the theory comes from. In no way am I contesting either notion though - not enough information for me, at the moment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MaskedMenace View Post
Nice theory but how does Nagato who had a Rinnegan fit into this?
Rikudou's reincarnation, the resulting love child of a Senju and Uchiha, or something else entirely - who knows?

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Old 05-12-2010, 11:55 AM   #6
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I think it's quite obvious that he only had Rinnegan afterwards because of the image that showed his eyes after he captured the Juubi :
Spoiler:


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Old 05-12-2010, 12:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klue View Post
Rikudou's reincarnation, the resulting love child of a Senju and Uchiha, or something else entirely - who knows?
HawkMan seems to think that the Rinnegan is a power that came from being the Juubi's jinchuuriki.

Nagato seem to have a pure rinnegan something even the elder brother lacked. Which makes the whole Rinnegan being the power of the Juubi's jinchuuriki.

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Old 05-12-2010, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaskedMenace View Post
HawkMan seems to think that the Rinnegan is a power that came from being the Juubi's jinchuuriki.

Nagato seem to have a pure rinnegan something even the elder brother lacked. Which makes the whole Rinnegan being the power of the Juubi's jinchuuriki.
I guess what I'm intimating is that both Doujutsus come from the Juubi itself, and in an even more speculative nature- they are but two sides of the Juubi's eye power. Nagato is an enigma, it's hard to explain how he obtained the Rin'negan outside of divination(which just doesn't sit well with me since due to the polytheistic nature of the gods depicted in Naruto). The closest thing that resembles an entity that reigns supreme is the Juubi, so in some shape or form his acquisition is due to that.

The elder son had an eye power that spiraled into a tomoe, which leads me to believe that he could draw upon both aspects. Given his world veiw though, that power was the answer to the problems ailing their world, he might have been more inclined to draw upon the darker side- the Sharingan.

Of course, it's possible that Rikudou possessed both Doujutsus and only passed on the Sharingan or a variation of that to his son. We have even less data to support this claim though, since we've never seen him display such a doujutsu. What we do have is a Juubi with a combination of both the Rin'negan and Sharingan, and a Rikudou with only the Rin'negan present. Furthermore, the elder son who possessed his eye power has descendants who focused on the Sharingan aspect of that eye power.

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Old 05-12-2010, 12:56 PM   #9
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I agree on some points, but I think both Rikudou and Nagato were simply blessed with Rinnegan. It's been said that Nagato is the reincarnation of Rikudou. If this is true then his eyes should closely match the unaltered eyes of Rikudou. Thus that would mean Rikudou had the Rinnegan before becoming a host for the Juubi.

I always supported the idea that the Sharingan is a power that came from being the Juubi's host. This power was passed down through one of his sons, but in a dormant state. I also think a jutsu like the Byakugan might have come before the Sharingan (in a person) as Kakashi suggests early in the manga, which makes sense if the Sharingan was dormant.

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Old 05-12-2010, 01:25 PM   #10
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Rikoudo Sennin was born with Rin'negan. And he was the only one to reach the full extent of Rin'negan power.

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Old 05-12-2010, 01:39 PM   #11
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I always thought that the Jūbi had the Sharingan and that the ripples were a result of Rikudō Sennin's battle of wills with it. This makes sense too though.

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Old 05-12-2010, 01:47 PM   #12
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As I have stated before in the thread, what about the byakugan?

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Old 05-12-2010, 01:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oishiitebayo View Post
As I have stated before in the thread, what about the byakugan?
It's so irrelevant it's not worth discussion, to be frank.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some interesting posts, I'll comment when I have more time.

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Old 05-12-2010, 02:26 PM   #14
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Nice theory but I think Nagato invalidates it. If Nagato is the reincarnation of RS, he should have his powers without the jyuubi addition. Based on this, it is reasonable to conclude that the rikudou was born with the rinnegan. The jyuubi on the other hand, used the sharingan to cast illusions and that is why nobody could tame it. RS conquered it and got the powers of both the sharingan and the rinnegan.

Upon having children, the elder son was born with the power of sharinnegan, a combination of both powers. This would explain why Nagato could master all the ninjutsu in the world but not does not have the same extent of control over genjutsu since this was the product of the jyuubi eyes and not the rinnegan originally. Then, the elder son consumed by hatred, relied more on the power of the sharingan and passed that unto his descendants. Over time, they lost the rinnegan but kept the sharingan.

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Old 05-12-2010, 02:31 PM   #15
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there's no evidence that Rikudou had the Rinnegan when he was born. the fact that Kishi only showed him with Rinnegan in the picture AFTER he captured the Juubi makes me think that it was Juubi power

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Old 05-12-2010, 03:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selim View Post
I always thought that the Jūbi had the Sharingan and that the ripples were a result of Rikudō Sennin's battle of wills with it. This makes sense too though.
This certainly crossed my mind, but Madara's goals put that to rest. He aims to cast a genjutsu that he can only achieve by becoming the Juubi host. Also, the image is the exact image of the eye the Juubi showcased earlier. That can't be a coincidence.
Spoiler:

Obviously, those eyes are that of the Juubi. The Juubi looks to have possessed both doujutsus, and it was after becoming its host that Rikudou obtained the Rin'negan-and became a living god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senjuclan View Post
Based on this, it is reasonable to conclude that the rikudou was born with the rinnegan. The jyuubi on the other hand, used the sharingan to cast illusions and that is why nobody could tame it. RS conquered it and got the powers of both the sharingan and the rinnegan.
Except for the fact that Madara aims to become the Juubi host-and the illusion he seeks to cast has the same eyes as that of the Juubi when Rikudou encountered it. If it was indeed a test of will between Rikudou and the Juubi, why is the image for Mugen Tsukyomi depicted in the same manner? Isn't it reasonable to say that is indeed the eye of the Juubi, and that eye power is indeed the powers granted for becoming its host?

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Old 05-12-2010, 03:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkMan View Post
Except for the fact that Madara aims to become the Juubi host-and the illusion he seeks to cast has the same eyes as that of the Juubi when Rikudou encountered it. If it was indeed a test of will between Rikudou and the Juubi, why is the image for Mugen Tsukyomi depicted in the same manner? Isn't it reasonable to say that is indeed the eye of the Juubi, and that eye power is indeed the powers granted for becoming its host?
I don't remember seeing an image of mugen tsukuyomi. Can you attach it here?

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Old 05-12-2010, 03:42 PM   #18
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Mugen Tsukuyomi.

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Old 05-12-2010, 04:38 PM   #19
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Image not found

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Old 05-12-2010, 04:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senjuclan View Post
Image not found
Damn, MangaToshokan is breaking my balls.

Here it is anyway:



This picture apparently depicts the form of Madara's eyes after becoming the Juubi's host. This is the original sharingan Madara spoke of during his introduction.

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